Liemberg 0 #26 September 29, 2004 QuoteOn the other hand, it would be nice if SEI moved its handles in line with the rest of the tandem industry (i.e. second drogue release handle on lower left). That would make it easier for national aero clubs to take over the role of training new TIs. But that is a "minor modification" *) on a DHT already... *) Don't want to go into who can / cant / should / shouldn't - just to say that there are DHT's out there with secondary drogue release handle lower left and that it is not much work to modify them. And yes, overhere the national aeroclub has taken over the training of new TIs. But for the time being it isn't mandatory so old dogs like myself dont have to learn new tricks... "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #27 September 29, 2004 It would be my guess that the new Strong will look amazingly like a bigger Quasar. That's pure speculation on my part, but if it doesn't then they are really not listening to the consumer......at all. When Strong announced "the revelation that will change the tandem industry" at the last PIA (the rent/lease-per-jump program), I just shook my head. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiveoc 0 #28 September 29, 2004 People may argue of the cheaper cost of the racer and strong rigs in comparison to Sigma. Owning both Strong and Sigma systems, I can say that the replacement costs and wear is greater with Strong, quickly using up that savings in about 2 years. Stong bags are overengineered and pricey while Sigmas are...bags. Ive replaced 4 Strong bags in 2 years at $140 per while no Sigma bags at $60 per. Seems to be more wear points on the strongs than on Sigma resulting in more maintanence costs. My vote for canopies is Sigma then Icarus. Everything else seems dated now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OnYourBack 0 #29 September 29, 2004 I'm Vector and Sigma because that is what the DZ owns. I haven't had the opportunity to jump Strong but would if thats what the DZ had. I'm curious, is there anyone who believes that Strong is the way to go? I may have missed one but all of the posts seem fairly skewed against Strong rigs. Are they bad or just not quite as good? What are some specific things bad about them other than the maintenance of bags just mentioned? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #30 September 30, 2004 QuoteIt would be my guess that the new Strong will look amazingly like a bigger Quasar. That's pure speculation on my part, but if it doesn't then they are really not listening to the consumer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hee! Hee! Eleven years ago I told them to develop a new tandem container based on the Quasar. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andrewwhyte 1 #31 September 30, 2004 Quote Last summer our Twin Otter visited a DZ that uses Strong rigs. I'm sitting on the bench wearing my Sigma, and as the Strong guys stand up to walk down the aisle, I almost grabbed their arms to tell them their shit was falling out of the main containers. It took me a second to realize that's what the rigs normally look like. Nasty! It is not what the rigs normally look like. It is what they look like when worn by lazy TMs. I have never gotten out with stuff hanging out of my main container. When I got my rating five years ago our oldest rigs had main flaps that were too short to tuck in (that style has been retired or updated at their eightyear). Nonetheless I never allowed that to be an excuse to not tuck the drogue in. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bclark 0 #32 October 4, 2004 QuoteIt is not what the rigs normally look like. It is what they look like when worn by lazy TMs. I agree 100%. Strongs do not look like shit if you take a little time to clean them up and stow excess bridle / mud flap where you should. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites foreverfree 0 #33 October 24, 2004 Good thinking!BORN FREE LIVING FREE FOREVER FREE FALLING FREE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LukeOliver 0 #34 January 31, 2005 Rated on Vector/Sigma/Eclipse/Atom/Strong. Short'n'shiny: Vector: A nice baseline. Sigma: current king of the heap. Remove "out of sequence" and see how much simpler the decision tree looks. Enjoy - pull a golf ball and give both thumbs up to the camera. Does take a little longer to close. The best student harness in the business - if you're not using them, you're doing your customers a disservice. Eclipse: Very Vector. Unsure about additional drogue release on cutaway, avoiding having third parties in my drogue whilst I decide. Tuck tabs really give me the gripes - they can dislocate in freefall and beat the crap out of your ears. Have tried many things to stop it, but had me wishing for Vector velcro. Long lasting. Strong: Seemingly unsuited to small framed TIs (I'm 167cm) - big, I tend to float in the harness, and difficult to get any value out of the side attachments. Have survived an out of sequence, possibly two (the second one was at night and not videoed). Don't understand why the two pin mod isn't mandated. Two pin reserve prone to pin displacement in a way the others are not. Drogue mounting point makes for good heap up position in droguefall - useful for outside cam, pointless for handcam. [judge]Not for me any more.[/judge] L. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hooknswoop 19 #35 January 31, 2005 QuoteTuck tabs really give me the gripes - they can dislocate in freefall and beat the crap out of your ears. Have tried many things to stop it, but had me wishing for Vector velcro. I asked Jesse about the riser covers (and the reserve ripcords being too short, zero slack), he said, "our Eclipse's don't have that problem." Um, thanks. That's really helpful. He said he would take a look at the ripcords, but never did. Sigmas are the only way to go. Anything else is sub standard. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #36 January 31, 2005 QuoteSigmas are the only way to go. Anything else is sub standard. I'm really wanting to see what Aerodyne has in the works for their new tandem system they're working on. I know that their canopy offering (A2) really impressed me, the first tandem canopy I've jumped besides the Sigma 370 that I would gladly jump or buy to put my own system together. So I have high hopes for their forth coming system. However, they're going have to work really hard to make it compare or surpass the Sigma system, especially with the new updates for the Sigma (some introduced at this years PIA and the Skyhook released at the last PIA).--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mfrese 0 #37 January 31, 2005 QuoteI asked Jesse about the riser covers (and the reserve ripcords being too short, zero slack), he said, "our Eclipse's don't have that problem." Well, I worked at SMB for most of 2003 and through March of 2004, and my ears are still stinging from the riser covers on their rigs! On the other side of the coin, I've got a great picture of me with my Dad on a tandem with a Sigma, we're at line stretch, about a 45 degree angle as we're getting pulled upright...and the riser covers are still closed. Doctor I ain't gonna die, Just write me an alibi! ---- Lemmy/Slash Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 558 #38 February 1, 2005 QuoteQuoteSigmas are the only way to go. Anything else is sub standard. I'm really wanting to see what Aerodyne has in the works for their new tandem system they're working on. I know that their canopy offering (A2) really impressed me, the first tandem canopy I've jumped besides the Sigma 370 that I would gladly jump or buy to put my own system together. So I have high hopes for their forth coming system. However, they're going have to work really hard to make it compare or surpass the Sigma system, especially with the new updates for the Sigma (some introduced at this years PIA and the Skyhook released at the last PIA). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Expect Aerodyne's tandem container to look like an ATOM, seeing as how Aerodyne hired the best designers from Parachutes de France. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rustywardlow 0 #39 February 1, 2005 They ,who ever they are. say that if you start out on a Strong you will like a Strong and if you start out on a Vector you will like the Vector. I am rated in Strong, Vector, Sigma and Eclipse. Personally I can't stand the Strong it feels like your wearing a bale of hay instead of a skydiving rig and I hate getting Drouge slammed every time it opens plus it is poorly designed with a bunch of band-aid put in place to solve their proplems. The Vector is nice ( I own one ) but it can be slightly harder to put on and it is kind of stiff. The Eclipse is much easier to put on because the leg straps are longer and I do like the way the handles are stowed, but everyone knows that the Eclipse is a close copy to the Vector. Main preferance of course is the Sgma. It looks like a skydiving rig, you don't have to worry about drouge release handles coming unstowed and just by looking at it you can tell that a lot of time and thought went into it's design Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NSEMN8R 0 #40 February 2, 2005 Quote I hate getting Drouge slammed What's that mean? I like Strong. Of course, I don't have much of a frame of reference since that's all I've ever jumped. You're right about it feeling like a bale of hay though. I guess I just assumed all tandem rigs felt like that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hooknswoop 19 #41 February 2, 2005 Try a Sigma. It will give you a frame of reference. Of course you'll never look at a Strong the same way again Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rustywardlow 0 #42 February 2, 2005 What is drouge slam? Drouge slam can happen on any tandem rig if the kill line is not mantained properly. On the Vector's, Sigma's and the Eclipse as soon as you pull the drouge release handle the drouge collapses and the drag from the bridle and the collapsed drouge pull the bag out of the container. This is commonly refered to as the trap door and makes for a very smooth and soft transion from freefall to canopy deployment. With a Strong rig the drouge does not collapse until the canopy is out of the bag which results in drouge slam every time you pull the drouge release. Which is that sudden jerk that you feel until everything starts to slow down once the canopy is finally out of the bag. With the invention of the Super drouge this proplem has been virtualy elimintated. Hope this answers your questions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NSEMN8R 0 #43 February 4, 2005 QuoteWhat is drouge slam? Drouge slam can happen on any tandem rig if the kill line is not mantained properly. On the Vector's, Sigma's and the Eclipse as soon as you pull the drouge release handle the drouge collapses and the drag from the bridle and the collapsed drouge pull the bag out of the container. This is commonly refered to as the trap door and makes for a very smooth and soft transion from freefall to canopy deployment. With a Strong rig the drouge does not collapse until the canopy is out of the bag which results in drouge slam every time you pull the drouge release. Which is that sudden jerk that you feel until everything starts to slow down once the canopy is finally out of the bag. With the invention of the Super drouge this proplem has been virtualy elimintated. Hope this answers your questions. Yeah. Thanks. But, what's a super drouge? I've never noticed Drouge Slam so maybe I've been jumping one, but I've never heard it called that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites livendive 8 #44 February 8, 2005 QuoteQuoteTuck tabs really give me the gripes - they can dislocate in freefall and beat the crap out of your ears. Have tried many things to stop it, but had me wishing for Vector velcro. I asked Jesse about the riser covers (and the reserve ripcords being too short, zero slack), he said, "our Eclipse's don't have that problem." Um, thanks. That's really helpful. He said he would take a look at the ripcords, but never did. I think the primary reason I like the Eclipse rig is the price and the Icarus mains. I HATE the tuck tab riser covers. I'd say they come undone and try to beat me about the face on 80% of my jumps on that rig. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hooknswoop 19 #45 February 9, 2005 QuoteI think the primary reason I like the Eclipse rig is the price and the Icarus mains. I HATE the tuck tab riser covers. I'd say they come undone and try to beat me about the face on 80% of my jumps on that rig. For the price, the Sigma is hard to beat. It may cost more up front, but is cheaper to maintain. It is a much nicer rig. If I was buying tandem rigs, I'd buy Sigmas w/ PD-R's and Icarus mains. I might put PD's Sigma mains in them if they lined them w/ Vectran. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydiverek 54 #46 February 9, 2005 QuoteI might put PD's Sigma mains in them if they lined them w/ Vectran. Why? Just curious what the benefit would be... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hooknswoop 19 #47 February 9, 2005 Less bulk, less weight, less chance of bag strip. Downside they don't last as long as Dacron. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #48 February 9, 2005 Quote Less bulk, less weight, less chance of bag strip. Downside they don't last as long as Dacron. What about the Dacron's ability to stretch to take a shock? I don't believe there's been any instances of bag strip when the recommended stowing proceedures were used (tandem tube stows on the locking stows, wide tandem bands on the rest). Although I could very well be wrong.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hooknswoop 19 #49 February 9, 2005 QuoteWhat about the Dacron's ability to stretch to take a shock? True, but I have a bunch of jumps on Icarus and the openings were fine. QuoteI don't believe there's been any instances of bag strip when the recommended stowing proceedures were used (tandem tube stows on the locking stows, wide tandem bands on the rest). Although I could very well be wrong. I don't know of any instances either, but witht he lighter lines, it decreases the risk (and the proper stow bands & size like you mentioned). Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kissrg 0 #50 February 9, 2005 Quote For the price, the Sigma is hard to beat. It may cost more up front, but is cheaper to maintain. It is a much nicer rig. If I was buying tandem rigs, I'd buy Sigmas w/ PD-R's and Icarus mains. I might put PD's Sigma mains in them if they lined them w/ Vectran. So would you prefer the Sigma main vs. Icarus if it was lined w/ Vectran? Is the line type so important for you or the canopies are so closed to each other? Robert Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 2 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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Andrewwhyte 1 #31 September 30, 2004 Quote Last summer our Twin Otter visited a DZ that uses Strong rigs. I'm sitting on the bench wearing my Sigma, and as the Strong guys stand up to walk down the aisle, I almost grabbed their arms to tell them their shit was falling out of the main containers. It took me a second to realize that's what the rigs normally look like. Nasty! It is not what the rigs normally look like. It is what they look like when worn by lazy TMs. I have never gotten out with stuff hanging out of my main container. When I got my rating five years ago our oldest rigs had main flaps that were too short to tuck in (that style has been retired or updated at their eightyear). Nonetheless I never allowed that to be an excuse to not tuck the drogue in. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bclark 0 #32 October 4, 2004 QuoteIt is not what the rigs normally look like. It is what they look like when worn by lazy TMs. I agree 100%. Strongs do not look like shit if you take a little time to clean them up and stow excess bridle / mud flap where you should. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
foreverfree 0 #33 October 24, 2004 Good thinking!BORN FREE LIVING FREE FOREVER FREE FALLING FREE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LukeOliver 0 #34 January 31, 2005 Rated on Vector/Sigma/Eclipse/Atom/Strong. Short'n'shiny: Vector: A nice baseline. Sigma: current king of the heap. Remove "out of sequence" and see how much simpler the decision tree looks. Enjoy - pull a golf ball and give both thumbs up to the camera. Does take a little longer to close. The best student harness in the business - if you're not using them, you're doing your customers a disservice. Eclipse: Very Vector. Unsure about additional drogue release on cutaway, avoiding having third parties in my drogue whilst I decide. Tuck tabs really give me the gripes - they can dislocate in freefall and beat the crap out of your ears. Have tried many things to stop it, but had me wishing for Vector velcro. Long lasting. Strong: Seemingly unsuited to small framed TIs (I'm 167cm) - big, I tend to float in the harness, and difficult to get any value out of the side attachments. Have survived an out of sequence, possibly two (the second one was at night and not videoed). Don't understand why the two pin mod isn't mandated. Two pin reserve prone to pin displacement in a way the others are not. Drogue mounting point makes for good heap up position in droguefall - useful for outside cam, pointless for handcam. [judge]Not for me any more.[/judge] L. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #35 January 31, 2005 QuoteTuck tabs really give me the gripes - they can dislocate in freefall and beat the crap out of your ears. Have tried many things to stop it, but had me wishing for Vector velcro. I asked Jesse about the riser covers (and the reserve ripcords being too short, zero slack), he said, "our Eclipse's don't have that problem." Um, thanks. That's really helpful. He said he would take a look at the ripcords, but never did. Sigmas are the only way to go. Anything else is sub standard. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #36 January 31, 2005 QuoteSigmas are the only way to go. Anything else is sub standard. I'm really wanting to see what Aerodyne has in the works for their new tandem system they're working on. I know that their canopy offering (A2) really impressed me, the first tandem canopy I've jumped besides the Sigma 370 that I would gladly jump or buy to put my own system together. So I have high hopes for their forth coming system. However, they're going have to work really hard to make it compare or surpass the Sigma system, especially with the new updates for the Sigma (some introduced at this years PIA and the Skyhook released at the last PIA).--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mfrese 0 #37 January 31, 2005 QuoteI asked Jesse about the riser covers (and the reserve ripcords being too short, zero slack), he said, "our Eclipse's don't have that problem." Well, I worked at SMB for most of 2003 and through March of 2004, and my ears are still stinging from the riser covers on their rigs! On the other side of the coin, I've got a great picture of me with my Dad on a tandem with a Sigma, we're at line stretch, about a 45 degree angle as we're getting pulled upright...and the riser covers are still closed. Doctor I ain't gonna die, Just write me an alibi! ---- Lemmy/Slash Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #38 February 1, 2005 QuoteQuoteSigmas are the only way to go. Anything else is sub standard. I'm really wanting to see what Aerodyne has in the works for their new tandem system they're working on. I know that their canopy offering (A2) really impressed me, the first tandem canopy I've jumped besides the Sigma 370 that I would gladly jump or buy to put my own system together. So I have high hopes for their forth coming system. However, they're going have to work really hard to make it compare or surpass the Sigma system, especially with the new updates for the Sigma (some introduced at this years PIA and the Skyhook released at the last PIA). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Expect Aerodyne's tandem container to look like an ATOM, seeing as how Aerodyne hired the best designers from Parachutes de France. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rustywardlow 0 #39 February 1, 2005 They ,who ever they are. say that if you start out on a Strong you will like a Strong and if you start out on a Vector you will like the Vector. I am rated in Strong, Vector, Sigma and Eclipse. Personally I can't stand the Strong it feels like your wearing a bale of hay instead of a skydiving rig and I hate getting Drouge slammed every time it opens plus it is poorly designed with a bunch of band-aid put in place to solve their proplems. The Vector is nice ( I own one ) but it can be slightly harder to put on and it is kind of stiff. The Eclipse is much easier to put on because the leg straps are longer and I do like the way the handles are stowed, but everyone knows that the Eclipse is a close copy to the Vector. Main preferance of course is the Sgma. It looks like a skydiving rig, you don't have to worry about drouge release handles coming unstowed and just by looking at it you can tell that a lot of time and thought went into it's design Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NSEMN8R 0 #40 February 2, 2005 Quote I hate getting Drouge slammed What's that mean? I like Strong. Of course, I don't have much of a frame of reference since that's all I've ever jumped. You're right about it feeling like a bale of hay though. I guess I just assumed all tandem rigs felt like that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #41 February 2, 2005 Try a Sigma. It will give you a frame of reference. Of course you'll never look at a Strong the same way again Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rustywardlow 0 #42 February 2, 2005 What is drouge slam? Drouge slam can happen on any tandem rig if the kill line is not mantained properly. On the Vector's, Sigma's and the Eclipse as soon as you pull the drouge release handle the drouge collapses and the drag from the bridle and the collapsed drouge pull the bag out of the container. This is commonly refered to as the trap door and makes for a very smooth and soft transion from freefall to canopy deployment. With a Strong rig the drouge does not collapse until the canopy is out of the bag which results in drouge slam every time you pull the drouge release. Which is that sudden jerk that you feel until everything starts to slow down once the canopy is finally out of the bag. With the invention of the Super drouge this proplem has been virtualy elimintated. Hope this answers your questions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NSEMN8R 0 #43 February 4, 2005 QuoteWhat is drouge slam? Drouge slam can happen on any tandem rig if the kill line is not mantained properly. On the Vector's, Sigma's and the Eclipse as soon as you pull the drouge release handle the drouge collapses and the drag from the bridle and the collapsed drouge pull the bag out of the container. This is commonly refered to as the trap door and makes for a very smooth and soft transion from freefall to canopy deployment. With a Strong rig the drouge does not collapse until the canopy is out of the bag which results in drouge slam every time you pull the drouge release. Which is that sudden jerk that you feel until everything starts to slow down once the canopy is finally out of the bag. With the invention of the Super drouge this proplem has been virtualy elimintated. Hope this answers your questions. Yeah. Thanks. But, what's a super drouge? I've never noticed Drouge Slam so maybe I've been jumping one, but I've never heard it called that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #44 February 8, 2005 QuoteQuoteTuck tabs really give me the gripes - they can dislocate in freefall and beat the crap out of your ears. Have tried many things to stop it, but had me wishing for Vector velcro. I asked Jesse about the riser covers (and the reserve ripcords being too short, zero slack), he said, "our Eclipse's don't have that problem." Um, thanks. That's really helpful. He said he would take a look at the ripcords, but never did. I think the primary reason I like the Eclipse rig is the price and the Icarus mains. I HATE the tuck tab riser covers. I'd say they come undone and try to beat me about the face on 80% of my jumps on that rig. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #45 February 9, 2005 QuoteI think the primary reason I like the Eclipse rig is the price and the Icarus mains. I HATE the tuck tab riser covers. I'd say they come undone and try to beat me about the face on 80% of my jumps on that rig. For the price, the Sigma is hard to beat. It may cost more up front, but is cheaper to maintain. It is a much nicer rig. If I was buying tandem rigs, I'd buy Sigmas w/ PD-R's and Icarus mains. I might put PD's Sigma mains in them if they lined them w/ Vectran. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverek 54 #46 February 9, 2005 QuoteI might put PD's Sigma mains in them if they lined them w/ Vectran. Why? Just curious what the benefit would be... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #47 February 9, 2005 Less bulk, less weight, less chance of bag strip. Downside they don't last as long as Dacron. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #48 February 9, 2005 Quote Less bulk, less weight, less chance of bag strip. Downside they don't last as long as Dacron. What about the Dacron's ability to stretch to take a shock? I don't believe there's been any instances of bag strip when the recommended stowing proceedures were used (tandem tube stows on the locking stows, wide tandem bands on the rest). Although I could very well be wrong.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #49 February 9, 2005 QuoteWhat about the Dacron's ability to stretch to take a shock? True, but I have a bunch of jumps on Icarus and the openings were fine. QuoteI don't believe there's been any instances of bag strip when the recommended stowing proceedures were used (tandem tube stows on the locking stows, wide tandem bands on the rest). Although I could very well be wrong. I don't know of any instances either, but witht he lighter lines, it decreases the risk (and the proper stow bands & size like you mentioned). Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kissrg 0 #50 February 9, 2005 Quote For the price, the Sigma is hard to beat. It may cost more up front, but is cheaper to maintain. It is a much nicer rig. If I was buying tandem rigs, I'd buy Sigmas w/ PD-R's and Icarus mains. I might put PD's Sigma mains in them if they lined them w/ Vectran. So would you prefer the Sigma main vs. Icarus if it was lined w/ Vectran? Is the line type so important for you or the canopies are so closed to each other? Robert Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
