Diapers & reefing & deployment methods of later sport rounds?

[pchapman 261]

For some of the later round main canopies like the Sierra, Starlite, Piglet, and even the RW PC, how were they reefed and deployed?

Did people stick with sleeves, or were they starting to put rounds in bags when trying to have light weight round mains?

To what degree were diapers used?

I'm also hazy on when diapers started to be introduced, whether for round mains, round reserves, and also a couple square mains.

Later Starlites had sliders I've read, as an additional reefing aid.

Poynters notes for example that the Strong LoPo reserve first got diaper instructions in '79, while plenty of new round reserves at the start of the 80s got diapers right from the start. One version of the Piglet main is stated as being diaper deployed and originated in '74 - Was a diaper on it already?

[wmw999 2,116]

Common were sleeves, bags, and pods. I don't remember a lot of diapers on sport rounds other than cheapos and reserves (but I did put a diaper on my Firefly in the 1980's).

Yeah, a bag was definitely smaller than a sleeve, and a pod was supposedly easier to close. I used a bag on my Starlite.

The only round to have a slider that I remember was the Starlite, but it was definitely optional (I took mine off).

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[NickDG 23]

I had a Piglet main with a diaper on it in about 1978.

The lines were held by stow bands on the diaper that was attached to the skirt. Then there was a cover over all that held closed with two locking stows. And I think I remember it had Velcro down the sides . . .

NickD

[Niki1 1]

Quote

For some of the later round main canopies like the Sierra, Starlite, Piglet, and even the RW PC, how were they reefed and deployed?

Did people stick with sleeves, or were they starting to put rounds in bags when trying to have light weight round mains?

To what degree were diapers used?

I'm also hazy on when diapers started to be introduced, whether for round mains, round reserves, and also a couple square mains.

Later Starlites had sliders I've read, as an additional reefing aid.

Poynters notes for example that the Strong LoPo reserve first got diaper instructions in '79, while plenty of new round reserves at the start of the 80s got diapers right from the start. One version of the Piglet main is stated as being diaper deployed and originated in '74 - Was a diaper on it already?

I was the second kid on my block to get a Piglet. Probably the first generation of real RW gear. It came with a bag made out of a really light weigt aircraft fabric. The first tome I packed it, it took 2 of us to get it into the bag and 3 of us to close the container. I thought it opened pretty hard. Then I got a Starlite. I would guess that those things opened in about 175 feet from pilot chute inflation to sitting in the saddle. A lot like jumping off a 9 story building with an 8 story kevlar tether. A "spider slider" was put out for it and that made it better. Like only a 7 story jump with a 6 story kevlar tether. I used a bag for it. I got it with my first Wonder Hog. For a little while, I had a Navy 26" Conical. I pulled the apex down to the skirt, put crown lines on it for packing, a triple dog house and turn slots. It had all the drive of a WDI. I used a diaper on it to keep a sleeve out of the modiications. I also put a slider on my Stato Star. That didn't seem to affect the opening much. It sure didn't affect the landing of the damn thing. In short, rounds open better from a ssleeve and ram airs better from a bag. Oh. There were a few people who tried sleeves on their ram airs but they were awkward to pack and didn't seem to be any improvment to anything.

The first diapered reserves that I remember were in the late "70s. They may have been earlier but that's when I remember them. I think the first I saw was the 2 Bite Diaper on a Strong LoPo. You made 2 bites with ONE line group on the diaper and put the slack of the other line group in the first bite(s) in in the pack tray. The rest of the lines were stowed in the pack tray as was the convention at the time. I'm not sure I ever heard about a properly packed 2 Bite Diaper having a problem. (John Sherman at the Jump Shack could tell you more. He has studied it a lot more than I have.) A short time later, Full diapers were the normal thing. Most had horizontal line stows and acted much like the line stow section of a sleeve but without the sleeve. Strongs full diaper had vertical line stows so as to hold the folded skirt and bottom of the canopy much tighter. Apparently the horizontal stow diapers "spit" on occasson and causee problems. That's probably a complete but concise history of deplotment devices. Except for POD which stood for "Parachute Opening Devece" It was really just a bag that was split and would lay open and flat. You stacked your PC (Para Commander) on it and then wrapped it around the canopy. I looked to me like change for change sake and more trouble than the long sleeve that I already had for my PC.

That would take us up ram air reserves and "free bags" (yeah, right. They cost $280) But that's another chapter.

Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossilbe before they were done.
Louis D Brandeis

Where are we going and why are we in this basket?

[jumpbum 0]

From the Parachute Manual "Asciutto filed for a patent on his Diaper deployment device on October 10, 1974. He released his interest in it to the industry in 1981."

[councilman24 36]

My Comp PC was in a sleeve but I have a bag designed for a PC I plan on putting my RW PC in. Number 8 grommet on top for the crown lines and rubber band mounts for on the top to stow them.

I've put a Phantom 28 and a Cross bow reserve (read lopo) into bags to put them in my sport rig to jump.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[lodestar 0]

The exact dates are fuzzy but I can remember a couple of guys coming through Z-hills just before I left there in 72 who were working for Strong enterprises who were testing deployment methods for the new squares....they showed several of us the new "diapers" and also some incredible bruises they had gotten from jumping test jumps without the diapers.
If my memory is correct, that would put the developmental process for diapers somewhere in that year.

[pchapman 261]

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From the Parachute Manual "Asciutto filed for a patent on his Diaper deployment device on October 10, 1974. He released his interest in it to the industry in 1981."

Since the Piglet is from Para Innovators, and that was Asciutto's company, the '74 data matches up nicely with the introduction of the Piglet (at least, the earliest number listed in Poynter's).

I looked up Asciutto's patent: 3,940,095. Filed in '74 and accepted in '76.
While understanding convoluted patent language takes forever, the drawings show full stow diapers with both a lengthwise 3 locking stow system, and a crosswise 2 locking stow system.

The idea of a diaper could follow from a Para Commander sleeve -- the bottom portion is almost a loose full stow diaper that hasn't been sewn to the canopy.

As for Strong, Poynter's shows that his first 26 ft LoPo model, of "circa 1973" was diaper deployed. That fits with what Lodestar wrote. Strong's line equalization diaper wouldn't have interfered with Asciutto's patent.

Poynter's shows the National Phantom 24 and Pioneer K-XX, both with diapers, being introduced in '81. Some Pioneer reserves had Reuter wraps in the mid 70s, but then authorized a diaper in '81 as well. It all fits with the year where Asciutto released his interest in the patent.

Even if it benefitted the sport, one wonders why Asciutto did what he did with the patent, instead of licensing it for a reasonable fee -- as others have done with direct line attachment parachutes or 3-rings.

[jumpbum 0]

If you notice on Poynter's manual, Hank Asciutto also came out with the curve pin and give that to the sport.
I asked Hank the question about giving away the curve pin and the diaper years ago and told me that it would benifit the sport, so why hold it back. Not the exact quote.

[andrewhilton 1]

The Starlite Slider (a spider slider) was introduced around 1976, presumably after the ram air slider had been developed. My Starlites came to me in a mixture of short sleeve (slags) and d-bags. I only acquired them in the last 10 years or so - they open really fast whatever the bagging method.

My 1975 Piglet main has a diaper on it and no bag - just gets folded into the container like a round reserve would do.

[fallfast69 2]

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My 1975 Piglet main has a diaper on it and no bag - just gets folded into the container like a round reserve would do.

Mine too

[fallfast69 2]

Anyone remember the "saddle". I believe that was created by Bob Chaffin - Texas jumper and rigger...but I may be wrong!!!

[skypuppy 1]

Virtually all the lightweight round mains in tandem containers that I've seen were in bags. Mostly the bags had a 'keyhole' - a velcro closed slit that allowed the tightened lines at line stretch to open the bag up further and allow the canopy out. This is also the type of bag my Strato-star came with. I think most bags at the time were deeper and narrower, designed to sit sideways in the container with the pc attached at one end, instead of the wider, shorter bags with a centre-pull now.

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[dks13827 2]

I borrowed a Starlite one time,, and only one time !! OUCH !!!!!!!!!!!!! obviously Wendy was tougher than I........ and maybe lighter, too !!!
I had a POD (bag ) for my PC and liked it a lot.

When the round reserves started to appear with diaper deployment ( and Pioneer had the 'pin' ) that was a huge improvement over the old days of dumping your reserve and 'dont worry, it will open.'

[fossg 0]

I bought (brand new from Pioneer) a jumbo PC in 81. It had a type of deployment bag instead of a sleeve. I had 4 mals with that canopy (probably packing errors) they were all a line over with either left or right side stabilizers wadded upsome times with a slight spin sometimes not. I sold the canopy to a gentleman by the name of Don Rumble when I was in perris in the summer of 82.

[howardwhite 3]

Here's a 1976 Spotter ad.


HW

[BLee52 0]

Wendy Probably remembers the diaper on my cheapo i had when we both had a couple hundred jumps.
It was also short lined 4 1/2 feet and the lines taken out from the insides, to enable it to fit into a strong starlite container, I made it (the diaper)out of cotton to reduce friction (i thought).
After that blew up, i had a tricon cut a little higher on the two outside holes with a pullie on the apex to pull it down after opening,(I cut it off shortly there after cause it didn't help much)and it used a sleeve but to get it to open slower, I took a boot tounge off an army boot sewed it around the last line to flake, then wraped it around the lines and slid it up by the skirt.
i would sleeve the canopy flip up the diaper on the sleeve with the boot leather wraped around the lines
underneath, on deployment the lines would unstow the sleeve would pull off, and then the boot tounge would have to unwind before the parachute opened,
worked great.
As far as starlites go the first ones were opening way to hard. my first jump on a stalite was a two second delay out of the 182 going as slow as he could, i pulled and the next thing i remember i had two canopys out and had to cut away the starlite landed a 26 navy.
later i bought a starlite with the diaper, i was dropping students at the time and didn't like the slow opening at subterminal, so i took it off.
the best way i found to deal with it, was to follow the pilotchute and scrunch my head into my neck. that seemed to work for me and i spent the next 500 jumps on that canopy, that i still remember as being very attached to it .
It may also be the reason i have 4 bone spurs on the front side of my neck.
The diaper for the starlitre was invented by a guy named Chris Russel in a letter to Ted Strong dated 5-25-76 he gives complete instructions on and his tests results of the slider. and to end his letter he states
"I am not interested in patents, copyrights, commissions, or royalties, only recognition and glory If someone fraps because of a slider, I'll be interested in anonymity".
so here you go Chris for inventing the starlite slider
Him-Him-------
and as far as the first diaper type thing on a round i remember the line over prevention device (LPD)from pioneer first.
or maybe the opening shock inhibiter (OSI)on the delta II

[pchapman 261]

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the line over prevention device (LPD)from pioneer first.
or maybe the opening shock inhibiter (OSI)on the delta II

Nice post! I like the homemade leather OSI.

But what was the LPD? Hadn't heard of that before.

[beenthere 0]

I wish we would have had those when we first got our starlites in 75. Tracked away after one dive and deployed before slowing down. I spent the next two weeks lying down. One of our team mates had his bird reserve deploy during his opening and shouldn't say what happened to a swiss jumper on one of his openings. All pre-slider models.

[BLee52 0]

I had fond memories of my starlite, I put my throw out on my riser so i could follow the pilotchute and put myself in a better position.
still it opened like iI hung it on a telephone pole.

An LPD was a diaper like thing. It was a strap that went around the skirt, but instead of a rubber band and bite of line. A nylon loop and steel pin were employed.
the pin was attached to a line shorter than the others. Idea being that the canopy strings out, and the pin is pulled just before line strech.
At the other end the line was attached to a stearing toggle, so you could pull it manualy.
but, i think the problem came from a line half hitching around the pin and causeing a streamer.

[wmw999 2,116]

Experimenting with gear was fun. There was a lot of it in those days.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[tbrown 26]

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I borrowed a Starlite one time,, and only one time !! OUCH !!!!!!!!!!!!! obviously Wendy was tougher than I........ and maybe lighter, too !!!
I had a POD (bag ) for my PC and liked it a lot.

When the round reserves started to appear with diaper deployment ( and Pioneer had the 'pin' ) that was a huge improvement over the old days of dumping your reserve and 'dont worry, it will open.'

I made a ten second delay with a Starlite just once, with the "X" slider. Thought the opening was hard enough that I didn't try it again, PCs were much softer.

Diapered reserves were nice, had a couple openings with them that were just fine. But the Pioneer LPD pin hung up and killed a friend of ours at Orange in 1977 after cutting away from his Strato Star. He'd just put out a plane full of happy S/L kids too, so they all got to watch their friendly Jumpmaster go in. I think Pioneer lost their TSO for the pin system after that one.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[howardwhite 3]

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But the Pioneer LPD pin hung up and killed a friend of ours at Orange in 1977 after cutting away from his Strato Star. He'd just put out a plane full of happy S/L kids too, so they all got to watch their friendly Jumpmaster go in.

Yup, Smilin' Joe D. I was there. It was ugly. IIRC, a 'last hope rope' was also involved in the accident. Fortunately, I didn't have to clean up after this one, so I can't be sure.

HW

[JerryBaumchen 1,046]

Hi Tom,

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But the Pioneer LPD pin hung up and killed a friend of ours

In the Fall of '77 I spent 8 weeks in Japan on a project. I knew about that fatality. In Nov '77 I went down to the southern island, town of Kumomoto to make some jumps with the locals.

They were repacking a Pioneer reserve with that goofy pin system. I told them the story of the fatality and they asked me if I would remove the pin; so I did. IIRC, the TSO on reserves with that pin system did allow its removal.

JerryBaumchen