davidlayne 5 #1 January 29, 2009 I recently received a PM from someone enquiring as to the history behind the term "Leg" as used in my signature. During the sixties when I was with Airborne units "Leg" was a derogatory term Airborne troops used to describe non Airborne personnel. I'm sure many of you Airborne types will remember marching and jogging to the strains of the cadence "Hey hey hey leg, funky funky funky leg" but where this started I have no idea. So fellow "History & Trivia" buffs, who started this and when? My guess is that if was that fellow Geronimo.I don't care how many skydives you've got, until you stepped into complete darkness at 800' wearing 95 lbs of equipment and 42 lbs of parachute, son you are still a leg! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guru312 0 #2 January 29, 2009 QuoteI recently received a PM from someone enquiring as to the history behind the term "Leg" as used in my signature. I went through jump school at Bragg in 1960. We didn't sing that "funky, funky leg song." The term 'leg' is a put-down of non-airborne, for sure. The term comes from "straight leg" which describes the unbloused trousers worn by non-airborne troops. Airborne troops created the "pants in boot tops" which than made them non-straight. That's the history of 'straight leg' as I remember it. It doesn't explain why or how the airborne began doing that in the first place. Oddly, only MPs and airborne were permitted to do the 'pants leg' tuck thing into their boots. When I was in airborne troops took great pride in how their cap was worn. As you know, we ripped out the 'stiffening' material in the cap so we could push down the ridge. Gave us that cocky look. Which is kinda weird because we called the modified cap 'a cunt cap'. [No offense meant, politically correct ladies reading this.] As I understand it, all Army wear a beret now. When I was in only Special Forces were permitted a beret. I stoop in a review at Pope AFB when President Kennedy visited and decreed that SF troops could wear the beret 'legally'Guru312 I am not DB Cooper Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davidlayne 5 #3 January 29, 2009 I had forgotten the phrase "Straight Leg" as used to describing non Airborne Units. I had not forgotten how Airborne Units and M.P.'s were the only troops allowed to blouse their trousers in their non regulation Cochran Jump Boots. "Garrison Cap" is the name of the head gear you so aptly described. This cap was adorned with a glider patch. Airborne units also never wore the "Bus Driver" stlye of head gear either.I don't care how many skydives you've got, until you stepped into complete darkness at 800' wearing 95 lbs of equipment and 42 lbs of parachute, son you are still a leg! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #4 January 29, 2009 Quote[ we called the modified cap 'a cunt cap'. [No offense meant, politically correct ladies reading this.] As I understand it, all Army wear a beret now. When I was in only Special Forces were permitted a beret. I stoop in a review at Pope AFB when President Kennedy visited and decreed that SF troops could wear the beret 'legally' ............................................................. We were given the cunt cap after jump school. It had a glider, parachute, insignia on it. I think WW II paratroopers wore that same cap. When I got to S.F. Training in 1970, I heard some stories of President Kennedy's visit there. Special forces were a pet project of his. All kinds of money was infused into Bragg after that for Special Forces. New barracks were built on Smoke Bomb Hill. The JFK school for special warfare was built. I wish I knew more on the history on that. Some of this is off the top of my head. There was one guy who supposedly bit the head off a rattlesnake to show how hard-core S.F. troops were, and impress Kennedy. Whether or not it was really a rattlesnake, I don't know. S.F. troops were sometimes called snake eaters.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Usetawuz 1 #5 January 30, 2009 Seems to me the 'Bus Driver' hat was the "Garrison Cap" and the cap wore by the Airborne was the 'Overseas Cap' ? _________________________________________ The older I get, the better I was! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #6 January 30, 2009 http://www.qando.net/details.aspx?Entry=6696 Here's an interesting discussion I came across...page down. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davidlayne 5 #7 January 30, 2009 QuoteSeems to me the 'Bus Driver' hat was the "Garrison Cap" and the cap wore by the Airborne was the 'Overseas Cap' ? Maybe its a terminology (or old age) thing but I googled "Garrison Cap' and came up with the following. http://images.google.com/images?sourceid=navclient&rlz=1T4SKPB_enUS262US262&q=garrison+cap&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&resnum=4&ct=titleI don't care how many skydives you've got, until you stepped into complete darkness at 800' wearing 95 lbs of equipment and 42 lbs of parachute, son you are still a leg! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #8 January 30, 2009 QuoteQuoteSeems to me the 'Bus Driver' hat was the "Garrison Cap" and the cap wore by the Airborne was the 'Overseas Cap' ? Maybe its a terminology (or old age) thing but I googled "Garrison Cap' and came up with the following. http://images.google.com/images?sourceid=navclient&rlz=1T4SKPB_enUS262US262&q=garrison+cap&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&resnum=4&ct=title ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guru312 0 #9 January 30, 2009 QuoteHere's an interesting discussion I came across... http://www.qando.net/details.aspx?Entry=6696 I agree. As ex-82nd I found it worth reading. Thanks for that link. It's interesting to note from the comments that the decades old leg/non-leg, attitude/arrogance discussions still exists. During my 3-year enlistment, I was lucky enough to be assigned to Headquarters Battery of the 82nd Division Artillery. Although my MOS was as a radio operator, I talked my way into being a writer and photographer for the Public Information Office, which was really 'press and public relations.' My photos and articles were meant to keep the 82nd in the news...and in a favorable light. I once flew from Ft. Bragg, NC to Yakima Firing Center in central Washington. There was a very big maneuver taking place and many thousands of troops were at the base. I was the only paratrooper. There were a number of sergeants and officers who wore jump wings but 99% of the troops saw me as some sort of strange freak. It was pretty funny, actually. With my tailored and bloused pants, mirror-finished, spit shined Corcoron jump boots and cunt-cap I stood out big-time at the PX... in the midst of a bunch of legs. Dozens of guys would come up to me and ask about jumping and jump school. Then again, some guys would almost jump out of the way when they saw me coming down the street. I always thought that was funny. The smug attitude and cocky demeanor that I had at Yakima disappeared very fast a few months later when guys from UDT 21 stayed in our barracks while going through jump school. UDT/SEAL teams would be billeted with 82nd units when attending jump school. We were all quite humiliated by those guys. They ran circles around us. Literally! On our morning runs, the entire 82nd Airborne would run--minus a few clerks, cooks and security personnel. The UDT guys didn't run with us: they ran around us, actually, physically, around our formations...at a speed much faster than our speed. Paratroopers are tough, with an attitude, but they don't compare to frogs. Ex-airborne and folks interested in Division stories may find this funny... and me stupid: [URL]http://www.aicommand.com/General%27s%20Driver.htm[/URL]Guru312 I am not DB Cooper Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 3 #10 January 30, 2009 QuoteQuote[ we called the modified cap 'a cunt cap'. [No offense meant, politically correct ladies reading this.] As I understand it, all Army wear a beret now. When I was in only Special Forces were permitted a beret. I stoop in a review at Pope AFB when President Kennedy visited and decreed that SF troops could wear the beret 'legally' ............................................................. We were given the cunt cap after jump school. It had a glider, parachute, insignia on it. I think WW II paratroopers wore that same cap. When I got to S.F. Training in 1970, I heard some stories of President Kennedy's visit there. Special forces were a pet project of his. All kinds of money was infused into Bragg after that for Special Forces. New barracks were built on Smoke Bomb Hill. The JFK school for special warfare was built. I wish I knew more on the history on that. Some of this is off the top of my head. There was one guy who supposedly bit the head off a rattlesnake to show how hard-core S.F. troops were, and impress Kennedy. Whether or not it was really a rattlesnake, I don't know. S.F. troops were sometimes called snake eaters.... Yup, and they still are! And every SF Group still has something to honor JFK on their uniforms... any guesses? Extra points if you DON'T cheat!"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zoobrothertom 5 #11 January 30, 2009 Hey Guru, Thanks for the info on the history of "Leg." Your's makes more sense than my thoughts at the time. I thought it was because they "Legged it" and we jumped in. I never wore an Airborne cunt cap. In the early 80's , the 82nd was already wearing maroon berets. I only saw them in old pictures. I volunteered for jump school in basic training. Strangely, after AIT (67Y - Cobra Mech), I was sent to the 9th ID in Washington state. I raised a few eyebrows at the reception center as an E-2 fresh from jump school. Even more during morning PT! I was in a good unit, 214th Combat Avn. Bn. But they were some lame mother fuckers when it came to PT!! About 9 months later, I managed to fanagle a transfer to the 82nd. I started skydivig at Ft. Lewis while in the 9th ID and moving to the 82nd definitely kick started my skydiving career! Airborne!! ____________________________________ I'm back in the USA!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zoobrothertom 5 #12 January 30, 2009 I'm game. Is it a presidential unit citation? I lived 3 years across the street from Group on smoke bomb hill, '83-'85. Did my first few skydives at Bragg upon arrival with the GB club before realizing I should be with the 82nd club. Silly Newby! ____________________________________ I'm back in the USA!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #13 January 30, 2009 Probably more to do with what General Yarborough was wearing when he met the President. Hint: Look at some of the photo's of the eternal flame at the Presidents grave. OF course it will have to be a photo taken the first day or two after the buriel. Matt Edited 'cause I goy my names backward. Must early on set of that thing that messes up your memory, oh hell, I forget what its called.An Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #14 January 30, 2009 I think that poster says it all Airtwardo. I had to laugh when I read it. I think everyone who ends up in an elite unit thinks they are the cat's "Meow". I remember walking through O'hair Airport with my bloused corcoran boots and green beret on my head and thinking I was pretty hot. Actually I was just a twenty year old kid who probably wasn't any tougher than a lot of folks. I have to agree Navy Seals went through a lot rougher training than I ever did. Sometimes having a big head is a good prior to going into combat. I'm glad I never had to do that. Guarison cap must be the correct name for that cap. Everyone called it the other name.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 3 #15 January 30, 2009 QuoteI'm game. Is it a presidential unit citation? nope... its worn with all duty uniforms... and each group has a different way of showing it"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #16 January 30, 2009 Maybe that is something new. I got out in 76. Are you referring to the different color of flash on your beret (which represents your group)? But I don't think that had much to do with JFK.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #17 January 30, 2009 Quote Quote I'm game. Is it a presidential unit citation? nope... its worn with all duty uniforms... and each group has a different way of showing it Trouser fly hanging open? ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #18 January 30, 2009 Yes, You are the winner Airtwardo. I used to do that all the time..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Usetawuz 1 #19 January 31, 2009 I can't argue. However, try googling (is that a verb?) "overseas cap and it gets confusing. _________________________________________ The older I get, the better I was! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guru312 0 #20 January 31, 2009 I googled and found a few pages of interest. Here is a page with pics of the "overseas cap" http://www.angelfire.com/md2/patches/other/airborne1.html Here is a page from the Ft. Lee quartermaster museum with links to lots of interesting jump wings and insignias: http://www.qmmuseum.lee.army.mil/airborne/ I didn't know about the really cool military freefall wings. They were issued long after my time. I like them. The hot tip for finding stuff relatively easily is to put as much in double quotes as you can and then add words which narrow the search. I searched using this without the brackets: ["overseas cap" airborne] Google will return pages which have the words in quotes in that exact order. Google allows for up to ten words in a search. The more that can be put in double quotes the easier to sort through the hits returned.Guru312 I am not DB Cooper Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #21 January 31, 2009 http://images.google.com/images?sourceid=navclient&rlz=1T4GGLG_enUS308US308&q=garrison%20cap&hl=en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi Or just hit the image only search function... ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guru312 0 #22 January 31, 2009 QuoteI recently received a PM from someone enquiring as to the history behind the term "Leg" as used in my signature. Given some of the comments in this thread I thought today's Quote of the Day on Slashdot.org to be particularly appropriate: QuoteYou should never wear your best trousers when you go out to fight for freedom and liberty. -- Henrik IbsenGuru312 I am not DB Cooper Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #23 February 13, 2009 "It doesn't explain why or how the airborne began doing that in the first place. Oddly, only MPs and airborne were permitted to do the 'pants leg' tuck thing into their boots." The blousing came about because of the Leggings. Leggings where used to keep bugs and dirt out of the lower legs during excercises and combat operations, but not worn in Garrison. The original Boots used by the Infantry where lower and provided little to no ankle support, so not ideal for Paratroopers. Tankers had just gotten a new boot that was taller but had buckles across the arch, not good for jumping. The Tanker Boot was modified for Airborne Troops and the Cocharan Jump Boot was developed. Since the jump boot was providing the ankle support and bug protection, with the pants bloused into the top of the boots to keep the dirt and bugs out, leggings where dropped by the Paratroopers . This also allowed them to show of the new Paratrooper Boots that only they had authorization (although officially it was not authorized till later) to wear. And today they still blouse the pant legs in to Jump Boots. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piper17 1 #24 February 13, 2009 I think that is "Corcoran" jump boots....and I still have the scars on the front of my shins from the constant blisters from double-timing in them. Those boots were giving me blisters on my shins and heels even when they were falling apart of long usage and old age. Pretty looking and held a good spit shine but that was about it as far as I was concerned."A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #25 February 13, 2009 Spelling shmelling. Matt An Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
