I need an audible!

[justinbuss 0]

No shit, there I was ...
I was doing one of my final tests for PASA CatI and having it filmed by the jumpMaster. I completed the test, checked my alti, thought I was a bit high, gave it a few seconds checked again looked about right, and deployed. When I landed, a rather irate JM rushed up to me and asked why the hell I dumped so low!
Apparently I deployed at 2000 but as a student I'm supposed to deploy at 4000 and be open by 3500. My altitude awareness was non existant on that jump. My CI has suggested that I invest some jump money in an Audible, and that I work hard on my altitude awareness. Thank goodness he didn't ground me.
So now I need some advice from y'all. I have been told that I can get a time-out or a dytter rather cheap from some dude at the DZ, or I can get a ProDytter or a ProTrack from a local supplier.
What do you recommend I spend my cash on? What are the benefits of one type of audible over any other? What would you recommend I get?
I must be lonely ... all the faces around me are ugly

[E150 0]

Depends on money I guess. I'd get a Pro-Track if I could efford it. I can't, so, I got a Pro-Dytter instead. Its top.
If you are going to freefly you will probably want a Pro-Track and then maybe get a Dytter too.
Dont know about Time out's. Arn't they chocolate bars? yum yum ;)

[Scratch 0]

Hey Boet
I hear the weather is kak up North today.
Very useful things.....audibles.
The ground comes up quickly at 2000ft. when you have been sleeping.
Both the ProTrac and the Pro Dytter are popular.
I use a Pro Dytter simply because it is cheaper and audible altis are very pricey this side of the world.
As far as warning beeps are concerned the Pro Track works the same as the Pro Dytter so as to which one is safer, there is no difference.
The information provided by the ProTrack is interesting though and can certainly help you in your skydiving wrt fall rates and pull altitudes. It also has a handy built in logbook and a couple of other features.
So take your pick but my suggestion at this stage of your progression would be to buy the Pro Dytter and if you start freeflying etc to add the Pro Track.
You could buy an older Dytter or Time out..the Time out is nicer. The Dytter has only one warning altitude. The Time out has two or three. I am not sure as to the price of a Time Out but you should not pay more than R400 for a 2nd hand Dytter.
Pro Tracks go for around R2000 minus the computer software and Pro Dytters for around R1000.
Hope that helps
Skydive safe....skydive lots.
Andre'

[gus 1]

An audible is not a substitute for good altitude awareness. Too many people slap on an audible and never look at their alti again, it's a bad habit that could get you into alot of trouble. By all means jump with an audible but at the same time make a concious effort to use your alti.
Gus

[Scratch 0]

Ah!!! The best advice yet.
If my audible 'catches' me out I get a little annoyed with myself.
I heard a good comment once..."Pretend you work for the post office..... keep checking your watch"

[Jessica 0]

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..the Time out is nicer. The Dytter has only one warning altitude.

Um, no. My new Dytter has three warning altitudes.
I loooove my little Dytter...it cost about US $180 new, and I'm told I paid way too much. Shop around.
Pet me! I'm harmless and cute!

[mountainman 0]

You ask what to spend your money on. I am thinking an eye exam. If you looked at your alti, it looked good, and you deployed at 2000'....maybe you need some glasses or something. Is your alti confusing to you?
I am just wondering how you could have looked at your alti, thought it was correct and then deployed at 2k.
Just curious.
JumpinDuo.com...come and sign the guestbook.

[RemiAndKaren 0]

Jessica:
Dytter = old, with a knob you turn to set the one warning alti
Pro Dytter = newer with 3 altitudes and LED display (all 3 can be set)
Pro Track = same function as Pro Dytter but with logging and LCD dispaly
Time Out = oldish (but newer then Dytter) with 3 warnings, but if memory serves me right, only one altitude is changeable, and no display
Time Out evolution: basically, same as Timeout, but slimmer (allthough I'm not entirely sure of this one)
Remi
Muff 914

[R00tj00se 0]

___________________________________________________
Time Out = oldish (but newer then Dytter) with 3 warnings, but if memory serves me right, only one altitude is changeable, and no display
___________________________________________________
Only one altitude needs to be changeable - break off altitude. The 2 altitudes that should stay the same are:
(i) Hey, you should be thinking about opening (2500ft)
(ii) You should really pull a handle soon (1500ft)
Having too many changeable altitude settings will confuse the brain in a high stress situation.
Although, there is no excuse for not checking your alti.

[billvon 2,396]

>Apparently I deployed at 2000 but as a student I'm supposed to deploy at 4000 and be open by 3500. My altitude
>awareness was non existant on that jump. My CI has suggested that I invest some jump money in an Audible . . .
Yikes! I would never give such advice to a student. If you get an audible to give you altitude awareness, you'll be in very bad shape when you set it wrong, or the battery gives out, or it breaks. Your primary sense of altitude should be your eyes - they rarely fail. A visual altimeter is a good secondary source of altitude awareness, an audible comes in a distant third. Audibles are convenient, but they often don't give you any warning when they fail. (A missing or stuck needle on a visual altimeter, on the other hand, is pretty obvious.)
I would recommend you take the money you were planning on spending on the audible and make a few jumps where you do nothing but look at the ground and your altimeter. Try to learn what the ground looks like from 5000, 4000 and even 3000 feet. You will end up a safer skydiver. If, after that, you buy an audible, you're in even better shape.
-bill von

[RemiAndKaren 0]

I agree with you Root... I was just stating the facts... I never touch the bottom 2 warnings on my Pro Dytter...
Remi
Muff 914

[Geoff 0]

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Time Out evolution: basically, same as Timeout, but slimmer (allthough I'm not entirely sure of this one)

The evolution had some data logging stuff, kinda like the pro-track, BUT it had no display - you had to access all the data thru a PC.
and it's no longer available.
Geoff

[MarkM 0]

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I would recommend you take the money you were planning on spending on the audible and make a few jumps where you do nothing but look at the ground and your altimeter. Try to learn what the ground looks like from 5000, 4000 and even 3000 feet.

On the ride up make it a habit to check what the ground looks like at 3-4k. Also be checking your alt against other people alts in the plane as you climb to altitude. If there's a mechanical failure in it you may notice it then.

[markbaur 0]

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On the ride up make it a habit to check what the ground looks like at 3-4k.

I like bill von's idea of checking in freefall much better. The view from the airplane is framed (by the door, window, etc.), and usually oblique, not straight down. Good info for canopy perspective, but not a good comparison to the freefall view.
Mark

[lazerq3 0]

Its funny after reading this I didnt see one mention of the skytronic.!!!!!Just goes to show you whats best out there
jason

[skybytch 259]

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Only one altitude needs to be changeable - break off altitude.

Changed on a regular basis? I agree, only the breakoff alti needs to be changed often. But I like the option of being able to set my pull altitude at other than 2500' (on a large RW load jumpers may be told to pull at altitudes ranging from 2000-3000', and some jumpers are not comfortable with pulling lower than 3k' period), and I like the option of being able to set the flat line/decision altitude higher than 1500'
imho the best thing about the ProTrack/ProDytters is that each alert is a different tone, making it easier to tell which one is going off.
pull and flare,
lisa
--
Life is tough, but I'm tougher

[Jimbo 0]

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My altitude awareness was non existant on that jump.

Do you realize how close you were?
* At terminal and at 2K you're only about 12 seconds from the ground.
* At terminal and at 2K you're only about 2 seconds outside of the firing range of a student FXC, about 6 seconds outside the firing range of a Student Cypres, about 8 seconds outside the firing range of an Expert Cypres.
* At terminal and at 2K you've got about 7 seconds, maybe 8 to deploy a modern main canopy and live. Now, if you dump and you've got an AAD you have to deal with 2 out. If you don't you had better hope that there aren't any tall buildings or trees around.
Maybe you're thinking 6 seconds is a long time - I could have reacted, but remember this - you lost 12 seconds between 4000 and 2000, it went quick, didn't it?
At your level of experience altidude awareness should be your number one priority. Don't worry about completing your turns or docking on your instructor, worry about the planet coming up on you at 120MPH, worry about being around to jump again.

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My CI has suggested that I invest some jump money in an Audible, and that I work hard on my altitude awareness.

An audible isn't the solution to your problem. Paying attention to your surroundings is. An audible will fail, batteries die, they get lost on exit, etc... A mechanical altimeter will fail. Look down. It's been mentioned already, but spend the next few jumps looking down, and looking at your altimeter, ground, altimeter, ground, altimeter, repeat.

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Thank goodness he didn't ground me.

Thank goodness you're not dead.

[Snowflake 0]

My .02 I'm almost at 100 jumps and am just getting ready to buy an audible. The reason I've waited this long is I wanted to be sure of my AA with a visual altimeter. There is no way I wanted to become used to something telling me when to pull what if it doesn't beep (I realize the chances of this are almost nil but it could happen). I also wanted looking at my alti to become reflex. that way my Audible is a backup besides I've gotten so used to looking at my alti I don't know if I could jump with an audible and not look at my wrist even if nothing was there. A couple of suggestions first slide your alti towards your forefinger and thumb when you put it on that way you don't have to turn your wrist much (I really don't need to but I still twist my wrist a little). Second practice looking at your alti when you dirt dive that way it really gets ingrained. When I first got of student status my mentor always made me look at my alti when we were dirt diving if I forgot he would jump my shit(in a nice way....but his point was always made). a good way to practice dive flow would be point ..grips... AA ...point ...grips... AA. This is a little bit of overkill but after a while you start to get a feel for time in freefall and can adjust how often you check your alti.
Don't know if this helps but it worked for me
Blue ones
PS if the horizon starts turning green your low or so I've been told
JG

[skybytch 259]

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I'm almost at 100 jumps and am just getting ready to buy an audible. The reason I've waited this long is I wanted to be sure of my AA with a visual altimeter.

Very smart, imho. I didn't buy an audible until I had over 600 jumps, partly because I couldn't afford one, but mainly because I felt it was important to practice altitude awareness on every jump.
Now that I have one I make a point of checking my visual alti at least once during the skydive, and I'm aware of the horizon level and my "internal clock" throughout the skydive. Haven't been surprised by the audible yet; it usually goes off about when I expect it to.
pull and flare,
lisa
--
Life is tough, but I'm tougher

[fred 0]

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Yikes! I would never give such advice to a student.

I think you're misreading the advice. The instructor was (IMO) not suggesting that he get an audible to correct the altitude awareness, but suggesting that he use one in case he *does* lose awareness.
As far as I know, the audible is a backup, and sits cozily between a visual altimeter and the cypress. Assuming a single alarm (The kind that all students at my DZ have), that alarm means, "You f**ked up, pull now." At my home dropzone, if a student hears the siren, they failed the jump.
But it's better to have that alarm and pull, then to lose altitude awareness, have a cypress fail, and bounce. I do agree that using the 3-alarm versions is cheating, and could have repricussions for learning, but I'm surprised that other students are jumping without the single alarm model. It seems like a good idea to me.

[AndyMan 7]

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I think you're misreading the advice. The instructor was (IMO) not suggesting that he get an audible to correct the altitude awareness, but suggesting that he use one in case he *does* lose awareness.

Personally, I would question the wisdom of even giving this advice. In my mind, because audibles are so prone to failure (dead battery, etc) they are a luxury even more then a backup. The primary means of Altitude awareness is by looking at the ground. The secondary is looking at a visual altimeter.
Altitude awareness in a two way is one thing. Altitude awareness in a eight way where you're trying to get that last point is a whole different ball game. Until I got my audible, my third backup was the people around me. If I saw other people taking off into a track at the bottom half of a dive, I knew I screwed up. I didn't buy an audible until I stopped screwing up.
IE, I didn't buy an audible until Altitude Awareness was already drilled into my frontal cortex. A recent jump at SDC this saved me. I was doing a two way sit fly with a recent grad - 20 jumps. As luck would have it, I somehow lost my audible in freefall. I noticed it missing when it didn't go off at 5,000 - breakoff when in a sit. My point here, is that I actually noticed that it wasn't going off at 5,000 when I was trying to chase a recent grad accross the sky. The recent-grad didn't notice it was break-off time, until he saw me go belly-to-to-earth.
Most audibles have will beep at three altitudes. Break-off, Pull, and a flatline for Decision Time. While I do set the break-off altitude, I don't tend to use it much. I usually beat the audible on this one. Where I do use it is the other two. I like to set the Pull altitude so that I have an indicator of when to stop tracking and pull. I use the Flat-line Decision altitude to help me cope with a high speed malfunction.

[Scratch 0]

I was referring to the original Dytter. A block like thing with a gold analogue dial on the front. It beeps at one preset altitude.
Noah used one before he stopped jumping and took up sailing

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[skymedic 0]

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imho the best thing about the ProTrack/ProDytters is that each alert is a different tone, making it easier to tell which one is going off

I have one of the "new" time outs that are WAY thin....Mine has three very different sounds...with the last a very loud flat line.......so I found out on my pre second cutaway a few weeks back.....
marc
"...a mind stretched with new idea's will never regain its shape"

[MarkM 0]

I was thinking about getting an audible for the reasons fred laid out.
Say my pull altitude is 4k because I want to be under canopy at 3.5-ish. I'd set my first warning at 3.5 never planning to hear it. Also the other warnings might be useful if I'm dealing with a total mal.

[freeflir29 0]

"I'd set my first warning at 3.5 never planning to hear it"
Thats sort of how I use mine. I set break off at 4500 and pull around 3000. I occasionally hear my 2500 alarm as I'm swinging into the saddle. If I'm fighting a mal and hear my 1500 flat line it's now or never time...."I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"
Clay