History lessons for the young pups

[SCS292 1]

Wendy,

2500 was pull altitude in the old days. I didn't go below that on purpose. I won't say it never happened but it wasn't my thing to go low. I just wanted to get to the ground in one piece, pack as fast as possible and get on the next RW load. The tandem requirement was just too much. Straight to AFF would have been fine and a little like RW so it would have been cool. I did need to know about square parachutes, so ground school was good too. I do have 800 or so hours in fixed wing aircraft so I understand the pattern and the flare. I swooped a Mooney all the way down the Easterwood Airport runway on my first landing attempt with the instructor rapping my throttle hand knuckles with a pencil and yelling "I told you no more than 70 knts over the threshold, now go around and slow down on the next one." I also have a balloon rating so I understand planning the approach to landing well ahead of time.

[skyjumpenfool 2]

SCS292

Wendy,

The tandem requirement was just too much. Straight to AFF would have been fine and a little like RW so it would have been cool.

I could be off the mark here (it's happened before) but it sounds like that DZ did AFP. AFP is a type of instruction that involvess doing a series of Tandem skydives first. There are AFF DZ's that do not require Tandems. Check it out and welcome back.

edited to add ... I love this thread! A place where even Twardo is made to look like a young pup.

Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."

[airtwardo 6]

i AM a young pup!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Guru312 0]

airtwardo

i AM a young pup!

The kids! The kids!! Who let the kids in here?!

Guru312

I am not DB Cooper

[efs4ever 3]

Yeah, I was THERE. She had a floating ripcord and dumped a belly wart at terminal. It was supposed to be her first "round" jump. Asshat DZO freaked out and wouldn't let me jump my own round there. (Sorry Rich, but you "were" an asshat for that one!)

Russell M. Webb D 7014
Attorney at Law
713 385 5676
https://www.tdcparole.com

[mjosparky 3]

airtwardo

i AM a young pup!

My ass......

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[brokenwing 1]

absolutely awesome story Wendy

[brokenwing 1]

re the part: 2500 was pull altitude in the old days. I didn't go below that on purpose. I won't say it never happened but it wasn't my thing to go low.

i tried to avoid people who did not have altitude awareness - seemed like an unhealthy thing to hear someone say i didnt know what altitude i was at.

[SCS292 1]

brokenwing

i tried to avoid people who did not have altitude awareness - seemed like an unhealthy thing to hear someone say i didnt know what altitude i was at.

I didn't say I didn't know my altitude. I said I didn't go low on purpose. If you have someone above you, sometimes you have to wait till it is safe to pull, for you and the person above. I tried to avoid people who dumped at 2500 no matter what.

[SCS292 1]

After getting chastised for not knowing exactly how high I was (in the air), I recollected how things were back in the early '70s. Richard Nixon imposed a wage and price freeze in August of '71 so the $400 per month salary was not improving. $110 to rent, $48 to car payment, taxes?, utilities, food and skydiving took the rest. Oh yes, gas was 35 cents a gallon, beer was $4 a case, a trip to 7,500 was $3, 10.5 was $4.50 and 12.5 was $6. We went to 14.5 a several times in the DC-3 but I can't remember what that cost. So my first rig was $75, It was a 28' 7tu with a 24' unmodified reserve. First major purchase was a pair of Frenchies cause we hit the ground damn hard under those cheapos. Second major purchase was a PC so I wouldn't hit the ground so damn hard. My next purchase was an Altimaster II. Did I mention that money was tight, especially for us in our early 20s. On most RW loads we made sure at least one person had an altimeter and promised to pay attention to it and shake off at 3000. They didn't always remember but ground rush set in about 2500, a little earlier if you got out above 10.5. We watched out for each other and would never dump without looking up, waving off and making sure no one was above us even if the low guy did have the right of way. If you ever went out 30th from a small door DC-3 (my usual position) you understand the first guys (girls too but very few back then) out would be way back there and way down there by the time you cleared the door. Stand on your head, draw in your shoulders, think small and don't peek for 25 to 30 seconds. Remember, we had crap jumpsuits, crap harnesses and a belly wart. When you peeked, it was always too early, but in another ten you tracked like hell to get back to what you hoped by now would be a 20 or more star. The formations were all round stars in those days and more often than not they had already come and gone by the time the 30th guy got down to where it used to be. But occasionally it was still there and you could get in and call it a really great day. Altitude was important and hopefully someone was paying attention. But if altitude was all you cared about, you got to go on the style and accuracy loads. We had good times with our friends, a free beer on the occasion of someone getting their SCR and back then not too many people to share with cause there weren't many SCRs on the DZ. Only 6 on the load I got mine on and 2 cherries so that is three beers each (only one case in the early days) and we didn't waste much on the shower. If you didn't have your SCR you didn't get to participate in the ceremony. Those memories are some of my most vivid, even after 40 years.

[steve1 5]

French jump boots were worth every penny back in the early 70's. I've sprained my ankles several times and bruised my heels a couple other times. Each time I wasn't wearing my Frenchies.

My first jump was out of a C-141 in the Army. We'd practiced PLF's until we were sick of doing them. The jump was perfect until I hit the ground. I forgot to keep my knees together and sprained the hell out of one ankle. My army boots were better than tennis shoes, but not as good as Frenchies.

I hadn't been sport jumping long before I bought a pair of French jump boots. Everyone had them in 1971, and for good reason. They absorbed a ton of shock. Those air cushions in the sole were great. The extra ankle support helped too.

About 74 or so, most of the really cool jumpers were going to tennis shoes. I figured I wanted to be cool too, so I got my Adida's out. The problem was we were still jumping para-commanders. There were times when you needed more protection for your feet.

Shortly there-after I bruised both heels. I was waslking around like a ballerina for a week or so after that.

Then I had a malfunction and landed in rock pile under a wildly oscilating 24 ft. reserve. Yep, my tennis shoes were about worthless. Both ankles were ex-rayed, but they were only sprained. I was on crutches for a couple weeks after.

Then there was that time I made a low turn under a square. Again I had both ankles ex-rayed. My PLF probably saved me from worse injuries. I needed help to walk away from that one though. I ended up with a big plastic boot on one foot, and a couple weeks worth of pain pills. If only I had worn my Frenchies that day.

The last P.C. jump that I made was at a jump meet. I was determined to stand it up. I hadn't jumped a P.C. in about 25 years. I slammed into the ground hard. I should have went down, but hell, a bunch of people were watching. This was right next to the tents. Without Frenchies I would have been hurt again. As it was I ended up a hero and everyone clapped. Not bad for an old fat guy!

[wmw999 2,120]

Quote

The last P.C. jump that I made was at a jump meet. I was determined to stand it up. I hadn't jumped a P.C. in about 25 years.

Interestingly enough, I jumped a round (Starlite) just last month at the old farts' reunion.

But I didn't even try to stand it up . I'm sure with practice and timing it wouldn't have been hard, but the landing was definitely harder than under a square, and I understand now why skydiving was something that you quit in your 50's in those days

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[steve1 5]

During the 70's, probably the oldest skydiver that I ever knew was about 50.

He wanted to learn to jump. He had a younger wife and about five little kids. Maybe he thought he was younger than he really was.

So, on his first jump he shattered his femur. I can't recall how many breaks he had in it, but there were several. I later worked construction with him, and he told me how hard it was not being able to work for all those months.

I think part of the problem was that our club didn't take much time teaching PLF's. That was something you really needed to learn, back then.

Anyone over forty seemed like an old guy back then. I really don't recall many jumpers who were even that old....

Dave Tousey and Bob Smith were only about 35 back in the 70's. They were about the two oldest jumpers that I knew back then. But, come to think of it, Stan Sikes may have been 45......He was one tough old bird....

[Guru312 0]

steve1

Anyone over forty seemed like an old guy back then. I really don't recall many jumpers who were even that old....

Sometime in the late '60s when I opened my first DZ I had a grey haired old guy come up to me and say, "I'd like to make a few jumps here."

This all happened a long time ago...and my memory isn't quite what it used to be, but this is what I remember....

I asked him if he had ever jumped and he said he made a few at various drop zones. I asked if he had a log book and he said it was in his car with his boots and jumpsuit. I told him get his gear on and bring his log book over to the PLF platform.

When he came over to me I noticed military jump wings on his chest and an 82nd Airborne patch on his right shoulder. I did a total double take and my mouth dropped when I saw three stars on his wings. I motioned toward the wings and I said, "Where did you buy these wings?"

Fire shot out of his eyes and I thought he was going to deck me. He leaned into my face and said, "I earned them jumping into Holland, Normandy and North Africa. That's why my shoulder patch is on my right shoulder but you probably wouldn't know about that sort of thing."

I told him that actually I did know about that sort of thing because I had spent 2.5 years in the 82nd Airborne myself. I told him that my command sergeant major had four combat stars so I knew about such things. I told him there aren't many guys with 3 or 4 combat jumps. He said, "...far as I know there are less than a hundred of us still around."

The guy's name was Walt Santman and we became very good friends over the years. I ended up teaching two of his sons to jump. It was a very sad day about 20 years ago when he went to that DZ in the sky.

He was one of the finest human beings that I ever met. Tough as nails on the outside but a real, genuine and sensitive guy on the inside. I miss him.

Guru312

I am not DB Cooper

[fastphil 0]

Here's an old pic I dug up of a Dactyl Doc, doing what I would call Pythagorian CRW. I've done a little CRW with starlites, which may not be rounds but are rounder then these dactyls.

[xsniper 1]

I started in '75. My first accuracy meet was completly dominated by the Knights with Paps.....so naturally I had to have one. Jumped it a bunch and felt I did not need a square, my Pap was sufficent. That was until I was jumping loads spotted by the guys with squares.

[steve1 5]

Hod Sanders had almost a 1,000 jumps on a 7-TU. When it had some holes or burns on it, Hod would put some more duck tape on it. He said he didn't trust the new gear.

When he was jumping with Mirror Image B.J. told Hod that he had to get a hotter canopy. It was taking too long waiting for him, to hike back in, when the wind came up.

Hod was about as tough as they come. I couldn't imagine making that many jumps on a 7-TU.

[SCS292 1]

steve1

Hod was about as tough as they come. I couldn't imagine making that many jumps on a 7-TU.

If he weighed more than about 140 pounds he was tough as they come.

[skypuppy 1]

JeffCa

***The AFF mills are pumping out 100,s of new jumpers every year all over the world . 10 jumps and you are a skydiver .

So what? Bill Booth's instructor had 6 jumps.

yeah, but back then 6 jumps was a lot.

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[steve1 5]

SCS292

***

Hod was about as tough as they come. I couldn't imagine making that many jumps on a 7-TU.

If he weighed more than about 140 pounds he was tough as they come.

Being a light weight did make a difference on landing, (particularly a round canopy). One size of canopy and container fit all. The worst part was that you couldn't control where you landed very well when the wind picked up or when you had a bad spot. Landing next to buildings, trees, water, and power lines was nothing but dangerous, back then.

Hod may have weighed 160 in the early 70's. I don't think he was ever a light weight. Bill Vonn said that Hod had the biggest wrists that he ever grabbed onto. That was when they built the 400 way in Thailand.