Words of Wisdom for New Tandem Masters?

[freeflyfree 0]

I don't jump tandem, but I would like to do it in the future and threads like this one make my experience (read: too-much-time-wasted-at-the-talk-back-forum) at DZ.com a time well expent in the internet.

Great thread guys!

Felipe.

--
Blue Skies
NO FEARS, NO LIMITS, NO MONEY...
"A Subitánea et Improvísa Morte, Líbera nos, Domine."

[LawnDart21 0]

After reading the rest of the threads, it reminded me of two other things I wanted to mention. If I have a huge student getting video, in addition to wearing baggy stuff, I also "restructure" my arch with them, saying, "instead of your arms 90 degrees in a box, once we are stable I am going to straighten your arms out to the side, and we will fly like an airplane with wings. Once out there, I will place my hands flat on top of yours and we'll fly through the air together." Once the students arms are out straight, I place my hands on thiers and then if i feel we are sinking on our 140lb video flier, I apply pressure to their hands, and push down into the relative wind, and it actually can slow you down. Going too slow? Let up the pressure on thier hands, and you speed up. Its just an added little thing that makes the video's job a bit easier, and it looks cool in the video, plus the students have no idea that the "real" reason I am asking them to do this is becuase they are heavy. They don't get insulted, and the videographers job becomes easier, and they do a better video. All my vidiots have complimented the difference it makes in fall rate control with the big students. Give it a try sometime.
2nd, be wary about wearing small/tight suits to increase your fall rate for video. Your ability to control your students and your body posture are all based on the drag your jump suit creates out the door and in freefall. I have found that freefly pants and a short sleeve t-shirt give me my best control, as i like a lot of drag on my legs and not as much on my arms, as I feel it helps me cut through the relative wind in a body posture (slightly head down) which transitions down the hill nicely for me. (I've actually reached a point now where I can keep eye contact with my video person all the way down the hill and through the drogue toss.) The drag on my legs gives me my control, and my arms (without drag) make handles checks, and body repositioning quicker as I am not fighting the air as much with my arms. I'll end this with a funny story (I hope) that taught me alot about drag and jumpsuit choices. A year ago I got barfed on by a student (I've had 4 pukers in 500 tandems), and it was so bad, i actually puked right back on him (this was at about 2000ft.). So we landed and I was covered in puke, but had a back to back load, so I stripped off my jumpsuit, and left my pukey sneakers on the ground as well, and did the next tandem in shorts, a tank top and bare foot. When we left the plane, I realized for the first time how much difference a jumpsuit and sneakers really made in my flying, I was fighting myself the whole dive to stay stable and not spin, I couldn't counter my student's poor posture as well without the extra drag. I was straining my legs and arms to stay level and was amazed at how little control by body generated all by itself. Anyways, my point is just to experient with different drags of suits, pants and shirts, and find what works best for you, once you are confortable in your drag choice, then flying your body will get easier and easier under the drogue. Best of luck!

Blue ones,
Tom

[riggerrob 558]

" ... I will place my hands flat on top of yours ..."

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Reminds me of my all time scariest tandem jump. A tiny student took a death grip on the thumb of my pull hand. This was on an early Vector - with only one drogue release handle - and long before Cyrpes was invented.
The ONLY reason we survived that skydive was my superior strength.
NEVER put your hands where a student can grab them in freefall.
These days I rarely touch students outboard of their elbows.

[phoenixlpr 0]

Ive tried to imagine : thats a horror!!!

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

-Never be intimidated by your passenger. YOU must control the skydive. What that means to me is that I trust my own skills to fly me out of less-than-perfect exits. I am pretty small (5'7", 155 pounds) but I don't hesitate to take the taller, larger students. If the exit is not perfect, I simply fly out of it until I am face to earth. In my experience, the people that get into side spins are the ones too fixated on throwing the damn drogue right out the door. You need to take a bit to sort out the exit before you consider taking a flying surface (your right arm) out of the picture in an effort to get your drogue out. Personally, I rather like it when I get taken head down for a few seconds when a passenger ducks his head on me.

As tall as the original poster is, she ought not have any problem with surface area. That said, I don't use a floppy jumpsuit. I do all my tandems in a RW bootie suit. I steer with my feet/legs and really only use my hands to nail the exit and pull, or slow down the fallrate if needed to help the cameraman. If the vidiot is sinking on me, I simply fly with my hands behind my back and yell "arch" to my student. If you are tall and light and you have a similarly light passenger, then you have no business jumping a big jumpsuit. your increased appendage length more than makes up for the drag a "normal" sized person has with a larger suit.

Chuck

[boxingrrl 0]

OK-- that's at least the second time someone has mentioned flying tandems with booties. It seems like a reasonable approach to me, but I've known some folks who are against it, for reasons I'm unclear about. What would the downside of flying tandems with booties be? Can you have too much control? If you're flying big, is it the potential for too much forward input?

[AggieDave 6]

The downside, as I experienced, was too much control. That sounds funny, but the entire jump felt very very VERY twitchy and I didn't feel like I had the control that I do when I jump in my motocross pants and a t-shirt or my FF suit.

Overall, I prefer to wear my FF suit, with the baggy legs and baggy arms, I have an incredible amount of control over the fall rate and an incredible amount of control over crappy students.

Find what works for you.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[John4455 0]

My advice is that you can buy the generic bottle of Ibuprofen at CVS or Ekerds a lot cheaper than the name brand stuff.

How do ya like it Johnny?

[mfrese 0]

Booties are awesome for tandems, for the same reason they're awesome for RW: they give you extra control and power. On tandems, your legs are the primary control surfaces; arms are only there to throw the drogue, pull, and control fall rate if necessary (and to give a big thumbs-up on the video ). That being said, I've only used them a few times, mainly because they're a pain in the ass in certain aircraft (for instance King Airs).

Two things that vary a lot from DZ to DZ for a TM are aircraft and workload. When you start, remember that at MINIMUM, you'll need to have the following with you at all times:

- goggles for you
- goggles for your student
- altimeter (for you)

Depending on the DZ, student, and time of year, you may be dealing with these as well:

- jumpsuits for students
- altimeter for students
- oxygen masks (for you and students)
- over-glass goggles
- gloves (you and students, male and female, so two sizes)
- helmet/frap hat (for you and students)
- pay envelope

This all adds up to a lot of crap you have to keep track of when you're starting out, and (getting back to the point) adding putting on and taking off booties to the mix was more than I wanted to deal with. My summer suit (bearing in mind that I'm 5'10" and around 212, so speeding up fall rate is seldom a concern) is a pair of cargo pants with a big'ol cordura patch on the butt and a long sleeved T-shirt ($20 for the pants, $2 for the cordura, and they're going on three years now). For winter, the thickest Tony suit I've ever seen, bought from a friend who wanted the slowest fall-rate they could build in a hybrid RW/freefly suit. The suit actually sucks for RW AND freeflying, but works great for tandems.

As for your questions, there is no such thing as too much control when you're talking about tandems. You'll learn as you go what works best for you as far as arch, arm and leg position, and controlling exits.
So, booties are definitely a good idea, depends on your own techniques whether they're right for you.

Doctor I ain't gonna die,
Just write me an alibi! ---- Lemmy/Slash

[John4455 0]

Landing-some TI's never let their student help you flare, some do. Sometimes if I have a heavy passenger I may let them help me flare. When I do, I make sure that they aren't putting any downward pressure on the toggles, until the bottom end of the flare, when I give them the command. When I give them the command to "prepare for landing, pick your feet up" I am in full flight, arms all the way up. My hands are in the toggles holding on to the risers so they can't pull down. If they are pulling down, I am telling them "don't pull" The first and most important thing on the landing is that they pick up their feet. If they are having problems picking up their feet, I have them reach down and grab the grippers on their jump suit and pull them up.
Don't give them a false since of security. Make sure that they understand that they have to take care of their legs.
In freefall they need to tuck their legs back between yours. If they drop their knees you will wash all over the place. To correct that when it happens (and it will, usually with a small light weight person) I simply reach down and put both hands on their thighs and push and hold their legs in place, steering with my knees. On the ground before the jump, I make sure to tell them I am going to do this if they drop their knees. Make sure that they know that they are responsible for controlling their legs, freefall and landing.
Don't over tighten the leg straps, it will make it hard for them to lift their legs for landing. After the canopy opens I tell them to "slide the leg straps down" Not to loosen the leg straps, but slide them down where it is kind of like they are sitting on them as opposed to hanging from their crotch. This makes them more comfortable and helps keep their feet up for the landing.
Always smile and make it as enjoyable for them as you can. This is probably their first jump. Do you remember yours?

How do ya like it Johnny?

[Cajones 0]

I know from previous conversations, Chuck and I share a lot of the same views when dealing with tandems. We differ greatly, though, in our physique. I am 6'3" and 210lbs. My freakishly long arms are quite an aid, sometimes dealing with students.

Tandem skydiving is definitely made easier with raw strength. Sometimes, I can "muscle around" students, as well as I do flare without student assistance. It can be quite tiresome, but a professional skydiver is not only a teacher - they are an athlete. Train your body, if needed, to handle your responsibilities.

Most tandem students are simple routine. Develop a good routine and follow it - it can save you some headaches and possibly even some pain. It also frees your brain to recognize anything out-of-the-ordinary. Include every part of the skydive as part of your personal "routine" - not separate routines for suit-up, getting in the airplane, hooking-up, exit, freefall, and landing. It can seem to make your skydives boring, but it will keep you from overlooking anything important, as well as allow you to correct something out of step/sync and continue on your routine, without putting you into panic/confusion mode.

I also use a freefly suit, or pants mostly. The drag in the legs gives me a great deal of control. It also allows me to fly with only my legs, freeing my hands to manipulate a student as I need with my hands. If a student is fetal or legs out, I can drive with my legs to prevent a side-spin as a first choice over the leg-lock. Fly your body first! This is the best mode of defense. It also can be alarming to a student to be unnecessarily groped or manipulated.

There is lots more to tell - it's better told one-on-one with a good Instructor.

Remember one thing I see overlooked, all too often...

These are people; they are potential skydivers; they are potential friends; they are potentially part of our family.

Take your responsibility seriously, but don't forget to show them a little piece of how much joy we have up there. They just might come back...

- Cajones

The laws of physics are strictly enforced.

[murps2000 86]

Learn to do a quick, thorough gear check before every tandem jump. Never just strap on a tandem rig, and go skydive.

Periodically check any b-12 type snaps on your and your students' harnesses. They sometimes stick open and need to be tweaked a little with a screwdriver to close all the way. It's definitely better to catch this on the ground.

Know your handle order, emergency procedures, and gear limitations like the back of your hand, and rehearse often. Always try to have a plan.

While riding to altitude, take time to go over in your head what you would do in the event of an aircraft emergency. Be ready to make some quick and decisive calls if it ever happens.

Check handles (including drogue) when donning the rig, when you enter the aircraft, and right before exit.

If you have a bad exit, and have to take some time to attain stability for your drogue throw, or if you have any kind of freefall emergency, remember your altitude. You will be astounded at how fast it slips away when you are dealing with problems, particularly with heavy students.

Whatever you wear, make sure that it has a pocket with napkins, and breath mints in it on every jump. I had three pukers in my first 100 tandems. When you have breath mints and napkins, your puking students will think you're god. They may even tip.

Wouldn't hurt to get a hook knife, either. Lots of appendages to snag lines with on a tandem. Some places I've jumped have them on the back of the passenger harnesses, but I carry one on my jumpsuit, too.

Good luck, and have FUN! It rubs off on your students, and helps them relax.

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[murrays 0]

Rob, your post reminds me of an early incident.......Back in 1985 or early 1986, a tandem master from Montreal (I believe named Marcel Faguy) took a strong little steel worker for a tandem jump. ...drogueless and Cypres-less at that time...and the guy freaked when they left the plane. He grabbed Marcel's arms in a death grip. Marcel was screaming at him, biting him on the neck and fighting to get his arms free. He finally managed to get an arm free to pull and was open very low.

Scary stuff. I never let them get their hands anywhere near mine after that. I preferred to have them hold their harness and keep their hands there.

But, that was a long time ago. This summer will mark the 20th anniversary of my first tandem jump at the Canadian Nationals in Gananoque, ON. Bill Booth brought a rig up to show it to everybody and I did one jump as a passenger. My comment in my logbook:"After thinking about this, I think it is the way of the future." (Once in a while ya get something right.)

The next summer my old friend Beaker and I bought a rig and started doing tandems. We knew nothing compared to the knowledge base out there now....but it was a lot of fun.

Best advice to new tandem masters...learn from the experienced people, avoid complacency and have a BLAST!!!

--
Murray

"No tyranny is so irksome as petty tyranny: the officious demands of policemen, government clerks, and electromechanical gadgets." - Edward Abbey

[Falko 0]

Quote

[...] drogueless and Cypres-less at that time...and the guy freaked when they
left the plane. He grabbed Marcel's arms in a death grip. Marcel was screaming at him, biting
him on the neck and fighting to get his arms free. He finally managed to get an arm free to
pull and was open very low.

I've heard a very similar story, where the TI even bit the students ear off, but still
couldn't get his hands free. They went in, and after that incident a big discussion about
mandatory cypres for tandems came up. Maybe just another urban legend???

Ich betrachte die Religion als Krankheit, als Quelle unnennbaren Elends für die menschliche Rasse.
(Bertrand Russell, engl. Philosoph, 1872-1970)

[riggerrob 558]

....................................................................

But, that was a long time ago. This summer will mark the 20th anniversary of my first tandem jump at the Canadian Nationals in Gananoque, ON. Bill Booth brought a rig up to show it to everybody and I did one jump as a passenger. My comment in my logbook:"After thinking about this, I think it is the way of the future." (Once in a while ya get something right.)

......................................................................

That was the same time as m first tandem: strapped to the front of Rob Laidlaw.

[Becca 0]

The advice you are getting from all these experienced TM's is great. I am a female TM built probably similar to you 5'10 150. The best advice I can give is fly your body. Then it does not (normally) matter what the student is doing under you. With as much span as I've got, freefall has mostly been a breeze. I do wear a tight suit w/booties when I get video because I have a very slow fall rate, I also get all the little tiny spinner girls on AFF, go figure. Video men do say I fall slow so I try to to help a bit by flying with my legs and keeping my arms in. But all that stuff you will learn pretty quick on your own without much trouble.

The absolute best thing I can tell you is start pumping iron. The hardest thing for me to do was flare that damn canopy when I had a 200 lb dude pass out on me. After a few times of being hosed by your student on landing but still needing their help for the flare will make you re-think the whole TM thing, it least it did me. Now I was by no stretch a weakling but the fact is women do not have upper body strength like men do and flaring a 350+ sq ft canopy with 200 lbs plus your own weight is a plain out bitch. Even after working out and a few hundred tandems I could still only do about 5 or 6 a day and then I could no longer flare without help from the student. So I can not express that part enough...Work out... Good Luck and Have fun.

Becca

[Gary73 8]

Lots of good advice above. Hopefully here's a little more:

1. Wider is better. Modify your exit arch so that your arms and legs are as wide as possible side-to-side. Tandems rarely flip, but often roll.
2. If you've rolled past the 60 degree point and are still going, you're not going to stop it on this pass. Barrel roll through the roll, and stop it on the next pass.
3. Don't be in a panic to get the drogue out the instant you clear the plane; sooner is better than later, but get solidly stable first.
4. Don't outfight them, outfly them. I've never tried to force a student into an arch, and haven't had to throw the drogue to get stable since I was a newbie, and didn't know the stuff above.
5. Limit yourself to two or three Tandems a day for the first fifty jumps or so. It's like packing: at first it's strenuous because you're doing things inefficiently, but with practice, without even realizing it, you become more efficient, so the same end result is achieved with much less effort.
6. Every student is different, and the same behavior can have different causes. A student may be talkative because thay're always talkative, or because they're nervous. Liikewise with the quiet ones. Try to adjust your approach to the student.
7. Keep a barf bag in your jumpsuit or QUICKLY accessible on the plane.
8. I always let my students "help" with the canopy flying and landing. I've sometimes regretted it, but I figure it's part of the whole teaching experience. Besides, if the landing isn't too good, they'll probably blame themselves.
9. Learn to do a good slide-in landing. They're not as elegant as a good standup, but they're a LOT more elegant (and safer) than a bad standup.
10. Get large cordura patches on your jumpsuit knees and butt, and add some padding inside the knees.
11. In cold weather, you can put two jumpsuits on slender students to act as extra insulation. (The skinny ones lose body heat faster.) Also, don't forget gloves for the student in cool weather. I've heard plenty of instructors say "They'll be so excited they won't notice the cold.". Not true; just ask the students.
12. On a slide-in landing, don't get your legs under the student. They can get all twisted up and broken down there.
13. Wear a helmet, and have your student do the same. Even if you don't bump into anything, it protects your chin, helps hold goggles in place (especially over-the-glasses goggles), and keeps their hair under control.
14. Every landing approach is different, since each student has a different weight. Set up for final approach fairly high, then S-turn or sashay to lose any extra altitude.
15. Land safe, not close. The worst landing I've ever made was my fault, but was contributed to by the other T-Is making fun of my not wanting to land too close to the tarmac. Throw in a 180-degree wind change on final approach and a newbie at the controls, and it wasn't pretty. Don't let ANYONE push you into something you're not comfortable with.
16. Have fun and don't let them work you so hard that you get burned out. If you feel that coming on, take a break, even if you have to take a weekend off and jump at another DZ.

Gary
AFF-I, T-I (1100 Vector Tandem jumps)

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." - Carl Sagan

[riggerrob 558]

8. I always let my students "help" with the canopy flying and landing. I've sometimes regretted it, but I figure it's part of the whole teaching experience. Besides, if the landing isn't too good, they'll probably blame themselves.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Keeping students' hands on toggles and talking them through turns reduces anxiety and surprises - like their breakfast coming back up.
Oh, and flatly refuse to jump with students who have skipped breakfast. Empty stomachs are far more queezy. Most of the students who have hurled on me skipped breakfast.

[boxingrrl 0]

This whole thread has been terrific! Thanks to every one of you for passing along your knowledge and experience. I think I might print it out and sleep with it under my pillow-- maybe it'll all sink in.

I really do appreciate your time and feedback. Blue skies and soft landings, Robin

[skylord 1]

Wow!

I had my first jump as a tandem back in late May, 2003. So I've only got a newbie perspective. I listened/watched very closely, and Doug (since he has over 13,000 jumps) made some adjustments to our tandem exit. I was to arch immediately on exit, and look for the wing. I found out I wasn't supposed to even touch the bar at the top of the door. Hands on the harness, exit, arch immediately, and the dive went great.

I've had the great honor of doing two AFF dives with Doug afterwards. Now, by way of feedback.

Us tandems are all potential AFF students. We wouldn't try it unless we thought we'd love the experience. If you are nervous, this will be the only jump we do in our lives. I understand that people go unstable or fetal. Doug never talked about that with me prior to our jump. When he hooked up to me, he was VERY reassuring, VERY calm. We got in the door, and out we went. I tensed up, and fell like plywood initially, but I did relax after about two seconds. I think that is normal.

I CANNOT overstate the impact a TM has on a first or new time jumper. I know people panic, but for goodness sake, leaping into two miles of air is not instinctual. The education in advance of something so counter-intuitive is priceless. "Hey, we're going to be really high, the wind will be blowing super hard, and it is all OK. Just relax."

Sorry to wander a bit, but I never, ever, did anything on my tandem dive that caused any concern since Elsinore prepared me so well on the ground.

Have a great experience as a TM, and always remember you are the real door to a new life for us newcomers.

Bob

Bob Marks

"-when you leave the airplane its all wrong til it goes right, its a whole different mindset, this is why you have system redundancy." Mattaman

[jimoke 0]

this was a very good thread. something that was mentioned mints and puking. please remember: nobody is immune to having horrible stank breath........don't let this be what your student remembers most about thier TI. also early morning tandems with alcohol breath from the bonfire 6 hours earlier is not the way to instill confidence......the smell doesn't leave with just a brushing.
sleeping in the plane with a tandem student is un-acceptiable but I have seen it countless times at numorous dz's. if you are drowzy take a nap on the ground, not with your student wondering about the TI being grogy.
never use poor attempts at humor to relieve tention...... ex. asking who will go last? you've heard of dead last?.....believe it or not, I have heard instructors say this to thier students. or Boy, I sure hope we make it this time.
I have over 75% of my jumps involved with tandems either video or as pilot. it is their jump.......you are in control.
as for the videoguy, he is responsible for having range. I am 280 lbs exit weight and I am able to fly with light tms and tiny students. my wing suit is just shy of a birdman suit......but you must dress for success. fast fallrate has never been my issue.
a professional TM can help with heading and smiling and such, I would never ask a TM to change his jumpsuit to suit my needs. most would say learn to fly.
I have made several jumps with a female tandem candidate, Kath Ax from hollister. chicks rock, thats why we love them!
Stay Safe,
jimOke

The ground always, remembers where you are!

[brettpobastad 0]

Be careful who you let swoop your tandem. Better yet, stay away from it altogether until you gain experience. You will be pressured from your friends as well as those of the your students. Especially if either one of you is cute.

DO NOT ATTEMPT TO SWOOP A TANDEM CANOPY! It's not necessary. The student gets nothing out of it. You drastically reduce your margin of error. It's the equivalent of the fat, bald guy in the Corvette.

Don't try to stand up a landing unless you are sure it will work. A well executed butt slide looks infinitley more graceful then the 'Swoop Kirwin tuck-and-roll'

[DanglesOZQld 0]

1) Don't hang off aircraft and have the pilot cut you off - Makes you infamous NOT famous!

2) Do put limits on yourself , especially for the early jumps. Weight and height are two examples. Learn to say no until you are comfortable to do more. If the operation you are working for is reasonable they will not have a problem with this.

3) Don't be afraid to spend some time with the students with the briefing and stay in control insofar as having their attention wherever possible for the whole brief. Things such as non jumping friends and cameras/bag distractions can hinder a good brief. Never sound like you are saying the same thing as the last person you took for a tandem. Try to remember that this will probably be the first skydive this person has had and put yourself in their shoes.

4) You WILL have tandem passengers try and kill you - learn from your mistakes and/or seek the advice of those that have been there and done that many more times than you in the same way as you would seek advice from people more experienced than you with your own solo gear jumps. YOU HAVE NEVER DONE ENOUGH JUMPS TO BE UNABLE TO LEARN MORE!

5) DO jump for fun as often as possible. When there is no one else around we often chase a tandem out that has video and lurk a little making the video look a little different. We stay in the background but appear to one side now and then for a different perspective.

6) If you are a Tandem Master who has not done video jumps before try and take on some of the advice of the video guys and girls. Basically though do not adjust the way you throw the drogue or any part of the Tandem jump you are not comfortable with to suit them. I have done both and think that a good camera person should be capable of all levels of freefall speed and you should not have to be dictated by them as to what to do on every jump to suit them. Certainly if you can do little things to help do so , such as not being "big" with a smaller passenger and facing the sun after drogue throw and the like.

BSBD! -Mark.

"A Scar is just a Tattoo with a story!!!"

[riggerrob 558]

Quote

Be careful who you let swoop your tandem. Better yet, stay away from it altogether until you gain experience. You will be pressured from your friends as well as those of the your students.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

As with exhibition jumps, most of what impresses skydivers (i.e. turf surfing) is lost on the general public.
For example, a long turf surf may impress skydivers, but the audience reaction will be "that clutz missed the target."

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[jerradob 0]

pull high ( i pull at 5 especially with HC) you still have alot of stuff to do besides get stable and throw.oh and lots and lots of situational awareness.