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howardwhite

Plane Pix

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A couple of plane pix by Mike Swain, found on an aviation weather website I visit.
Captions:"Skydiving out of the bomb bay of a WWII B25, Punta Gorda, Florida, July 4, 1970 "
and: "Bruce Harting exits Dave Allyn's antique Lockeed Electra on the first skydive over the Island of Grand Cayman - 10,000 feet 3/12/1972. Bad wind landings left only two of five jumpers uninjured to make a second jump."

HW

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..................
"Bad wind landings left only two of five jumpers uninjured to make a second jump."

HW



So after seeing three of their frinds get injured the other two go up and do it again! That's hard core!!!

I guess this proves the old saying- "If your going to be stupid you better be tough."

;)

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Mike Swains book ENDLESS FALL is really a good read. HIGHLY recommended.

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http://www.endlessfall.net/MM017.ASP?pageno=35



377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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HW--

I think Mike made an error on the Lockheed caption. Having made a few dozen D-18 jumps and 449 out of "Amelia," I'm pretty sure that's a photo of a Twin Beech. The Lockheed L-10E is bigger with less tapered wings and carried P&W R-1340s.

Hoop

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HW--

I think Mike made an error on the Lockheed caption. Having made a few dozen D-18 jumps and 449 out of "Amelia," I'm pretty sure that's a photo of a Twin Beech. The Lockheed L-10E is bigger with less tapered wings and carried P&W R-1340s.

Hoop



Did the horizontal stab ever extend outboard of the vertical stabs on a twin beech? I can't find any pics where this is the case. Plenty of Lockheeds do, though (Electras & Lodestars).

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You'll note in the attached that the L-10E has a more rounded belly, shorter, stubbier nose, and is proportionally longer from trailing edge of wing root to horizontal stabilizer than a Twin Beech. And inasmuch as N355B was the only Electra used as a jumpship, the paint job on Mike's photo doesn't match. (What a pedantic bore, eh?)
Hoop
www.jimhooper.co.uk
PS And the distance from wing root to door is noticeably greater on the L-10E.

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Could Howard's pic be a Lockheed C-40A / model 12 Electra Junior?reply]

Very well could be. R-985s, door farther forward, that distinctive keel evident in both Mike Swain's photo and the link you added. Jack Gregory is normally the best man I know when it comes to aircraft recognition. You there, Jack? Gives us your wisdom.
Hoop
www.jimhooper.co.uk

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I would agree that it's not a beach 18. Look at the placement of the verticle stabilizers and compare to this Beach...

I put that pic into photoshop to see if I could enlarge enough to get the N#. No luck with that. Do you have a better quality copy of this pic?
Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."

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Could Howard's pic be a Lockheed C-40A / model 12 Electra Junior?reply]

Very well could be. R-985s, door farther forward, that distinctive keel evident in both Mike Swain's photo and the link you added. Jack Gregory is normally the best man I know when it comes to aircraft recognition. You there, Jack? Gives us your wisdom.
Hoop
www.jimhooper.co.uk



Fear not GrassHooper
Your Aircraft Sensei is here!:P

I think Muff528 hit the nail on the head. I think it is a Lockheed 12A Electra Junior in Mike Swain's photo. I found a great picture of the underside of one in Australia taken last October. Everything seems to fit.

Lockheed made two Electra models, the 10 and the 12. I don't have time right now to look up all the differences. They are quite similar but one is longer and the engine nacelles on the 12 extend back further on the wing than on the 10.

People often mix them up. I do know that in the movie "Amelia" that came out last year the producers couldn’t find an airworthy Lockheed 10 and had to use a Lockheed 12.

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I would agree that it's not a beach 18. Look at the placement of the verticle stabilizers and compare to this Beach...

I put that pic into photoshop to see if I could enlarge enough to get the N#. No luck with that. Do you have a better quality copy of this pic?



Also, on a Beech 18 it looks like the landing gear doors completely cover the strut forward of the wheel when retracted.

http://www.kopeikingallery.com/media/gallery/Beech-18%20(SNB-2).jpg

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Well, I finally pulled Swain's book off the shelf. While a picture cutline also calls it an Electra, the text calls it a Lockheed 12.
There's a whole chapter about the Cayman Island jump.
There's also a not entirely flattering description of Mr. Hooper.:S

HW

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...a picture cutline also calls it an Electra, the text calls it a Lockheed 12.



As Muff528 and Jack "Sensei" Gregory have noted, there was the R-1340-powered L-10E Electra and the R-985-powered L-12 Electra Junior.


There's a whole chapter about the Cayman Island jump. There's also a not entirely flattering description of Mr. Hooper.:S HW



Hmmm, never went to the Caymans. But as far as the last, do tell! And I always thought Mike and I were pals. Ah, well...as long as he spelled my name correctly...
Hoop

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But as far as the last, do tell! And I always thought Mike and I were pals. Ah, well...as long as he spelled my name correctly...


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Hoop was a relatively small individual, but so aggressive and sure of himself, he was occasionally accused of having a Napoleonic complex...[he] was such a disciplinarian, he was not as popular on the drop zone as he was respected.


Followed by a story about the same Hoop having his unsteerable round reserve pulled at 10 grand by a team member less enthusiastic about discipline.

You asked.
HW

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Followed by a story about the same Hoop having his unsteerable round reserve pulled at 10 grand by a team member less enthusiastic about discipline.You asked.HW



Actually, it was my main, dumped by Billy Revis on my 1,000th, but only after we'd completed a 10-man practice jump, so I didn't really mind swinging at 5,000 feet. If it had happened before completing the star, the disciplinarian in me might indeed have bubbled to the surface. But, as I'm sure you know, hyperbole always makes for a better story. Mike, nice guy that he was, just wasn't cut out for RW and must have taken my not letting him jump with the Ten High Bunch very personally. But the safety of everyone on the team meant I had no option. Decisions always piss off someone. Fact of life.
Hoop

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Hoop was left hanging at 10,000 feet under a nonsteerable reserve floating off in the wind. Hoop landed miles away, and it took him over two hours to get back to the drop zone... with his own unique style and without saying one word, Billy had already gotten even by making Hoop the laughingstock of his own drop zone.



HW

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With the level of aircraft identification talent present, I'm wondering if anyone here plays the www.aviaquiz.com "Name That Plane" game run by Dauntless Aviation. It takes a significant amount of research time for most aircraft (at least for me with very meager aviation knowledge/experience), but it's very satisfying when you track down the right aircraft. The added side-benefit is learning more about aircraft design and terminology during the research.

-Matt Wallin
Matthew Wallin
C-37899

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Hi Jack I can say that we are on the ground.I found it easiest to tell a 12 from a 10E was count windows on the side . The Electra Jr. only had three while the 10e had more. In the "Amelia" movie of a few months ago they used both kinds painted the same.We actually had a 12 at the last days of Salem and first ones at Marine City with the Ppara-hawks. It was shortly after the Beech 18 crashed in Hawaii. Doug got a phone call from the insurance company "No show exits only". It had a B-18 type small round top door not a C-45. Really killed exits

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