warpedskydiver 0 #26 June 10, 2008 Who did low pulls....nobody I ever heard of...But then again, they knew what they were doing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jonstark 8 #27 June 10, 2008 Dogeater used to hold onto the unsuspecting for a little thrill at break-off. He did it to me a couple of times when I was inexperienced and it scared me which he kind of enjoyed. He tried it later on but when I grinned back maniacally and gripped him even harder he never did it again. No harm no foul. Used to be the DZO could time your canopy ride to bust you but not any more. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zoobrothertom 5 #28 June 10, 2008 Wow! I finally checked back in to see who posted. There's some good stuff in the posts above. I have no problem exiting with or without airspeed at 2000 ft. I've done both. I do think learning or jumping regularly from a Cessna played an important before AFF. I took a girl on her 100th jump for a rodeo ride. She was an AFF grad and had never pulled below 3.5k. She was rather hesitant to jump with one of the CRW Dawgs. Once convinced, on the ground, I taught her how to swing onto my back. On the jump I started tracking and she really got into it. As we went through 3K, I started waiting for her to freak out and kick off. No such luck. She was totally into it and un-altitude aware! At 2.5, I rolled her off and watched her pull with a big "OH SHIT" look on her face. Priceless. Shortest canopy ride from a terminal velocity pull for me skydivng has been about 15 seconds. Not hero material, but definitely fun! ____________________________________ I'm back in the USA!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcecil 0 #29 June 10, 2008 QuoteUsed to be the DZO could time your canopy ride to bust you but not any more. I've watched a BASE jumper freepack his BASE canopy into a skydiving rig and pull. . . around or below 1000' before after exiting at 9500' . . . funny thing was he was a light guy with a big parachute on a hot day, most of the people who opened at normal altitude beat him to the ground! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #30 June 10, 2008 QuoteI've watched a BASE jumper freepack his BASE canopy into a skydiving rig and pull. . . around or below 1000' before after exiting at 9500' . . Opening a base canopy at terminal, at 1000 feet, free packed show how little he knows about canopies. Sad. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #31 June 10, 2008 QuoteQuoteI've watched a BASE jumper freepack his BASE canopy into a skydiving rig and pull. . . around or below 1000' before after exiting at 9500' . . Opening a base canopy at terminal, at 1000 feet, free packed show how little he knows about canopies. Sad. Sounds pretty conservative to me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #32 June 10, 2008 QuoteQuoteI've watched a BASE jumper freepack his BASE canopy into a skydiving rig and pull. . . around or below 1000' before after exiting at 9500' . . Opening a base canopy at terminal, at 1000 feet, free packed show how little he knows about canopies. Sad. Sparky Care to elaborate Sparky?"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
980 0 #33 June 10, 2008 QuoteOpening a base canopy at terminal, at 1000 feet, free packed show how little he knows about canopies. Sad. Why exactly? Please be specific. Are you saying that freepacked BASE canopies are not designed to be deployed at terminal velocity below 1000ft? I think if anything, your statement shows how little you know about modern BASE gear. Sad. cya sam Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #34 June 10, 2008 QuoteI think if anything, your statement shows how little you know about modern BASE gear. Sad. There is no modern “base” gear. Anything you are using today is just a rehash of things used 25+ years ago. The tail pocket, mesh slider to the meticulous flat pack. As for “free packing” I have over 500 jumps with free packing. How many do you have? Until you know my knowledge you might want to save your “sad”. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
980 0 #35 June 10, 2008 That is exactly my point, you do not know the knowledge of the base jumper mentioned earlier. As for me, I have 633 base jumps with freepacked canopies, so I'm going to chalk that up as a win for me as far as who has more experience with jumping freepacked canopies. By your definition of modern gear, there are is no modern skydiving gear either. Sure, BASE gear started out as standard skydiving gear that was used and packed differently, but it evolved and refined the things taken from the skydiving gear. The tailgate for example was a BASE specific evolution. As for the meticulous flat pack, if you do really mean a flat pack like back in the day, almost no-one packs like that for BASE anymore. The majority of base jumpers use the modern reserve PRO pack method, with a few small differences. My 'sad' was directed at your 'sad', not a stab at your knowledge, which it is apparent you have a lot of. That is why I would actually like to know what you think makes deploying a freepacked BASE canopy below 1000ft such a bad idea? So let's put our egos aside here and discuss the point that has been raised please. I have not personally jumped much of the gear from 25+ years ago, but I know of it and I have seen some, so I feel I can confidently say that 25+ years ago there were no parachutes as reliable, well performing or durable as modern day BASE canopies. If you doubt this, I will gladly show my modern BASE gear and let you skydive it for yourself if we are ever in the same vicinity. I will even buy you a beer if would get you to elaborate on your earlier statement. cya sam Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #36 June 10, 2008 Quoteso I'm going to chalk that up as a win for me as far as who has more experience with jumping freepacked canopies. I am talking about terminal openings, not 3 sec. delays. Big difference. QuoteThe tailgate for example was a BASE specific evolution. Tail pocket or as you say “tailgate” was an invention of Hank Ascuitto in the early 80’s to control lines during deployment on free packed mains. Had nothing to do with BASE. QuoteThe majority of BASEjumpers use the modern reserve PRO pack method, with a few small differences. As a rigger you know that is just a version of the flat pack. Quotethere were no parachutes as reliable, well performing or durable as modern day BASE canopies. What is the difference between old 7 cells and “modern day BASE canopies”? Quotethink makes deploying a freepacked BASE canopy below 1000ft such a bad idea. Jumping any gear packed anyway and deploying at 1000 feet at terminal is a bad idea. QuoteSo let's put our egos aside here No ego involved, just facts. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GreenLight 5 #37 June 11, 2008 "You got a deal. I was trained by Terry Ward. Sparky" Welcome back to the sport Mike! Green Light "Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there." "Your statement answered your question." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #38 June 11, 2008 QuoteWelcome back to the sport Mike! I no longer jump but I do remember how the sport evolved. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gene03 0 #39 June 11, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Quote Do it without the CYPRES..... Now we are talking. Want to play? Sparky You bet! No altimeters~ no goggles! ...First one to pull, buys the last on to pull (if alive) free booze all night! You got a deal. Sparky Weary Toad? Wasn't his Mantra? Smoke it down, Pull low, Open High.“The only fool bigger than the person who knows it all is the person who argues with him. Stanislaw Jerzy Lec quotes (Polish writer, poet and satirist 1906-1966) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdatc 0 #40 June 11, 2008 QuoteThe tailgate for example was a BASE specific evolution. QuoteTail pocket or as you say “tailgate” was an invention of Hank Ascuitto in the early 80’s to control lines during deployment on free packed mains. Had nothing to do with BASE. Just to hit this fact, tailgates and tailpockets are 2 different animals. The tail pocket helps to organize deployment by containing the suspension lines even though the canopy is free-packed in the tray The Tail Gate is a device that controls the steering lines before and during deployment. It's purpose is to prevent line over malfunctions on slider removed BASE jumps http://www.basicresearch.com/tailgate.htm http://apexbase.com/store/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=58 Look an old basic research article found by google! FWIW, I have a wingsuit rig in which I free-pack a base canopy with a mesh slider, non-collapsable pilot chute, long bridle and base specific ZP PC....... It's fun, and it can open faster than heck! I often shuffle back and forth between a free-pack and a Dbag on that rig depending on my deployment height..... _justin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fastphil 0 #41 June 11, 2008 QuoteQuoteI think if anything, your statement shows how little you know about modern BASE gear. Sad. There is no modern “base” gear. Anything you are using today is just a rehash of things used 25+ years ago. The tail pocket, mesh slider to the meticulous flat pack. As for “free packing” I have over 500 jumps with free packing. How many do you have? Until you know my knowledge you might want to save your “sad”. Sparky Guess I don't get it either. I understand being at a grand at terminal is spicey place to be, but it seems like a freepacked canopy would be a good thing. I have 600 or so terminal freepacked openings, all of which were fast, straight and reliable... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #42 June 11, 2008 QuoteThat is why I would actually like to know what you think makes deploying a freepacked BASE canopy below 1000ft such a bad idea? Nothing, out of a properly designed BASE rig. OTOH we've seen fatalities in the last couple years from bag packed skydiving mains in skydiving containers where line(s) hitched themselves around a snag happy flap. I *think* thats what Sparky might be getting at.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #43 June 11, 2008 QuoteOTOH we've seen fatalities in the last couple years from bag packed skydiving mains in skydiving containers where line(s) hitched themselves around a snag happy flap. I *think* thats what Sparky might be getting at. And you would be right. I had it happen to in 1980 with a free packed main. My next jump had a tail pocket in place courtesy of Hank. To this day I am convinced a diapered reserve saved my ass. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #44 June 11, 2008 Quote Just to hit this fact, tailgates and tailpockets are 2 different animals. The tail pocket helps to organize deployment by containing the suspension lines even though the canopy is free-packed in the tray The Tail Gate is a device that controls the steering lines before and during deployment. It's purpose is to prevent line over malfunctions on slider removed BASE jumps Thank you for the information. I stand corrected. A BASE jumper sometime ago explained it to me as a tail pocket and I took his word for it. You can learn something everyday if you pay attention. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
980 0 #45 June 12, 2008 Now it makes sense. BASEjumpers these days use the term freepacked to indicate not using a POD/Sleeve/Dbag. Tailpockets have been standard on BASE canopies now for well over a decade, so I got the impression the other poster meant a BASE canopy with a tailpocket but without a Dbag. Is it in your opinion still such a bad idea given the use of a tailpocket? PS - standard BASE wingloading is 0.75 lbs/sq.ft. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcecil 0 #46 June 12, 2008 QuoteTailpockets have been standard on BASE canopies now for well over a decade, so I got the impression the other poster meant a BASE canopy with a tailpocket but without a Dbag. That is correct, lines were stowed in a tailpocket. Jacob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zoobrothertom 5 #47 June 12, 2008 Quote Who did low pulls....nobody I ever heard of...----------------------------------------------------------- "I didn't pull low." "Yes, you damn well did. When you pulled, I could count all the fingers on your left hand!" "Oh, okay. So, next time if I make my left hand into a fist it's okay?" Bill Bright(ness), BASE jumper and Skydive Houston CReW Dawg, discussing his 'maybe' low pull with the DZO on a lazy Friday afternoon. Oh, it was low alright. The ants were scattering on this one. ____________________________________ I'm back in the USA!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #48 June 12, 2008 Quote Quote Who did low pulls....nobody I ever heard of...----------------------------------------------------------- "I didn't pull low." "Yes, you damn well did. When you pulled, I could count all the fingers on your left hand!" "Oh, okay. So, next time if I make my left hand into a fist it's okay?" Bill Bright(ness), BASE jumper and Skydive Houston CReW Dawg, discussing his 'maybe' low pull with the DZO on a lazy Friday afternoon. Oh, it was low alright. The ants were scattering on this one. Years ago...I had a bit of a 'reputation' for occasionally fudging on the rules in this area. My gear was an accuracy canopy with a 1/2 mesh slider and a frap strap, with pull-out PC - old style 1st generation wonderdog. Pulling the twinkie opened the pack tray and with the frap strap, openings were 'brisk' to say the least ... it was like hanging the pilotchute on a hook as ya fell past it...At ole Jim 'roundman' Delap's 'DZ & BBQ stand'....one evening we had 100 bucks on the first one to dead center the disk on the sunset load. I won the money but got drenched in Budweiser for: ~pullin' stupid low...Roundman said he 'had me on the clock' and it was less than 5 seconds under canopy...I mention to him that he wasn't wearing a watch...Delap just shook his head and said~ "I was watching the second hand on YOURS!" ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
in2jumping 0 #49 June 14, 2008 Quote No, we swoop 'cuz chicks dig it! Chicks dig guys on crutches or in wheelchairs? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dudeman17 267 #50 June 18, 2008 Quote Tail pocket or as you say “tailgate” was an invention of Hank Ascuitto in the early 80’s to control lines during deployment on free packed mains. Had nothing to do with BASE. Actually, Hank did not invent the line stow pocket. It was invented by someone at Para-Flite, I think Elek Puskas or Jake Brake if I had to hazard a guess, when they came out with the first square reserves, the Safety Star and the Safety Flyer, and it was on the side of the deployment bag as it is today. Hank, Al Frisby and a few others adapted it to the tail for freepacked mains. Al put one on my canopy when i got my first square about that time. I was the one who then brought it to BASE jumping, well over two and a half decades ago, when BASE jumping was first beginning. The other reply about the tail pocket and the tailgate being two different things is correct. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
