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John_snurkowski

belly wart landings

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I love jumping my nostalgic gear. on my stylemaster i can choose as a reserve a t10r, a national triconi(not phantom. i think its older than them), or i was considering getting a strong lopo. I am looking for opinions from you old farts that have jumped these parachutes. as you can tell from the title, the landings scare me. I really have no experience on any rounds except the paracommander and a sierra. so, what parachute do i want?

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Of course there are many other canopies available. Forget the 24' T10r no matter what you weigh. Strong or other Lopos, National 28' Aerostar, Preserve I, Butler LoPo. Of couse Butler doesn't sell them for sport use.

Make sure you have a full stowage diaper, mesh cover modifications, and big enough for you. And, most important practice PLF's from 6' forward and backwards. I landed an old Phantom 28 as a main at a load of about 250lbs. And walked away. But I hit the pea gravel and know how to PLF well. :)

New one pin flat chest containers with a PC that uses the same spring as a Vector PC are available, BTW.

Tell us what you weigh and we can tell you how much to worry. :P I almost stood up a Phantom 24 when I weighed 175, and landing lopos at 180 is easy.
I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

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H John,

Quote

I am looking for opinions



Terry has some good advice.

You will not get a T10R canopy in a StyleMaster reserve container.

The TriCon was built by Pioneer; and you do not want to land one of those.

A Strong Lo-Po is a good canopy; but they are getting old.

If it were me, I would opt for a FreeFlight Preserve I. Newly built,full diaper, etc.

Jerry Baumchen

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There was a Pioneer Tricon as Jerry says, but also an NAA Conical. Maybe you were thinking of one of them?

Strong LoPo's are nice. They may not be an ideal modern round with slider reefing or anything like that, but they're still relatively available, a decent design still in production*, and not a super lightweight reserve like the Phantoms.

Landings do vary a lot with the surface winds, but at least these days one can usually pick nicer days for vintage gear jumps.


------------
* In Mid-Lite form. Sounds like the same rating as the regular LoPo but 400lb and not 600lb lines. Not sure of any other changes.

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i weigh 150. i have stood up my pc twice in my 25 jumps on it.

And I don't have a Stylemaster reserve. i couldn't find it. I have a stylemaster harness/main and a mini system reserve. it may be an NAA reserve.

another question i had was pack volume. i don't know what will or will not fit, except that the t10 and whatever is in now fit and the phantom 26 does not fit.

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H John,

Quote

a mini system reserve.



Ah, the plot thickens. :P

As I recall ( and do not bet on it ), the Mini-System reserve containers would easily take a 26 ft Lo-Po; such as a Security canopy, an early Strong canopy, etc. And I think that one could get a 24 ft flat ( T-10R canopy ) in there; maybe a little tight but doable.

Quote

it may be an NAA reserve



I used to pack one of these for a customer; it is of similar volume to a Security 26 ft Lo-Po canopy.

Quote

the phantom 26 does not fit



Of all of the canopies that I am referring to, the Phantom 26 has the smallest pack volume. Can you explain why you feel it does not fit? Too loose, etc??????

Jerry Baumchen

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Your worried about the chest reserve and you weigh 150 and wear a phantom 24? You stand up your PC EVERY TIME at 150.:P

As Jerry said anything that will hold a 24' flat will hold a LoPo or Phantom 28. And you should be able to stand any of them up. But don't try.
I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

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Hi John,

Quote

is that possible? can a canopy be too big?



It depends upon the specific 28 ft canopy you are talking about. A surplus military C-9 ( a 28 ft canopy ) has a far larger volume than a National Parachute Industries Aerostar 28 ft canopy.

So exactly what canopies do you have? Maybe then we can begin to assist you better?

Jerry Baumchen

PS)
Quote

if i were going to look into getting a pop top from strong, do the same canopies fit in it? or would i need something smaller?



The original Pop-Top was designed for a Navy 26 ft conical.

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It seems like a good time to scan and upload the canopy volume chart (packing volume chart) from Para Gear's 1990 catalogue, the earliest I have. It covers mains and reserves.

Others with actual experience with particular belly mounts have answered already, but it might be useful to have a little packing volume data, even if the exact numbers are always debatable.

Unlike other charts I have found online, it has enough old data to include things like Navy Conicals or 24' T-10, as well as early sport round reserves.

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What about a Piglet reserve. Can you get them anymore?
Is that mini system reserve container the one pin deal? That can be used either side or center pull?
U only make 2 jumps: the first one for some weird reason and the last one that you lived through. The rest are just filler.
scr 316

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John_snurkowski

I love jumping my nostalgic gear. on my stylemaster i can choose as a reserve a t10r, a national triconi(not phantom. i think its older than them), or i was considering getting a strong lopo. I am looking for opinions from you old farts that have jumped these parachutes. as you can tell from the title, the landings scare me. I really have no experience on any rounds except the paracommander and a sierra. so, what parachute do i want?



I have 5 jumps and landings on round reserves after 5 cutaways. Three of those were on belly warts....2 T10r's and one C-9 reserve. The other two were on LoPo 26's in my piggy back Green Star rig I highly recommend thinking about how you will be hanging under that reserve should you have to use it. If it is like many of them the attachment points are low on the main harness and they don't have much if any risers.... given that you tend to hang cattywhumpus under the canopy with a landing guaranteed to be heels...... butt.... back and smash back of head I have watchd people back in the 70's do that more than once.... and it can really ring your bell resoundingly.

I learned to reach thru the lines in front of me... take a wrap around my arms and stand myself up straighter in the harness while hanging from the clips on the D-rings to be in a better vertical landing attitude.. and do one hell of a good PLF.

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every mini system reserve i've seen is one pin and can be either center or side pull because of the rotating cone. i've never seen a piglet reserve.

the reserve attachment points on my stylemaster are higher than on military rigs, but believe me, i have worried about that before

and thank you for the volume chart. that was very helpful.

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I have two Stylemaster reserve rides...one on a 23' tri-con (with the bands) and the other on a Strong 26' LoPo.

Tri-Con opened faster & oscillated quite a bit but really didn't land me that much harder than the LoPo. I was about 220# without gear.

The high mount Stylemaster reserve opening will teach ya not to have an altimeter & stopwatch on the top panel! lol










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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every mini system reserve i've seen is one pin and can be either center or side pull because of the rotating cone. i've never seen a piglet reserve.

Yep that's the one. I had one of those at the Nats in the 70's. One of the Knights came over to me and mentioned that it had a "reputation". I lifted up the pin flap so he could see the jesus string I had attached. He then showed me the teams- same string. Those containers stayed closed "cone lock" even after you pull the pin.
A Piglet reserve is/was a 18' conical. Could have been a tri-conical, I'm old. It was the companion to the Piglet main.
I jumped the Piglet reserve a few times and it was well behaved. I have a lot of jumps on a Tri-con reserse. I would not recommend it unless you're a little nuts. It tended to go inside out. Doing a lot of damage in the process.
U only make 2 jumps: the first one for some weird reason and the last one that you lived through. The rest are just filler.
scr 316

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airtwardo

I have two Stylemaster reserve rides...one on a 23' tri-con (with the bands) and the other on a Strong 26' LoPo.

Tri-Con opened faster & oscillated quite a bit but really didn't land me that much harder than the LoPo. I was about 220# without gear.

The high mount Stylemaster reserve opening will teach ya not to have an altimeter & stopwatch on the top panel! lol



I especially liked my aircraft altimeter mounted in the panel..... that smarted a tad bit[:/]

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I have two chest reserve rides. #1 26' navy conical unmodified. It oscillated smoothly, and I touched down in an up-swing, almost a standup landing. #2 same canopy with the 4-line release added. Smooth soft standup landing in a lady's front yard.

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Had two rides down on WWII era 24 Twill reserves in 1965. They tended to oscillate a bit during descent and one occasion I timed it right making a standup landing on the runway.

I had Mae Wests on my 5TU C9 surplus canopy on my 11th and 61st jumps. In both cases I hand-deployed the reserve. In the next 2000 jumps I had two totals and a scary reserve ride that I can describe when I have more time....
DZGone.com
B-4600, C-3615, D-1814, Gold Wings #326, Diamond Wings #152.

If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much room!

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Quote

Tri-Con opened faster & oscillated quite a bit but really didn't land me that much harder than the LoPo. I was about 220# without gear.



Wow! I mostly hear of jumpers landing those in the 150-170# range - that set you down reasonably well at 220#?
=========Shaun ==========


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I got a T7A, OD, of course, that's only been in storage for about 45 years. It's in perfect shape and will let you down soft as a feather. I'll sell it you really cheap. Before you jump it, can I interest you in some nice cheap Jersey real estate? Muhahahaha!

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26 ft Navy Conical gave me a great reserve ride back in the early 70s at Pope Valley. Had the 4 line release mod. Strong canopy, decent descent rate, no worries about acid mesh or other mfg defects. Old, simple, reliable.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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