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Beverly

Showing Horror Pictures

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I am a new SL instructor and we are standardising our course material.
There are some of our Inst who show students horrible pictures of plane crashes and ripped and smashed doors as an illustration of premature deployments and canopy hook ups etc.

Personally I hate flying, and those were horriffic to me as a person with over 1000 jumps.
What would the student feel.

Are shock tactics valid?

Do other people do this.

I would prefer the "deep breaths" rather that military way.

Any comments please!!

I think true friendship is under-rated

Twitter: @Dreamskygirlsa

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I agree with your approach. Students do need to understand what might go wrong, but a good instructor can instill safe conduct without a whole lot of fear. The pictures don't add much. Back in the day we all used those pictures, so old timers may still be stuck in the 60's, as may the instructors they have trained. With that said, instructors should be exposed to those photos as part of their advanced training, and should never let their guard down with regard to aircraft safety.

I'd also say that aircraft emergencies, although important, are not the most likely cause of a student fatality, and an instructor will be in the plane with them, at least for the first 20-25 jumps. I'd cover that material in the FJC/CGS, but focus my best efforts on parachute malfunctions and parachute landings.
.
Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

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I am just starting my progression into being an instructor with the "coach thing" now.... And I would NEVER use fear.... But what do I know????;)

I know a few people who advocate training skydiving in a high stress environment (citing armed forces training programs)... Their argument is that the first jump is high stress, so keeping the training high stress is important to keep it "realistic"... That you have to learn in stress so your reactions and recall memory are predictable and correct under stress. I might buy into that more than horror story induced fear, as I can't see fear as being anything productive... Fear is not something a FJC student needs any more of... That is novice opinion...

Maybe, if your DZ has issues with pinchecks and behavior inside the plane, perhaps that is good material for the "B" license checkoff dive... By then it might be digested in a correct way...

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I know a few people who advocate training skydiving in a high stress environment (citing armed forces training programs)... Their argument is that the first jump is high stress, so keeping the training high stress is important to keep it "realistic"... That you have to learn in stress so your reactions and recall memory are predictable and correct under stress.



There is some truth to the notion that skills learned under stress are easier to recall under stress. That suggests that a bit of stress in the suspended harness, for example, might be a good thing. However, making the entire program stressful seems very counter productive. A little stress can go a long way, but only if it is limited.
.
Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

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Fear is not something a FJC student needs any more of...



I'm on my way to doing a JM course and one of my requirements is to help out with student harness training. Having seen some of their faces i wholeheartedly agree that extra fear is not something they need.

Bev- I think what Tom said was 100% correct.

Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky

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There is some truth to the notion that skills learned under stress are easier to recall under stress. That suggests that a bit of stress in the suspended harness, for example, might be a good thing. However, making the entire program stressful seems very counter productive. A little stress can go a long way, but only if it is limited.
.



I like what you said.

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I agree with TomB. He said it very well in regards to students and instructors dealing with students doing their first jump or first few jumps.

At the same time, I realize that Bev's initial question was in regards to students, however, there are times when it is appropriate to show the "bounce book" to jumpers with a few or even more then a few jumps under their belts.

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This is a tough one to explain, but in an otherwise thoughtful FJC sometimes using a little "shock treatment" is okay. Especially in a small aircraft where an errant handle grab, pull, or snag could doom all aboard. We aren't talking about showing them dead people, but that one photo that shows the side of a Cessna ripped away does get the point across.

There are all kinds of skydiving instructors in the world and there are many ways to be effective. You'll develop as an Instructor over time. I've seen comedy FJCs that had the students rolling on the floor in tears of laughter. I've seen others, that were so serious, the students were reduced to quivering masses of terrified jelly. I've seen FJCs paired down to nothing but the essentials and all done before lunch. While others I've followed lasted through dark and the students come back the next morning anxious and overloaded.

To be a good Instructor you need several personalities. You need to know when to reach out, when to be stern, when to speed up when they get it, and when to slow down when they don't. You need to know when to just let a student be a student.

But, sometimes jarring the right student, just a bit, is a useful tool. Experience can only tell you which those are. Find the right mix of fun and serious, classroom stuff and outside stuff, keep the time reasonable and make sure in the end they know the important stuff from the fluff.

Sometimes a mistake new FJC Instructors make is thinking they are teaching someone to skydive. What you are really doing is teaching someone how to make student jumps. You teach them how to make a first student jump, a second, a third and so on.

Students, especially first jump students are like hard drives. They can only store so much new information. The more you put in there the longer it takes them to sort through it all should they need a high speed answer. Think about it. You must absolutely teach a person who's never parachuted what to do in case any one of those things you know can go wrong, does so. Maybe even more than one.

Write the essentials down on something and tick them off as you do them. I've JM'd level ones before that missed entire sections of the FJC like "Two out" or something similar because an experienced Instructor just thought they'd covered it.

While it's frustrating and thankless for the most part, being a skydiving Instructor is one of the coolest things you can do in this sport . . .

NickD :)BASE 194

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I know a few people who advocate training skydiving in a high stress environment (citing armed forces training programs)...

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

There are vast differences between military and civilian parachute training.
Remember that military training involves "screening" first and "education" second. Military training is all about screening to determine how students react to stress. They are trying to screen out students who "freeze" or cannot learn under stress. Elite military schools (i.e. SAS Selection) cheerfully fail 80% of students, because they only want the best of the best.
How many times have you arrived at a new duty station and the first thing they tell you is: "Forget everything you learned at the school."

On the other hand, civilian training is first and foremost about entertainment. If an instructor can accompany himself on the guitar while lecturing, so much the better.
Hee!
Hee!
"Screening" in a civilian classroom is a far more subtle process and we only expect to "lose" (send bowling) 1% of civilian students.

Fear may be the quickest way to "drive home" a lesson for some students, but fear is more likely to scare off the majority of civilian students in the long run. Ergo, I try to limit "fear" lectures to young men who are too arrogant to learn by more genteel methods.

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I think just describing the damage that can happen in a calm matter-of-fact way can be just as effective as pictures. Maybe even more so.

As an example, there is a bad habit out there of jumpers on the floor having the person behind them loop a seatbelt through their yoke for takeoff. A good response to this is a matter of fact "Yeah, but when I'm dead and the airplane is upside down and on fire, how are you going to get out?"

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Thanks for all the input. I suppose everyone has their own way.
Maybe being a girl I don't want to see gory pictures.

I will tailor make my lectures to what I feel comfortable including.

Thanks again
Bev

I think true friendship is under-rated

Twitter: @Dreamskygirlsa

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I'm a boy and I don't want to see gory pictures too.

And IMHO people don't learn very well in an environment with negative mood. When the teacher has shown such pictures then the next few hours are wasted - "Teacher my brain is filled up!"

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Tom, I think you're right and wrong in your aproach. Do the students need to see the "horror show" in the FJC? No.

Before they are "A" licensed and unleashed to the wolves? YES!
----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

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GREAT posting Beverly.

There have been a lot of good posts concerning this issue and I believe that a post from me on this topic is going to take me some to think about how I am going to express myself properly, so look for a post from me on this topic in a day or two, perhaps this afternoon unless my babble to follow in this post I feel is sufficient.

Diablo and Luke mentioned that Tom is both right and wrong and what I believe they are alluding to is that Tom has expressed a couple of contradictory issues that are not exactly in contradiction unless used in the same sentence I.E. the same block of training. Thank you Beverly for bringing up this topic because I believe it is a VERY important aspect of training.

Watching a skydiver lying in a divot as deep as their own body with blood seeping out of every orifice, piss and shit in their pants with the only sound from them is gurgling as they are using their last few moments amongst the living drowning on their own blood is an experience that will stay with me the rest of my life. Furthermore, after experiencing visitation to a former student in ICU, well. I nearly stopped instructing and the reason I did not is she convinced me that if I quit instructing that would be that would be a disservice to skydiving because of my ability to teach and communicate what is important where survival is concerned. The stark and undeniable truth is that when a human being jumps out of an airplane they are dead unless they do something to save their life I.E. gets a parachute over their head that offers enough drag to enable that person to survive the landing.

I have never shown a gory picture to a student because communication skills should be sufficient to paint the image in the students mind. Do I talk to students about death? Positievly, absolutely, of course and yes. One of the points I have read on this string that is worth repeating is learning when to place more emphasis on the potential bad things that can happen to those students that may have a lackadaisical attitude towards the importance of emergency procedures. Getting a parachute over your head is the very most important thing that must happen to best ensure the survival of the landing so the vast area of concentration of my training is EP’s, secondly is canopy piloting and landing your parachute in an area free of obstacles. What happens in freefall is important but if I do not have time to reach absolute perfection with the student concerning dive flow before the skydive it’s alright with me as long as the aforementioned (EP’s and landing) is completely understood by the student before we get on the airplane. If the student screws the dive flow up a little bit but gets a parachute overhead and lands safely then we can get on the next load – I have never seen a skydiver on the airplane with a femur sticking out, freefall improvement will happen with practice and more freefall practice is bred through safety.

Be the very best instructor you can be, thourghly train EP’s and landing and maybe you wont have to go to a students funeral…
Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

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I'm a boy and I don't want to see gory pictures too.

And IMHO people don't learn very well in an environment with negative mood. When the teacher has shown such pictures then the next few hours are wasted - "Teacher my brain is filled up!"



I'm a boy (At least my wife says so) and I do not like funerals!

Appart from that I do not think it is required to show these pics to students.
It's the JM who has to cut the line before the SL-student realises he is being towed behind the airplane. And it's the JM who is responsible to do a gearcheck

I can see a purpose for these pics in case you have a very serious talk about behaviour near and just out of the door with a 50-150jumps 'I-know-it-all' jump wonder. But even than after some serious warnings.

For instructors in training these photos serve a purpose.

Kind regards

Ton

Dutch/German SL-Instructor and TM

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habit,
Especially when you are jumping a sport rig

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Thanks for that.

I am going to be taking this back to our instructors body so I have some back up and don't just sound like a ninny.

There is nothing like telling some full of himself young student that is trying to show off because I am a girl that he WILL DIE if he does not do as I say and do the drills properly and stop making flippant comments in the class. They tend to start listening.

I really don't believe in the gory stuff for the first jump, but yes, education once they carry on is essential.

Thanks for the input.

Cheers
Bev

I think true friendship is under-rated

Twitter: @Dreamskygirlsa

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Are shock tactics valid? As Riggerob pointed out, yes, S.A.S. and other special ops units screen by shock. They don’t have time to waste on people who freeze in high stress situations. As everyone, military or otherwise knows, you don’t know how you’ll react to a stressful situation until you’re in it. But there is one minor litmus test you can conduct as a cursory survey:
Have you ever been accosted by a stranger in a violent situation and did you respond effectively? Have you ever been in a life threatening situation? Did you handle it effectively? Who has been at the wheel of a serious car accident and how did you perform? Who has had (a) fight(s) and how well did you focus on beating/defending your aggressor? The internal question is “Who here has a higher chance of failure?”
Essentially, those who’ve dealt with high stress situations tend to deal more effectively with them, then those who haven’t. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. If someone appears sheltered in that regard, they may need more training.
Are shock tactics valid? As Tom Buchanan mentioned “…a good instructor can instill safe conduct without a whole lot of fear.” Shock tactics poorly qualified (explained) can be a serious distraction from what you’re trying to do: train people to perform a skillset in a high stress environment. Take the instructor who has presented shocking material/information for example. Now they’ve introduced a HUGE distraction to their students—something akin to a dark vortex of death. Whatever you’re saying, their minds are now wandering off into “What if” scenarios.
Students need to learn by doing, to acquire the skill and mindset they need to perform. Since repetition is the mother of skill, the best approach is to simulate the condition as best as possible and have them continually perform the task they need to learn. Verbal descriptions of what they’ll experience (verbal visualizations) help simulate the environment while they go through their repetitions. Use of their comfort zone is very effective in the learning experience. Stay outside for directing, then move in close to tell them again when they waver or for them to correct their actions, then move back into normal space. Later, they’ll ruminate over what you’ve told them.
Science has found that very high stress or psychological trauma leaves an “imprint” on the brain. That’s why a skill learned during high stress retains permanence and why post traumatic stress can recur on a trigger. As stress levels rise the closer it gets to jumping, repeat the instructions. When students repeat their instruction they are more likely to “get” the instruction. They get the skill down by repetition and instruction, they get the gall to do it by the attitude you want them to take in doing it. Over time instructors develop many personalities or, more succinctly, “scripts” to use with different people to get them to achieve the desired result.
In the end it’s not fear you want, but action in spite of it. As someone once said, “Courage is not the lack of fear, but the willingness to act, in spite of it.”
Cheers!

You're always the starter in your own life!

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A few pics highlights to some how serious a sport skydiving can be and to stop complacency in those who have a few under their belt. Have a look at http://www.big-boys.com/articles/canopydeploy.html
and ask yourself why the words HOLY TRUCK didn't come out of your mouth ;)

-BSBD!! -Mark.

As far as pics go I can show ppl a few xrays lol, like VERY recent!! STAY SAFE!



"A Scar is just a Tattoo with a story!!!"

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Congratutlations on your SL rating. I've always enjoyed teaching an jumpmastering SL. Glad to see it's not a lost art. Enjoy your rating.

Most students are scared/cautious/worried enough as it is. You don't need to show them any bounce pics. That's just wrong and counter productive. Almost every skydiving student knows that bad tings can happen (I have seen one or two exceptions). I prefer to train people with the philosopy of "This is how you handle emergencies and keep ourself safe." You do have to explain, say, what happens if yoou open your chute in the door of the plane. You don'thave to dwell on it.

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I am a new SL instructor and we are standardising our course material.
There are some of our Inst who show students horrible pictures of plane crashes and ripped and smashed doors as an illustration of premature deployments and canopy hook ups etc.



I think it is a very effective way of making sure the student has the ideas.

I would not show bodies or broken bones, but a plane with a hole in the side.....VERY effective.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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Since repetition is the mother of skill, the best approach is to simulate the condition as best as possible and have them continually perform the task they need to learn. Verbal descriptions of what they’ll experience (verbal visualizations) help simulate the environment while they go through their repetitions. Use of their comfort zone is very effective in the learning experience. Stay outside for directing, then move in close to tell them again when they waver or for them to correct their actions, then move back into normal space. Later, they’ll ruminate over what you’ve told them.



As a former student I second that. (It's been 3 years ago but I still remember being a student quite well).

In our FJC class (6 or 7 men) the instructor verbally and physically simulated the situation. For example twisting and turning you around in the harness while telling you the altitude. Even the students who were just sitting in a circle started sweating. In between the simulations the instructor assured us he wasn't abusing us but trying to create stress, which we would surely have up in the sky on our own.

Another example: One student didn't look left when simulating his canopy controllability check. So the FJI took 2 firm steps and slammed into his left side, then twisting him madly and shouting "COLLISION, you flew into someone, your canopy is not working any more, going DOWN... 600meters... 500meters... 400meters... DO SOMETHING!".
The guy cutaway and pulled reserve, the "simulation" continued until he landed his reserve.
Instructor: "Well, nice, you survived. But the guy that you hit because you didn't look is now dead."
The mistake of "not looking before turning" has not been committed a second time during the course. :D

It may sound "macho" but I totally approve of this type of instruction. The FJI found the right mix, well, at least for me.
Now guess what, on my AFF Level 1 i had to cutaway and pull reserve. Tension knot on the right side, pumping toggles didn't help. I was more relaxed cutting away & pulling reserve than I was in the training harness.

As for the "horror pictures": There's absolutely no need for that. IMHO a good Instructor can do without.

Ich betrachte die Religion als Krankheit, als Quelle unnennbaren Elends für die menschliche Rasse.
(Bertrand Russell, engl. Philosoph, 1872-1970)

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As a former student I second that. (It's been 3 years ago but I still remember being a student quite well).

In our FJC class (6 or 7 men) the instructor verbally and physically simulated the situation. For example twisting and turning you around in the harness while telling you the altitude. Even the students who were just sitting in a circle started sweating. In between the simulations the instructor assured us he wasn't abusing us but trying to create stress, which we would surely have up in the sky on our own.

Another example: One student didn't look left when simulating his canopy controllability check. So the FJI took 2 firm steps and slammed into his left side, then twisting him madly and shouting "COLLISION, you flew into someone, your canopy is not working any more, going DOWN... 600meters... 500meters... 400meters... DO SOMETHING!".
The guy cutaway and pulled reserve, the "simulation" continued until he landed his reserve.
Instructor: "Well, nice, you survived. But the guy that you hit because you didn't look is now dead."
The mistake of "not looking before turning" has not been committed a second time during the course. :D

It may sound "macho" but I totally approve of this type of instruction. The FJI found the right mix, well, at least for me.
Now guess what, on my AFF Level 1 i had to cutaway and pull reserve. Tension knot on the right side, pumping toggles didn't help. I was more relaxed cutting away & pulling reserve than I was in the training harness.

As for the "horror pictures": There's absolutely no need for that. IMHO a good Instructor can do without.




THAT is how I would love to be taught. ;)
~He who looks outside his own heart dreams, he who looks inside his own heart awakens - Carl Jung~

My Space

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As a former student I second that. (It's been 3 years ago but I still remember being a student quite well).

In our FJC class (6 or 7 men) the instructor verbally and physically simulated the situation. For example twisting and turning you around in the harness while telling you the altitude. Even the students who were just sitting in a circle started sweating. In between the simulations the instructor assured us he wasn't abusing us but trying to create stress, which we would surely have up in the sky on our own.

Another example: One student didn't look left when simulating his canopy controllability check. So the FJI took 2 firm steps and slammed into his left side, then twisting him madly and shouting "COLLISION, you flew into someone, your canopy is not working any more, going DOWN... 600meters... 500meters... 400meters... DO SOMETHING!".
The guy cutaway and pulled reserve, the "simulation" continued until he landed his reserve.
Instructor: "Well, nice, you survived. But the guy that you hit because you didn't look is now dead."
The mistake of "not looking before turning" has not been committed a second time during the course. :D

It may sound "macho" but I totally approve of this type of instruction. The FJI found the right mix, well, at least for me.
Now guess what, on my AFF Level 1 i had to cutaway and pull reserve. Tension knot on the right side, pumping toggles didn't help. I was more relaxed cutting away & pulling reserve than I was in the training harness.

As for the "horror pictures": There's absolutely no need for that. IMHO a good Instructor can do without.




THAT is how I would love to be taught. ;)



Sounds like there is an instructor out there who cares and is doing his job - that is very refreshing to hear... I might sound cruel but I have actually brought a few individuals to tears when putting them under some ground stress while training - imaging what zooming towards potential death will do to them! Better to figure out if someone can handle a stressful situation before their life is at stake.

One of those I rattled pretty good hung in there and we drilled a lot - that person recently had their first cutaway and reserve ride and sent me a very nice letter thanking me for the type of training they received from me, they stayed calm, altitude aware and dealt with a nasty malfunction no problem...

Being a little tough and through works...
Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

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. A little stress can go a long way, but only if it is limited..



And used when appropriate..
If I am training a person who has a backrgound in high speed sports requiring staying calm in stressful situations is a different approach to someone who is not.
Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

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