Decibel 0 #1 May 25, 2004 I'm wondering when most people got their coach rating. I realized last weekend that I was fast approaching 100 jumps and that I didn't feel at all qualified to be coaching someone. Yesterday I realized that I was noticing things someone with about 50 jumps could do better, which was a bit of a surprise to me. Part of this is my number of jumps is a bit misleading; I've only been jumping about 6 months. I imagine there's probably other people with 100 jumps who have a lot more experience than I do. It's unlikely I'll head to another DZ to do a coaches course, and we probably won't have one until the end of summer, so I could easily end up with 150+ jumps by the time that comes around. I'm just wondering what the experience of other coaches is like leading up to their coach rating. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #2 May 25, 2004 Quote I'm just wondering what the experience of other coaches is like leading up to their coach rating. IMHO the best thing you can do to work on becoming a coach is to go through Skydive U. Your in air skills will be lightyears ahead of where they were AND if you pay close attention to how you're taught, you'll learn some really good teaching/coahing techniques.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Decibel 0 #3 May 25, 2004 QuoteIMHO the best thing you can do to work on becoming a coach is to go through Skydive U. Your in air skills will be lightyears ahead of where they were AND if you pay close attention to how you're taught, you'll learn some really good teaching/coahing techniques. I assume you mean the coaches course? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flypunk 0 #4 May 25, 2004 There are two different coaches courses, one is the standard uspa coaching course and then there is skydive u coaching course, Dave is talking bout going through the skydive u one, which teaches you more flying from what I've heard, the standard one evaluates your flying and teaches you teaching techniques. Number of jumps are only a benchmark if you dont feel ready, you proably aren't. Dont sweat it there is no need to rush it. ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #5 May 25, 2004 I agree with Dave. I took both the Skydive U Coach Certification Course, and the USPA Coach Course. The SDU course was light years beyond the USPA course. You learn more about training, air evaluation, and debriefing. Also, assuming the SDU course is the same as it was a few years ago, you get some great training on video debriefing. Oh, and with 150 jumps, don't expect to pass the SDU course (unless you are really a prodigy). I had to go back and re-do the eval jumps the next year when I had a couple hundred more jumps. You may find yourself having to take both courses to get your USPA rating, but you will be a much, much better coach for it. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #6 May 25, 2004 I was also suggesting to get a SDU Coach and go through all the moduals, it will help.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Decibel 0 #7 May 25, 2004 QuoteNumber of jumps are only a benchmark if you dont feel ready, you proably aren't. Dont sweat it there is no need to rush it. Yeah, as I mentioned last weekend I thought there was no way I was ready, then this weekend I realized I probably could offer useful advice to some of the people I'm jumping with. That's really my only incentive at this point; if I'm jumping with someone and see something they can improve on I'd like to feel confident in being able to coach them about what I saw. It seems to me that it's not quite the same offering advice to someone with 30 or 50 jumps who probably just needs a pointer here or there vs coaching someone who just got off AFF. I really want to be able to help those I jump with, but I also want to make sure I'm not inadvertently doing them a disservice. I already talked to one of our S&TA's about this and he said he'd be happy to play student for me and that as long as I'm only giving advice on what I know to be true it's not a problem, so maybe I'll just go that route for now and hold off on the rating until I'm a more seasoned skydiver. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Decibel 0 #8 May 25, 2004 QuoteOh, and with 150 jumps, don't expect to pass the SDU course (unless you are really a prodigy). I had to go back and re-do the eval jumps the next year when I had a couple hundred more jumps. You may find yourself having to take both courses to get your USPA rating, but you will be a much, much better coach for it. - Dan G Yeah, I briefly looked at the points they wanted you to be able to turn before taking the class and it certainly does look quite challenging. If I'm lucky enough to be near a tunnel sometime soon I think I'll put my $$ into that first. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #9 May 25, 2004 QuoteI was also suggesting to get a SDU Coach and go through all the moduals, it will help. Absolutely. The SDU program is great, and even just doing it as a client will help you prepare to be a better coach. You can even let your SDU coach know that you are interested in being a coach someday and have him/her go into more depth about how they conduct coaching jumps, debriefs, etc. It will be money well spend either way. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #10 May 25, 2004 Disclaimer -- I haven't worked directly with students since 1996... When I got my S/L JM rating (pre-coach days) I found that one thing I was lacking in was my awareness of what the student was doing. I'd suggest making a point of trying to remember everything you possibly can about your skydives, on every jump. Work towards being able to sit down after a skydive and tell someone you jumped with exactly what they did without watching video. That's the kind of awareness you're going to want to have be a "good" coach/instructor - and it'll help you improve your flying skills too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billo 0 #11 June 2, 2004 QuoteThat's the kind of awareness you're going to want to have be a "good" coach/instructor - and it'll help you improve your flying skills too. Decibel - I think I agree with skybytch's assessment of "when to be a coach" more than just about anything else. To me, it's not so much numbers as much as when you have complete awareness of what you and your student is doing. If you come down from a jump with a friend and remember/say things like "hey i saw you lose your gum at 8000 feet" or "you were orbiting around me clockwise after the 3rd point" or "you're having problems putting your feet on your butt on exit", well then you are probably ready for coaching. If you are overwhelmed by the jump to the point of just remembering "wow, that was a great dive, we got like what, 5 or 10 points in?" then you are probably lacking in the awareness that skybytch describes. Oh, and don't forget an important thing I didn't see anyone else mention...you gotta be SAFE!!! If you can't be safe by yourself (good tracking, altitude awareness) then you wouldn't want to be in the air with an inexperienced jumper IMO. With a new student you have to know when to get out of the dive and then know you can get to a safe distance from the student since they may not be the best tracker yet. Anyhow, just a few thoughts. I am totally not trying to discourage you from pointing out errors you see other lower jump number (or higher jump number) jumpers make. If you want to help them out and are unsure of how to tell them, ask an instructor what they think. It will only better prepare you to coach in the future. But yeah, there is no rush! I've always been a loud-mouth about what i saw others doing in the air, but it wasn't till after 500 jumps or so that i became a card-carrying loud-mouth. By then i was ready to expand my usefulness in the sport and wanted to help out my DZ. blues, b Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riddler 0 #12 June 2, 2004 QuoteWork towards being able to sit down after a skydive and tell someone you jumped with exactly what they did without watching video. This is a great assessment for a coach candidate. I've been coaching for about a year now, and for me, 90% of the freefall part of coaching is simply falling straight down, giving students a reference to fly around, and then remembering what happened so that you can give the students advice about how to improve. It doesn't require amazing flying skills, but you have to be good enough to fall straight down with a solid bearing, and maybe go catch a student if they slide a long way away. Mostly, you just have to observe and critique. Coaches seem to have the greatest impact on the ground, explaining to students what needs to be done, and what are the normal and expected details of skydiving. If you can observe in the air and teach well on the ground, you are a good candidate, IMO. I think a camera would be a useful tool as a coach (as long as it's low-profile, side-mount and you're not doing a lot of points). I don't wear one, but I think it would be useful to show the students after you've debriefed them, just to reinforce what you've already said. Plus, some of your students refuse to believe that you were falling straight down , and it's nice to be able to prove that it was them that was flying around the sky, and not you.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skr 1 #13 June 8, 2004 >Coaches seem to have the greatest impact on the ground :-) :-) There may be a better way to phrase that, but I agree. And I spend probably 75% or more of the time on how to be a good parachute jumper, it seems more relevant than freefall at that early stage. ( I didn't vote in the poll, but I started teaching and putting ( out first jump students when I had 20 jumps. Skr Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Unstable 8 #14 June 8, 2004 QuoteI realized last weekend that I was fast approaching 100 jumps and that I didn't feel at all qualified to be coaching someone. Whether or not you are or are not qualified, having this humble attitude will help make you a more effective coach - One thing I remember from my coach course, is that a Coach rating is "Permission to start learning". IMHO, those who feel that they are very Qualified or have learned most of what there is to learn, need an attitude adjustment - We all can learn something. Your heart is in the rigt Place, my friend... To back up my point, I remember When I had My coach rating for about a month, I was at the DZ working with a student on their 30 Second Delays - A very respected Instructor with Decades of Instructing Experience came up to me and after giving me some of the greatest Advice I've ever Recieved, then Told me that they saw me do something in a manner which they really liked and had never seen before, and now use this little trick on their own students... By no means am I infering that I was ahead of the curve, but as a Coach or Instructor, it is your job to learn as much as you can by watching others, and Even the most Experienced Instructors can learn by watching you - - - This is how it works, and assuming that those more experiened than you retain a degree of humility, can be a very effective way to further our sport.....=========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Unstable 8 #15 June 9, 2004 Ask Questions - as many as possible.... Who gives a Rats butt if you annoy whoever, they arn't important - What is important is that you learn as much as humanly possible =========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
billo 0 #11 June 2, 2004 QuoteThat's the kind of awareness you're going to want to have be a "good" coach/instructor - and it'll help you improve your flying skills too. Decibel - I think I agree with skybytch's assessment of "when to be a coach" more than just about anything else. To me, it's not so much numbers as much as when you have complete awareness of what you and your student is doing. If you come down from a jump with a friend and remember/say things like "hey i saw you lose your gum at 8000 feet" or "you were orbiting around me clockwise after the 3rd point" or "you're having problems putting your feet on your butt on exit", well then you are probably ready for coaching. If you are overwhelmed by the jump to the point of just remembering "wow, that was a great dive, we got like what, 5 or 10 points in?" then you are probably lacking in the awareness that skybytch describes. Oh, and don't forget an important thing I didn't see anyone else mention...you gotta be SAFE!!! If you can't be safe by yourself (good tracking, altitude awareness) then you wouldn't want to be in the air with an inexperienced jumper IMO. With a new student you have to know when to get out of the dive and then know you can get to a safe distance from the student since they may not be the best tracker yet. Anyhow, just a few thoughts. I am totally not trying to discourage you from pointing out errors you see other lower jump number (or higher jump number) jumpers make. If you want to help them out and are unsure of how to tell them, ask an instructor what they think. It will only better prepare you to coach in the future. But yeah, there is no rush! I've always been a loud-mouth about what i saw others doing in the air, but it wasn't till after 500 jumps or so that i became a card-carrying loud-mouth. By then i was ready to expand my usefulness in the sport and wanted to help out my DZ. blues, b Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #12 June 2, 2004 QuoteWork towards being able to sit down after a skydive and tell someone you jumped with exactly what they did without watching video. This is a great assessment for a coach candidate. I've been coaching for about a year now, and for me, 90% of the freefall part of coaching is simply falling straight down, giving students a reference to fly around, and then remembering what happened so that you can give the students advice about how to improve. It doesn't require amazing flying skills, but you have to be good enough to fall straight down with a solid bearing, and maybe go catch a student if they slide a long way away. Mostly, you just have to observe and critique. Coaches seem to have the greatest impact on the ground, explaining to students what needs to be done, and what are the normal and expected details of skydiving. If you can observe in the air and teach well on the ground, you are a good candidate, IMO. I think a camera would be a useful tool as a coach (as long as it's low-profile, side-mount and you're not doing a lot of points). I don't wear one, but I think it would be useful to show the students after you've debriefed them, just to reinforce what you've already said. Plus, some of your students refuse to believe that you were falling straight down , and it's nice to be able to prove that it was them that was flying around the sky, and not you.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skr 1 #13 June 8, 2004 >Coaches seem to have the greatest impact on the ground :-) :-) There may be a better way to phrase that, but I agree. And I spend probably 75% or more of the time on how to be a good parachute jumper, it seems more relevant than freefall at that early stage. ( I didn't vote in the poll, but I started teaching and putting ( out first jump students when I had 20 jumps. Skr Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unstable 8 #14 June 8, 2004 QuoteI realized last weekend that I was fast approaching 100 jumps and that I didn't feel at all qualified to be coaching someone. Whether or not you are or are not qualified, having this humble attitude will help make you a more effective coach - One thing I remember from my coach course, is that a Coach rating is "Permission to start learning". IMHO, those who feel that they are very Qualified or have learned most of what there is to learn, need an attitude adjustment - We all can learn something. Your heart is in the rigt Place, my friend... To back up my point, I remember When I had My coach rating for about a month, I was at the DZ working with a student on their 30 Second Delays - A very respected Instructor with Decades of Instructing Experience came up to me and after giving me some of the greatest Advice I've ever Recieved, then Told me that they saw me do something in a manner which they really liked and had never seen before, and now use this little trick on their own students... By no means am I infering that I was ahead of the curve, but as a Coach or Instructor, it is your job to learn as much as you can by watching others, and Even the most Experienced Instructors can learn by watching you - - - This is how it works, and assuming that those more experiened than you retain a degree of humility, can be a very effective way to further our sport.....=========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unstable 8 #15 June 9, 2004 Ask Questions - as many as possible.... Who gives a Rats butt if you annoy whoever, they arn't important - What is important is that you learn as much as humanly possible =========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
