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Wenger

Round Engines

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Got any pics of the 28,,man i love that thing,,how was it to fly ?



No pics anymore, all my treasures were lost in a storage locker flood while I was in Australia for a couple years.

But the best way to describe how it flew would probably be to compare it to a Cessna 150, it was that easy.

Though it had a big plane feel, the flight controls were balanced just right. It was actually easier than the T-6 especially since the visibility on the ground and in flight was spectacular.

I also recall that my particular T-28 came out of South American (I think Argentina). It had pods on the wings which I had removed. They were either for rockets or some kind of ordinance, I don't remember.

It was kind of intimidating to look at since it was SO BIGGG.
You live more in the few minutes of skydiving than many people live in their lifetime

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I just stumbled on to this thread. I know it's old but I couldn't resist commenting.

I used to be a crew chief on C-124s and I can speak to how much went into starting and running those big old 28 cylinder 4360 cu inch engines. First you pushed the starter button and allowed the engine to turn over for a certain number of blade counts (this was to verify that one of the lower cylinders hadn't gotten enough liquid in them to cause a liquid lock). Then you turned on the ignition and continued to hold the starter while depressing the ignition boost and prime. When the engine begins to fire you release the starter button, but continue to hold the prime and ignition boost until the engine is idling smoothly. At this point you slide in the mixture lever and watch for an rpm drop. When the rpm dips then you release the prime and the engine will be going.

You had to be pretty careful with the timing of the mixture lever and the release of the prime button. If you got it wrong it would result in a backfire that many times blew the exhaust stacks right off the engine, stripping the mounting studs out of the cylinder.

Thanks for raising these old memories!

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Wenger

Don't know where this came from but for all who have ever flown a round engine.

We gotta get rid of those turbines; they're ruining aviation and our hearing.
A turbine is too simple minded, it has no mystery. The air travels through it in a straight line and doesn't pick up any of the pungent fragrance of engine oil or pilot sweat.
Anybody can start a turbine. You just need to move a switch from “OFF” to “START” and then remember to move it back to “ON” after a while. My PC is harder to start.
Cranking a round engine requires skill, finesse, and style. You have to seduce it into starting. It’s like walking up to a mistress. On some planes, the p9ilots aren’t even allowed to do it.
Turbines start by whining for awhile, then give a ladylike poof and start whining a little louder.
Round engines give a satisfying rattle-rattle, click-click, BANG, more rattles, another BANG, a big macho FART or two, more clicks, a lot more smoke and finally a serious low pitched roar. We like that. It’s a GUY thing.
When you start a round engine, your mind is engaged and you can concentrate on the flight ahead. Starting a turbine is like flicking on a ceiling fan. Useful, but hardly exciting.
When you have started his round engine successfully you Crew Chief looks up at you like he’d let you kiss his girl, too!
Turbines don’t break or catch fire often enough, which leads to aircrew boredom, complacency and inattention. A round engine at speed looks and sounds like it’s going to blow any minute. This helps concentrate the mind!
Turbines don’t have enough control levers or gauges to keep a pilot’s attention. There’s nothing to fiddle with during long flights.
Turbines smell like a Girl Scout camp full of Coleman lamps. Round engines smell like God intended machines to smell.
Pass this on to anyone who flew them, ever in remembrance of that “Greatest Generation”



I had not seen this until tonight, but it is spot on. But secretly, I do love the whine of a turbine as well. But I'm old and entitled like whatever the hell I wish. Mike Marcon

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I was just looking at one of those engines yesterday at the Kalamazoo Aviation History Museum.;) Snow day for the kids.
http://www.airzoo.org/

They have everything from model engines up to a Rocketdyne F-1 rocket engine (5 on the Saturn V). A BUNCH of radial and jet engines on display.

They also have a T-28 decked out in Blue Angles colors. See photo attached. See website for list of aircraft. Many of them used to fly routinely and still could including the T-28. When I started packing for them they would have a flight of the day at the museum and volunteers earned a ride along with hours. Insurance finally killed the flying. For a couple of year some of the local warbird pilots sponsored the insurance for the T-28, but now none of the former flyers have drip pans under them except the Ford Tri-Motor. They used to sell site seeing flights around Kalamazoo in the Tri-Motor.

Hmm, just realized that aircraft list doesn't include the Tigercat they used to fly. It may have been privately owned. When they sponsored an airshow in the 80's they used to fly the Grumman Tigercat, Hellcat, Bearcat and Wildcat in formation with a Navy Tomcat brought in for the show. Full flight of Grumman cats and the Tomcat would go vertical for missing man formation.

I pack for a bunch of warbird pilots that have T-6's to Corsairs and Yaks and at least one L-39.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

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When I was a kid "helping" my father tune up the car, I remember him asking me how many spark plugs I thought it would take to tune up a B-36 bomber. I was a little incredulous when he told me 336! If you spent a minute replacing each plug it would take over 5 1/2 hours to get them all changed if you didn't stop for a break!

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Brings back memories.

I flew a 600 HP Stearman (former crop duster) powered by a Pratt and Whitney R-1340 Wasp engine with an 85 gallon aux tank bolted to the floor, towing a 2,400 square foot aerial billboard from the MA/NH border to a duster strip near Ocean City, MD and back in the late '80's. Same engine/prop configuration as the Noorduyn Norseman flown by Parachutes, Inc. at Orange, MA and Lakewood, NJ, and the T-6. Distinctive sound, like a hundred chainsaws revving up at the same time due to engine noise combined with prop tips going supersonic. Got thrown out of several northeast airports as the result of noise complaints. :-) (I ended up mostly deaf at the end of every 8 hour flying day.)

I can thank that bird for a chance encounter with a childhood hero that summer: my boss told me to call Rosie O'Grady's flying circus in Orlando to arrange a prop swap. The voice that answered the phone said, "Rosie O'Grady's, Joe Kittinger." Colonel Kittinger couldn't have been more gracious, regaling me with stories of Projects Manhigh and Excelsior for 20 minutes before we got around to talking props.

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Beautiful. In my dreams! Thank you, Michael.
Reminds me of my days lurking Orange as a kid: Beech 18, DC-3, 10-way speedstars. Finally jumping with some of those guys now.
Jim
"It's not the number of breaths we take--it's the moments that take our breath away."

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Me too. I grew up at a DZ and spent many hours of my childhood riding in the copilots seat of the Beech C-45 my Dad flew.

A year or so after my Dad died in 2009, I flew up to Endless Mountain DZ in PA and made a jump out of their beautiful Beech 18. The smells, vibrations, sounds and atmosphere took me right back to my childhood.

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Yes, the B-36 used six 4360s, so 28 cylinders per engine times 2 plugs per cylinder times 6 engines equals 336 plugs.

I don't know what they had on the B-36, but the 124 had an engine analyzer capable of looking at the spark waveform of all 224 plugs. Amazing old plane!

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Four PW 4360s will soon be pulling a C 97 around. After years and years of work BAHF's C 97G has received its EXPERIMENTAL certification, passed FAA inspection and will soon be flying.

I had the pleasure of seeing one of the last flights of a KC 97L in military service. It was in 1978 as I recall. The L model had two outboard jet engines added to help with takeoff and climb. The sound of four 4360s at full power with two screaming J 47 turbojets adding to the mix was incredible. I watched it take off from Travis AFB. It was a TX ANG tanker.

Ever hear of the C 133? Like a Herc on steroids. Here is a website I made commemorating the last flight of the C 133. Enjoy: https://sites.google.com/site/boeing377/c133


377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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>From the early 80's at Yolo Dropzone in Davis, CA. Spark plug clean/rotate time for N4980V.

That's the airplane I almost died in. ( post #24 from "Your single most dangerous jump" thread) I wonder if it's still flying, I think I'll do an N number search.

(Registration is expired now. Most recently registered to Bush Air in Delaware. Hopefully sitting on the ramp or in somebody's hangar somewhere.)

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My brother ended up with the airplane a year or so after that. I flew right seat in it helping him ferry it back to Antioch, CA from Palatka, FL in the winter of (I think?)1985. We literally nearly froze to death when the gasoline heater failed at 14,000' over the mountains. Nice Super E Twin Beech- tall cabin, cargo door, 3 blade heavy Hartzell props. Heater sucked balls, though>:(

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Hi 377,



Yes I have. There was a lot of those at Hickam AFB, Hawaii when I was stationed there.

Talking to one of the 133 pilot when asked what it was like to fly he said "it's like sitting on your front porch flying your house!".

BTW, Congrats on your story and article about the 133. A great read. I filled out a lot of those maintenance logs you showed and that brought back memories. Thanks!

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We used to prop the right engine of twin Beech at Valley Mills (The White Whale) when the battery died and there was no money for a new one. It usually only took 2 or 3 tries to get one going and then the second one had power to the starter. Gary Lewis knew how to sweet talk those radials.

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Hi Mark: Just some extraneous 133 info for you. The late George Morar (D something or other. Don't remember and log books out in the shop), who used to run Yolo in the 60s and 70s was an engineer on C-133s at Travis. He was also on the one that had all four engines shut down over the Pacific and ditched the aircraft. Doesn't sound like fun to me. Just thought you might like to know.

Jim N5Cot
If you know how many guns you have - you don't have enough!

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Thanks Jim. Sure wish I could have met George before he passed away.
Surviving a C-133 ocean ditching is miraculous.

I never jumped Yolo in the old days, just Livermore, Antioch and the best DZ ever: Pope Valley.

Blue skies and 73
Mark
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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>Sure wish I could have met George before he passed away.

George Morar was a little gruff until you got to know him but a hell-of-a good guy! He would let me jump the shit out of his personal gear - a Racer with a Pegasus - and never asked for a dime. Besides Pope, jumping at Yolo in the early 80s was the most fun I've had skydiving. It was a sad day when I heard he went in.

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bungee75

Remember sleeping on the ride to altitude?



Sure do. Heavily loaded DC 3 with tired engines. Siesta time. Half hour and even a bit more sometimes.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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