Water Training during ground school

[huka551 0]

I feel like a elementary school child who just walked into the teacher's lounge at school... So I wanted to know why Live Water Training or even extensive discussion or perhaps practice on getting out of a rig, isn't part of AFF, but water training is required for a B lisence? I live on an island, so there is water everywhere, and we fly over the water plenty, and after theoretically 7 jumps (in some places) you can jump solo but have no experience to get out of your rig should you have to bail out over water and not be able to get to land. I hope that made sense. I mean as a student going through AFF the only discussion I ever recall about landing in water was PLF! Am I missing some reason why it shouldn't be part of AFF training or Ground school?

Muff Brother 3723

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Am I missing some reason why it shouldn't be part of AFF training or Ground school?

Most people don't jump off an island, and have to go looking for a swooping pond. If you believe there is a finite amount of material you can cover in AFF, it's a low priority for most.

Nothing says you have to wait to have an A to do the training (Skydance does water training and then packing once a month).

[Shark 0]

It is taught during the FJC; without water. During EP training I have them complete the procedures while in the training harness. By the time you earn your A license you will have done this several times, at least in our program.

[stratostar 5]

Because todays new style of teaching has become lazy and in a rush to get people out the door of the class room and on a plane.
In the old days it was part of the FJC.
When I lived in Hawaii it was taught in the FJC and my guess is that it is still today seeing that the dz is for the most part on the beach.
Any schools that are right next to an ocean and or large body of water that you could land in would be foolish not to teach it in a FJC, even tho most trade winds do blow on shore.
I have seen planty of people go in the drink, some were as far as 2.5 miles off shore and at sunset to boot.

How long can you tread water?
Do you jump with an LPU on at your dz?
Do they give all students an LPU?

I can understand that if a school is in the midwest with only corn fields around to land in that they might skip the water trainning and teach how to land in corn instead.

It would seem today that people are in the mind set that because we now use flying wings and not rounds that one could just fly to land, however as you said
you fly over the water all the time, you never know when shit will hit the fan and you have to bail out to save your ass and may not make it back to dry land.
So you better know how to swim, tread water and float and plan on doing so for a long time.
As the recent crash of the 206 will show you the only guy to make out, I think was in the water for 12 hrs.
To many of the new breed today take way to much of this stuff with an attitude that "it won't happen to me".
Kind of like a dzo who throws a boogie on an island and has very lowtimers go with to jump there.
Jumping around an ocean or large body of water close to the lz is nothing to take lightly, even if you got boats standing by.
I have stood on the beach for hours waiting to see if everyone would be found after a sunset load that landed in the drink in Hawaii some of those jumpers were found by luck in the dark by the coast guard and fishing boats that joined the search, the last few found had been in the water for 4 to 5 hrs. and in the dark at that.
So get the water trainning and plan for the worst case
and hope for the best everytime!

~

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[bch7773 0]

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I can understand that if a school is in the midwest with only corn fields around to land in that they might skip the water trainning and teach how to land in corn instead.

exactly what my DZ does. theres a river roughly a mile away, but you can stand up in it and not drown.

but theres cornfields about 10 feet away from the landing area, where students can get lost in for hours.

MB 3528, RB 1182

[stratostar 5]

Being a KSUSPC alumni myself, and having been around the kaw river a good part of my life, I can tell you that indeed you can in some places stand up in it, however try walking it sometime and see if you don't find some very deep holes that you can in fact drown in.
I know a good friend of my did just that.
Something to keep in mind.

~

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[huka551 0]

you never know when shit will hit the fan and you have to bail out to save your ass and may not make it back to dry land.

That's my exact point! I look around me at the people on the plane and there are at least 2 other newbies besides myself (ones with 15 jumps or 20 jumps) and I think back to my FJC and something in the equation just doesn't add up. If were flying over water and have to bail out, I know that they only got basic coverage on water landings, because I myself have procrastinated about getting my B lisence mostly because its a pain in the ass to seek someone out who has the time to go over it all with me in detail, will they know what to do? I brought it up to my dz AFF Inst. and he thinks its valid to do live training in AFF.

Muff Brother 3723

[Shark 0]

I'd also like to see more up jumpers review EPs in a hanging harness. I was amazed by some incorrect procedures by "experienced" skydivers, during Safety Day last March. Some people get too complacent.

When was your last time in a training/hanging harness? (Not necessarily directed to you.)

[stratostar 5]

So what about the LPU's???
Thats floation gear for ya'll that don't know.
Do you have it on?
Do the other students have any?
If your that close to the water don't you think it might be a good thing to have?
What about early/late in the season when the water temp is cold, how long do you think you can stay in the water and live?
There is a lot to think about, as I said jumping next to an open body of water is not something to take lighly.

"I myself have procrastinated about getting my B lisence mostly because its a pain in the ass to seek someone out who has the time to go over it all with me in detail" (quote)

Not as big of a pain in your ass as finding yourself going into the drink and not knowing what the hell to do or even the basic survival skills to even have a chance to save your ass.
Just food for thought!
Go get the trainning and maybe brush up on your treading water skills and jump with floation, one day you might wish you had done so.

~

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[stratostar 5]

When was your last time in a training/hanging harness? (quote)

Two weeks ago when I trained FJC.
I always go first!

~

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[Shark 0]

Quote

When was your last time in a training/hanging harness? (quote)

Two weeks ago when I trained FJC.
I always go first!

~

I taught the FJC on Tuesday and put one on as to demonstrate.
I guess I'm lucky that I teach this stuff everyday. I hope I don't become complacent.

[stratostar 5]

I hope I don't become complacent.

I know what you mean.

~

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo