Kimblair13 0 #1 July 5, 2005 Hey, was wondering what those of you think about the different STRONG harness's. I only have about 125 tandems. 120 of those w/ the new harness and about 5 with the old. The times I've used the old harness I got really bad bruises on my legs, I didn't really feel like I could get the side connectors as tight as I wanted them and the students couldn't pick their feet up as well on landings. I've been super happy with the new harness's until today when I had a miss piggy shaped student that sunk a ton on me on opening. Which was weird cuz I've taken piggy's before and it's been fine. Just wondering what everyone else's experience has been. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverton 0 #2 July 5, 2005 QuoteHey, was wondering what those of you think about the different STRONG harness's. I only have about 125 tandems. 120 of those w/ the new harness and about 5 with the old. The times I've used the old harness I got really bad bruises on my legs, I didn't really feel like I could get the side connectors as tight as I wanted them and the students couldn't pick their feet up as well on landings. I've been super happy with the new harness's until today when I had a miss piggy shaped student that sunk a ton on me on opening. Which was weird cuz I've taken piggy's before and it's been fine. Just wondering what everyone else's experience has been. Miss piggy is always a problem jumping with. Upon landing they can not lift their legs due to: 1) Too much fat. 2) Generally these people have a character: I tried it ones and it does not work, so I will not work. (At least that is my experience) In freefall it is relaxed most of the times because physics (gravity) helps you. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habit, Especially when you are jumping a sport rig Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #3 July 5, 2005 Miss Piggys are always a problem. Get used to it. It is a part of the business. At Pitt Meadows, we use both old and new Strong tandem student harnesses. We keep a couple of old pattern harnesses around because they fit small women better. When the come due for 8-year inspections this winter, I am going to ask the DZO to keep them in service. Hint, I installed rolled edge leg pads (similar to Talon 2, Genera and Telesis 2) on old harnesses to make them more comfortable. Generally ringed harnesses are better, but you do need to learn a few tricks about adjusting them. Once you have learned the new adjusting method, you can back-load it to old harnesses, helping to keep students' feet out in front for landing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kimblair13 0 #4 July 5, 2005 I guess maybe that came off wrong. I have no problem with bigger students and I don't think they're always a problem. I'm more wondering about the sink factor on opening. Is the old harness better, new harness, or simply the way you put either one on. I could care less if the person weighed 300 lbs and it was all in their ass. I'm assuming it's just the way you put their harness on, but wanted other peoples opinion. Not a "miss piggy's are bad" post. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NSEMN8R 0 #5 July 5, 2005 We have 3 old ones and 1 new one. I hate the new one. Especially on big students. They always end up hanging way low and you can't lift them up. If I want to lift them up higher on the old style ones , it's easy to just have them stand up on my feet and lift them up higher. It doesn't work so well on the new one. We were wondering this weekend if Strong would take it on a trade for an older one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #6 July 6, 2005 When we first got the new hanesses I got that 'harness slump' a lot. Not so much any more. I think it comed from not having the back straps tight enough. The position of the hooks is determined mainly by the front straps when you are on the ground, but if you don't cinch up the back straps the harness tends to rotate around the student upon opening....I think. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bosco 0 #7 July 7, 2005 Re Miss Piggys, I have turned down passengers who I thought may be so uncomfortable in the harness it just wasnt worth it (this was usually compounded by lack of wind/ground elevation etc). This was and is a sport and skydiving isnt for everyone (even with the advent of tandem). Maybe Im just a grouch, of sizeist or just plain old tired of lugging those that cant support their own weight around the ski to cries of pain as their legstraps like dental floss get sucked up into their thighs. We are employed to make desicions on anothers behalf. Sometimes its not what they want to hear but ther it is. To the harness question... This has been as issue with every harness Ive used.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skypilot 0 #8 July 13, 2005 I find it quite easy to add to the briref that I will get them to stand on my feet and loosen the leg straps a little under canopy. Once this is done they can lift a knee and slide the leg strap towards it. Feet end up by their ears for landing!Go big! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #9 July 16, 2005 If you adjust the harness properly - on the ground - there is no need for any adjustments under canopy. A properly adjusted - old or new - Strong harness will hold them in a comfortable sitting position that is best for slide landings. Half the benefit of fumbling with leg straps involves exercising leg muscles to get blood flowing through them again. I suspect that half the cases of wobbly knees after landing are caused by poor blood flow under canopy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
John4455 0 #10 July 18, 2005 QuoteI find it quite easy to add to the briref that I will get them to stand on my feet and loosen the leg straps a little under canopy. Once this is done they can lift a knee and slide the leg strap towards it. Feet end up by their ears for landing! After opening I loosen the side straps and the chest strap, and have my passenger slide the leg straps down (not loosen) so they are kind of sitting on them. That way they are not hanging by thier crotch and it helps keep their feet up for the landing. How do ya like it Johnny? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #11 July 19, 2005 I will repeat myself. If you adjust the harness properly (on the ground), they will end up sitting correctly with no need to adjust anything after opening. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydog 2 #12 July 19, 2005 QuoteI will repeat myself. If you adjust the harness properly (on the ground), they will end up sitting correctly with no need to adjust anything after opening. Too true. If the harness is right on the ground then it is right in the air. I did a quite a few jumps with the new strong harness and when adjusted properly I never had a complaint nor a "spewer" in the harness. I like the strong harness more than the sigma harness. Although it is a close thing. The moveable chest strap and hip rings on the strong harness are a real bonus. A combination of the best bits of both harnesses would prove a winner. BrynJourney not destination..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bosco 0 #13 July 20, 2005 Jezz guys, what a crackin debate oto have over a bunch of beers with a group of TIs. Im surprised and a little dis-believing that those of you who have taken the more robust passenger have never had issues with the harness. Never/not at all are definate statements.. So what do we tell our novice TI with the question on harnessing?? As much time as I put into harnessing I still have issues with the larger lady when that canopy opens and I look down at the chest strap up around their neck. Yes I spend time working it out as I care deeply about the comfort of my pasenger but the question still remains, how do I solve this. To let our novice TI know that I still have this issuses after a few years of tandems is my answer. With some folk not matter what you do, comfort will be an issue.. Its a fine balance between how much you, as a TI want to take that person (who REALLY wants to go for a skydive ride) and how much you as a professional skydiver will take on the responsibility of an Instructor and say "not today". When you have figured out that question please let me know but please tell all the new TIs that sometimes there is no real good answer to their question and its a case of personal and thoughtful judgment. Cheers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorMark 0 #15 July 21, 2005 The Sigma harness has a movable chest strap. And we will not use hiprings, they have no real benefit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydog 2 #16 July 21, 2005 QuoteThe Sigma harness has a movable chest strap. Had me doubting myself there...... I am sat here with the harness in front of me and the chest strap does not move up and down the MLW like the Strong chest strap does. Yes it does move when the MLW is shortened or extened, but cannot be positioned like the Strong can. As for the hip rings, no biggie. Like I said before there is very little difference, in practice, using both harnesses. Each one has reduced the amount of complaints and feelings of nausea my students have had. BrynJourney not destination..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
egons 0 #17 July 21, 2005 Guess someone needs to show you how to move the Chest Strap up and down the MLW! Not very difficult... "Start doing what's necessary, then what's possible, and suddenly you're doing the impossible!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydog 2 #18 July 21, 2005 QuoteGuess someone needs to show you how to move the Chest Strap up and down the MLW! Not very difficult... Am I going mental here???????? The chest strap attachment to the MLW is fixed on my harness. Unlike the one on the Strong harness which moves freely up and down. So unless you suggest a pair of scissors, that strap aint moving unless I lengthen and shorten the MLW. But if you wanna come and show me feel free. BrynJourney not destination..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorMark 0 #19 July 21, 2005 Ok, one step at a time. 1 grab the chest strap by the buckle where it joins onto the MLW. 2. Grab the main lift web with the other hand. 3. pull in opposite directions. 3. let me know how it went. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bosco 0 #20 July 21, 2005 but remember if you use scissors to assist in this process be sure to stow them safely down the passengers jumpsuit for the exit n freefall. Otherwise the TI might get cut n stuff... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydog 2 #21 July 21, 2005 QuoteOk, one step at a time. 1 grab the chest strap by the buckle where it joins onto the MLW. 2. Grab the main lift web with the other hand. 3. pull in opposite directions. 3. let me know how it went. Unfair, getting double teamed here. Ok, did that and guess what............it didnt move Guess why?? Cos I have no clue...... Can you send a drawing or something in braille for me?? I'll get my scissors to it and let you know how that went....... edited to add: Cheers Neil for the safety tip, but you know I am only allowed to use the round safety scissors after the last time.......but we'll keep that quiet Cheers BrynJourney not destination..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bosco 0 #22 July 21, 2005 Yowwwwwwww Mr B, no mate, I agree with you completely. That model harness has an imovable chest strap. As to the scissors Round end scissors not as much fun to run with. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
egons 0 #23 July 22, 2005 OK Mate! Mark and I have just grabbed a Passenger Harness and taken 3 photo's to just show you different locations of the Chest Strap on the MLW. Please note the location of the lower junction and you will see the MLW is not adjusted what so ever - only the chest strap is movedClearly who ever certified you on a Sigma Tandem system never did a good enough job ensuring you know how to size the passenger harness correctly for the passenger... Hope this clears it up!! Cheers Egon "Start doing what's necessary, then what's possible, and suddenly you're doing the impossible!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydog 2 #24 July 22, 2005 I see that, and as I said before it aint moving.... Tried brute force, tried ignorance,tried getting friends to move it, tried (non-roundy ended) scissors, nothing and then there was a tug, snap and pop and bingo..... Have no idea why it wouldn't move. As for the certification well put it this way I got an hour lecture/practical (thanks Neil) from the Strong Conversion IE and zip from the Vector IE........go figure. That would splain ma iggeronance..... Anyway, thanks for taking the time to show me, and I suspect quite a few others how it should go. (Even though you were beating on my sorry ass....will let it go this time but next time.....hahahah) Cheers BrynJourney not destination..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
egons 0 #25 July 22, 2005 ...its all good! I am sure you're not the only one out there who was not sure! Exactly why Mark and I posted to clarify the situation! Have fun... Egon "Start doing what's necessary, then what's possible, and suddenly you're doing the impossible!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
