readysetjo 0 #1 April 1, 2005 A question for instructors......I'm new to the sport and by just hanging around at the DZ over the last several years and pretending to know what's going on (haha) I've managed to become friends with some folks who are extremely qualified in the sport, most are infact instructors for the DZ. Several of them have offered to jump with me during my AFF progression. My questions..... How many of you are serious about jumping with friends for slots only, no pay? and second... Is it appropriate for me to even ask you? I'm just not sure if they have offered out of kindness and welcoming newbies into the sport or if they genuinely mean they want to help me out with my training. Thanks for your honestyYour attitude in life determines your altitude!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlmiracle 7 #2 April 1, 2005 I've done it, but it costs more than just slots. You have gear rental if the instructor doesn't have their own gear and the dz needs to make some money to keep the lights on and so forth The only thing I can "waive" is what I get paid. I (the instructor) approached the person with the proposition, not the other way around. JudyBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,053 #3 April 1, 2005 QuoteIs it appropriate for me to even ask you? Nope.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
readysetjo 0 #4 April 1, 2005 Thanks for the reply, the guys did offer first and they all have their own equipment and I've already gotten the slot and rig rental price from the DZO. I realize they are in skydiving for the passion of the sport but they also want to make extra money and I just don't want to impose on anyone but at the same time I don't want to pass up an offer for support both in the air and financially. How oftern have you be willing to "waive" what you get paid? Thanks againYour attitude in life determines your altitude!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
larsrulz 0 #5 April 1, 2005 QuoteI realize they are in skydiving for the passion of the sport but they also want to make extra money and I just don't want to impose on anyone but at the same time I don't want to pass up an offer for support both in the air and financially. How oftern have you be willing to "waive" what you get paid? Only got my coach's rating with an SL-I coming soon, but I'm more than willing to go out with a student just for the slot. Now if they are doing a training jump, then they should expect to pay for it. However, if it is either them going out and doing a solo or me helping them work on their fall rate, then I won't give a second thought to jumping with them; I have even paid my own slot to jump with students. The question I have for those who simply say "no," what is the difference between jumping with a student with 24 jumps and a licensed jumper with 26? Why should one have to pay you while you're willing (in some cases) to pay your own slot for the other? My Coach's Course Director told me you should never give away training for free, or people will take advantage of it. That is certainly one way to look at it, but I know I have received my fair share of "free training." A packing class, some water training, pointers on getting my canopy in the bag, replacing a brake line, hell even load organizing from people I never met before at the WFFC, so I need to give all of this back to the skydiving community that gave it to me. I certainly don't believe the community should be about charging people $5 here and $10 there. This is some people's sole income source, so it's understandable that they cannot do a payless jump when there is a paid one in waiting, but I will question those for which skydive instruction is a mere hobby yet they would rather sit on the ground then help out a student. I got a strong urge to fly, but I got no where to fly to. -PF Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlmiracle 7 #6 April 1, 2005 I've been an instructor for about 4 years and have done it twice. Most of my non-jumping friends won't even do a tandem so I don't even bother approaching them about AFF and my sisters went through AFF before I had my rating. If they approached you then I don't see a problem with it. I have answered the phone at the DZ and have been giving every story under the sun on why they shouldn't have to pay or at least not full price, but those people are total strangers to me. Even had one person who wanted to do a tandem and said it was a friends dieing wish that the do a tandem skydive. Good luck with your AFF, with all the money you save start buying the gear you will need when you graduate (altimeter, goggles, helmet, rig, parachutes, jumpsuits, etc..) JBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
John4455 0 #7 April 1, 2005 Most of the instruction that I do is tandem, but on many occasions I have done coach jumps (jumps geared toward earning the A license) for slot. Only because I remember how expensive it was when I was at that stage. How do ya like it Johnny? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SCR10480 0 #8 April 1, 2005 "I'm just not sure if they have offered out of kindness and welcoming newbies into the sport or if they genuinely mean they want to help me out with my training." __________________________________________________ Hi There! I for one, got into Coaching and Instructing to give a little back to the sport. Unfortunately, "giving back" can cost a lot! It's to the point now (at our DZ) that students expect the Coaches to just pay their own way for the privilege of teaching them. Not a good arrangement. Sure, a Coach "only needs a B license" but they also had hotel expenses and the cost of meals at their Coach Course, paid for all the evaluation jumps for themselves and evaluators. Bought texts and other class material, and paid for the course. Personally, I spent over $500.00 for the three days (I made practice jumps too though). The least you could do is pay for their slot. Some don't even think that's fair! Just my $.02 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
readysetjo 0 #9 April 1, 2005 Quote" the least you could do is pay for their slot. Some don't even think that's fair! ____________________________________ I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm happy to pay their slot, hech I'm honored to pay their slot while I'm progressing through CatE. The question in my mind is that if they've offered to jump with me for slots are they then saying that they're offering to jump with me for free? I suppose its kinda like getting to the point of being released to go on solo jumps and wanting a friend to jump with. I would not "need" an instructor and if I just asked them to join me and they said yes I'd think at that point they would be paying for their own slot.Your attitude in life determines your altitude!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SCR10480 0 #10 April 1, 2005 "The question in my mind is that if they've offered to jump with me for slots are they then saying that they're offering to jump with me for free?" No, they are saying they will jump with you for the price of their ticket. Nothing more, nothing less. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites stratostar 5 #11 April 1, 2005 I would do it if, 1. it is some I know. 2. a regular jumpers family member 3. a favor for the dzo 4. for someone who helps out in any way they can at the dz like mowing grass or picking up trash,shagging students, catching tandems,cleaning bathrooms ect. I know who helps out and who sits on their ass. 5. a person packing to pay for jumps because their poor. All of the above are good reasons to do it and give back to the sport, when I see a person busting ass to help around the dz in any way they can I will offer But it don't happen much these days. so next time your at the dz do something to help out around there and earn your helping hand, the dzo should notice your taking out the trash ect. ~you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 558 #12 April 2, 2005 Since skydiving is my sole source of income, I cannot afford to give very much away. I would only do PFF for "mate's rates" if the student was a the girlfriend of another full-time DZ employee, I liked her and a third party asked me. So far, no one has asked me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites aironscott 3 #13 April 2, 2005 This is a great question for this forum. Usually I'll jump with staff members at the dz for no pay when there is no paying jumps to do. I have never asked a good friend or family member to pay me for my services on a jump. And skydiving/rigging is my sole source of income. In fact if I can even get a good friend or family member to jump, I usually make arraingements with the DZO for a cheap jump and pay for it myself. It happens so infrequently that its hardly an issue or hardship. I do not think that is a problem to ask a good friend who is an instructor to jump for no pay with you. You may want to offer to pack for them or pay for a pack job though. That just lets them know that you appreciate them jumping with you.“God Damn Mountain Dew MotherFuckers!” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 1335smaj 6 #14 April 2, 2005 Hi Jo, Good question! The first thing that came to my mind was; "Is Jo a guy or gal?" in my experience it makes a difference. I looked at your home DZ and smiled to myself. I used to jump there. Watched some gals go from level 1 AFF to full fledged members of demo teams in months. They enjoyed free tandems (slots) free AFF (slots) Everyone was lined up to help get her/them get cranked up and streamlined. At the same time I watched guys get shoved forward next to the pilots, treated like second class citizens, and forgotton about after being checked off student status. Guys most often paid for training and gals very often did not. The prettier the the gal, the less she paid. Is it right? Is it wrong? I guess it depends on how you feel about it.All cats die. Socrates is dead. Socrates was a cat. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites stratostar 5 #15 April 2, 2005 I can understand where your coming from, as I said it don't happen much these days and I don't put up billboards around town or the dz saying I'll work for free But I do see who dose what with out being asked to do it just to help out and who don't do shit. So who do think I should or would help out? It won't be a lazy ass that is for sure! ok maybe if she is a good looking lazy ass and shows hooters,LOL then maybe. ~you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pash 0 #16 April 2, 2005 QuoteA question for instructors I'm not an instructor but I am someone who understands where you are coming from. QuoteHow many of you are serious about jumping with friends for slots only, no pay? I had an Australian National Freefly Champion ask me and another on a two 3-way tracking dives. I said "yes" and then asked what I would need to do to arrange it. He said he was organizing (I didn't and still don't know what that means) and I said "ok, so do you need me to pay for your ticket or time?" Bottom line he said he was organizing and didn't need for me to pay for either, just my own ticket. That's a great story for me. The story would be equally great for me if he had asked for money for both the ticket and the time. Expect to pay for what you get and you'll never be disappointed. Once in a while, you'll be pleasantly suprised. Just be upfront and ask them directly. Expect to pay them. You are learning something and they need to eat. We will need to remember this dynamic if we get to their point. edit to note: I did buy a case of beer for him. Symbolism counts!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 7 #17 April 3, 2005 Quoteshagging students Hell get the guy that is shagging students off the DZ. Let the Instructors shag the students"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites stratostar 5 #18 April 3, 2005 BS I'm old school let them hitch hike like we did in the good old days! ~you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 7 #19 April 4, 2005 QuoteBS I'm old school let them hitch hike like we did in the good old days! I meant "Shag" as in "have sex with"."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites stratostar 5 #20 April 4, 2005 OH,(in best austin voice) do I make horney baby.... ~you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 7 #21 April 4, 2005 QuoteOH,(in best austin voice) do I make horney baby.... UH,.....NO! "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites readysetjo 0 #22 April 4, 2005 Somehow these last replys have nothing to do with my original question. Thanks to those of you who stuck to the question at hand and offered your input. It was a sincere question. blue skies!!!!!!!!!!Your attitude in life determines your altitude!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 7 #23 April 4, 2005 QuoteSomehow these last replys have nothing to do with my original question Its called thread drift...You will get used to it. After a question has been asked and answered these things happen. Part of DZ.com is not just information but fun. The information has been given (And BTW a seach would ahve shown this same type of question has been asked several times.) Such as http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1562260#1562260 Expect drift anytime a question has been answered and the thread has ended its usefulness."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AdD 1 #24 April 4, 2005 At my dz it is unheard of to charge more than a jump ticket for a coach jump. This seems pretty typical for small Canadian dz's.Life is ez On the dz Every jumper's dream 3 rigs and an airstream Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jlmiracle 7 #25 April 4, 2005 QuoteThe information has been given (And BTW a seach would ahve shown this same type of question has been asked several times.) Such as http://www.dropzone.com/...post=1562260#1562260 Actually Ron, this this person asked about AFF not just coaching jumps. Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. 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SCR10480 0 #10 April 1, 2005 "The question in my mind is that if they've offered to jump with me for slots are they then saying that they're offering to jump with me for free?" No, they are saying they will jump with you for the price of their ticket. Nothing more, nothing less. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #11 April 1, 2005 I would do it if, 1. it is some I know. 2. a regular jumpers family member 3. a favor for the dzo 4. for someone who helps out in any way they can at the dz like mowing grass or picking up trash,shagging students, catching tandems,cleaning bathrooms ect. I know who helps out and who sits on their ass. 5. a person packing to pay for jumps because their poor. All of the above are good reasons to do it and give back to the sport, when I see a person busting ass to help around the dz in any way they can I will offer But it don't happen much these days. so next time your at the dz do something to help out around there and earn your helping hand, the dzo should notice your taking out the trash ect. ~you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #12 April 2, 2005 Since skydiving is my sole source of income, I cannot afford to give very much away. I would only do PFF for "mate's rates" if the student was a the girlfriend of another full-time DZ employee, I liked her and a third party asked me. So far, no one has asked me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aironscott 3 #13 April 2, 2005 This is a great question for this forum. Usually I'll jump with staff members at the dz for no pay when there is no paying jumps to do. I have never asked a good friend or family member to pay me for my services on a jump. And skydiving/rigging is my sole source of income. In fact if I can even get a good friend or family member to jump, I usually make arraingements with the DZO for a cheap jump and pay for it myself. It happens so infrequently that its hardly an issue or hardship. I do not think that is a problem to ask a good friend who is an instructor to jump for no pay with you. You may want to offer to pack for them or pay for a pack job though. That just lets them know that you appreciate them jumping with you.“God Damn Mountain Dew MotherFuckers!” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1335smaj 6 #14 April 2, 2005 Hi Jo, Good question! The first thing that came to my mind was; "Is Jo a guy or gal?" in my experience it makes a difference. I looked at your home DZ and smiled to myself. I used to jump there. Watched some gals go from level 1 AFF to full fledged members of demo teams in months. They enjoyed free tandems (slots) free AFF (slots) Everyone was lined up to help get her/them get cranked up and streamlined. At the same time I watched guys get shoved forward next to the pilots, treated like second class citizens, and forgotton about after being checked off student status. Guys most often paid for training and gals very often did not. The prettier the the gal, the less she paid. Is it right? Is it wrong? I guess it depends on how you feel about it.All cats die. Socrates is dead. Socrates was a cat. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #15 April 2, 2005 I can understand where your coming from, as I said it don't happen much these days and I don't put up billboards around town or the dz saying I'll work for free But I do see who dose what with out being asked to do it just to help out and who don't do shit. So who do think I should or would help out? It won't be a lazy ass that is for sure! ok maybe if she is a good looking lazy ass and shows hooters,LOL then maybe. ~you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pash 0 #16 April 2, 2005 QuoteA question for instructors I'm not an instructor but I am someone who understands where you are coming from. QuoteHow many of you are serious about jumping with friends for slots only, no pay? I had an Australian National Freefly Champion ask me and another on a two 3-way tracking dives. I said "yes" and then asked what I would need to do to arrange it. He said he was organizing (I didn't and still don't know what that means) and I said "ok, so do you need me to pay for your ticket or time?" Bottom line he said he was organizing and didn't need for me to pay for either, just my own ticket. That's a great story for me. The story would be equally great for me if he had asked for money for both the ticket and the time. Expect to pay for what you get and you'll never be disappointed. Once in a while, you'll be pleasantly suprised. Just be upfront and ask them directly. Expect to pay them. You are learning something and they need to eat. We will need to remember this dynamic if we get to their point. edit to note: I did buy a case of beer for him. Symbolism counts!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #17 April 3, 2005 Quoteshagging students Hell get the guy that is shagging students off the DZ. Let the Instructors shag the students"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #18 April 3, 2005 BS I'm old school let them hitch hike like we did in the good old days! ~you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #19 April 4, 2005 QuoteBS I'm old school let them hitch hike like we did in the good old days! I meant "Shag" as in "have sex with"."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #20 April 4, 2005 OH,(in best austin voice) do I make horney baby.... ~you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #21 April 4, 2005 QuoteOH,(in best austin voice) do I make horney baby.... UH,.....NO! "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
readysetjo 0 #22 April 4, 2005 Somehow these last replys have nothing to do with my original question. Thanks to those of you who stuck to the question at hand and offered your input. It was a sincere question. blue skies!!!!!!!!!!Your attitude in life determines your altitude!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #23 April 4, 2005 QuoteSomehow these last replys have nothing to do with my original question Its called thread drift...You will get used to it. After a question has been asked and answered these things happen. Part of DZ.com is not just information but fun. The information has been given (And BTW a seach would ahve shown this same type of question has been asked several times.) Such as http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1562260#1562260 Expect drift anytime a question has been answered and the thread has ended its usefulness."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AdD 1 #24 April 4, 2005 At my dz it is unheard of to charge more than a jump ticket for a coach jump. This seems pretty typical for small Canadian dz's.Life is ez On the dz Every jumper's dream 3 rigs and an airstream Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlmiracle 7 #25 April 4, 2005 QuoteThe information has been given (And BTW a seach would ahve shown this same type of question has been asked several times.) Such as http://www.dropzone.com/...post=1562260#1562260 Actually Ron, this this person asked about AFF not just coaching jumps. Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
