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bluskidave

Chest Strap/Female

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Just curious how my fellow tandem instructors go about loosening a too tight chest strap on a female student. I do what Kevlar taught me in that when after opening and the student is complaining that the chest strap is causing discomfort, I ask them first if they would like me to loosen the strap,and if a yes is given I tell them that I will present my hand in front of of them and for they,the student, to place my hand on the buckle to release the pressure.If some inadvetent touch occurs I say "whoops I'm sorry".So far no complaints. Also is there an optimum placement of the chest strap on a larger"breast" student, during hookup. Blue Skies,Dave

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All of my comments are based on use of a Sigma Tandem and Sigma Student Harness.

First - chest strap placement on women. It either goes above or below, depending on the way the woman is built. Her breasts are either large, medium or small, and they ride high, midway, or low. Most of the time I go below the breasts, toward the bottom third of the rib cage. On women who have very large breasts that ride a little lower on their body, I put the chest strap right on the top side of her breasts. It works very well for me.

Next - handling the loosening under canopy. I tell the women on the ground that upon opening the chest strap will tighten up (toward their chest) and move up (toward their neck). I also tell them that I am going to reach around and loosen it up a little bit for comfort. When that time comes, I am careful to look over her shoulder to see where my hands are going and tell her what I am doing. Loosen it a little for comfort, but not so far that the harness pops way off her shoulders toward the elbows - that's too much (just crank it back down a little.

If the woman is well endowed, and I can't see the chest strap - and where my hands are going - I don't grope. I tell them I can't see and ask them to put my hands on the chest strap. 100% of the time they understand completely why I am doing that.

I go out of my way to be a gentleman to female students, and to show them respect. So far I have received 100% positive feedback.
Arrive Safely

John

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Good Info, where I get caught is when you do back to backs and you haven't harnessed the student yourself.I find that the same instructor's that hook up the student for me usually have the chest impingement problem.Plus you don't have the time to talk about the chest strap problem.I have always positioned the chest strap according to where I thought it would end up after opening,i.e.breast size, height etc. Blue Skies, Dave

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I never get in an airplane with a student who I haven't at least given a gear check. I fine tune any adjustments that need to be made at that time.

Also, both my student and I are ready to hookup and exit in case of an emergency before we board the aircraft. I don't leave anything loose to tighten later - on my harness or theirs.
Arrive Safely

John

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i have them stand on my feet to get slack in the chest strap. if i have problems seeing the chest strap i just run my hand up the main lift web until i find it. i haven't had any problems with this technique.
blue stuff,
p.j.


pulling is cool. keep it in the skin.
options: it does a body good.

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i have them stand on my feet to get slack in the chest strap. if i have problems seeing the chest strap i just run my hand up the main lift web until i find it. i haven't had any problems with this technique.
blue stuff,
p.j.



this is actually very easy, and can also alleviate other comfort issues also. like leg straps pinching.

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off topic but i instist that all of my gear up people use the following line

i am going to tighten up adgust the haness, now if you are uncomfortable with anything i am doing tell me and we will find a diffrent way of doing it.

this is somthing i insist on. it makes the customer happy prevents silly law suits from silly people and and the way a gentleman treats people.

you can re fraze it (slap me and ill find sombody else to harness you) or (give me a punch and we can find another way of doing it)

you just have to talk to them and tell them what you are doing and you will have no problems.

;););)
life is a journey not to arrive at the grave in a pristine condition but to skid in sideways kicking and screaming, shouting "fuck me what a ride!.

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What I tell them is...I will tighten the chest strap, after the parachute opens, I will have you stand on my feet, I will tell you as I loosen up you chest strap. Then I show them as I am gearing them up exactly how I touch the buckle and flick it to loosen it up. Then I also say that I do this every jump with every student and with my own gear. They have all showed satisfaction with that. It also shows them that the chest strap has been routed properly...

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I ask them first if they would like me to loosen the strap,and if a yes is given I tell them that I will present my hand in front of of them and for they,the student, to place my hand on the buckle to release the pressure.If some inadvetent touch occurs I say "whoops I'm sorry".



Just wait 'till you'r a dirty old man like me...
:)
Seriously, I feel it has a lot more to do with your 'general attitude' than with 'technique'. I find that it is good to direct this issue during the briefing which is generally the first time you 'invade their social space / comfort zone' (they sit on your lap, have their body tightened against yours, you 'mold' their body on a creeper etcetera...) Talk about it briefly there by saying something like "I'll be closer to you than you would normally allow a stranger, but it is inevitable in what we are about to do...so I'm gonna be all over you like a bad rash, touching and checking - it just isn't personal"
Especially when you want tight laterals and a smooth exit you need their coöperation, which you will get by just directing the issue, IMHO...

Try to give your best impersonation of a budhist monk who is on an incomprehensible quest for skydive Zen, well beyond trivial things like sexual desires... :) *)

Then, on opening Grab their firm young BOOBIES! :):)
(But don't be so stupid as the American DZO / TI who got sued several years ago and had to pay a huge compensation while all he had to do was show up during the court-case and say in a believable fashion that he thought he felt the harness slip on opening...)

*) If the monk routine doesn't work, you might pretend to be homosexual - make a compliment about their hairstyle & call 'em "dear"...hehehe...
**) If RhondaLea reads this I'll be spanked, I guess...


"Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci
A thousand words...

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Just an idiotic question, what happens if/when some passenger does invent non-existent "touching" under canopy (when there's no video anymore), or if/when the TM does it for real? "Your word versus mine"?

A good example is in the women only forum_male instructors_.What got me was jlmiracle's post#93 that inappropriate touching went on with tandem and Aff students more than what one would realize.When one thinks about it we are really at the mercy of our students. Blue Skies, Dave

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Just an idiotic question, what happens if/when some passenger does invent non-existent "touching" under canopy (when there's no video anymore), or if/when the TM does it for real? "Your word versus mine"?

A good example is in the women only forum_male instructors_.What got me was jlmiracle's post#93 that inappropriate touching went on with tandem and Aff students more than what one would realize.When one thinks about it we are really at the mercy of our students. Blue Skies, Dave



Maybe a solution would be to have a female TM to do 'unisex' tandems, then :-)
Just giving out an idea, who am I to give advice...

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A good example is in the women only forum_male instructors_.What got me was jlmiracle's post#93 that inappropriate touching went on with tandem and Aff students more than what one would realize.



Did read it and to get some perspective tried to read the thread from the beginning.

(Now look what you've done, getting me so tired reading that I had to skip _oral sex and circumsized penis_ elswhere in the womens forum... :S:P:P)

Back on the 'your word versus mine' topic:

I would imagine that showing up in a court and stating in a believable fashion that nothing happened is in order 'when push comes to shove'.

IMHO that becomes a lot easier if indeed nothing happened... :)
To tell the truth, I would think that once you end up there usually something DID happen like a TI actually believing that he is indeed "God's greatest gift to womankind" and confusing the exhilarated atmosphere with "her practically begging for it"... :$:S

Let's not forget that the TI has the upper hand with waivers signed and the general impracticality of the situation. You don't have unrestricted movement under canopy, undressing would be a bitch and within five minutes you are going to land in front of parents / friends / fiancee 'with camera's' - you have to be suffering from extreme horniness & stupidity to ignore all that...

Then again, the female species is not above cunning tricks as well and now that I 'got the perspective' I would like to say that these mixed complaints ("they bumped me off loads because of tandems AND didn't debrief AND inappropriate touching") strike me as implausible...

I did read (in the other thread) that in your dental practice you had to have precautions, like always someone else present. Come to think of it, most of the tandem briefings get on video also... might come in handy in the future, but I must say I'm not looking forward to such a future...:S

What I again would want to emphasize is that as a TI you can do a lot of seemingly inappropriate touching and will never get into trouble. Just don't do any inappropriate touching (= making a pass) and trust your students female intuition to know the difference.

After all, that's what they are famous for, aren't they? :)

"Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci
A thousand words...

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On the flip side I have had female and male students reach back and give my thighs a firm squeeze under canopy with several provacitive suggestions.Did I go to the men's only forum and voice my complaints,no.One must keep their mind on business.My grandfather probably gave the best piece of advice that I've recieved."Don't put your peter on the payroll.Once you do, they own you". Blue Skies, Dave

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On the flip side I have had female and male students reach back and give my thighs a firm squeeze under canopy ...

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

A bunch of female students have grabbed my thighs - right after exit - but only one guy.
I think it has something to do with "drowning men grabbing straws."
From a TI's perspective, I don't care because it gets their arms out of my way.

Should I file sexual harrassment suits against the shes or the he?
I am so confused!!!

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I did read (in the other thread) that in your dental practice you had to have precautions, like always someone else present.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Dang!
The best dentist - that I ever had - used to lay her boob on my ear before she started poking around in my mouth.
However, the main reason I respected her was that she was the first (I was in my mid-twenties) dentist who ever froze my lower jaw before starting drilling. Many of her colleagues had tried - and failed - before. Apparently the nerves in my lower jaw are diffivult to find.

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Ok I know this says Instructors and I am a newbie with only 2 static line jumps and a female, but I am going for it anyway.. You hit the nail on the head! "General Attitude". My Instructor explained that sometimes there may be situations where certain times especially dealing with the chest strap and the leg straps, that he might have to adjust things to ensure my safety and if I was uncomfortable with it let him know. That was extremely appreciated from my point of view. Of course his whole general attitude during the schooling also helped with this as he made the atmosphere comfortable where I felt and knew that he was only doing what he had to, to ensure my safety.. So I know you guys are gunshy because of all the bull#$%^ sexual harrassment crap, but take it from a female, If you assure your female students aforehand "WHY" and make the learning atmosphere comfortable and personal you won't have a problem with females pissing and moaning BS about improper touching. I myself would rather you do what you have to do to make sure I come down safe. But then again this is my own personal opinion....
------------------------------------------------------------

Have always wanted to be a social butterfly but now I have the wind beneath my feet.

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I totally agree with Missy ! I'm also female and have only done one tandem so far (second coming up). My TM didn't even explain in detail what he was going to do, he just said "I'm going to check your gear". When he adjusted the chest strap, he only touched the strap, not my breasts. I was completely comfortable with it, because I knew he was doing what he had to do for my safety.

So to all TM's: it's your general attitude towards your student that's essential ... it's the same thing that makes the student trust you to jump out of a plane with you. And from what I read here, I think you're all doing a great job, so don't worry about it too much :)

"Ha ! I laugh at danger and drop ice cubes down the vest of fear ..." (Blackadder)

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I've loosened a lot of chest straps. You can lift up on the buckle without touching the person at all. I tell them I going to loosen the chest strap, then do it . . .politely. Had a passenger one time ( a "dancer") tell my wife how nice and polite I was under canopy. She told my wife "He could have touched my breasts all he wanted. I wouldn't have cared. But he was so polite." :D Guess that's why I'm still married after 21 years.

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Then, on opening Grab their firm young BOOBIES! :):)

I think you're joking on that one, but I've known a few TM's that thought that was cool. If that's the only way you can get it, that's sad. [:/]

I have 3 daughters, so I see things a little differently than some. Besides, being a gentleman can pay off. :)

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