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1 minute ago, DFS346 said:

Yes, I'm the author of "D. B. Cooper and Flight 305". I think Flyjack's post #64549 has correctly identified the documents in the FBI Vault that refer to reported weather conditions on 11.24.1971. However the NOAA has a database of radiosonde observations for 11.24.1971 and the preceding and following days, up to and above 10,000 feet AMSL, from (IIRC) SeaTac, Gray AAF and Salem.(but not Portland).

I am really looking forward to your book too and your upcoming Cooper Vortex episode!

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Just now, Coopericane said:

I am really looking forward to your book too and your upcoming Cooper Vortex episode!

Thank you. I think that Schiffer has stock of the book in their warehouse in Atglen, PA. Darren Schaefer and I recorded about two hours of material on 10.27.2021 and I believe he will broadcast sometime in the next 10 days.

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11 minutes ago, DFS346 said:

Yes, I'm the author of "D. B. Cooper and Flight 305". I think Flyjack's post #64549 has correctly identified the documents in the FBI Vault that refer to reported weather conditions on 11.24.1971. However the NOAA has a database of radiosonde observations for 11.24.1971 and the preceding and following days, up to and above 10,000 feet AMSL, from (IIRC) SeaTac, Gray AAF and Salem.(but not Portland).

To expand a bit further on Dr. Edward's comments above, the predicted winds aloft used by pilots for flight planning purposes on the evening of the hijacking are available somewhere on one of Shutter's sites.

Also, despite some claims to the contrary, there is no evidence of any winds from the Southeast on the evening of the hijacking.  The claims of a Captain Bohan of extremely high winds from the Southeast are simply not supported by the measured wind data.  All winds at altitudes relevant to the hijacking were from the Southwest.

The Gray AAF (Army Air Field) mentioned here was apparently located on the Fort Lewis, WA military reservation and would be on the present day Lewis-McChord Joint Base reservation.  It is not the present day Gray AFB that is located adjacent to Fort Hood, Texas or maybe it is vice-versa.  And neither is to be confused with Gary AFB, Texas. There was plenty of duplication of names in the WW2 and subsequent time frame. 

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32 minutes ago, Robert99 said:

 

Also, despite some claims to the contrary, there is no evidence of any winds from the Southeast on the evening of the hijacking.  The claims of a Captain Bohan of extremely high winds from the Southeast are simply not supported by the measured wind data.  All winds at altitudes relevant to the hijacking were from the Southwest.

 

Yes, there was SE wind, Seattle data.. 

But the takeaway is there is no data for the 8:10-8:12 time frame at the "jump" location.

Even the radiosonde data is too far away to be reliable.

All we have are estimates, even the FBI admitted it.

Another problem is the winds are averaged over an hour period. Again, not precise.

And here are winds for Portland and Seattle, these are ground winds but show a shifting. All other data with winds aloft matches the same direction as ground at that location. In other words, winds aloft matched ground wind direction that night. It shows that the winds were shifting.. further making the argument that the winds at the jump "time/location" are unknown.

SeattleNov241971.jpeg.2234a9a8914764f5497b7a9830313441.jpeg

portlandNov241971.jpeg.8eeb49a8fddeccd621007c46f1716d4c.jpeg

Edited by FLYJACK

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9 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Yes, there was SE wind, Seattle data.. 

But the takeaway is there is no data for the 8:10-8:12 time frame at the "jump" location.

Even the radiosonde data is too far away to be reliable.

All we have are estimates, even the FBI admitted it.

 

SEATAC was about 100 Statute Miles from ever proposed jump location.  The Portland weather station was on the Portland International Airport and was only about 10 to 15 miles from ever proposed jump location.

Weather Underground data clearly shows that the measured ground winds at PIA never exceeded about 12 MPH on the day of the hijacking.  Bohan claimed it was so windy that he had trouble landing a Boeing 727 there that day.

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19 minutes ago, Robert99 said:

SEATAC was about 100 Statute Miles from ever proposed jump location.  The Portland weather station was on the Portland International Airport and was only about 10 to 15 miles from ever proposed jump location.

Weather Underground data clearly shows that the measured ground winds at PIA never exceeded about 12 MPH on the day of the hijacking.  Bohan claimed it was so windy that he had trouble landing a Boeing 727 there that day.

It was up to 25 miles from Portland. (45 miles to the Placard from Portland)

You consistently fail to recognize that the wind data is not defined down to the minute, but averaged over an hour. The direction and intensity can vary within that hour. It can vary within a few miles. The winds at Portland averaged between 8-9 are not a very reliable proxy for the wind 20-25 miles North at exactly 8:11/12.

My argument is not that the wind was from a specific direction but that we don't know and the often used FBI data is an estimate, not a fact.

Using winds from the SW as a fact in an argument is false.

IMO, the wind was most likely from the SE to SW... at 8:11/12 on the flightpath. 

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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5 hours ago, DFS346 said:

Thank you. I think that Schiffer has stock of the book in their warehouse in Atglen, PA. Darren Schaefer and I recorded about two hours of material on 10.27.2021 and I believe he will broadcast sometime in the next 10 days.

It will go live late night this Sunday! A great episode. 

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15 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Meh, same old..

There is more on the FBI investigating KC in the FBI files than Hahneman, by your logic KC can't be Cooper or the FBI would have figured it out. The same argument you use against Hahneman can be applied to KC and you fail to recognize it.

Your argument is irrational.

but, I get it your KC narrative is threatened by the facts so you lash out.. KC was not Cooper and you know it but have to defend it because you are so emotionally invested. It isn't personal, it is reality.

The evidence..

Cooper had thin lips and a protruding lower lip. That can be many people but it does eliminate most.

Cooper was Latin/Mexican in features and characteristics as well as "swarthy/olive" complexion.

Anybody that ignores that has zero credibility.

Nobody's lashing out. The book on KC is sold in wholesale and me trying to convince anyone of its accuracy in order to boost book sales doesn't understand how the trade wholesale biz works. It's like me trying to convince a janitor at the Rose Bowl during the game to buy the book...when it is already being offered up to everyone actually IN the stadium for the game.

It's pointless. 

My argument is NOT irrational. Hahneman was arrested, convicted, and jailed for over ten years by the same people who were investigating Cooper. Hahneman pulled off a similar hijacking just a few months AFTER Cooper. You assume the FBI didn't consider the idea that Cooper and Hahneman might be the same person. And finding out the truth on that would have been an easy matter. You bring in the witnesses. You don't need a sketch because you already have photos galore of your suspect to show to those witnesses. The ones the FBI gets from his family, the ones taken by the press when Hahneman was being marched away in handcuffs, and his booking photos. They could even put him in a lineup if they (FBI) chose to do so. And he was arrested just a few months after Cooper, while the search for Cooper was going full-bore. You must think the FBI is plain dumb. 

You don't even have any files on the investigation INTO Hahnaman except for the newspaper stuff. Maybe you should FOIA them and take a look. They will probably reveal to you why the FBI wrote him off right away for the Cooper case. 

I see you jumping on the Latin features thing a lot. But you haven't yet presented a single witness to anything pointing to Hahneman as Cooper. Not one. I have more than a dozen people on the record regarding KC and a 54-page illustrated report out there for free download. Your 'Latin' thing could just be someone with a real nice tan. 

 

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8 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

It was up to 25 miles from Portland. (45 miles to the Placard from Portland)

You consistently fail to recognize that the wind data is not defined down to the minute, but averaged over an hour. The direction and intensity can vary within that hour. It can vary within a few miles. The winds at Portland averaged between 8-9 are not a very reliable proxy for the wind 20-25 miles North at exactly 8:11/12.

My argument is not that the wind was from a specific direction but that we don't know and the often used FBI data is an estimate, not a fact.

Using winds from the SW as a fact in an argument is false.

IMO, the wind was most likely from the SE to SW... at 8:11/12 on the flightpath. 

 

Flyjack, there is nothing to suggest that Cooper jumped 25 miles from PIA.  At 8:11/12, the airliner was not more than 10 miles from PIA.

Where do you get the idea that the wind velocity is averaged over an hour?  The hourly sequence reports are normally prepared about 10 minutes before the hour and report the conditions at that time.  Nothing is averaged over an hour.

The FBI data is, of course, an estimate based on measured and estimated data.  All of the weather data comes from the National Weather Service and their observers at various locations such as the PIA.

The weather is always in a state of flux which is why there are hourly sequence reports and the winds aloft estimates are given for times and altitudes.  Also, the ground winds at such places as PIA are given ever few minutes to aircraft that are landing and taking off.

Edited by Robert99

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11 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Nobody's lashing out. The book on KC is sold in wholesale and me trying to convince anyone of its accuracy in order to boost book sales doesn't understand how the trade wholesale biz works. It's like me trying to convince a janitor at the Rose Bowl during the game to buy the book...when it is already being offered up to everyone actually IN the stadium for the game.

It's pointless. 

My argument is NOT irrational. Hahneman was arrested, convicted, and jailed for over ten years by the same people who were investigating Cooper. Hahneman pulled off a similar hijacking just a few months AFTER Cooper. You assume the FBI didn't consider the idea that Cooper and Hahneman might be the same person. And finding out the truth on that would have been an easy matter. You bring in the witnesses. You don't need a sketch because you already have photos galore of your suspect to show to those witnesses. The ones the FBI gets from his family, the ones taken by the press when Hahneman was being marched away in handcuffs, and his booking photos. They could even put him in a lineup if they (FBI) chose to do so. And he was arrested just a few months after Cooper, while the search for Cooper was going full-bore. You must think the FBI is plain dumb. 

You don't even have any files on the investigation INTO Hahnaman except for the newspaper stuff. Maybe you should FOIA them and take a look. They will probably reveal to you why the FBI wrote him off right away for the Cooper case. 

I see you jumping on the Latin features thing a lot. But you haven't yet presented a single witness to anything pointing to Hahneman as Cooper. Not one. I have more than a dozen people on the record regarding KC and a 54-page illustrated report out there for free download. Your 'Latin' thing could just be someone with a real nice tan. 

 

Robert you keep making claims that are 100% false.. based on assumptions..

I am not going to waste my time giving you all my research to straighten you out, got it.

I have corrected you on some of these things and you just repeat the same falsehoods over and over. You just make stuff up.

So, from my perspective you are incapable or unwilling to absorb facts.

You don't know what you don't know.

You are wrong, and your argument is irrational, you can apply the same one to KC. There is far more on the FBI investigating KC than Hahneman.

KC was not Cooper, not because he was on the FBI radar and dismissed, but because he doesn't match the description and there is no real evidence to support it. 

The Latin thing is not a tan in November.. nobody said tan and witnesses overwhelmingly said features and characteristics as well as complexion..

You can deny it and try to spin out of it all you want, it is reality.

and I don't care what you or anyone thinks of Hahneman, what bothers me is the false statements and claims just made up out of thin air.. 

Edited by FLYJACK

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8 hours ago, Robert99 said:

Flyjack, there is nothing to suggest that Cooper jumped 25 miles from PIA.  At 8:11/12, the airliner was not more than 10 miles from PIA.

Where do you get the idea that the wind velocity is averaged over an hour?  The hourly sequence reports are normally prepared about 10 minutes before the hour and report the conditions at that time.  Nothing is averaged over an hour.

The FBI data is, of course, an estimate based on measured and estimated data.  All of the weather data comes from the National Weather Service and their observers at various locations such as the PIA.

The weather is always in a state of flux which is why there are hourly sequence reports and the winds aloft estimates are given for times and altitudes.  Also, the ground winds at such places as PIA are given ever few minutes to aircraft that are landing and taking off.

Robert99, you have been at this for maybe a decade or so and you still have the basic facts wrong..

I said up to 25 miles from Portland, that is the Lewis River at 8:10. To claim it was not more than 10 miles is 100% false. 10 miles only gets you to Battleground.

The wind data used by the FBI was an ESTIMATE from Portland (25 miles away) and Salem (75 miles away) AND it was between 8-9PM..  It says that right in the FBI document. 

My point is entirely valid,, the wind at the jump spot/time was an estimate, it could have been anywhere between SE to SW and claiming it was from the SW as a fact and using it as evidence is irresponsible. It may have been but it is not known, it was an assumption.

You and Eric kept claiming it as fact way up N to where the placard was found which was ridiculous. You were asked for wind data and produced none. Tom Kaye's wind data is little help as it was also too far away but it did show a more southerly wind.

You and Eric manufactured a premise for the placard argument and WFP but we now know that the Placard did not come from inside 305..

 

WINDESTIMATE.jpeg.badfc64421508201da1f9412f5f2a69f.jpeg

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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2 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Robert99, you have been at this for maybe a decade or so and you still have the basic facts wrong..

I said up to 25 miles from Portland, that is the Lewis River at 8:10. To claim it was not more than 10 miles is 100% false. 10 miles only gets you to Battleground.

The wind data used by the FBI was an ESTIMATE from Portland (25 miles away) and Salem (75 miles away) AND it was between 8-9PM..  It says that right in the FBI document. 

My point is entirely valid,, the wind at the jump spot/time was an estimate, it could have been anywhere between SE to SW and claiming it was from the SW as a fact and using it as evidence is irresponsible. It may have been but it is not known, it was an assumption.

You and Eric kept claiming it as fact way up N to where the placard was found which was ridiculous. You were asked for wind data and produced none. Tom Kaye's wind data is little help as it was also too far away but it did show a more southerly wind.

You and Eric manufactured a premise for the placard argument and WFP but we now know that the Placard did not come from inside 305..

 

WINDESTIMATE.jpeg.badfc64421508201da1f9412f5f2a69f.jpeg

 

Flyjack, ever wind you list above is from the Southwest.  There is not even a hint of the wind being from the Southeast.  The Portland winds and weather are for the Portland International Airport.

You need to visit the FAA's web site, work your way to the FAA publications page and download their publication on Aviation Weather.  It is free.

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48 minutes ago, Robert99 said:

Flyjack, ever wind you list above is from the Southwest.  There is not even a hint of the wind being from the Southeast.  The Portland winds and weather are for the Portland International Airport.

You need to visit the FAA's web site, work your way to the FAA publications page and download their publication on Aviation Weather.  It is free.

You still fail to understand basic facts.

Some of the data I posted is SE and SSE.

Not only did you get the time period and distance wrong, you still fail to understand basic facts and logic.

The wind data used was an average of Portland and Salem over an hour time period.. both far from the LZ and much farther from the placard.

Look up the word "estimate", it is in the FBI file and the dictionary. It is also free.

 

Like Blevins, there is no discussion if you refuse to accept reality.

 

You guys aren't Cooper rookies, time to up your games.

Edited by FLYJACK

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43 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

You still fail to understand basic facts.

Some of the data I posted is SE and SSE.

Not only did you get the time period and distance wrong, you still fail to understand basic facts and logic.

The wind data used was an average of Portland and Salem over an hour time period.. both far from the LZ and much farther from the placard.

Look up the word "estimate", it is in the FBI file and the dictionary. It is also free.

 

Like Blevins, there is no discussion if you refuse to accept reality.

 

You guys aren't Cooper rookies, time to up your games.

Flyjack, NONE of the data you posted above is from the Southeast or even the South.  Everything listed above is from the Southwest.

If the wind was from the Southeast it would be from 135 degrees and if it was from the South it would be from 180 degrees.  But everything you list above is from 225 degrees (which is the Southwest) to 235 degrees (which is 10 degrees West of Southwest).

And remember that the winds aloft are given with respect to True North.  That is, with respect to the grid lines.

If you are not going to make some effort to educate yourself on how winds aloft are measured then I suggest you stop posting on the subject.

The FAA has excellent publications on Aviation Weather and Aircraft Navigation on their web site that can be downloaded and are free.  You need to get those publications and study them.

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44 minutes ago, Robert99 said:

Flyjack, NONE of the data you posted above is from the Southeast or even the South.  Everything listed above is from the Southwest.

If the wind was from the Southeast it would be from 135 degrees and if it was from the South it would be from 180 degrees.  But everything you list above is from 225 degrees (which is the Southwest) to 235 degrees (which is 10 degrees West of Southwest).

And remember that the winds aloft are given with respect to True North.  That is, with respect to the grid lines.

If you are not going to make some effort to educate yourself on how winds aloft are measured then I suggest you stop posting on the subject.

The FAA has excellent publications on Aviation Weather and Aircraft Navigation on their web site that can be downloaded and are free.  You need to get those publications and study them.

Now that is funny..

I know what winds aloft are and the measured degrees.

You have no idea what is going on..   you haven't read the docs, you haven't understood your own errors. You don't understand the issue.

The winds aloft for Portland and Salem were averaged over 8-9PM then applied as an ESTIMATE for Cooper's LZ..  that is a fact it is clearly stated in the FBI files. Even the FBI adjusted the direction and created a new search area.

Other data indicates that the winds were shifting between SE and SW between Seattle and Portland. 

The point is simple. It is not a fact that the wind was from the SW at about 8:11 along the flightpath. This is not disputable, it is just the truth.

Clearly, you can't see the truth and I really don't know what your argument is..

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Flyjack says in part:

Quote

 

'Robert you keep making claims that are 100% false.. based on assumptions..

I am not going to waste my time giving you all my research to straighten you out, got it.

I have corrected you on some of these things and you just repeat the same falsehoods over and over. You just make stuff up.

So, from my perspective you are incapable or unwilling to absorb facts.

You don't know what you don't know.

You are wrong, and your argument is irrational, you can apply the same one to KC. There is far more on the FBI investigating KC than Hahneman.

KC was not Cooper, not because he was on the FBI radar and dismissed, but because he doesn't match the description and there is no real evidence to support it. 

The Latin thing is not a tan in November.. nobody said tan and witnesses overwhelmingly said features and characteristics as well as complexion..

You can deny it and try to spin out of it all you want, it is reality.

and I don't care what you or anyone thinks of Hahneman, what bothers me is the false statements and claims just made up out of thin air.. '

 

 

What the hell is 'made up'? I only quote the official press clippings and the known record on him.

Hahneman turned himself in to the FBI...was convicted of air piracy done in a similar fashion to Cooper's...(a little more harshly perhaps)...spent more than ten years in Federal prison for this...and you expect people to believe something else? That is not an assumption. That is the official record. 

And so far you have not come up with a single bit of hard evidence showing that Hahneman was even in the Pacific Northwest at the time of the Cooper caper? You have not come up with a single witness who testified he might be Cooper, or had something to do with that crime. You have absolutely NOTHING except the fact that Hahneman was Hispanic and you think Cooper was Mexican or Hispanic. You don't even know why the FBI wrote him off for Cooper, or even if his picture was shown to the Cooper witnesses...or if he was ever put in a lineup for them either while he was being convicted, or later when he did his dozen years in Federal prison. 

The truth is...you don't have a bit of evidence and don't even know how the FBI dealt with him. You think the FBI never considered the idea Hahneman might have been Cooper, even though Hahneman pulled off HIS hijacking only a few months after Cooper. That is foolish. Of COURSE they thought of it long before you did. And they undoubtedly checked him out for the Cooper crime. Why wouldn't they? In 1972 they were beating the bushes and pounding the pavement looking for Cooper. You think the FBI just said 'la dee da' regarding Hahneman after he turned himself in? How blind can you be? You are the one ignoring the hard truth here, my friend. Not me. 

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6 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Flyjack says in part:

 

What the hell is 'made up'? I only quote the official press clippings and the known record on him.

Hahneman turned himself in to the FBI...was convicted of air piracy done in a similar fashion to Cooper's...(a little more harshly perhaps)...spent more than ten years in Federal prison for this...and you expect people to believe something else? That is not an assumption. That is the official record. 

And so far you have not come up with a single bit of hard evidence showing that Hahneman was even in the Pacific Northwest at the time of the Cooper caper? You have not come up with a single witness who testified he might be Cooper, or had something to do with that crime. You have absolutely NOTHING except the fact that Hahneman was Hispanic and you think Cooper was Mexican or Hispanic. You don't even know why the FBI wrote him off for Cooper, or even if his picture was shown to the Cooper witnesses...or if he was ever put in a lineup for them either while he was being convicted, or later when he did his dozen years in Federal prison. 

The truth is...you don't have a bit of evidence and don't even know how the FBI dealt with him. You think the FBI never considered the idea Hahneman might have been Cooper, even though Hahneman pulled off HIS hijacking only a few months after Cooper. That is foolish. Of COURSE they thought of it long before you did. And they undoubtedly checked him out for the Cooper crime. Why wouldn't they? In 1972 they were beating the bushes and pounding the pavement looking for Cooper. You think the FBI just said 'la dee da' regarding Hahneman after he turned himself in? How blind can you be? You are the one ignoring the hard truth here, my friend. Not me. 

Nope, your comment is riddled with false statements. Stuff you just made up.

Let me say this, I have a lot more than you think I do.

 

All I did was point out a few of the indisputable facts that are irrelevant to Hahneman..

Cooper was Latin/Mexican in features and appearance as well as swarthy/olive complexion.

Cooper had thin lips and a protruding lower lip.

 

You can't accept the truth because it hurts KC's case,, so

You attacked me with lies about what I have or don't have when you have no idea, zero.

 

I haven't laid out the case. You have no idea what evidence I have but make false claims over and over about it..

Seriously, you have zero cred on this... you assume I have nothing because I haven't shared it, that is an error in logic and extremely ignorant.

 

 

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2 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Now that is funny..

I know what winds aloft are and the measured degrees.

You have no idea what is going on..   you haven't read the docs, you haven't understood your own errors. You don't understand the issue.

The winds aloft for Portland and Salem were averaged over 8-9PM then applied as an ESTIMATE for Cooper's LZ..  that is a fact it is clearly stated in the FBI files. Even the FBI adjusted the direction and created a new search area.

Other data indicates that the winds were shifting between SE and SW between Seattle and Portland. 

The point is simple. It is not a fact that the wind was from the SW at about 8:11 along the flightpath. This is not disputable, it is just the truth.

Clearly, you can't see the truth and I really don't know what your argument is..

Again, there is no such thing in Aviation Weather reports as AVERAGED winds aloft.

You agree above that the winds were from the Southwest at the time Cooper jumped.  So what is your problem?

Also, there is no evidence whatsoever that the winds aloft in the Portland area were ever from the Southeast on the evening of the hijacking.

What are you trying to accomplish by denying the validity of the proven weather conditions? 

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49 minutes ago, Robert99 said:

Again, there is no such thing in Aviation Weather reports as AVERAGED winds aloft.

You agree above that the winds were from the Southwest at the time Cooper jumped.  So what is your problem?

Also, there is no evidence whatsoever that the winds aloft in the Portland area were ever from the Southeast on the evening of the hijacking.

What are you trying to accomplish by denying the validity of the proven weather conditions? 

I have no problem, you seem to be confused.

The FBI stated, as I posted the image several times now that they averaged the wind data from Salem and Portland over 8-9PM, that is an average. That data was used as an ESTIMATE (their word) for Cooper's jump time/place.

That is a fact,, it is indisputable,, 

That ESTIMATE is not a fact.. 

Why is it an unreliable estimate.

Salem is 75 miles from the Lewis R and Portland is 25 miles from the Lewis R. Too far to be reliable. 

The wind data was averaged over an hour 8-9PM.. not at a specific time like 8:11.

So, we don't have data for exactly 8:11 and the direction/speed was an average from far away.

Further, other wind data shows that the wind from Seattle to Portland was shifting between the SE and SW..

The conclusion is simple, you can't state as a fact the wind at Cooper's jump time/place was from the SW.

It might have been, it might not have been.

There is no wind data (not TomK's) at the Cooper jump time/place, so they used an estimate. 

 

Why is this so hard to understand,, it is right in the FBI documents.

What exactly are you having trouble understanding.

Did you actually read the FBI document I posted twice?

 

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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21 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Hahneman pulled off a similar hijacking just a few months AFTER Cooper. You assume the FBI didn't consider the idea that Cooper and Hahneman might be the same person. And finding out the truth on that would have been an easy matter.

 

"My second-favorite suspect is McCoy. I still believe its possible he did it".

Robert Blevins - 9/21/2019 page 2394

 

Edited by ParrotheadVol
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6 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

I have no problem, you seem to be confused.

The FBI stated, as I posted the image several times now that they averaged the wind data from Salem and Portland over 8-9PM, that is an average. That data was used as an ESTIMATE (their word) for Cooper's jump time/place.

That is a fact,, it is indisputable,, 

That ESTIMATE is not a fact.. 

Why is it an unreliable estimate.

Salem is 75 miles from the Lewis R and Portland is 25 miles from the Lewis R. Too far to be reliable. 

The wind data was averaged over an hour 8-9PM.. not at a specific time like 8:11.

So, we don't have data for exactly 8:11 and the direction/speed was an average from far away.

Further, other wind data shows that the wind from Seattle to Portland was shifting between the SE and SW..

The conclusion is simple, you can't state as a fact the wind at Cooper's jump time/place was from the SW.

It might have been, it might not have been.

There is no wind data (not TomK's) at the Cooper jump time/place, so they used an estimate. 

 

Why is this so hard to understand,, it is right in the FBI documents.

What exactly are you having trouble understanding.

Did you actually read the FBI document I posted twice?

 

 

Again and for the last time, you need to do some reading of the FAA Aviation Weather publications and see how the winds aloft are predicted for use in flight.  

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5 hours ago, ParrotheadVol said:

"My second-favorite suspect is McCoy. I still believe its possible he did it".

Robert Blevins - 9/21/2019 page 2394

That is very true. I did say that. And to tell you the truth, I still believe it. I have never completely written off McCoy as possibly being DB Cooper. Some FBI agents were pretty convinced McCoy was Cooper. And for years I was pretty convinced as well. McCoy's alibi was a little shaky. Some folks say it was all based on a phone call from Nevada back home to Utah, and a credit card receipt for gasoline...both of which could have been done by a person OTHER than McCoy...in order to help him establish an alibi. 

And you have to remember that his wife...if she wasn't in on the actual planning of the hijacking McCoy was known to have done...knew what he planned to do beforehand. I thought maybe she was the one who used the card and made the phone call while Little Richard was up there in Portland. Who knows? Why not McCoy? Here in 2021, I do not say that I am absolutely sure Kenneth Christiansen was Cooper. Reason is because I can't say for sure. 

The possibility that KC was Cooper has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not Hahneman was Cooper. Different suspects, different situations. The difference between them is that Hahneman is a known quantity because he DID hijack a plane. He was caught and pled guilty. He went to Federal prison for a dozen years. Yet Flyjack would have you believe that even without producing a single shred of evidence other than the possibility Cooper was of Hispanic origin...that Hahneman was Cooper. He doesn't give the FBI any credit for wondering the same thing, since the Cooper and Hahneman hijackings had some similarities. Flyjack would have you believe that the FBI just bypassed the idea that Cooper and Hahneman might be the same guy. Are you kidding me? They probably wondered that the minute Hahneman asked for parachutes and money, i.e. even before he was identified. "Here we go again..." 

I am here to tell you that the Feds would have looked into that possibility not only very quickly...but thoroughly. And like I said before, it wouldn't take them very long to get to the truth. The Cooper hijacking had only happened a few months prior to Hahneman's stunt over Honduras, and the FBI had witnesses aplenty to either point the finger at Hahneman and say he was Cooper...or to tell them 'no way'. And no relying on some sketch, either. They had pictures. They had flight crew witnesses, passenger witnesses to tap on the shoulder. Even the ticket agent.

Flyjack keeps saying he has more evidence. Okay...what evidence? So far he hasn't produced a shred of it other than the idea that the FBI was extremely dumb, and Cooper might be Hispanic. That's it. And since the Feds (same guys looking for Cooper hot and heavy...same guys who caught and jailed Hahneman) had old Fred H in prison for a dozen years, it makes sense they would have been able to hang the Cooper caper on him if Hahneman was their man. But he doesn't even get much mention, if any...in the Cooper files. We are asked to believe that the FBI spent millions more chasing Cooper and a ton of man hours while their most obvious suspect to date...since he had just done a similar crime and was caught...they simply ignored. 

Baloney. With a capital 'B'. My money says they were checking out Hahneman even BEFORE he turned himself in down in Honduras. 

Any reasonable person would have come to the same conclusion I did. That the FBI checked out Fred H for the Cooper crime and found out quickly he wasn't the guy they were looking for. Either the witnesses said no, or they established his whereabouts on 11/24/71, or both. 

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