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DB Cooper

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19 minutes ago, Andrade1812 said:

Hey Fly,

Hate to bug you again, but I'm gearing up for the Con. Can you post that picture from the ground search HQ where the FBI flight path map can be seen in the background?

My cropped image with yellow map.

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original image

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It looks like we have some more information about that D. B. Cooper movie that the Rolling Stone article with Tina Mucklow revealed near the start of the year. https://deadline.com/2021/11/nod-if-you-understand-amber-sealey-to-direct-thriller-on-db-cooper-hijacking-1234876249/ Both Tina and Bill are consulting it seems.

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7 minutes ago, Coopericane said:

It looks like we have some more information about that D. B. Cooper movie that the Rolling Stone article with Tina Mucklow revealed near the start of the year. https://deadline.com/2021/11/nod-if-you-understand-amber-sealey-to-direct-thriller-on-db-cooper-hijacking-1234876249/ Both Tina and Bill are consulting it seems.

Sounds pretty good to me. After the movie is released, anyone with a Cooper book out there will see their sales jump for sure. It always happens with the TV shows. With a feature film, it should be a better return than that. It is about time someone told Mucklow's real story. 

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2 hours ago, dudeman17 said:

If what has been going on here for the past several days is not a strong case for what has been previously suggested, then I don't know what is.

Are you suggesting censorship? I hope not. But in case that's what you are talking about, let me say this:

I don't blow smoke up peoples' behinds, no matter what you may have heard elsewhere. I am known for this in the 'real' world outside of Cooperland. I did it in the 500+ illustrated articles I did for Newsvine when it was still going, I did it at the WordPress column on the Cooper case, and I do it here at Dropzone, over at Facebook, and the usual social media outlets. Always have, always will. 

This is better than the alternative approach, which is to pussyfoot around and engage in phony behavior and unnecessary attacks on others in a personal manner. In other words, I call it like I see it and I'm not interested in winning any popularity contests. The truth is the only thing that matters in the Cooper case. Personal issues should be set aside in favor of truth and cooperation. Everything else is fluff and baloney. 

One thing you can always depend on from me. I don't sugar coat things for you and I give it to people straight. But when you do that, especially in Cooperland, you have to expect some folks are not going to like it. You learn to live with that. 

And I don't hide inside an imitation, as Kurt Russell once said in The Thing. You know exactly where something is coming from, and who the source is. You know exactly who to blame and it isn't some username, but a real person. 

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16 hours ago, Coopericane said:

It looks like we have some more information about that D. B. Cooper movie that the Rolling Stone article with Tina Mucklow revealed near the start of the year. https://deadline.com/2021/11/nod-if-you-understand-amber-sealey-to-direct-thriller-on-db-cooper-hijacking-1234876249/ Both Tina and Bill are consulting it seems.

Well, I'll set my expectations low... "Hollywood" usually tells an over stylized story,, not really the truth..

But, you never know.

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6 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Well, I'll set my expectations low... "Hollywood" usually tells an over stylized story,, not really the truth..

But, you never know.

The last time a movie told (more or less) the absolute truth was probably the Billy Bob Thornton version of The Alamo. And the movie was a box-office disaster. Viewers didn't like seeing Davy Crockett (Thornton) get captured and executed with his hands tied behind his back at the end. And according to General Cos' notes that is exactly what happened. (Cos was sort of like Santa Ana's second in command.) But people didn't want to hear that. They wanted John Wayne swinging his rifle and blowing up the powder magazine instead. ¬¬ On a slightly interesting note, I actually contacted Billy Bob when he was running his old My Space page and told him HE was good in the movie, but....(the truth sometimes does NOT set you free.) And he did answer me. He agreed with my assessment on the film. 

I dunno. They have Tina and Bill Rataczak consulting on the Cooper film. That can't be a bad thing. A lot of it (good or bad film) comes down to the script and especially the director. A good director can make a winning film even with a small budget sometimes. (Duel, the ABC Movie of the Week directed by a young Steven Spielberg is a good example.) The usual budget for ABC Movies of the Week was around $200,000-$250,000. 

The only really bad media I have seen on Cooper was probably D.B. Cooper - Case Closed (?). That one was awful and even some of Colbert's 'team' wanted out of the whole thing, including Billy Jensen the NY Times reporter who told the rest of the team privately they were barking up the wrong tree with Rackstraw as a Cooper suspect. Then the financial guy for the production company decided to rip the company off and do blackmail on them at the same time. Then the production company itself got fired from some projects they were already doing. It was a big fat mess for sure.

But there is some truth in the old saying, 'Any publicity is GOOD publicity.' Every time one of these shows has been done, we sold a lot of books. So I wish them the best. And after the 50th anniversary comes and goes this week, I think general public interest in the case will begin to fade a bit. The one BIG problem with national media (there haven't been any serious feature films on Cooper to date) and D.B. Cooper is that they can't write the damn ending. So people get disappointed. 

I was involved for three long years with a proposed movie production on the Cooper case. They were paying me a few thousand a year. Finally the script arrives. I read it and see it is an absolute piece of garbage. Rather than accept more money from them, I pulled back the media rights and moved on. I doubt this will happen with the Mucklow/Rataczak story. It might be okay. 

In any case, the more media does its thing with the Cooper case, the more books Cooper authors will sell, and the more public interest will continue on the case. Over here at AB, we do our part every July and that will continue into the foreseeable future. And although we have had some problems with Eric and his extracurricular activities at that one convention, we figure he won't ever do that again. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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On 11/19/2021 at 2:37 PM, RobertMBlevins said:

The one BIG problem with national media (there haven't been any serious feature films on Cooper to date) and D.B. Cooper is that they can't write the damn ending. So people get disappointed. 

Actually, for someone doing a movie I think that is an advantage. We don't know the true ending, so a movie could take any direction they wanted with the ending. I'd like to see Tarantino tackle Cooper. He tends to re-write history with some of his films anyway. I think Cooper would be right up his alley.

Interesting fact: Tarantino went to the same elementary school that I did as a kid for one year. I think he was a fifth grader and I was in first grade. There was a drive in theater about 3 blocks from where I currently live that his mother used to take him to as a kid. That's when he developed his love for movies. Most of his movies have a Tennessee reference in them and that is the reason why.

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4 hours ago, ParrotheadVol said:

Actually, for someone doing a movie I think that is an advantage. We don't know the true ending, so a movie could take any direction they wanted with the ending. I'd like to see Tarantino tackle Cooper. He tends to re-write history with some of his films anyway. I think Cooper would be right up his alley.

Interesting fact: Tarantino went to the same elementary school that I did as a kid for one year. I think he was a fifth grader and I was in first grade. There was a drive in theater about 3 blocks from where I currently live that his mother used to take him to as a kid. That's when he developed his love for movies. Most of his movies have a Tennessee reference in them and that is the reason why.

For the Cooper case, I have to disagree with your assessment. Not being able to write the ending to a crime story is very frustrating for audiences. Over the years I have spoken to a few movie producers about this problem regarding Cooper. They all agreed it would be better if a movie was done that didn't leave the audience hanging. Anyone who would go to see a movie on Cooper would probably be over the age of 40 mostly...and a majority of them know Cooper was never caught, nor his identity discovered. Been there, done that. 

If the leave-you-hanging type of movie would actually work...someone would have done it already. But it's fifty years since the crime and there hasn't been a single feature film done on him yet. Two comedies, yes. TV documentaries, also yes. Serious feature film? Not yet. And the why not on that is:

Because no one has been able to write the ending yet. 

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The problem with the Cooper case is that there is actually very little evidence. We have very few facts directly related to Cooper..  So, it is easy make a suspect fit some points..

Even the FBI claimed in 1976 that they could never get a prosecution without the co-operation of Cooper. The witness memories had faded and there are very few facts.

I have been putting together a list of Cooper facts and a profile to compare to a suspect and it is only about 70 points..   

Most of the high profile suspects fit very few of the facts/profile.

 

The only way to put a suspect on the plane is prints or DNA, both of those are uncertain/incomplete.

Edited by FLYJACK

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On 10/4/2021 at 12:34 PM, FLYJACK said:

Why do people push nonsense.. read the files..

FBI lab approximately $5800 on TBAR..  100 bills per packet, that is 3 packets with one missing a few.

There is nothing to support 2 packets,, 

The misinformation in this case is off the charts,

 

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Nobody believes Snowmman on the TBAR bills because he is wrong..

The FBI files do indicate the lab got approximately $5800....  we don't have the report.

280 bills, they were in 100's, that is 3 packets one was short, either removed prior to deposit or eroded from the top.

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On 10/16/2021 at 6:22 PM, FLYJACK said:

Sioux City Sarsparilla can found in the same layer with the the TBAR money..

It started selling nationally July 1974.

 

This was dated May 1974.

 

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This is interesting,,, A Sioux City Sarsparilla can was found in the same layer as the money but wasn't produced until 1974..

Palmer was asked about the chards at 3' depth, he said that there is no conclusive evidence of money at depth and surmised that it was from the digging process.

sarsparillamoneydepth.jpeg.9030c35e4afc5899d8a017701e532e61.jpeg

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1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

The problem with the Cooper case is that there is actually very little evidence. We have very few facts directly related to Cooper..  So, it is easy make a suspect fit some points..

Even the FBI claimed in 1976 that they could never get a prosecution without the co-operation of Cooper. The witness memories had faded and there are very few facts.

I have been putting together a list of Cooper facts and a profile to compare to a suspect and it is only about 70 points..   

Most of the high profile suspects fit very few of the facts/profile.

 

The only way to put a suspect on the plane is prints or DNA, both of those are uncertain/incomplete.

Or....you could do what Carl Bernstein and Bob Woodward did during the Watergate investigation. They ran down witnesses, took good notes, and verified the witnesses' testimonies. That ALSO works. B)

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1 hour ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Or....you could do what Carl Bernstein and Bob Woodward did during the Watergate investigation. They ran down witnesses, took good notes, and verified the witnesses' testimonies. That ALSO works. B)

They got lucky... had a tipster.

Bernstein went all in on the Trump Russia collusion hoax.. got it wrong due to bias..  he has become a parody. Woodward finally admitted there was no evidence. These guys have become political grifters..

not a good analog...

 

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26 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

They got lucky... had a tipster.

Bernstein went all in on the Trump Russia collusion hoax.. got it wrong due to bias..  he has become a parody. Woodward finally admitted there was no evidence. These guys have become political grifters..

not a good analog...

 

Most crimes are not solved by reviewing the existing files on that crime, although it happens occasionally. Most of the major crimes are solved by hitting the bricks and doing the work. And although Trump himself was able to dodge the collusion charges, there is evidence aplenty he had other people involved. Some of them were convicted for one thing or another due to their lies, etc. And Trump pardoned almost all of them. He takes the cake as the worst US President who has ever served, even worse than Andrew Johnson, the guy who took over after Lincoln was killed. 

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7 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

For the Cooper case, I have to disagree with your assessment. Not being able to write the ending to a crime story is very frustrating for audiences.

Bullshit. If Hollywood wants to make a movie about something, they don't need a real ending or for it to be "solved". We could talk all day long about historical events that Hollywood has re-done the ending to. I don't know why there has never been a serious Cooper movie made, but I promise you that it isn't because they don't know the ending to the story. That thought is ridiculous. 

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53 minutes ago, ParrotheadVol said:

Bullshit. If Hollywood wants to make a movie about something, they don't need a real ending or for it to be "solved". We could talk all day long about historical events that Hollywood has re-done the ending to. I don't know why there has never been a serious Cooper movie made, but I promise you that it isn't because they don't know the ending to the story. That thought is ridiculous. 

Well...if you don't know why they haven't done a serious Cooper movie yet...even after fifty years, a bunch of TV documentaries, and a dozen books...

Then how is my thought on why this is the case so ridiculous? 

This was not my idea exclusively. It was told to me by a few different people in the business. All of them from either Hollywood, or in some cases, just the Los Angeles area. And another production guy in Seattle from Lionsgate Films said the same thing. As I said, I was working with some of these folks for a few years. 

I also think it's the reason that director Will Gluck decided not to do the Skyjack story after he acquired the rights to Gray's book. No one wanted to see an unresolved ending. When Hollywood decides to do a famous story, but can't write the ending for it, sometimes it results in box office disaster. A good example might be Amelia, the movie with Hilary Swank and Richard Gere. It only made back half its budget at the box office. It was a disaster, grossing about $20 million against a budget of $40 million dollars. 

Did you call my premise bullshit because you really think it is...or just because I was the one who suggested that premise? ^_^

If they can't write the true ending to the Cooper story, then the only other option is to simply make something up and go with that. That's what Quentin Tarentino did in his movie, Once Upon a Time in Hollywood.  He invented an alternate ending and associated it fictionally with the Manson Family murders. People loved it. Against a budget of around $90 million, it made about $375 million at the box office. In order for the Cooper story to work, someone would have to do the same thing. Or...they pick the most likely suspect and make the picture assuming that suspect actually did it. You hang a movie out there on Cooper without being able to write the ending, you are asking for Instant Loser.

I think the movie they are planning with Tina Mucklow and Bill Rataczak as consultants might work, though. The reason being the movie seems to lean more toward their lives after the hijacking, then it does trying to figure out or say who Cooper actually was. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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I'm not going to pick on Cooper Con too much directly, but I did warn you guys that without a headliner, you weren't going to get the crowd. Picture from day two at Cooper Con. Looks like about forty people in the audience. But since you can't see the left side of the theater near the aisle, there could be another twenty or so over on that side. Some of them in the front row are probably participants. Not too bad I guess, considering. But the Kiggins Theater holds 340 people. Obviously, the sellout promised by Eric didn't happen. 

However, to be fair, Covid is still putting the hammer down on public events to a degree. Next year, get a headliner guys. You need at least one to bring in the crowd and fill the seats. If you can't afford that, you have to offer something else as we do. Like free food, for example. Food will bring people every time. We do a free BBQ. 

Another problem is running the event over two consecutive days when that event is not held at the same place where you sleep. This is why most conventions are run at hotels. The theater thing works best if it is just one long day, not asking people to return home and then come back the next day. 

You can slam on me for these comments if you wish, but if you want a Cooper event where people are competing for seats and it's Standing Room Only...you MUST have a headliner. A 'headliner' is defined as a person well-known to most people, even if that person has nothing to do with the Cooper case. The purpose of the headliner is to sell seats and get people to show UP. 

(Picture credit: Kiggins Theater.)

May be an image of 4 people and indoor

I was encouraged that at least SOME people showed up, but I expected better this year. Last convention, the Columbian newspaper reported that just under a hundred people were in the audience. This year looks worse, not better. And it was the 50th anniversary and all. People have also slammed on me for saying these things should be organized by committee, not just by one guy. That's how successful events are done. I learned that lesson from Connie, the lady who ran the Auburn Days Festival for 27 years. She never got less than 10,000 people to flood the streets downtown in August and blow their money all over the place. I am no expert, or even on her level, but she was, and still IS, a real smart cookie about these things. Everything I know I learned from her during the five years I was on the Planning Committee. 

If anyone is interested, our Cooper/UFO event is next July and we already have more than forty people signed up to go. Only about five of them are associated, or are fans of, the Cooper case. I expect we will do better than that by the time April-May rolls around. No one is automatically 'banned' from our event, with the exception of Bruce Smith, because of his allowing of personal attacks on other Cooper folk at his Mountain News website. He is persona non grata unless he changes his ways. 

You guys get a headliner next year, and you will pack the house.

And we WANT you to pack the house. Your event (convention) and ours (Cooper party) are the only two left going. 

When people ask me privately what our event is really like, sometimes I just send them a video like this one.  We crank it up pretty loud after dark. A lot of people started dancing at the event last July. The fact that they did this basically out in the middle of nowhere at 5,000 feet was amazing to both me and Susan. My thanks go out to everyone involved who helped make it happen. See you all again the second weekend of July. 

 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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5 minutes ago, Coopericane said:

Did anything especially interesting come out of CooperCon? Any big news/suspects/theories? And are any of the presentations on/going to be on Youtube or something?

Don't know on that yet, but I sure hope so. We are not against CooperCon at all. We disagree with some of the way they organize the event, but we're not against it because it helps keep public interest in the case. Bruce Smith (aka Jerk but still a voice in the whole thing) will probably do an article soon. 

Hopefully the Usual Suspects will not trash his article with their attacks on others. It just makes him look bad, and de-legitimatizes his efforts in the case.  

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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10 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Most crimes are not solved by reviewing the existing files on that crime, although it happens occasionally. Most of the major crimes are solved by hitting the bricks and doing the work. And although Trump himself was able to dodge the collusion charges, there is evidence aplenty he had other people involved. Some of them were convicted for one thing or another due to their lies, etc. And Trump pardoned almost all of them. He takes the cake as the worst US President who has ever served, even worse than Andrew Johnson, the guy who took over after Lincoln was killed. 

This is pure gold... it perfectly exemplifies Blevins flawed thinking and his KC narrative.

Blevins evokes Bernstein as some sort of investigative standard.. but Bernstein (like Blevins) pushed the Russia collusion hoax with zero evidence, none..  many were duped by it due to a personal bias against Trump. The media pumped it for years, the intel community pushed it so it was accepted as fact.

Critical thinkers were skeptical as there was actually no evidence.

and we now know it was a hoax started by the Clinton machine and then advanced by partisans in the FBI/DOJ. It was actually an attempted coup of a sitting President. One of the biggest scandals in US history. No matter what you think of Trump that is some serious stuff..

But people like Blevins can't even recognize this, they are so invested in their own bias they subvert any critical thinking ability by discrediting contradictory facts and embellishing supporting information. Bernstein fell for it as did many others.. and now that it has been exposed the bias is so strong that people still believe the hoax.. it is a form of self denial. Even Woodward looked for two years and concluded there is no evidence.

This is exactly the problem with KC as a Cooper suspect, there is no evidence to support him as Cooper and the evidence eliminates him but Blevins personal bias prohibits him from acknowledging reality. It is a self imposed delusion. My experience with people like this is that there is no amount of reason, logic or evidence to convince them that their reality is wrong. 

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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12 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

And Trump pardoned almost all of them. He takes the cake as the worst US President who has ever served, even worse than Andrew Johnson, the guy who took over after Lincoln was killed. 

I'm not going to get in a political back and forth so this is all I will say on the topic: The current president is well on his way to taking the crown of "Worst US President who has ever served", a crown that currently resides with Jimmy Carter. This guy is in way over his head and has been a disaster since day 1. So bad, that he may not even be nominated a second time. 

 

EDIT: When I say worst ever, I'm basically saying worst during my lifetime. I can't judge beyond that.

Edited by ParrotheadVol

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