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Kimblair13

Studens pulling ripcord IN airplane.

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OK...so 400+ tandems meow and I had a bastard pull the rc on me IN the airplane. It actually made me really mad.>:( Anyways...ended up fixing it in the plane and jumping.
Sometimes I question whether or not to even give them the option to pull...what do you others do? If they didn't know it was there I'm sure it would be less likely to happen.
Has it happened to you and if so, did you ride the plane down or fix it and go.
Strong gear here.


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In over 900 tandems I've never had an issue with it. Then again, I typically jump a tandem system where, if packed correctly, it doesn't matter if you yank on the drogue release handles. It doesn't do anything. ;)

As for the Vector2 systems I occasionally (rarely) jump, I've never had a problem and I let the student deploy quite often. Then again, I have the student's drogue release handle positioned in a similar spot to the Sigma secondary release handle. Its in a good spot for training and its fairly out of the way in the plane.

YMMV
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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Only 804 Tandems as an "I" here (45 as a passenger on other rigs too).

I go back and forth between the Sigma and Vector II Tandem a bit. I too position the handles so they are nearly identical from rig to rig.

I haven't had a handle pulled in the plane yet (knocking on wood).

I have had a canopy ride from 9000' [:/]. The student thought the "hang loose" was "pull".

They weren't even supposed to pull, they just eves dropped on the AFF class going on next to us, and bada bing, they got to fly the canopy all the way to final. Ya should have seen the look on the vidiots face, it was almost as good as the look on my face when I saw the cable go by my face, there was no trouble reading my lips when we hit the "trap door".

Ah good times, good times,B|.
An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

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Then again, I typically jump a tandem system where, if packed correctly, it doesn't matter if you yank on the drogue release handles. It doesn't do anything.



OK, that's a little confusing...what kind of gear is it? And why would you have a drogue release handle that if you pulled on it, it wouldn't release the drogue?
I mean, of course it wouldn't release the drogue right then, but when you did pitch the drogue it would pull out the canopy....:S or not? I just jump Strong, so that's all I know.


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Dave jumps the Sigma.

If packed (read closed) correctly (and it is not easy to screw it up, the pins that is) the Drogue has a "safety pin" that keeps the closing pin in place until the drogue is set. Only then can the closing pin actually be pulled and the opening sequence started.

It is realy quite enginious.
An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

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I'm just wondering who voted "you suck if this happened to you" :S
are you so sure that you are bullet-proof and that your students always do only the things they are supposed to do? sound like being complacent_IMHO
The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle

dudeist skydiver # 666

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Hi Kim,

I think it's important to train (or atleast offer) all of your students on how to pull thier ripcords, and allow them to do so if they want to.

I have a solution to the problem about the ripcord pull in the plane. Do this, and I can pretty much assure you it will never happen to you again :)
You (during ground training): "Would you like to pull the ripcord on our jump?"
Your Student: "YES!"
You: "Raise your right hand, and repeat after me. I (name)"
Student: "I (name)"
You: "promise"
Student: "promise"
You:"NOT to pull the ripcord"
Student: "Not to pull the ripcord"
You: "while still in the airplane."
Student: "while still in the airplane."

I have done that on over 1000 1st jump tandems and have never had a ripcord pulled on me in the airplane.

The other thing I would suggest, as your going through the dive on the plane, if you give them a practice pull opportunity in the plane, just make sure you have a grip of the ripcord before you give them a practice pull signal, so even if they do grab the ripcord, they wont be able to pull it out.

Blue skies, Tom

--
My other ride is a RESERVE.

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I have seen several students attempt to pull ripcord handles in the airplane, but only one succeeded.
The problem arises when you ask students to assist you in tightening side straps. (Hint: I quit asking for help years ago.)
A few years back, I watched another instructor ask his student to help tighten their right side strap. The student groped blindly and pulled on the orange handle, releasing the drogue. Fortunately, the photographer on the load was also an experienced tandem packer, so was able to repack it in-air, in a cramped Cessna.
My solution to that was to start by asking students to help tighten the left side strap. That familiarizes them with the feel of the strap end. Then they know what they should grab on the right side strap.
However, over the years I have gradually developed enough arm strength that I rarely need assistance in tightening side straps.

In conclusion, the long term solution is for TIs to grow more arm muscle.

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That ripcord configuration is obsolete, because hardly any schools put AFF ripcords on the front anymore.

Stunts Adventures figured that out in the late 1990s when they attached all their Eclipse Tandem secondary ripcords (drogue releases) to their instructors' right hips.
Relative Workshop followed their lead a few years later when they standardized handles on their Sigma.

Since all the better schools teach AFF/PFF students to pull a handle on the bottom of the container, it makes sense to locate tandem ripcords in the same BOC location, in this case, strapped to the instructor's leg pad.
To this end, I have sewn Slimline/Fastex/Nexus buckles to the right leg pad of all our Strong Tandem rigs.
During pre-flight checks, we also tuck any excess housing inboard to reduce the chance or snagging in the airplane or entangling with the drogue.

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I know this is a big thing in the States for the tandem master to give a handle to the student so they can pull at the right height. But I live and work in Oz and have done over 2500+ tandem and would never give a first time student a handle as most of them have a hard time just thinking about arching and looking at the camrea.So why put the extra peressure on them to have to pull at the right height?

For most of them it will be the first and last time they go for a skydive so why not let them enjoy the experience and the veiw, not be thinking Oh god I have to pull this handle.


:)
Regrets are just unfulfilled dreams

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Ok, dumb question: What is the difference with a tandem passenger pulling the ripcord in the plane and a fun jumper pulling his pilot in the plane? If the door is open isn't it just as dangerous?



No.

Pulling a tandem ripcord will just release the rings for the drogue.
_______________


"It seemed like a good idea at the time"

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I agree with your logic.
Giving tandem "students" ripcords, etc. was one of the legal loop holes that tandem manufacturers had to use to get the first waiver from the FAA.
And training tandem students to pull ripcords on their first jump may be a valuable lesson for those who plan on continuing with AFF.
However, tandem does not always attract "the best and the brightest."
Fully 1/3 of tandem students admit that they are not bright enough to make a solo skydive, so there is no point to trying to teach them anything more than an arch.
The other reason we do not explain ripcords to tandem students is that a high opening will offend the airliners that like to fly over Pitt Meadows (BC, Canada) at 6,000 feet.

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...The other reason we do not explain ripcords to tandem students is that a high opening will offend the airliners that like to fly over Pitt Meadows (BC, Canada) at 6,000 feet.



:D:D:D
I imagine that would really tick them off...
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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We had a case where the tandem student pulled the camera flyers pilot chute as the camera flyer was climbing out. The camera flyer was quickly tackled into the corner of the otter as the door was closed.

The student couldn't explain why he did it... just that it didn't look right.

_Am
__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

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