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(edited)

Funny when I respond fairly intelligently to things like, 'He doesn't match the evidence,' or 'everyone lied'...or just lay the truth on you, 

(As opposed to the hateful crap some of you like to post about me and mine under your phony identities.)

It gets REAL quiet for a while. 

You guys are good at dishing it out, but you don't how to handle a guy like me. You never could. And you probably never will. :shockedcat:

On a happier note, Reddit UFO just accepted and approved our News release on this July's event. We just reached a half-million Reddit users. Woo hoo. I discussed some issues with SUFON and informed them that 75 people wasn't THAT many people...and if we are going to spend the same amount of money we did last year, we want max attendance to make it worth it. Even reaching all those UFO folks, it is doubtful we will actually get 75 people willing to drive out so far for the party anyway. But you never know. I may have to increase the BBQ budget and spread people out down to the secondary site. But at the main gathering spot we are limited to 75. We're even creating both a SUFON and a DB Cooper flag for this one. Not my idea but I like it. I was shown how you can create designs on your computer, transfer them to those T-shirt templates you iron on, and then iron them onto blank cotton material. Then you just press in some grommets. Genius. I never would have thought of it. I will design the Cooper Flag. B) The SUFON flag design is already locked down. We will just use the one already being used at Mary K's SUFON stuff for sale website. 

"Don't change the plan. Don't mess with success..." My old man used to hammer that one into me and I never forgot it. How do you pull something this crazy off successfully? Simple. You provide the financing and the central leadership for it...and then start delegating some of the planning to others. This brings them into the process and not only they...but their friends start getting excited about it. Be inclusive as you can. 

Because SUFON is going along with everything so far, and agrees to my request on NOT limiting attendance to less than 75 people, I have removed the expiration date from the AB website to apply to attend. But it WILL be taken down when I feel we have reached max capacity...with a few extra tossed in for the usual no-shows. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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(edited)

Before you jump in and say I didn't reach a half-million users at Reddit, let me say that the slots are filling fast. I confirmed a few more people right away. I'm sure the inbox will be busy tomorrow. 

Yes, I did:(

I don't even mention Cooper in the News Flash. Why should I? Anyone who follows Cooper already knows about this one already. But making it official on Reddit requires some participation by Cooperland. I have not seen that, except for Kyle D, myself, and a few Cooper fans. 

I did mention Cooper in comments, but he's taking more and more of a back seat these days. 

I don't like it, but I can roll with it. Maybe it's just as I said. Interest in Cooper is draining away, and no efforts to bring in new people are being made. Well...I try anyway. Not that you deserve it. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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(edited)

Excerpt from recent article..

 https://www.smokejumpers.com/index.php/smokejumpermagazine/getitem/articles_id=443

by Johnny Kirkley, his account of jumps/drops from a 727 in was also written about many years ago but never mentioned the flaps 15, landing gear down and speed, though it was a static jump. Frankly, it sounds like revisionism perhaps after talking to Edwards earlier. However, the story is important and may have been where Cooper got the idea. He may have been part of it directly or indirectly. IMO, Kirkley added the plane config to make the story fit Cooper better but it doesn't diminish the potential relationship.

 

 

In May 1968, I was scheduled to "The Ranch" for a special project. Ranch operations were always on a hush-hush, need-to-know basis. When hired by the CIA, all employees are required to sign a non-disclosure agreement. You promise not to reveal any information relating to "intelligence sources or methods" without first securing authorization. The slightest violation would compel threats of prosecution and severe consequences. No copy of this document was given to the employee. Clearance levels were granted for special ops as you were vetted.

At "The Ranch" details of the mission were given when you arrived on site. We were told that the training was for testing the feasibility of making aerial deliveries into Tibet. This highly secret project was the first of its kind. We were to drop cargo and jump out of a Southern Air Transport "sanitized" Boeing 727 jet. The tail number was the only marking on this stark aluminum plane.

The team included Lou Rucker (OSS/CIA), T.J. Thompson (MSO-55/CIA), Bob Herald (MSO-55/ AFS), Fred Barnowski (MSO-42/CIA), Jack Manska (CIA), Bill Welk (727 pilot), Jim Rhyne (Volpar Turbo Beech pilot), Johnny Kirkley (CJ-64/AFS), Billy Bowles (RDD-57/AFS), and a couple other "Kickers."
The passenger compartment of the 727 was fitted with roller conveyers to transport the cargo out the rear for drops. The rear stairwell was removed and retrofitted with stainless sheet metal to make a sliding board. The cargo was loaded in large cardboard boxes rigged with parachutes and tied to pallets atop the roller conveyers. The process of aerial delivery was the same as in other aircraft. The load to be dropped on each pass was untied and moved to the rear against a nylon strap. When the pilot gave the order to drop, the strap was cut and the load was pushed out the rear.

The cargo drops went without a hitch. Then we suited up for our parachute jump. We leveled off at 1200 feet. The cabin was depressurized, flaps were set at about 15°, the landing gear was lowered to create drag to maintain 150 knots, and the exit ramp was lowered. When we got over the jump spot, the pilot gave the signal and we slid out the rear of the plane. Compared to jumping out of a prop plane, there was no noise or prop blast. It was quiet and there was hardly a jerk when the static cord released. We floated down with the greatest of ease. Knowing what to expect, we were all excited to make a second jump. The tests went well and the project was approved and ready to go. However, the funding was cut and the 727 Tibet project was cancelled, much to our chagrin.

Postscript: Fast forward to Monday morning, November 29, 1971. When I retired from Air America in August 1969, the "Call of the Wild" lured me to Alaska. I decided to put my University of Alabama Bachelor of Science business degree to use. I had just begun the second year of owning and operating the Polar Bar on East 5th Avenue in Anchorage. I was having a cup of coffee and talking with a customer when two suits walked through the door. They showed me their FBI badges and said they were investigating a Northwest Airline Boeing 727 skyjacking on the night before Thanksgiving. They knew I had jumped out of a 727 with Air America and wanted to ask me a few questions. Since their statement was correct, I assumed they had been talking to the CIA. First, they wanted to know where I was on Wednesday night. When I explained I was working the bar they showed me a drawing of Dan Cooper, asking if I knew him. I said it did resemble Lou Banta (CJ-51), a smokejumper I had worked with at Air America, but he wasn't on the 727 jump project in Thailand. As a coincidence, Louie happened to live in Oregon not far from where Cooper supposedly exited the plane. However, after being investigated, Banta was exonerated. We had a good laugh in Portland at the 2008 Air America Reunion. D.B. Cooper became a cult hero and remains the only unsolved skyjacking in American aviation history. In past years a standing joke at Smokejumper and Air America reunions was, "D.B. Cooper Lives!"

 

..........

This is the earlier piece where he did NOT note the plane configuration and named Louie Banta (CJ-51), (he was researched and exonerated)

https://dc.ewu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1085&context=smokejumper_mag

 

Kirkley was later selected as one of seven air-freight specialists sent to Takhli, Thailand, on a secret mission to train to jump and drop freight from a commercial Boeing 727 jet. “There was unrest in Tibet on the Chinese border and the CIA wanted to do some tests to see if it was feasible to make high-altitude drops of paratroopers and cargo from a 727,” he said.

After making a few jumps and dropping several loads of cargo, Kirkley said the mission was eventually scrubbed.

“Fast-forward to the first week in December of 1971 in Anchorage, Alaska,” Kirkley said, continuing his story about being trained to jump from the back of a Boeing 727. “I was in my second year of owning and operating the Polar Bar on Fifth Avenue in downtown Anchorage. I was having a cup of coffee and talking
to a customer when two men dressed in suits entered the bar. They showed me their FBI identifications and told me that they were investigating a skyjacking that had taken place in Portland, Ore., on Nov. 24, the day before Thanksgiving.

“A man called D.B. Cooper had extorted the airline out of $200,000 and jumped from the rear of a Boeing 727 over Oregon. They told me they knew that I had jumped out of a 727 when I was working with Air America,” he said.

“They then showed me a picture of the suspect and asked if I recognized him. I told him that he looked like Louie Banta (CJ-51), who had been a smokejumper in Oregon and worked with me in Air America, although I didn’t recall him being one of the seven who jumped on the 727 project in Thailand. As it turned out, Louie also lived in Oregon, where D.B. Cooper deplaned, but Banta was thoroughly exoner- ated and Cooper has never been found.

“Over the years since, it has become a standing joke at smokejumper and Air America reunions that D.B. Cooper lives,” Kirkley laughed, adding that his close friend and former Alabama track teammate Charley Moseley was also questioned by the FBI about the still- unsolved D.B. Cooper incident.

Edited by FLYJACK

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(edited)

It is feasible that someone from Air America was Cooper. But one thing that puts me off that idea, or the idea Cooper was (recent) ex-military is his manner of dress. I think of him as low budget. Cheap suit, raincoat, loafers...these kinds of things make me believe Cooper was really desperate for money. We know he had some kind of parachute experience, but I believe he hadn't jumped in a long time and that he was probably ex-military. He was also broke, I think. And lived pretty frugally, and was probably desperate. Sure...this could describe Christiansen, but it could also describe lots of other folks in the Puget Sound area in 1971. I lived through those layoffs in Seattle and I saw what happened to everyone. Boeing execs were taking jobs flipping burgers at McDonald's. Some guys committed suicide. Divorces were rampant. People moved away. No one, it seemed, had any money. My own father had to take job pulling 4x8 plywood sheets off a dryer line for five bucks an hour and we got Food Stamps. It was rough. 

We know Bernie Geestman, from his own admissions, worked on the 727 program for a few years prior to the hijacking. (After he left Shemya, and after he stopped working for NWA as a mechanic. He was at Shemya for NWA, then a mechanic for them in Seattle for a while, then the 727 program for Boeing, and then later he worked as a diesel mechanic for Foss Tugs.)

My own father worked at Boeing until the Big Bad Layoffs in 69-70. He told me that the employee newsletter would contain information about the tests done on Boeing aircraft in development, and that employee scuttlebutt was rampant. Everyone who worked on a project at Boeing knew everything that was going on with 'their' plane...including tests involving lowering the airstairs in flight to see if this changed the flight configurations. (And boy did I have Skipp Porteous run my dad's stuff, just to ensure he wasn't Cooper! Just kidding...)

What this means in reality, the Boeing 727 flight test having to do with the stairs...is they wanted to know if lowering the stairs (or having them accidentally dropped in flight) would cause the 727 to pitch, roll, whatever. Tests were done at Boeing, with negative results. (I'm assuming they were negative or we would have heard about it by now.)

It is my belief that Cooper either worked for Boeing at one time, or knew someone who did...and that it involved the 727. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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43 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

It is feasible that someone from Air America was Cooper. But one thing that puts me off that idea, or the idea Cooper was (recent) ex-military is his manner of dress. I think of him as low budget. Cheap suit, raincoat, loafers...

It is my belief that Cooper either worked for Boeing at one time, or knew someone who did...and that it involved the 727. 

He wasn't wearing loafers, another myth..

It was laceless ankle length shoes.

No evidence Cooper worked for Boeing. He had flying knowledge, didn't understand the rear stairs.

For a Boeing employee to commit a high profile crime like that in SEATTLE that would have led to his easy identification. That is almost like robbing the bank you frequently use. 

As for Air America... maybe he was involved or just heard about it, but there is a very high probability Cooper was in Vietnam..

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21 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

He wasn't wearing loafers, another myth..

It was laceless ankle length shoes.

No evidence Cooper worked for Boeing. He had flying knowledge, didn't understand the rear stairs.

For a Boeing employee to commit a high profile crime like that in SEATTLE that would have led to his easy identification. That is almost like robbing the bank you frequently use. 

As for Air America... maybe he was involved or just heard about it, but there is a very high probability Cooper was in Vietnam..

I agree. Cooper having worked at Boeing has only ever been speculation, and while it seems to explain many things nicely at first, if you dig deeper, there's some problems with the idea (like an employee not knowing how to open the stairs, as you said!). I believe Tom Kaye has also said that Boeing would've likely been a poor match for the type of workplace environment the tie particles could have come from. These things don't stop people from looking for new suspects specifically with Boeing backgrounds, though - probably because of how pervasive the idea that he MUST have worked there has become.

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I didn't say Cooper WORKED at Boeing...I said someone who knew the airstairs could be opened safely in flight could have been involved. And that would mean a Boeing employee, someone who had worked the 727 program. And yes...that same information could have come from an Air America employee. But would someone with that much experience at Air America come to the Cooper party so poorly dressed for the occasion? Suit and shoes? Seems unlikely. If you compare that to what Richard McCoy did, well...he was much better dressed for a jump. And he had been in Vietnam as well. It is a tough call. 

Loafers? Shoes without laces? Not much difference there. I've wondered why Cooper didn't select better shoes for the job, and then I wondered if he had better shoes for the jump in his paper bag. SOMETHING was in that bag, something unknown to this day. It was probably more than one item. What? We don't know. 

Back in 2000, years before I ever became involved with the Cooper case, I knew a guy named Bill Rattie. He was, at that time, the manager of a True Value hardware store in Des Moines, WA. I mentioned to him one day that there had been some news bit on DB Cooper on TV recently. 

He said he knew about Cooper because he had been in the Army Reserve and was part of the search group based near the Ariel Store. He also claimed to have found a shoe, one that looked pretty new, and without laces. He thought it was strange that the shoe was almost new and that it was found out in the middle of nowhere. He turned the shoe in to an officer and never heard another word about it. If you would like to contact him, you can try his Facebook page HERE, but he hasn't been there in years. He moved to Hawaii sometime after 2010, but returned to the Olympia, WA area a few years later. (My last word on him) I left him a message on Facebook couple of years back, but he has never answered it. Maybe you will have better luck. I remember him being a real Straight Joe and very honest, (they probably wouldn't have let him manage that True Value if he were dishonest...) 

He told me this stuff pretty casually and I didn't think much about it at the time, except for I thought it was cool he had participated in the search. 

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20 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Funny when I respond fairly intelligently to things like, 'He doesn't match the evidence,' or 'everyone lied'...or just lay the truth on you, 

(As opposed to the hateful crap some of you like to post about me and mine under your phony identities.)

It gets REAL quiet for a while. 

I guess you could look at it that way. Or perhaps you could look at it a little more logically, and realize that not everyone is glued to this forum and actually has a life away from it. I know that's hard to believe, but it's true. For example, instead of responding to your post that has probably been repeated now for the 20th or so time (I can't say for sure because like Jo Weber's old posts, I made it through about 5 lines before I moved on), I spent this morning taking care of some mechanical issues with my daughters car. Then it was on to the clinic to get my son, who became ill yesterday, a damn Covid test, only to find out they were too busy to see anyone else. "Come back after 2 O'Clock" they said. So I said to hell with it and went and picked up a home test which turned out positive. But, I don't really trust the home test, which begs the question: why did I buy the damn thing in the first place?? So, even though I said I wouldn't it was back to the same clinic late this afternoon where I was finally able to get him tested, and as it turns out, the home test was more accurate than I thought it would be. So, there goes tomorrow's plans of bowling and hitting a bar with some friends, having a few (or more) brews, and listening to a good cover band.  Oddly enough, we had the same plans last weekend and our friends had to bail because their family all had Covid. So, I guess I'll just lay low at home all weekend and watch some football, maybe a good movie or two. At least the Cowboys are in the playoffs. The plus side,  is that I will be available to immediately respond if you post something (for the 20th or so time), so that you won't think that everyone is running scared from your "fairly intelligent" post.

I'm just venting here. It's not been a good day and I was looking forward to a fun weekend. My son is fine, he feels much better today than yesterday. But, the fridge is full of beer. Things could be worse.

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Well...actually I like to shame the Cooper haters once in a while. 

Whether people agree with me or not on certain issues makes no difference to me. But when known people in Cooperland start engaging in hatred under anonymous usernames...yet everyone knows perfectly well for years now they hang at the Cooper Forum...it is good to keep reminding them their behavior is childish. B)

I'm glad your son is better, and yes...I too am stocked up for Wild Card Weekend. Usually I am out in the woods with a wire attached to the car antenna (Westwood One Radio Network) and blast off a few rounds each time my favored team scores. 

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1 hour ago, RobertMBlevins said:

...come to the Cooper party so poorly dressed for the occasion? Suit and shoes? Seems unlikely.

I believe I've posted here a number of times that it really isn't a problem to jump in a suit, and anyone with jump experience would know that. The only part that could give you a problem might be the tie, and clearly he took that off. Also, the laceless, ankle high shoes with the Vibram type soles that Flyjack has posted would also work fine. So it seems that Cooper dressed just fine for the 'occasion' of blending in as an airline passenger.

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(edited)

Well, I'm sure Cooper's purpose was to look like any other airline passenger. By the time of the Cooper caper, Air Marshals were in service and you never knew who they were. If we give Cooper even half a brain, he must have known from the start it was going to be a night jump until semi-hostile conditions in November. He hijacked the plane around 430 PM Pacific and in late November that means it would be dark pretty much by the time they reached Seattle (not counting the time circling and waiting).

So who does that unless they are NOT expecting to have to jump over heavily wooded countryside? The only thing that makes sense to me about Cooper's clothing is that he must have planned to jump a lot sooner than he did, while the jet was still over relatively civilized country, and was not south of Olympia, WA. Or at least the suburbs south of Olympia. 

It is my belief he was forced into jumping further south than he originally planned, because he did not get the money delivered in the knapsack he requested and had to take valuable time (traveling at three miles a minute) to secure the money bag. This involved popping the reserve chute, cutting cords, tying those cords to both his body and the bag itself. Then there is the problem of having trouble with the airstairs release. 

I think Cooper's plan was to bail from the aircraft not long after it left SeaTac. In this way, he would not have looked so obvious had he come down in a semi-civilized area wearing a suit. If you want to go further, he may even have planned to stash the money and come back later in a car to pick it up. But once he landed in the woods, hiding it and returning were probably not an option anymore. Chances are he would not be able to find it again. If he is wearing a suit and lands near anywhere civilized, he would have looked just like any other guy wearing a suit and would have attracted little, if any attention. 

I still believe that Cooper had an accomplice on the ground, but not in the way others have thought about it. Folks have said someone on the ground may have had a radio, a big light, and was waiting along the flight path. But where would they wait? There is no way to prearrange something like that when you know you will be operating on the fly. No...what I think is that Cooper had an accomplice who was just waiting near a phone somewhere south of SeaTac Airport. Cooper would land, call him on a pay phone, and have that accomplice pick him up. The idea of landing anywhere and simply walking all the way home (wherever home was...it had to be a long way) doesn't make sense to me. The cops probably would have picked him up the next afternoon walking down the road somewhere. 

NOTE: I have an article at WordPress giving my theory on how...IF KC and Bernie Geestman were involved in the hijacking...HOW they planned to pull it off. Here is what we know and what we don't know about all that:

  • We KNOW from extensive witness testimony that Geestman left his house on the Monday morning before the Wednesday of the hijacking, and that Kenny Christiansen lived a couple of miles away, but BETWEEN his house and where he was going. 
     
  • We KNOW that Geestman had recently purchased both a used Airstream trailer and a station wagon, and that the wagon was the vehicle he took from Bonney Lake. The trailer was parked at his intended destination, a shop property in Oakville, WA where he later built a house and then moved there with his wife Margaret. She later served as Town Clerk both in Oakville and in the nearby town of Centralia, until they moved to Twisp, WA years later. She makes the local paper a few times. (Right now I was too cheap to sign for twenty bucks to see the articles, but they definitely lived in Oakville. 
     
  • We KNOW that Mrs. Geestman objected to her husband's idea of leaving an expensive Airstream trailer parked in Oakville and told him someone could break into it or steal it. And that Bernie told her basically to mind her own business. 

    MargieNewspaper.jpg.fcf09c0d3d9269b5a8b1e69e8f3f5c06.jpg
     
  • We KNOW that Geestman, according to witnesses, returned home alone on either the Monday or Tuesday following the hijacking. 
     
  • We KNOW that Kenny Christiansen was with him this whole time because both Geestman and his wife, and Christiansen, usually attended Thanksgiving dinner at the Jones' family home, but neither man showed up the year of the hijacking. In January of 1972, Jones saw Christiansen at the Sumner Laundromat and he admitted he had been with Geestman over Thanksgiving but wouldn't give her any details.
     
  • We do NOT know what Christiansen and Geestman did on the day before the hijacking, but we do know they were with the trailer in Oakville, and that Geestman had told his wife he was going camping. She was very upset, and told Helen Jones about this at Thanksgiving dinner that Thursday. According to Jones, Mrs Geestman said she couldn't figure out why Bernie would skip their traditional Thanksgiving to go camping in the middle of November anyway. 
     
  • We KNOW that Margie Geestman and the Jones family watched and listened to the news reports about the hijacking, but that none of them suspected it had anything to do with Bernie or Kenny. 
     
  • We KNOW that Geestman did not tell his wife he would be picking up Kenny Christiansen, or that he would be with him on this alleged camping trip. We found this strange because Geestman, Margie Geestman, and Christiansen were all close friends. (It's been alleged by others that perhaps they were having a gay affair, but Geestman has children and there was never a hint of anything in his life that he might be gay or bisexual.) 
     
  • We do NOT believe the trailer was purchased for camping, because the Geestmans' never went out in it, not once. And it was lent to Helen Jones' family after they had a house fire on Christmas Eve 1972. Geestman towed it to their property and they were allowed to stay in it until repairs on the house were complete. According to Jones and her daughter, the trailer was sold directly afterward to a buyer who drove up from Arizona to collect it. 
     

To go any further with this is simply theory, not fact, except that in her final interview Margie Geestman admitted that not only was her husband involved in the hijacking, but it was Kenny Christiansen who was actually Cooper. She did not say this directly. This is how it went:

Robert: "Helen Jones has told me that Kenny admitted to her at the Sumner Laundromat after the hijacking that he was with Bernie that whole week of the hijacking. And you have said in these interviews that your husband was definitely involved in the hijacking. Is this true or is Helen lying?"

Margie: "No, she isn't lying."
Robert: "Do you understand what this means? It means Kenny was D.B. Cooper."
Margie: "Yes."

There is more to this, but I will cut to the chase. Basically, she said that she had no idea what the men planned to do, and only found out after her husband returned. And that because of this, and because she was married to him, she was dragged unwillingly into the whole thing. This scenario, should it be true, doesn't surprise me a bit. Every single person I interviewed during the investigation who knew Bernie Geestman had the same two names for him. They called him a liar and a crook. 

What I believe is that Margie decided to keep their secret not because she loved her husband, but because she liked Kenny Christiansen and perhaps figured her husband was the instigator of the whole thing anyway. The year he died from cancer, Kenny made one last trip from Bonney Lake to Margie's ranch in Twisp (she was divorced by then and lived alone) to say goodbye to her. And maybe...to thank her for not turning him in. But then I always knew she had an unreasonable fear of the FBI, and thought she could lose her ranch somehow to the Feds or go to jail if she told. I call her, 'The Lady Who Kept the Secrets'. 

BELOW: Kenny and Margie the year BEFORE the hijacking. Images copyright Adventure Books of Seattle.

KennyandMargie1970BonneyLake.jpg.ec3dcbe960aea43d0371ee8158311160.jpg

Below: Margie Geestman in 2009-10 from her interviews in Twisp, WA:

MargieThirdInterview.jpg.4df1bd2a37bbdfbe673976228bd8e870.jpg

Below: Margie Geestman at a younger age.

Margie1950.jpg.def2200664cbf0e3ab0a12259fa0ee44.jpg

Below: Margie and Kenny saying goodbye, 1994:

kennykatycoloramaz.jpg.3fe8adf72bd0abaaa451a187f06f92ea.jpg

Below: Supreme liar Bernie Geestman being questioned by the cast of the TV show Brad Meltzer's Decoded:

GeestmanHC1.png.86400c9c610974ebdff2e577f69ca7db.png

Below: A map diagram with our theory on how the hijacking actually happened. (Ignore the part about Cooper wanting the stairs down before takeoff. We know now that was a Cooper myth, which has since been disproved.) 

jumpmap1.jpg.80d4ae468a92d78f95cf7fceac4d3779.jpg

Edited by RobertMBlevins
Reviewed and corrected some minor details

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I got Edwards book for Christmas. I avoided reading Cooper books until I developed an independent understanding of the case, though I did get Tosaw's book for the money serial numbers. Without a high case knowledge level you can't read them critically and easily get tainted by author bias.

First off, it looks amazing, the cover is great, the images are top notch the citations are extremely thorough. It will be a must have for anybody interested in the Cooper case.

I haven't read it thoroughly but my book has a print flaw,,, "chapter 2" on the top left page goes right through chapter 6. Hopefully that gets corrected and this one goes up in value.

I have skimmed it and found an error with the stair lock light.. the light goes on when the handle is moved from the up detent. For the light to go out the handle must be returned to the up detent.

So, if Cooper moved the handle from the up detent but did not push it forward to lower the stairs then the light would be on but the stairs not moved. If Cooper returned the handle to up detent only then would the light go out. For the light to go out the stairs must be up AND the handle back in the up detent position.

IMO, Cooper initially tried to open the stairs but they didn't drop much so he moved them back up putting the handle back in the up detent then opened them again, causing the light to go out briefly.. The handle must be back in the up detent for the light to go out.

Here is a diagram of the NWA 727-51 airstair operation.. there are two door warning lights on the crewman's panel, one is a locked down and one activated by the up detent handle position. 

I don't see anyway that Cooper locked the stairs in the down position.

northwest727-51.thumb.jpg.4a337d5a3b3fe1d07ab1c685118fac0c.jpg

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(edited)

So called "Witnesses" can be BS'ers or embellishers. When Richard DeCample the fuel truck driver was interviewed back in 1971 by the FBI he claimed he didn't see the hijacker, only the crew as the rear of the plane was dark lights out.

Decamplefbi.png.3b8c98e9a5f1f10c28be2d8230923bd8.png

 

In a 2017 media interview he claimed he saw the face of the hijacker. He embellished his story for the media because he knew that elevated his experience and involvement.

https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/investigations/author-invites-public-to-solve-db-cooper-mystery/281-493832199

"Richard DeCample remembers the moment he saw one of the most famous faces in American history.

"I had hooked up to the airplane and I was under the wing, but I could look up and I could see him looking out, but I'm like, 'What can he see?'"

"DeCample says he was in the process of transferring fuel to the plan when he glanced toward a cabin window and saw the face that's been memorialized in those famous DB Cooper sketches."

Blevins so called witnesses are not credible either. They are making claims/opinions 40+ years later about an event they have no direct knowledge of to an amateur researcher not under penalty of perjury. Witnesses like this, including McCoy's kids need corroboration because people lie, exaggerate, speculate and manufacture memories all the time. 

 

When Chaucer tried to discredit Ratazcak I posted news reports going back over the years that confirm Ratazcak was telling the same story..  Chaucer then applied his worn out strawman tactic to claim I only rely on news reports.. where did Chaucer go by the way.. he seems to have run off after his argument got decimated with the facts. 

Ratazcak is solid.

Chaucer's Columbia R argument amounts to discrediting Rataczak, the FBI, Soderlind, me, the crew, logic, Santa Claus, Ghandi, the sled test and participants..   with no evidence to support it.

The totality of the evidence shows the "bump" occurred between Merwin and Battleground. 

The only possible way Cooper jumped into or next to the Columbia is if the "bump" was not Cooper leaving the plane.

That is an entirely different argument and I have seen no evidence to support that. The big "bump" felt by the crew was the last one..

 

Edited by FLYJACK
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1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

I got Edwards book for Christmas. I avoided reading Cooper books until I developed an independent understanding of the case, though I did get Tosaw's book for the money serial numbers. Without a high case knowledge level you can't read them critically and easily get tainted by author bias.

I've read only two, Gray's book and Bruce's book. I liked both. Gray's book is really the one that got me more interested in the case.

I intend to read Marty's book, I just haven't got around to getting it yet. 

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(edited)
26 minutes ago, georger said:

Did you see the chiefs last night ? !!!

I assume you mean the Bills? The Chiefs play later today. The Bills looked good. These playoffs are wide open. Other than 1 or 2 teams, I could see anyone being there at the end.

Edited by ParrotheadVol

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(edited)

Flyjack says in part:

Quote

'Blevins so called witnesses are not credible either. They are making claims/opinions 40+ years later about an event they have no direct knowledge of to an amateur researcher not under penalty of perjury. Witnesses like this, including McCoy's kids need corroboration because people lie, exaggerate, speculate and manufacture memories all the time....'

I'm sure they do. Occasionally lie and need corroboration, that is. 

But I didn't just fall off the apple cart last Tuesday, I assure you. I know about getting confirmation on information or statements made by witnesses, for example. I don't necessarily take things at face value. I make my results public and name names, give dates, take notes and pictures, and VERIFY. 

Here is a good example. The first time I met with Geestman's niece (back in 2012 with her son at the Dairy Freeze in Sumner, WA) she claimed that she had seen Kenny making what looked to be a bomb, or at least stringing sticks of fake dynamite together using filled quarter coin rolls, two at a time, back to back, and secured with red electrical tape. And that he was attaching wires to this 'thing'. She also saw the same type of battery that was described by the FBI. 

But...since at that time there were no references to red tape out there, just 'red sticks,' I didn't take her story real seriously. Then the Clyde Lewis video came out where Clyde gets some shots of the actual notebook kept by the Cowlitz County Sheriff on the evening of the hijacking. And some of the references in that notebook mention the dynamite sticks being wrapped in red plastic. There is no way she could have known that. So I took her story more seriously after that and tried to get another interview. That was difficult to do but I finally got her to come to Eatonville and tell her complete story on film for the John Dower movie. Then...Dower cuts her whole bit from the picture, including two days of my work as well. Then...I find out later from the producer, (a woman, her picture is below) that Dower was never looking for a solution to the crime and didn't want to hear any. What he wanted was to poke fun at the weirdos and flaky folks (her words) involved in the case. So Dower puts out an 80-minute movie concentrating on the people with the stranger stories going in the case. 

BELOW: Left to right. Cameraman, director John Dower, and the female producer for the movie. (She has asked her name not be used in Cooper posts where her picture is also used.)

TheInvaders.jpg.25297e400fdefe979f58a05c1126f65d.jpg

The producer admits she was against this idea. And the movie was a complete flop. At least I got paid, but later I asked Dower if I could use the footage he shot where this woman tells her story and he ignored all that. Dower will probably never get financed for another picture by Minnow Films, I was told. He's had one winner (the film about Joe Frazier) and two losers. Cooper and Scientology. The Scientology movie wasn't too bad...I have seen it...but Dower always did better when his pal Louis Theroux was involved, and Theroux would have wanted answers for Cooper, while Dower just wanted to entertain people. 

Sure, witnesses can lie if they wish. And if you suspect they ARE lying, you do two things. First, you ask yourself what would motivate them to lie. What have they to gain (or lose) by lying. Second, you get confirming sources and try to verify their statements. That was my approach during the investigation into Kenny Christiansen, and just tossing a blanket statement out there saying the witnesses are no good because they all lied just does not wash. 

Here is something for you. For a while now I have suspected that you, Flyjack, are also the reviewer at Amazon who goes by the name Silence DoGood. Am I right about that, or not? If so, I like it. I'm a big fan of Benjamin Franklin and read the book about his life at least twice. 

As far as being able to verify this or that...not done by me...but by others who read about my work...they can always contact the FBI and try to speak to Agent John Jarvis, or they can research out witness Troy Bentz, or go over that public report we released with a fine tooth comb. All the tools are there. It wasn't like I tried to hide anything from the public, you know. Of course, there are a few things not in the public report that were only provided to the FBI, but that was done as a sort of control to verify certain things later if necessary. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins
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1 hour ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Here is something for you. For a while now I have suspected that you, Flyjack, are also the reviewer at Amazon who goes by the name Silence DoGood. Am I right about that, or not? If so, I like it. I'm a big fan of Benjamin Franklin and read the book about his life at least twice. 

No, not me, I have never reviewed any book on Amazon or online ever.

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Quarterback should have handed the ball to the referee. They would have put one second on the clock for a final play. It was not a good way to end that game. 

The Steelers? Rothlisberger should retire. And so should half of the remainder of the team. They looked like a Senior Bowl team. 

I should have mentioned I wasn't able to bail to the woods this year for Wild Card Weekend. We got a foot of snow in Yakima and we're in the Yakima Valley. Anything away from town had even MORE snow. Had to watch at home. 

Update that has nothing to do with Cooper, either:  Susan and I are going to sell the house here in Yakima within the next year and move to New Mexico. And that will be our last home. Home prices are skyrocketing here, while you can get a decent home in New Mexico for 140K or less with garage on a five acre lot. After this last winter, we have just HAD IT. The home here in Yakima is worth twice that much and mortgage is down to a low five figures. It's a no brainer and she used to live there anyway, has friends there. 

Our family moved to WA back in 1968. Now they are all gone except for me. I am the last holdout. It is time to move on. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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