DB Cooper

[SKYWHUFFO 0]

Quade,

Does or has Perris done night jet jumps? regularly?

Too many jello shots at night at WFFC, did they do a night one there? I have one WFFC jet jump but went back to the cheaper tailgates after that one.

I think you and the Conister's need to extend a couple of invites to Ckret and a couple others for somthing no other FBI Agent on the case has experience, what Cooper did and felt when he stepped off that platform. in the form of a Tandem out of the jet, heck, get it cleared and take em at night and ckret can really walk thru it all. CKRET you in? Quade what's the odds of since you are in Perris of helping getting a VIP jump being pulled off?

[dumstuntzz 0]

interesting post. you also bring up a point i hadnt thought of "suppose he got both chutes out?" that would drastically affet his drift and throw his probable landing zone off.

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

Being an arch-whuffo, I'm a little (or a lot) confused about the reference to "both Chutes out".

Somebody help me out here.

Sluggo_Monster

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[Sluggo_Monster 0]

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Part of the plan or co-inky-dink?

jumpin_Jan,

You a Red Slelton fan, picked that up from someone else, or is it just a co-inky-dink?

Sluggo_Monster

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[Sluggo_Monster 0]

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Were stairway lights off?

jumpin_Jan ,

According to the transcript (page 98 @6:21 PM PST) his request/demand was for ALL lights to be turned off in aircraft {Emphasis mine}.

So, assuming they complied, they were off.


Sluggo_Monster

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[ltdiver 3]

Quote

Being an arch-whuffo, I'm a little (or a lot) confused about the reference to "both Chutes out".

Somebody help me out here.

Sluggo_Monster

Both chutes out means both canopies out at the same time.

In a dual pack system like we have now it happens occasionally (usually by mistake and can easily cause a fatality when they interfere with each other).

However, since it's believed that Cooper took only one parachute out the door with him that night the subject's moot here.

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[Guru312 0]

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As a skydiver Quade, and a young one, yes, I admit, I think it would be good for the skydiving community and for the case to have its own forum.

This has been discussed before. This will not happen.

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Knowing that skydiving is hurting membership wise, a little publicity on this case wouldn't help but to get more people interested.

If we gave the topic any MORE publicity, it wouldn't need its own forum, it would need its own cable news channel. As for it generating more actual members of the skydiving community, uh, gee, maybe we should get the USPA to start a forum.

No!

We should convince Sangrio that what he needs is a moderator who has a clue.

Every single view of the DB Cooper thread--either thread!-- is WONDERFUL for skydiving.

Every single view here in this DB Copper thread--by wuffos particularly!--represents a person who could spend money in our sport. Safe, Sluggo and all the wuffos---who choose not to jump at this point in their lives, may decide to jump---and that's good for parachuting. Every DB-curious wuffo who visits *here* is a potential buck for a DZO, even it's only the sale of a hot dog, a soda and a T-shirt.

Quade, didn't you read my posts or my essay about my DB advertisement and how many students I got because of the buzz? I got hundreds of new students because of DB Cooper. My crazy DB ad stayed on the bulletin board at Ripcord for over four years because it helped all of us in the DZ business.

DB Cooper was good for us DZOs in 1971 and DB Cooper can only be good for DZOs in 2008.

To NOT create a "All About DB Cooper" subject forum within "Skydiving" here on DropZone.com is counter-productive for the entire community.

And Quade, your comment about creating a USPA-sponsored DB Cooper forum--which you clearly meant in jest--is actually a pretty smart idea. Some enterprising web-savvy person at USPA headquarters should add a DB Cooper section to the USPA web site containing sections on the site for FAQ, History, Facts and wild-assed speculations.

Sangrio, please think about doing this. It can only make things better around here.

This the Internet! The more page views here, in this DB Cooper thread... the better for the entire jumping community.

Guru312

I am not DB Cooper

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

Ckret,

Please don’t blow this off, I think it is important.

We, (the public) obviously do not have all of the transcript of the conversation between the 305 flight crew and NW Flt-Ops. ATC, GC, etc. This is obvious from the missing page #s. From the transcript that we have, we see a request for two back-pack chutes only.

What I’d like for you to confirm is whether or not Cooper requested the “front” chutes.

It appears that he certainly did, because you have placed so much importance on his selection of the “good” chest chute to cut up for cord. But, ever seeking the facts, I have no evidence that he even wanted them.

While I’m talking about this issue, let me give you some insight to the frustration of someone like me (who was aware of the hijacking in real-time, and has followed the story (closely) since about 1975 (pre-internet)). I want facts, not myths, but with gaps like the one previously mentioned, how can I separate the two? I have to ask myself, how much information is out there, being withheld (probably for “righteous” reasons) that would help me understand what actually happened?

I don’t know if I have posted this before (I know I have mentioned it in PMs), but, I “fear the myth” so much that I have, intentionally never read any of the books about the hijacking, whether documentary or fiction. I wish I had never seen any of the TV programs and read few magazine/newspaper articles.

Also, there have been a lot of LE records released recently and I am grateful for that. But, with the crime (and it was a crime) in its 37th year, is there a chance of more information being released to the public?


Sluggo_Monster (getting ready for NASCAR)

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[Orange1 0]

Quote

Quade,

Does or has Perris done night jet jumps? regularly?

Too many jello shots at night at WFFC, did they do a night one there? I have one WFFC jet jump but went back to the cheaper tailgates after that one.

I think you and the Conister's need to extend a couple of invites to Ckret and a couple others for somthing no other FBI Agent on the case has experience, what Cooper did and felt when he stepped off that platform. in the form of a Tandem out of the jet, heck, get it cleared and take em at night and ckret can really walk thru it all. CKRET you in? Quade what's the odds of since you are in Perris of helping getting a VIP jump being pulled off?

Well now, this should be interesting. I have a feeling that a request to do a tandem night jump out the jet would probably be vetoed - and that itself (bearing in mind this is over a nice big safe landing area) should give the whuffos some idea of how dangerous the jump would have been. If it can get approved because some super-experienced TI gets it approved, then i really do believe ckret, safe et al should take the opportunity and go!

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

Guru312 et. al,

Just to chime in with the “Arch-Whuffo" (a term I coined just this morning) perspective I would like to go on record saying:

I am extremely grateful to this site. It has been very helpful in the pursuit of a hobby I have had for 30+ years. That hobby has nothing to do with skydiving except for the fact it was a tool Cooper used (maybe that should be called “slydiving”).

For many years I had a co-worker (Lee Silcox, Richland SkySports, WA) who was a skydiver and I never once discuss the hijacking or the possibility of me jumping with him However, since I’ve spent so much time on this forum, I have begun to explore the possibility of at least a tandem jump. Yesterday was my 60th birthday, and last week I gave the thought some serious scrutiny. Why the difference? I feel like I’m a part of the community. With the exception of one event, where I got my feelings hurt, I have been tolerated, and even welcomed into the community.

If this site had a forum dedicated to serious 305 Hijacking research, with individual threads for Facts, Myths, LE Updates, Q&A, Ckret’s Bank-Robber escapades, I would be willing to pay a reasonable subscription. You already have the “Premier Membership” structure, it could just be a part of that.

Now about quade: quade has been a pain-in-the ass to me on several occasions. But, recently I got some insight into what he’s all about. If I was Sangrio, I would want someone who has DZ.com’s interest in mind when moderating a thread. Especially this thread which has probably a higher whoffo population that any other. If quade was a “Real Cooper enthusiast” we would have “gypsies in the castle” for sure. He’s cynical, harsh, rude, crude, socially unacceptable, but he looks after DZ.com, and that’s what’s important. (Sorry about that quade, but I don’t want to look like I’m sucking-up to you!
I imagine there are other Mega-Whuffos out there with similar feelings.

Sluggo_Monster (just happy to be here)

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[novalis 0]

to our moderator and to those engaged in the discussion:

i wonder if technically our moderator could put all the discussion that has taken place on dan cooper into one thread?

it would also be very useful if when some one says, "i discussed this already" he (or she) could refer to the number of the posting.

without a number such references are a bit general when one considers, that on this thread alone, there are already almost 50 pages of messages.

so my questions: could one thread be made of the several?
would those referring to earlier contributions please give the number of the message?

one last question. from the context i have an idea of what a "whuffo" is. still i would appreciate a definition.
thanks.
novalis

ps
happy birthday sluggo.

[ryoder 1,381]

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- Cooper used non jumper language two fronts and two backs

Every experienced jumper has two separate vocabularies:
a) The one he uses with other experienced jumpers.
b) The one he uses with whuffos (non-jumpers).

Jumpers of that era often referred to a front-mount reserve as a "QAC", from the military designation "Quick-Attachable-Chest". They would never have used a term like that with non-jumpers, because they would have immediately needed to explain it. Much simpler to use a term the whuffo will understand.

So in determining if there is significance in the terminology he used, you must look at the context of who he was speaking to.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

Agreed with Sluggo...

Hanging out on a skydiving site for months on end has an influence. I now have a few minutes worth of FF experience and I plan on getting that up in the HOURS.

[NickDG 23]

>>Some enterprising web-savvy person at USPA headquarters
Too bad there's no such person . . .

I agree with everything else you said.

I'm sure there would be some buyers for "The DB Cooper Experience" via tandem out of the jet. And it would get Perris, and the sport, a million dollars worth of free publicity.

We tried (and failed) selling skydiving by all the traditional methods, "It's a family sport," (it's not,) "It's the sport of the space age." (it wasn't,) "It's mainstream," (it never will be.)

But some of our best and most successful inroads with the public came from pure schlock, and the hokeyer the better. The Flying Elvis(s), the movie Point Break, even Santa Clause demos are still popular.

USPA has been hand wringing for years over officially changing their name. They might as well become the DB Cooper Association and be done with it . . .

We could have coopsuits instead of jumpsuits - fake black suits with painted on narrow tie, and yes you keep the tie clasp instead of getting a first jump certificate.

Cooper numbers?

NickD

[ryoder 1,381]

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We tried (and failed) selling skydiving by all the traditional methods, "It's a family sport," (it's not,) ...

That all depends on how dysfunctional your family is, and how you define "family".

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[Guru312 0]

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We could have coopsuits instead of jumpsuits - fake black suits with painted on narrow tie, and yes you keep the tie clasp instead of getting a first jump certificate.

Cooper numbers?

NickD

I started this thread dealing with night tandem: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1637282;search_string=night%20tandem;#1637282

Given USPA's position against night tandem, I doubt any wuffos will be riding a night tandem from a 727. As a money maker, night tandems from a 727 could work for a very short while but I doubt too many non-jumpers would want to endure the exit more than once.

Guru312

I am not DB Cooper

[Ckret 0]

Cooper said to Schaffner, "Take this down." These are Cooper exact words as spoken to Schaffner:

"I want $200,000 by 5:00 PM in cash. Put it in a knapsack. I want two back parachutes and two front parachutes. When we land, I want a fuel truck ready to refuel. No funny stuff, or I'll do the job."

[snowmman 3]

If it was an MST3K riff, at this point the bots and Joel would all yell "ACTING!"
(cause it's obvious the character is acting how he thinks a people expect a bank robber to talk).

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No funny stuff, or I'll do the job."

[Albert18 0]

Regarding Sluggo's comment about the missing communication logs, here is something that bothers me about the flight.

Operations tells the flight crew that it is important for them to land as soon as Cooper jumps. Ops tells them he could jump and blow the plane up. This is the logical threat. You can't assume the bomb is a fake and why would Cooper take the bomb with him.

So why didn't the flight crew's actions match the threat? Why did they go tooling through the skies all the way to Reno? Medford was discussed or they could have put the airplane down in Portland.

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

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Cooper said to Schaffner, "Take this down." These are Cooper exact words as spoken to Schaffner:

"I want $200,000 by 5:00 PM in cash. Put it in a knapsack. I want two back parachutes and two front parachutes. When we land, I want a fuel truck ready to refuel. No funny stuff, or I'll do the job."

Ckret,

Thanks.

So, even what I have of the comm. log is incomplete?

Where do I get the rest? FOIA?

Sluggo_Monster

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[skyjack71 0]

[replyBoeing had several fatal crashes: I am only going to list the ones I consider important for my purposes.

* 08/16/65 Chicago
* 11/08/65 Kentucky
* 11/11/65 Salt Lake
* 07.19/67 Henderson N.C.
* 01/18/67 Los Angles CA
* 09/21/67 Mexico

What if Cooper had a family member who died in one of the crashes.

These crashes - what was the origination , stops and destinations.?

The names of ALL on board along with survivors and fatalities needs to be located.

[Orange1 0]

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So, even what I have of the comm. log is incomplete?

Where do I get the rest? FOIA?

FOIA files on DB Cooper are available on the FBI website, though as I understand these are not "everything" - ckret correct me if i am wrong on this.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Orange1 0]

Jo, here. Post 1108, Apr 4!

http://www.answers.com/topic/boeing-727

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Ckret 0]

you don't need a FOIA request, just ask me. As for publishing FBI work product, such as the actual interviews, i cannot imagine that would ever happen.

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

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Operations tells the flight crew that it is important for them to land as soon as Cooper jumps. Ops tells them he could jump and blow the plane up. This is the logical threat. You can't assume the bomb is a fake and why would Cooper take the bomb with him.

The 727 jockey that I get info from occasionally had the same comment. Why didn’t they land at Portland, Medford, or some other suitable field. This was even before he saw the log transcript.

My guess is they didn’t want to go aft.

- If they had gone aft they would have known he was gone.

- If they had known he was gone, they would not have risked landing at Reno with the aft door down and stairs extended.

- Were they later told (not on our transcript) to go to Reno for the LE "Suprise Party"? Even so, wouldn't they "clean up the plane" to save fuel, get well above stall speed, and get there faster?

Does that make sense to anyone else?

Somewhere in the transcript, I saw that they had done a cursory inspection of the passenger cabin.

If they did, they knew he was gone.

If they knew he was gone, why did they land at Reno with the aft door down and stairs extended?

Ckret,

If any or all of the above is true, what is it that we don’t know (understand)? Whether I believe it or not, whether it fits my scenario or not, it has to be logical. The above isn’t logical.

Tell us… What’s up with that?

Sluggo_Monster

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