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adrenalinejunki

going for coach rating need advice

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I am from a small Cessna dz and I am going to Z-hills in November to try for my coach rating. I have 126 jumps right now and about 30 minutes of tunnel time. Anything paticular that I need to know how to do really well before going?


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Make sure you can chase and stay with someone who is really backsliding and has an unstable fall rate. Common with new students. Jump couple times with someone doing this and practice. It really makes a difference when it comes time to actually do it. Just advice about what worked for me.

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Anything paticular that I need to know how to do really well before going?



Have you looked over the ISP in the SIM? Have you purchased an IRM and done all the pre-reqs? It would be a very good idea to have a physical copy of the SIM for the course too.

The IRM will tell you everything that you'll need to do as well as the SIM will tell you what you're going to be teaching and trying to accomplish on the skydives.
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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classes will be boring as hell.

you'll have someone in front telling you what he's going to talk about, then talking about it and furthermore retelling you what he was just talking about :S

learn the sim by heart (bloody paperework is what they will ask you about)....

to be more constructive: have you attended FJC's and succesfully taught there? good!
work on flying skills as mentioned and work on recognizing what your student is doing. furthermore work on giving the correct signals in time. if you haven't developed these skills yet - you won't learn them at the coach course...

been coaching during the summer - well the coach course barely gives you a glimpse of what is required to be even a moderate coach.

still - go for it & have fun working with students. it's definitely worth it & you'll learn a hell of a lot about yourself :)
The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle

dudeist skydiver # 666

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Like Dave said...
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Have you looked over the ISP in the SIM? Have you purchased an IRM and done all the pre-reqs? It would be a very good idea to have a physical copy of the SIM for the course too.


Have your proficiency card ready to go before you start the course. This will guide you on what should be studied.

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Get all your pre-reqs done and out of the way. Make sure you've done the FJC part of it all, etc etc. That way you can just sit through class, make your jumps, take your test and be done.

Oh, and I totally disagree on the class being boring. If you truely want to learn to be a good coach, the class should be very informative. The reason they teach that way - telling you what they are going to teach you, teaching you, and then recapping it all - is because that is how you will be coaching most of your students. They aren't teaching you anything about skydiving that you don't already know - they are teaching you how to teach.

Good luck. Enjoy. :)

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they are teaching you how to teach



sorry to - slightly - disagree with you - during the coach-course you are shown how the buddy-principle (spell?) works and how you will always find yourself on the safe side using this teaching-concept. if you teach this way nobody can ever complain that you didn't tell everything to a more than exhaustive extent

maybe that's the only method that really works for "stupid/asshat" students
the more intelligent students tend to get bored to death

- but what do i know :o


edit for spell
The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle

dudeist skydiver # 666

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I would disagree with you.

The coach course teaches you how to teach and gives you application of the techniques to skydiving lessons. It also teaches/evaluates your observation skills in air and your ability to teach from these observations.

If the course doesn't deal with these, then the Course Director isn't teaching (candidates failing to learn).


I am not totally useless, I can be used as a bad example.

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To make things as easy as possible, attend several FJC's and stick around for the entire class and pay attention. This will help immensly. Our guys who went to a coach course also said they were very intimidated by the directors and by the practical evaluations, so be prepared to have your skills questioned. As someone else said also, practice the evaluation dives before going. It's still fun to learn it all and it will make you a better skydiver and a better teacher. Then use it.
"It's very important at this point that you don't simply become a passenger." Flight instructor Dennis Anderson speaking about life and crosswind landings.



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>>>practice the evaluation dives before going

If the candidate has not read the IRM dealing with primary/recency curve, or has been introduced to the learning objective outlined in each category, practicing evaluation dives may be a receipt for failure. Remember your Course Director is your mentor and he will be expecting you to teach him or the evaluator the same methods he just got finished teaching you the day before. .02$ worth

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hey bro, if you took a coaches course and you were bored, wait till you decide to get an AFF instructor rating. I took the AFF cert course in 01 with Glenn Bangs. It was long and stressful, But, it was the most interesting 9 days of my life. I guess learning is what you make of it.
learning to teach skydiving should never be boring, I'm sorry it was for you.

Stay Safe,
Jim Oke
The ground always, remembers where you are!

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ok, i guess i have to be more specific why i felt bored.

i went to the coach-course with high expectations
rehearsing the sim & the irm during the course for a whole day bored me to death - cause i think (note: personal opinion & no attack to anybody in specific) that is the homework that should be done before and _NOT_during the course itself

what i really liked was the practical stuff - to have somebody from outside my dz evaluate me teaching. to have somebody give feedback on my debrief after a jump. to have some highly experienced jumper by my side showing me how to be prepared for the unexpected.....

if my first posts were to negative - sorry for that, only tried to tell my experience.

as for aff-rating: i don't feel nowhere near making it. maybe in the future, when students are no longer able to outfly me :$

& for coaching itself: hell, thats the challenge i was trying to master & definitely the best and most satisfying thing i was doing this very summer
The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle

dudeist skydiver # 666

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I agree with wsinsel. Attend a couple FJC at your DZ and if possible other DZ's. what it will do is show you how people at YOUR DZ teach. it's good to keep things relativly consistant for students. I helped teach a coach course a few weeks ago, and for some reason the coach canidates do get very intimidated and nervous... remember, it's just like jumping..relax..;) you.. know this stuff, your instructors are just trying to point out some things that might happen w/ students.. almost never till everything go 100% as planned. learn to expect the unexpected and then still be posative and encouraging for your student.
Personally, I teach... to teach.. What, Why, & How
Overall what you are going to learn.. ie fall rate.
Why you are learning it.. ie. because not all skydivers fall at the same rate and explain why.
then How you vary your fall rate.

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As a CCD, I agree that candidates should review the ISP. I will go over a section or 2 and evaluate if they have done so. If they seem to have read the material, then I only cover high points and move on to the more effective portions of the course. The coach course is not meant to be a 'let me teah you the ISP course', you should already know that material. As more DZ's use the ISP that should evolve into candidates knowing that material better. If you learned through an AFF method, you should have some idea about AFF.

It is a PREREQUISITE to have taught FJC's and assisted in them. There isn't time in the course to do this. We do have candidates teach portions of the FJC for evaluation. As you mentioned, this is an excellent time for tips. I think it is important for evaluators to clarify the difference between tips and evaluation criteria. Use of whole-part-whole is evauluation. How you present a part could be a tip.

I always encourage new coaches and instructors to listen to others teach whenever possible. You can always learn from this. You may learn things you don't want to do, but you will also find things you want to use. Different anologies to get your point across is 1 example. The more tools you have in your bag of tricks, the easier it will be to get your point across to someone who is having a hard time with a concept or task.


I am not totally useless, I can be used as a bad example.

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Hi Brad,
I just got my Coach rating in Feb of this year, and while many of the answers you've gotten are true and valid the one thing I would suggest is learning to become an actor. You will be teaching "students" that happen to have 5000 (or more) jumps.
Pay VERY close attention to gear/equipment checks. Study the "rule of three's" and DO NOT allow your student to distract you...cuz they're gonna try! I only have 900 jumps, and my "student" has 10,000 and I was (and am) a bit it awe of the guy, so the tough part for me was treating this Legend like a Cat. G or F student.
The whole course is geared towards the AFF program, so if you 182 Dropzone is like mine, (we do Tandem and S/L)...Bone up on the AFF progression.
Your flying skills will be tested, but not too extreme. You may encounter a backslide, a weak arch or loss of altitude awareness...or all three!

Relax, be kind and fun and you'll do just great!

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Thanks everyone you have been very helpful. The coarse is in only a couple weeks. I can't wait but I am nervous as hell. The flying skills I have, but it's the classroom part that I hate. I can teach really well when it is one on one or even 2 students but that is my limit. I get all nervous when there is a bunch of people watching me.....[:/]. One of my problems is that I am having trouble getting to sit in on a FJC. Neither of the 2 dz's I go to have had a FJC when I was'nt working in the past couple months.[:/]

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You need to understand a couple of things. First, with repetition comes confidence. Second, if you don't like teaching then why are you getting a rating? With everything except tandem you are going to have to spend far more time talking than you are actually skydiving.

Personally, I really enjoy the classroom aspect of teaching. It gives me great satisfaction to see peoples faces when they finally "get it." The better job you do on the ground, the better they are going to do in the air; simple fact.

Don't sweat it.

Chuck

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Second, if you don't like teaching then why are you getting a rating



I'm not saying its the case in this instance, but more then a few times I've seen folks trying to go for ratings simply because they were on a power trip and thought a rating would give them more "power" in their word and people would automatically bow to their opinion. The couple that actually got their ratings and didn't fail what ever course they were in, were amazed that no one gave a shit they were rated.

Unfortunately those folks do still get their rating and then deal with students, its sad.
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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Well I do love to teach people about skydiving. My only problem is that I don't want to teach 10 at once. I can work really well and help people learn better when it is 1 on 1 or even 2 students. Right now I help most of our students learn to pack. They pick it up fast when they aren't fighting to get to where they can see what is going on like pigs on a tit. At the dz's I jump at I really don't have to worry about that because FJC's are few and far in between. Mostly just tandems. But what few students we do have I try to help them in every possible way I can to help them get their A license.

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The real motivation for me to get the rating is because I remember how hard it was to get the attention of ANYONE who could help me get something signed off on my proficiency card when I was a student, even the parts that don't require a jump. I geuss the deal was "If they don't get paid for it or a free jump then they aren't interested in helping because someone else will." Well I don't want to see anymore students who have been working so hard to get their license have to wait to send in their card because no one knows cloud clearances and won't take the time to look it up and then sign it off when the student tells them what they are. Sorry folks if I am wrong for trying to help someone when it comes to something stupid like that, which is holding them back from an A license. If you still think I am wrong then why not explian to me why you think so?????
It is hard for a student to even learn to pack because nobody gets paid for it but I work with them anyways and I sometimes take all evening having them pack with me right there watching ( and a rigger present tee hee). I believe the only true way for them to learn it is to do it and not stand there watching 20 different people all packing thier own rigs and telling them what they are doing and not accually teaching anything. Not to mention that all 20 of them are teaching them to flat pack and PRO pack at the same time and 20 different variations of each. You can't learn much that way, especially when you are a student and don't know anything about what the hell you are looking at. Sorry about going on and on like this but I am tired and what I just read rubbed me the wrong way.

Blue Skies

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seems like you try to give something back that you didn't receive during your training - that's a good motivation & a good job [:) - but don't get exploited *hey we can take a rest 'cause adreanlinejunki is doing all the work* [:/]

good luck & keep us informed on how your coach course went
The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle

dudeist skydiver # 666

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Right on dude! That basically sums up many of the reasons that I will be working towards my coach rating in the near future.



I second that, although folks were pretty helpful with me, I paid for SDU. There is a gap in between AFF and A license that can leave students in limbo and they can't even jump with other skydivers to learn anything. Only coaches and almost all of those guys charge. That doesn't make a good intro to the sport for someone just done paying for AFF and contemplating buying a rig.

To cap it off I just learned that one of my local DZs won't let coach rated jumpers jump with AFF graduates, you need to be an AFF I >:(. Let's hope that nonsense doesn't spread.

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