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SkyDekker

Attaining license in Canada

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After my 4 SL jumps this summer, I ahve decided to save some money and go do AFF or PFF at one of the local dropzones on or near the Niagara Peninsula here in the great white north, Canada. I ahve found one DZ with an AFF program identical to the US AFF program. Then there is one DZ with a PFF program requiring 2 IAD jumps prior to doing their program.
My question however is: What are the (a?) license requirements in Canada. After graduating from AFF, what would I have to do to get a license?
Thanks, SkyDekker
"We cannot do great things, only small things with great love" Mother Theresa

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Since you're in the area,
Go to Frontier, they're in upstate NY. One of the nicest DZ's around. They usually have turbines. Their instruction is excellent, the evening firepit is legendary.
When I did it two years ago it was cheaper then swoop, but the dollar's taken a nosedive since so do the math yourself.
The USPA progression makes so much more sense then the CSPA. You should save money by going with the USPA.
Frontier is located in NewFane, NY - a 15 minute drive from the Queenston/Lewiston Bridge.
You'll find that about half the jumpers drive from Canada, most from Toronto - simply because Toronto area DZ's simply suck.
_Am

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Andy,
Quote

The USPA progression makes so much more sense then the CSPA. You should save money by going with the USPA.

Care to explain that view?
I persoannaly feel that the AFF program, by going from nothing to a 2 on 1 is not as good of a progression then PFF that requires 2 or 3 IADs.
Remster
Muff 914

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***the DZ with the AFF program is probably a USPA affiliate. The one with the PFF will be a CSPA DZ[/quote}
Actually, the DZ offering the AFF program is affiliated with both organization. At least that is what I understand from their website.
If I get an US a license, would that allow me to jump on any of the canadian DZs?
SkyDekker
"We cannot do great things, only small things with great love" Mother Theresa

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Andy,
You made two points that I am just not grasping.
First, did you said that USPA's progression makes more sense?
I have been a CSPA Instructor since 1982 and a USPA Instructor since 1993 and frankly, I never quite understood their old "zero to hero in one week" progression. Granted, if you are a hero, you will breeze through in one week, but not all students are that bright. Many of them need simplified dives, or they will be overwhelmed and have to repeat levels, a discouraging process at best.
The other problem with USPA's old system was the strident "AFF or nothing" attitude of too many USPA Instructors.
Fortunately, USPA's new Integrated Student Program has all but the worst hardliners grudgingly admitting that the best student progression integrates a variety of teaching techniques, including a few tandems, a few IADs, a litlle tunnel time, a few levels of AFF and a few coach dives. But this is a radically new concept to most American DZs. This broad concept was introduced in places like Gananoque, Ontario and Claresholm, Alberta 20 years ago.
Just to rub it in, in 1982 I flew in the first vertical wind tunnel, near Montreal!
Fortunately, USPA is now revising their progression to bring it in line with innovations that started in Canada circa 1980 and were further refined by Canadian Rob Laidlaw's company: Skydive University and the Australian Parachute Federation. Oh, wait a minute, the APF just photocopied manuals printed in North America.
If USPA has a better progression, it is only because they are building on concepts introduced by Canadians 20 years ago.
As for your suggestion that one could save money by learning at an American DZ ... have you looked at exchange rates recently? The Canadian dollar is hovering around US$0.63. The only advantage to learning in the USA is that you can jump there during the winter.
As for dissing Ontario DZs ... That is just bad karma dude.
Bor Warner,
CSPA Rigger A, Coach 2, IAD & PFF Instructor
Canadian Private Pilot License
USPA BIC, S/L, Tandem and IAD Instructor
FAA Master Parachute Rigger, etc.

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Thx Rob, very well informed post.
As a Quebequer, its my duty ;)to diss Ontarians, but never seriously...
When I live in Ontario, (in TO) I jumped in Ontario, coached in Ontario and instructed in Ontario. Small DZs, yes, but good pleople. Netheir the people of the DZs sucked...
Remster
Muff 914

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I didn't diss Ontario DZ's, I dissed Toronto DZ's. This means STI, which goes without saying. This also means Arthur, which IMHO is just to small. Simcoe is nearly closing. The best of the bunch IMHO is SWOOP, will sometimes get turbines. I have free lodging at Simcoe (people who land off, land at my aunts farm), and I still prefered Frontier.
I love Gananoque. I jump there while at my old man's cottage, in Gan. I wouldn't call it a Toronto area DZ, though. A three hour drive is too far for a 182 and 206.
I'll defer to your opinion on PFF beating AFF. Frontier has a TIAF program, 3 tandems and 5 AFF's, resembling more what Gan is doing.
As for the dollar, I think I made that disclaimer...
_Am

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This means STI, which goes without saying.


I am just wondering what in your opinion is wrong with STI. I did my first 4 SL jumps there. Personally I wouldn't mind going back there, but it is just way too far for me to drive, and there are options closer ot home.
SkyDekker
"We cannot do great things, only small things with great love" Mother Theresa

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At skydive toronto, you will jump ancient gear. I know of no other dropzone that jumps gear THAT old. (manta's and easyfliers. FXC's on reserve and main). Reserve hanldes FALL out of the easyfliers.
Your ownly trianing method is Static Line. SDI does not do any AFF. You can do a tandem, but it is one of the most expensive tandems in Canada. A tandem at STI is nearly twice the price of Skydive Gananoque.
STI is openly hostile to experienced jumpers. Experienced jumpers daily get scratched to Joe can throw out more static lines.
STI uses 5 widebody 182's. Despite that the DZ could easily support at least a Cessna Caravan, STI is simply not interested in turbines. Joe Chow knows that his 182 put out static lines just fine, and that's all that he's interested in doing...
_Am

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Is Arthur still putting 1st jump students on rounds?
PS: for you fellow north americains, they still do that in the UK too.. man was I surprised when I saw a bunch of 1st jump students wait for boarding with belly mounted reserves for the 1st time here!
Remster
Muff 914

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___________________________________________________
A three hour drive is too far for a 182 and 206.
___________________________________________________
eeeee by gum, the youth of today!! When I started jumpin' back in '93 it were a luxury to go up int Cessna for a jump. And if t' Cessna had carpet it were a reet treat.
And don't even get me going about when they started up t' engines on Islander....

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Apparently the DZ in Arthur, Ontario stopped dropping students with round parachutes when Llyod Kallio recently retired to Belize. Knowing Llyod, he was probably using the same serial numbers that I jumped in 1979!
The good news about Arthur is that the new owners inquired about our stack of used Student Javelins with Mantas, Sharpchuter reserves and freshly overhauled FXCs.

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Just wondering for the solo licence is it 20 or 25 jumps? can't remember


I am pretty sure it is 20 jumps. My question is, would a US dz let me jump if all I had was a canadian solo certificate?
SkyDekker
"We cannot do great things, only small things with great love" Mother Theresa

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"My question is, would a US dz let me jump if all I had was a canadian solo certificate?"
I wouldn't see why not. If you have your log book it shouldn't be a problem. Of course...call the DZ before you travel to explain the situation and get a final decision from the DZO.
"It's the cans..they're defective. Stay away from the cans"-Steve Martin
Clay

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the Minimum # of jumps for the Solo Certificate is 10 jumps
the other requirements are:---
one freefall delay greater than 30 secs
one 5 sec freefall delay from 4000'
three self spotted (unassisted) jumps self guided within 50m of target.
demonstrated in freefall right 360, left 360 turn (figure 8)
performed one freefall jump where the individual exits with back to
relative wind in sit , holds for 5 sec then rotates belly to earth. (sit exit and ride the slide)
Demonstrated canopy stall and recovery ( above 2000')
demonstrated rear riser turn (above 2000')
Completed a check out jump as per self supervision in PIM 2A
has endorsement for reserve procedures and emergency procedures review (solo)
Correct verbal response to set of published questions.
minimum 3mins accum freefall
stable activation at prescrbed alt on last 5 jumps.
andrew

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