So what's the real difference?

[RkyMtnHigh 0]

In "coach" rating and jumping with a newbie and working on proficiencies and "fun jumping" and working with a newbie on fall rates?

I've done several "fun jumps" with newbies who are frustrated that they can't stay with a faster faller, or slow down etc...and I do fun jumps with them to work on fall rates and they seem to be appreciative of my ideas and for jumping with them. There is so much gratification in jumping and helping others with their learning curve although I'm still in mine in other disciplines...so what I wanna know is what's the benefit of getting a "coach" rating vs what I'm already doing?

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[larsrulz 0]

For what you are doing, there will really be minimal benefit in getting the coach rating. There is some information in the course about how to teach people to skydive, but it depends on if the individual (you in this case) is lacking in this area. If you are already good to getting your point across and helping people understand what they may not completely comprehend, then this aspect of the course isn't terrible necessary. All the course will do is standardize you to some guidelines that the USPA sets down.

The rating itself will allow you to jump with people prior to their getting their rating (once clear for self supervision) and let you complete refresher training and jumps for experienced jumpers. If you merely wish to continue to fun jump with post-A license newbies, then there isn't a lot of benefit in my opinion.

I got a strong urge to fly, but I got no where to fly to. -PF

[Paige 0]

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There is so much gratification in jumping and helping others with their learning curve

I had to say I can't agree more!

Regardless of the rating, stick with it girl. Sounds like you are doing awesome things! Come play in the tunnel with me next time you visit Z-hills, Lake Wales, DeLand, I'd love to finally meet you

Work, work, gotta do work today, ahhhhhhh!

Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate
www.TunnelPinkMafia.com

[TALONSKY 0]

One of the benefits to the Coach rating is you get your jumps paid for, also depending on the DZ you can earn some money. The rating is also needed if you plan on becoming a Tandem instructor or a AFF instructor.
Kirk

[tombuch 0]

I'm a Coach Course Director.

The first thing a coach rating will do for you is to improve the way you teach. I find my teaching is always better after I've given a course simply because it has forced me to refocus on the basics. I think you will get a good deal out of the program, and it will improve what you are generously offering the newbies.

A coach course is also the first step in along the USPA instructional pathway. It provides a great foundation into how the USPA programs work. The rating allows you to jump with real students at an earlier stage, and that makes your teaching at higher levels even better. The rating is also required for other instructional ratings. You may believe you will never want to be a tandem of AFF instructor (or SL/IAD instructor), but the course might change or mind, or it may not. In any case, it will give you a better sense of who you are as a teacher, and what direction you will want to go.

Thanks for helping out with our new jumpers!
.

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[AggieDave 6]

Tom,

I want to add a couple of thoughts.


A coach rating is what you make of it. If you take it serious and fully apply good flying skills and teach modern and proper flying skills (for instance, the coaches at my DZ teach similarly to SDU in terms of body positions and technique...start, coast, stop, etc), then you're going to be able to really help out a student.

AFF-I's teach a student how to survive, how to pull and how to get stable (which is really hard, I've got a lot of respect for that), Coaches teach a student the next series of skills they need. How to move around in the sky, how to dock on a formation, how to track and more technique with their canopy control.

If you're not a good coach or you're not willing to put the time into each student then don't get a rating. Do NOT get the rating to simply get your jumps paid for, or so you can just go do fun jumps with folks who don't have their A-license. Sure, sometimes what they need is a fun jump to blow off steam, BUT they need a good teacher, a mentor in this sport to help them learn the skills they need.

To agree, helping students is one of the most gratifying things in this sport. Hell, I spent 5 hours working with a student on Tuesday, we only were able to do 2 jumps, but the DZ he had been jumping at had left out a lot of important information on canopy control and other things like swoop and docking and tracking. So we spent a couple hours learning on the ground, then the jump, then a debrief (that was not as long), then repeat. After those two jumps he was feeling comfident about his flaring and accuracy (after being worried about it and crashing quite a bit) and he could track pretty well.

Was all that time worth the 2 free jumps? In a professional skydiver way, nope, I can do 10 tandems in 5 hours and make a bit of money.

Was it worth it to help a student learn and really start down the road to being a successful and safe skydiver? Hell yeah it was!

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[RkyMtnHigh 0]

AggieDave and TomBuch, thanks so much for your input. The gratification of the other person having that "ah ha" moment based on a small suggestion I've made is my only reason for considering the coach rating not for having jumps paid for or any other financial gain. I would have a hard time accepting any remuneration if I get the rating because I am getting just as much out of it and enjoy the jumps as well.

I recall so many who helped me early on, and simply consider this as paying it forward. Those who I've worked with lately laugh at my moto "Easy Breezy" because I like to explain things as simple as possible and to focus on just one or two concepts at a time vs overwhelming the other person. That's how I learn best and it seems as though it works for others as well.

Paige..I applaud your commitment with the tunnel and am glad you're enjoying the gratification of helping others as well.

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[Tink1717 2]

In addition to what the others have said, getting an official rating has several benefits that are outside of skydiving. For example:
Having a rating means that you are now able to take deductions for certain expenses related to skydiving. Talk to an accountant for the details, but these write-offs can be significant.

Getting ratings means you are interested in taking your jumping to the next level. It's one thing to do this informally, it's something else to do it in a formal, structured setting.

Having a rating means having to keep constantly informed and aware of new developments in the sport. You will get asked all kinds of things by newbies and certain old timers as well.

On the whole, it is a worthwhile thing.

Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off.
-The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717

[peek 20]

I can't tell you how much I appreciate your giving back to the sport like that. Keep up the good work.

[RkyMtnHigh 0]

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I can't tell you how much I appreciate your giving back to the sport like that. Keep up the good work.

Easy Breezy..let's just go have fun! There's no such thing as a "bad jump" in my opinion.

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[riggerrob 558]

A coach rating issued by USPA, CSPA, Skydive University, etc. increases your credibility, allowing you to charge for your time.
All due respect to old-school load organizers like Tom Piras, Jerry Bird, Roger Ponce, and their ilk, but there were also plenty also plenty of self-professed "coaches" who couldn't organize a piss-up in a brewery. They were only in it for the free jumps ... one minute briefing ... barely in the same grid square in freefall ... no de-brief, etc.
Formal coaching certification will reaffirm your knowledge of basic skydiving skills, getting them in tune with what is being taught in this century, tighten up your teaching style and put you on the same wave length as other coaches in your neighborhood.

Rob Warner
CSPA Coach 2
Coaching Association of Canada Level 2 Theory
Instrucotr PFF, IAD, S/L and tandem
Master Rigger
maker of Handy-Mounts and all around great guy

[diablopilot 2]

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A coach rating issued by USPA, CSPA, Skydive University, etc. increases your credibility, allowing you to charge for your time.

Exactly. I'd be very skeptical of anyone who charges for their time and doesn't even have a basic coaches rating of some sort. In the air or the tunnel.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Andy9o8 0]

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There's no such thing as a "bad jump" in my opinion.

I couldn't agree more. And I find that that positive attitude can be very difficult to get newer students in particular to accept and internalize; they often consider any AFF level jump that has to be repeated as a "failure". Some just refuse to accept the idea that there is no such thing as a "failed" training jump. They may then take that attitude with them as self-supervising newbies and get very frustrated with progressing slower than they think they should. I'm not an instructor; but IMHO what makes a good coach (or instructor)? One who not only passes on good skills, but also the right attitude. Seems like you're doing just that!

[feuergnom 22]

the benefit of a coach rating? well as the others have already mentioned - you can work with real students once they are cleared for self-supervised jumping.

i made my coach rating last year. i hated the course but i love everything that followed it. in the school i work with 3 coach jumps before students are making their exam are mandatory. so they can choose what they want to learn. some take more than these 3 jumps, some just the mandatory ones. the last one took coaching from jump 8 - 28 - no wonder she finished with bravado and flies better than other jumpers on the dz with say 100 jumps

so getting this rating helps you to contribute to the dz - the better the students are, the bigger their smiles get when they see they can go along with the "more experienced" folk once they have the a-license

to make it short - i love being a coach and i don't regret getting this rating

The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle

dudeist skydiver # 666

[RkyMtnHigh 0]

Quote

Quote

There's no such thing as a "bad jump" in my opinion.

I couldn't agree more. And I find that that positive attitude can be very difficult to get newer students in particular to accept and internalize; they often consider any AFF level jump that has to be repeated as a "failure". Some just refuse to accept the idea that there is no such thing as a "failed" training jump. They may then take that attitude with them as self-supervising newbies and get very frustrated with progressing slower than they think they should. I'm not an instructor; but IMHO what makes a good coach (or instructor)? One who not only passes on good skills, but also the right attitude. Seems like you're doing just that!

You should see my AFF logbook it's hilarious! and even more surprising that I kept jumping

Some excerpts for your entainment:
L1 (MileHi/CO)- Good climbout, Good A, Gave legsout, good landing..cleared for L2

L2 (Gold Coast/William Brightwell)- Don't hang onto the bar in the Otter, Good exit, Great Body pos, Good turns,loss of AA,trouble finding PC,good landing..cleared for L3

L3 (Gold Coast/William Brightwell) Otter broke down, student very nervous about jumping out of C182, rolled exit backwards, dearched into pike, regained stability at 8K, no release, responded to pull signal, landed without radio, flared waaaay to high..REPEAT L3

L3 attempt #2 (GC/WB) Still stressed about the C182, better exit, responded to legs out signal, trouble finding PC, good toe taps, left hand turn, didn't stop the turn, no heading ref, instructor redocked, no release, instructor pulled for student. confusion on radio, flared too high..REPEAT L3.

L3..#3 (Eloy/Greg Foster) All good, uneventful. Cleared for L4

L4 (Eloy/Greg Foster) Good exit, Good COA, JM release, no counter on right turn, kept spinning, JM redocked and stopped, JM released and student started to spin again, weak flare..REPEAT L4

L4 (Eloy/GF) Good exit, Good COA,Good turns,Good AA, downwind landing..good PLF please be careful Pass to L5

L5 (Eloy/GF) Good diving exit, Good AA,Good counter on turns,forward mvmt started but way off line..good canopy control, hard landing..flared too high REPEAT L5

L5 #2 (Eloy/Tim Strauss) Perfect L5, Good dive exit,unstable then stable,great left and right turns,good forward mvmt be more aggressive,good canopy control, nice landing..Ready for L6

L6 (Eloy/Tim Strauss)Good exits, BOTH of them That was very funny..let go of the bar! Good recovery, Great AA, Great track, nice and straight, good job staying stable, good pull,good canopy control..Flare all the way! Ready for L7

L7 (Eloy/Ron) Nice solo dive exit,relaxed and stable, great AA, we tried new way to track it'll get better with time, you fly nice and relaxed, its obvious you are comfortable in the sky, great pull at 4500, good canopy control, cleared for solo skydive..Congratulations! Graduate AFF.


Now can you see why I have compassion for newbies? AFF is stressful. When I got to repeat a level I used to refer to it as "getting to do it again" vs a failure. I feel as though more experience and skill is gained by things NOT going so "perfect"

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[DanglesOZQld 0]

A Bad Jump is still a lot better than a good day at work!!!

Also an AFF jump not "passed to the next stage" is not a fail but a repeat!!!

BSBD! -Mark.

"A Scar is just a Tattoo with a story!!!"

[Andy_Copland 0]

From what im reading your AFF has a slightly differant structure

Lvl - 1 basically exit (i managed to get the pull signal on lvl 1! thats gota be a record)

Lvl 2 - Still working on exit, this time throw a track in

Lvl 3 - They let me go when i was stable

Lvl 4 - 90 degree turns

Lvl 5 - 360 degree turns (that was fun )

Lvl 6 - Still waiting to do

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.