Words of Wisdom for New Tandem Masters?

[boxingrrl 0]

What've you learned the hard way? And, any particular advice for women as tandem masters?

Thanks so much!

***Experience is something you get just after you need it***

[crutch 0]

Quote

What've you learned the hard way?

The first thing I learned the hard way is it is the smaller people that you think won't be a problem are. I have been in a number of side spins (if you ever get a chance, watch Bill Morissy's video), everyone of them was with someone less than 145 lbs. I honestly think I was too confident that a small person couldn't do anything to upset the apple cart.

Second, if you exude confidence, your students will be much more relaxed with you which translates very easily into an easier skydive for you. But, don't ever confuse confidence with cockiness.

Third and foremost have fun with it! You will hear more absurd, funny and wild quotes from people than anywhere else in your life. Almost all of these will happen within about 10 seconds of the canopy opening. I use to have a mini tape recorder attched to the tandem harness, if I was into blackmail, I am sure I could have made a ton of money.

Finally, never, ever ever take someone you are not comfortable with. Not only size wise but attitude or demeanor wise. Neither one of you will have fun and you will begin to wonder why you even do tandems.

As far as women doing tandems, don't take this wrong, but there is quite a bit more strength required than a "normal" skydive. So just be prepared for it.

blue skies,

art

[peek 20]

Quote

What've you learned the hard way? And, any particular advice for women as tandem masters?

Starting with some humor, I have a long time ago that there is a certain male segment of the population that as a Tandem student would much rather go with a woman because they don't want to be strapped to a man with their booty so close!

Now, to continue with a comment from the other thread. You are right, you don't want to be trying to muscle your way in or out of anything unless absolutely necessary, which is usually isn't.

Bill Morrissey from Strong Enterprises did the now famous study about the "side-spin" phenomenon, and determined that it was caused by instructors trying to arch to get stability when the student still had their kness down- it made things worse.

First and foremost, figure out how to get your student in the correct body position, and the rest takes care of itself. Do this mainly by getting to know the student and making them feel comfortable with you.

Hell, you are stapped tightly enough to your student that you can feel when they are tense, so then do something to relax them. :)

Most students (of any training method) will react quite positively to your noticing that they are tense right before exit, and reminding them to relax. With a Tandem student you can just feel them relax. (Some of them even laugh at themselves because they realize they were not relaxed.)

As to your size?

Many years ago when I had done only a small number of Tandem jumps, I went to a DZ I had not been to and did some Tandems. I met a guy that I knew from the Symposium, and he was on the small side.

A bunch of Tandem students walked in, and one was very big. We all commented on this and acted like we would prefer not to take him. All of us except my aquaintance, the smaller instructor.

He said "I'd rather take big guys. Once you get them in a good arch, it's like having a belly-wart (front mounted reserve for you youngsters), it just pulls you stable without you hardly trying."

I was in awe of this guy because I didn't understand that at the time, but now I do. I had so few Tandem jumps at that time that I was concentrating on me instead of the student.

I look at videos of some of my early Tandems and am appalled, they look so bad. Not dangerous, but not relaxed either.

Take care of your student and they will take care of you.

By the way, your friends can help. Where I jump, the whole airplane full of people do things to make the students laugh and relax. We hand out mints, stating, "sorry, no flight attendant", etc. The video people are very good to do things right before exit to get them to smile.


(In case that reference to "side-spin" prompts any conversation, I suggest another thread. It could get long!)

[skybytch 259]

Random stuff -

As Gary said, you'll jump with more than a few guys who would much rather have a woman strapped that tight to the back of them than a man. You'll also jump with more than a few women who are uncomfortable with having a strange man strapped to them (or their SO is uncomfortable with the idea; seen that more than once).

Also mentioned above, be picky about who you jump with. Set your limits - in student size, number of jumps per day, wind and weather conditions, etc - and stick to them. As you gain more experience you can stretch those limits.

"Exude confidence" - yeah, definitely. You don't have to feel it, but you can make the student believe you do.

Talk to your students in the airplane. About the skydive, about them, about you, tell them a funny story about the camera guy or another experienced jumper on the plane, whatever. Encourage your friends to include your students in the high fives/finger slaps before exit.

Hopefully the aircraft you're jumping from has benches... imho benches make doing tandems a lot easier on your body.

Do your practice touches on every skydive.

Side spins... watch the Strong tape, learn the technique and trust that it will work if you get into one. Worked for me on the one I had... scary shit.

Regarding your size - I'm 5'8" and was about 140 when I was doing tandems. I liked taking people who were close to my size best. I took a couple of guys over 6 feet and people over 200 pounds and found both to be not much fun.

But. I know a female tandem instructor in Perris who's about 5'4" - little! She'll take anyone. She swears by booties, flies mostly with her legs.

Always remember that a tandem isn't just another skydive.

[AggieDave 6]

Something that may help you, is to do some weight training specifically for being a TM.

For instance, I rear-riser my tandems around the sky after opening 99% of the time, so I'm into the wind and such while I take care of other things (the student, etc). I knew a TM that couldn't even turn the canopy with a rear risers, which takes away another tool in your toolbox.

Also, you'll find that if you do 10 tandems in a day, you might have problems flaring the last one, unless you're a gym/lifting junky. There are some specific excersizes that can help a lot with that.

If you're not going to worry about that and you're going to have the student help you fly the canopy, know this. There WILL be a student that you do not want touching the toggles, that you will want to fly alone. Trust me.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

Bill Morrissey from Strong Enterprises did the now famous study about the "side-spin" phenomenon, and determined that it was caused by instructors trying to arch to get stability when the student still had their kness down- it made things worse.

Definately! Also if the do the same thing with their arms, but staggered, its much harder to control and it will dump you to a sidespin on exit. As I found out. Another thing I learned on that jump is, after 5,000ft of fighting, trying to get it right, if you're drogue side up...FIDO, toss it. Its the shitty thing to do, but it'll save your butt.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[crutch 0]

Quote

Another thing I learned on that jump is, after 5,000ft of fighting, trying to get it right, if you're drogue side up...FIDO, toss it. Its the shitty thing to do, but it'll save your butt.

I guess I have been in one too many, I throw the drogue on the second or third time around. Let things settle down and then deal with what ever else may have arisen. As far as shitty thing to do, saving you and your passenger has never been considered shitty to me.

blue skies,

art

[AggieDave 6]

Its not that, its that I saw it as a failure to have properly flown/control my student and I felt I like I had to use the drogue to get stable. I know that I had to do it, since I did want to live and I'm sure the student did, even though he was trying to kill us.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[LawnDart21 0]

I have found that taking bigger students (taller and heavier) are actually an easier ride than the small/light ones. I am 6'0" tall, 190lbs, and I have found that these students fall the most stable and are the best to have under canopy in turbulent wind conditions on landings. The only down side of course is not popping my eyes out while I flare. It takes some extra effort, but that little extra effort on landing is worth a nice stable ride in freefall. My one piece of advice would be the overall shape of your student, rather than thier weight and size. Students with high body fat percentages, regardless of weight, don't fit in the harness as well. simply put, the leg straps need tension, and legs with higher body fat, tend to be "mushy" and the leg straps are more apt to slide around, loosen, etc. The other thing is round students (not trying to be rude), but I've seen students with large midruffs put in a harness that has the belly band riding way low, and the chest strap just under their neck to fit around them. Its not comfortable for either the student or the TM in those situations. Every tandem is rewarding in its own way, whether its a large person, somall person, heavy person, thin person, I always feel a sense of accomplishment to put them down softly in the peas. All in all though, my best tandem student was 6'4", 240lbs. We fell like an anvil, nice and stable.

Blue ones, Tom

[jdthomas 0]

Boxingrrl
I am a smaller TM, I am 5'6 and a whole 130 pounds, not a big guy at all and I find that I can do any size tandem out there, I prefer the smaller passengers but have taken all of them.
We use cessna 182 and I do a poised exit, it's a little harder on the back, but they are flat and stable as soon as I leave the plane!
There are so many little tricks that will just come with time, and because it works for that TM it may not be your thing. so only time will help you.
Simple things lie leaving a little play in the harness, not so tight on the lower hook ups seems great to me.. I used to snug that all the way down.
One major draw back to my small size is that upon landing the passenger if tall can really screw us by jabbing at the dirt for landing, they have to pick there feet up really far..
Its fun though, but endurance is a major problem for me, I just am not physically strong.. so do what you can and no more if you are not so strong.
and as everyone else says, watch that side spin video.. man those suck!

Little Joe

www.greenboxphotography.com

[TALONSKY 0]

I am still a newbie Tandem instructor but I did learn one very important lesson on my second live tandem. If after opening you have ANY doubt about the condition of your main make a couple of attempts to fix and if that does not work GET RID OF IT. I opened to tension knots on the right side and a 5000 feet AGL it was a very minor turn to the right which was easy to correct. I did a couple CCC and the canopy was fine. At 1000 feet AGL the turn to the right was much worse I let up for a second to give my left arm a small break and we immediately went horizontal to the ground in a spiral. I was barely able to correct and land it. A mistake I will never make again. Secondly always Keep all your options open.
Kirk

[riggerrob 558]

Quote

I have found that taking bigger students (taller and heavier) are actually an easier ride than the small/light ones. I am 6'0" tall, 190lbs, and I have found that these students fall the most stable and are the best to have under canopy in turbulent wind conditions on landings. The only down side of course is not popping my eyes out while I flare. It takes some extra effort, but that little extra effort on landing is worth a nice stable ride in freefall. My one piece of advice would be the overall shape of your student, rather than thier weight and size. Students with high body fat percentages, regardless of weight, don't fit in the harness as well. simply put, the leg straps need tension, and legs with higher body fat, tend to be "mushy" and the leg straps are more apt to slide around, loosen, etc. The other thing is round students (not trying to be rude), but I've seen students with large midruffs put in a harness that has the belly band riding way low, and the chest strap just under their neck to fit around them. Its not comfortable for either the student or the TM in those situations. Every tandem is rewarding in its own way, whether its a large person, somall person, heavy person, thin person, I always feel a sense of accomplishment to put them down softly in the peas. All in all though, my best tandem student was 6'4", 240lbs. We fell like an anvil, nice and stable.

Blue ones, Tom

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Exactly!

[riggerrob 558]

boxingrrl,

You did not mention your size or type of airplane ....
If you tell us what type of airplane you use, I can give some specific advice on exits.
For example, I quit doing poised exits from Cessnas after bending a reserve pin more than a decade ago.


You will quickly find that you cannot "muscle" students all day long. The sooner you learn to "talk" them around the better.
I start with a bit of banter in the gear-up room: how many skydives I have, yada, yada.
Then I surprise them by grabbing the hip joints on their harness and lifting them off the floor. Not much muscle required, just a lot of technique. This trick tells them that I am in command from the get-go!
This trick works the best on guys 4 inches taller and 80 pounds heavier than me, because no-one has lifted them off their feet in decades!
Hee! Hee!
And big guys do make the best students, because they know - at their core - that their mistakes can kill us both!
By that same logic, tiny women make the worst students, because they believe that I can solve every problem they can throw at me. To date, I have solved every problem tiny women have thrown at me, but that was more luck than management.

Hint: keep your hands well outside their reach.

To that end, we like to start new T/Ms out with medium-sized students.

Clint Eastwood: "A man has got to know his limitations."
Set personal standards - slightly higher than written standards - and stick with them.

Like earlier posters said: the key is keeping them relaxed in the airplane. Remind them to breath on jump run, because they can focus on fear or breathing, but not both at the same time.
I also like to use wiggly fingers as a signal to relax. Again, they can concentrate on tensing big muscles of small muscles, but not both at the same time.
The more you talk to them, the more they will relax.

[PhreeZone 15]

I jump at the same DZ as Robin and probally 97%+ jumps are going to be CASA or Twin Otter Tandems. I've got about 50 tandems now and I've never done one out of a plane at the DZ smaller then the Otter.

I was taught the Step backwards method and the 270 flip off the ramp and I'm thinking her husband taught her the same. The Otter I was shown a poised, but I've asked about other types in the past here and got great answers.

On working jumps I usually have my hand over the left release in case they don't pull, but what is every one elses pull techinque on jumps that the students pulls on? On fun tandems I'll switch every other pull to avoid getting a habit formed.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

I've got about 50 tandems now and I've never done one out of a plane at the DZ smaller then the Otter.

You're missing out on the pleasure and joy of doing a tandem out of a 182. Its not hard, infact its really easy to get the student hooked up and tightened down when you're on your knees behind them.

It makes you decent at your diving exits, that for sure!

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[mfrese 0]

Well Robin, since you've decided to become a tandem instructor, we already know you're insane, so we can start from there

Seriously, after reading through the rest of the responses, and with my 500 jumps experience on Vector II and Eclipse systems (with a Sigma passenger harness), here are my tips:

- Learn to read your student. Having some insight into their frame of mind during training and the ride to altitude can pay huge dividends in the air.

- Spend 10 seconds in the minute prior to exit telling your student to take a few deep, calming breaths and get ready to skydive. The breathing helps them calm down, and gives then enough O2 to get them through the first 30 seconds of freefall in case they forget to breath

- Little people are the worst, big people are better. I have taken a range of people from 4'10", 90 lbs to 6'7" and 250 lbs, and the 4'10" woman was the one I had to work hardest at out of 500 tandems. Larger people who perform well are the best; larger people who brain-lock or drop knees are hard to control.

- If you feel the relative wind in your face, THROW THE DROGUE! Can't speak for the rest of the folks here, but when you watch the sidespin video, look for the points where the TMs should have thrown the drogue but didn't...very sobering experience. You'll feel more comfortable with this as you get more experience, but don't wait too long to get the drogue out.

- Set your personal limits, and explain them to the DZO. If you do this for a while, and at different places, your limits may cost you some jumps...big deal. NEVER let a DZO pressure you into making a jump you're not comfortable with, and the reasons may be too windy, SUI (Student Under the Influence), tired from the heat and too many jumps, not enough water, whatever. If you don't feel comfortable with yourself, the student, or the conditions, SAY NO!

- Be prepared to land by yourself. I personally have never let a student help me flare, and probably never will. (One DZ I work at doesn't even allow the option...they have single toggles on the main and flare toggles.) You never know when people are going to freeze on you, but I imagine having it happen at 20 feet in mid-flare would really suck...

- As AggieDave pointed out, it never hurts to train for tandems. Lat pulldowns or chinups, general shoulder training (particularly rotator cuff exercises) to keep them in shape, and tricep pressdowns are a good start. They'll all help you flare better, no matter the size of your student.

- Be confident, and more importantly, SOUND confident. I've been in really hairy off-DZ landing with tandems three times, and every time the student said they weren't worried, because I sounded "so confident they didn't think there was anything to worry about". I sounded like this while the inner me was screaming "AAAHHHHH!!! WHAT THE FUCK AM I GONNA DO!!!", which is why you've got to sound good, too.

- Lastly...HAVE FUN! Tandems are serious business, but like we tell the students, it IS OK to have fun. The best jumps I've ever had were when the student, the videographer and I all had so much fun in the air it just soaked into the video AND the stills. That's probably why you'll end up sticking with tandems (or not)...the fun, not the money (which of course is marginal under the best of circumstances).

Sorry to be so long-winded, hope it helps, good luck with the tandems!

Doctor I ain't gonna die,
Just write me an alibi! ---- Lemmy/Slash

[boxingrrl 0]

Wow-- everyone has been sharing some great stuff! I have seen the side-spin video (my husband is the TI/E, so we have our very own copy). That does concern me a bit, but I guess, like the rest of skydiving, you train for it, recognize it and deal with it.

I will mostly be exiting out of a CASA or Otter, but will probably get a 206 tandem in now and again. What was that about bent reserve pins?

How do you fly with video? I'm concerned that I'm going to be super-floaty. My suit is big-- control surface-- and I'm pretty tall (5'11" or so). How much do you adjust for videographers or do you just make 'em fly their butts off? I've really only video'd a small pool of tandem masters, and some were definitely easier than others. Suggestions?

[PhreeZone 15]

I personally enjoy making you have to jump the wings to film me

I've worked with a limited amout of video staff, but on the tandem I've found hard arching can help on the fall rate if I see the videographer with the wings all the way out to stay level. Also dressing for the jump helps. I won't screw the video people over when I've got a tiny girl by staying baggy, I'll get something faster on to help out. On the other hand if I've got a guy thats 240 and shaped like a bowling ball, I'll dress him and me in something baggy to try and slow us down a bit. My protrack keeps the speeds and there is a 7-10 difference sometimes.

Robin, look me up at the DZ about my spare Freefly and spare RW suits. Both were made for me when I was your size and I can't hardly wear them anymore.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[LouDiamond 1]

Quote

How do you fly with video?

Don't worry about the camera man,he will do what he needs to do to stay with you. You concentrate on that Tandem master thing. The only thing I ask a tandem master to do is give me the L hand signal if he thinks we are long so I can pull a bit higher.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[PhreeZone 15]

She's coming from a video background so I think that might be why that was thought of. Shes shot video of me a few times so she's been around the worst already

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[boxingrrl 0]

Now, Eric, I wasn't going to name any names... But seriously, you are not even close to being the worst.

Part of my concern comes from being a vidiot, but I want my students to get awesome videos, too. It's good to hear that I don't have to worry about it too much.

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

Part of my concern comes from being a vidiot, but I want my students to get awesome videos, too

Well, with your size, you'll probably end up jumping in a jumpsuit that isn't too baggy...

In my experience, the biggest things that you can do to help a vidiot out for the video (and help your student get a kickass video) is to point into the sun once you've got the drogue out and good to go (as you most likely know) and to pay attention to your student's head. If they're looking down, put your hand on their head and pull it back up.

Something else I do, when a student is getting video, after my training talk, I tell them "and most importantly, smile, remember you're paying for a video so lets try to make it the best we can. I know you'll want to look at the ground, but try to keep your head up for the camera. Don't worry about the ground, it'll be there, we haven't missed it yet." Obviously I say that playfully with a big smile, as well.

Oh, as long as we're talking about videos. Something I do is wear mirrored sunglasses. That takes my eyes out of the video, which makes me a little less like a person, so that when they watch the video, the student sees themselves and not my eyes. I'm also very concious to have a huge grin/smile on my face when I'm doing a tandem (which isn't hard, I LOVE doing tandems)!

Good luck! Its fun, its very rewarding on the personal level to introduce people to skydiving, but remember, its not just another skydive.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[tombuch 0]

My suggestions:

1) Make non-working fun jumps. Tandems can become a grind, and then a rotten job. Don't let yourself get trapped. Keep making skydives for fun with nobody paying you for the honor.

2) Teach on every tandem. Even try teaching on those "I just want a ride" jumps...especially teach on those jumps. It doesn't need to be much, but provide every student with some level of accomplishment.

3) Do your handle touches on every single tandem. If it's a routine skydive your mind will tend to wander, so use those moments to think through unusual tandem situations. Remember, a tandem is never "just another skydive."

Tom Buchanan
Instructor (AFF, SL, IAD, Tandem)
S&TA
Author JUMP! Skydiving made Fun and Easy

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[riggerrob 558]

I will mostly be exiting out of a CASA or Otter, but will probably get a 206 tandem in now and again. What was that about bent reserve pins?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

In the early days, we did a lot of things that we don't do anymore.
For example, I was taught to do poised exits from Cessna 182, 205, 207 and Pilatus Porter.
The disadvantage with poised exits is that it takes several extra minutes of ground school to convince students that when they lift their feet off the step, they will not do a face-plant on the wheel.
Since poised exits are uncomfortable for students, they try to stand upright on the step. If the student is big and strong, he can squeeze his instructor hard up against the underside of the wing. If you move IN ANY WAY while jammed against the underside of the wing, you risk dislodging or bending a reserve pin.
I quit doing poised exits after bending a reserve pin 14 years ago.

Now I only do sitting exits from Cessnas, but that is another whole lecture.

As for exits from tailgates, I have done a bunch of diving exits from Skyvans, but am most comfortable facing the pilots for exits and getting stable in the first second after exit!
The fewer the chances for rotation - about any axis - the fewer the chances of a side-spin.

[crutch 0]

Quote

Something else I do, when a student is getting video, after my training talk, I tell them "and most importantly, smile, remember you're paying for a video so lets try to make it the best we can. I know you'll want to look at the ground, but try to keep your head up for the camera. Don't worry about the ground, it'll be there, we haven't missed it yet." Obviously I say that playfully with a big smile, as well.

Dave hit the head right on the money here. I always tell them that if you look straight down the only thing you see is this airport which is just a lot of asphalt. Lots of things to see out there, you just need to hold your head up to see them.

As far as helping video people out, it kinda depends on the rig you are jumping. Vector II's need to have the legs all the way up and arms out in front to make them sit up slightly for the better video angle. The Sigma's fly pretty flat. The Strong and Jumpshack rigs actually do the best at getting the heads up at a better angle for the video (these are all my experience with these rigs, others may vary).

The biggest thing you can do is to read how the video guy is flying. If he is all stretched out and struggling, tighten up, arch harder and fall faster. If he is arching like a son of a bitch, spread out and slow down. Also talk to the video person every jump about hand signals and angles that the video person may be looking for, remember, it usually is a team effort when you get a great video!

blue skies,

art