22 22
quade

DB Cooper

Recommended Posts

(edited)
3 hours ago, The Cooper Vortex said:

Jo Weber passed away February 11th 2021. Rest In Peace Jo. 

I was one of the few people she never hounded about the Cooper case. Plus I have Caller ID. I didn't mind Jo Weber. I even enhanced a few damaged pictures for her, like the one below. But she could never accept the fact that she married a guy who wasn't very truthful about his background. She was so convinced that Duane was Cooper that when she couldn't convince anyone of it...she resorted to just making up things, and that's why Cooper fans and Cooper folk turned on her. 

In some ways, I felt sorry for her. RIP Jo Weber. 

Below: Jo and Duane in 1979.

DuaneforWebsite.jpg.c7ab52f9c84de8e39cae8d2b36e15c4b.jpg

Duane and his boss when he was selling insurance:

DuaneInFrontofSign.jpg.f36b225bebb466d73db5bac69aa017e8.jpg

To prove I DO have a sense of humor, I have dragged out 'Interview With Stickman,' a minor comedy bit I did a few years back in the Olympic mountains on a camping trip. 'Stickman' is a Rasta journalist made of sticks, brought to life, and who decided to follow 'me' up to my campsite for a weird kind of interview about Cooper and other subjects. 

Due to river noise in the background, it is advised you turn the treble control on your speakers completely OFF. (*insert evil laugh HERE*)

 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(edited)

Why do people push nonsense.. read the files..

FBI lab approximately $5800 on TBAR..  100 bills per packet, that is 3 packets with one missing a few.

There is nothing to support 2 packets,, 

The misinformation in this case is off the charts,

 

coopmoney5800.jpeg.8d58af51e4da04dfd1029708b2158c55.jpeg

billorder.jpeg.2b37e847c1bd91eef1561e9611db259a.jpeg

 

Edited by FLYJACK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

 

'Why do people push nonsense.. read the files..

FBI lab approximately $5800 on TBAR..  100 bills per packet, that is 3 packets with one missing a few.

There is nothing to support 2 packets,, 

The misinformation in this case is off the charts...'

 

What people? I looked back a couple of pages and saw absolutely NO ONE here at Dropzone claim what you claim they said. You also didn't credit the mis-informational post with a name. So no one reading your post has the slightest idea what you are talking about, or what Dropzone user you are referring to... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

What people? I looked back a couple of pages and saw absolutely NO ONE here at Dropzone claim what you claim they said. You also didn't credit the mis-informational post with a name. So no one reading your post has the slightest idea what you are talking about, or what Dropzone user you are referring to... 

The who isn't important.. that is noise,

The fact is the FBI lab determined approximately $5800 or 3 packets..

and the bills were in the same sequence and packaging.. as given to Cooper.

coopermoneybills.jpeg.f4579f4e5ce4284007a65a8ad0b0137d.jpeg

 

"Under the proposed judgment, which must be approved by U.S. District Judge Helen Frye, the federal government would keep $280 for use as evidence should anyone be prosecuted in the unsolved 1971 hijacking in which $200,000 was paid as ransom. Ingram and Globe Indemnity would split the remaining $5,520 equally."

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1986-05-22-mn-6995-story.html

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(edited)

Yeah...but you keep disputing what people are saying regarding the Tina Bar money, or points on the case in general...and the people you allege say these things don't post to this thread at Dropzone. You have the right idea, but the wrong mailbox. The wrong website. Maybe you should address these folks and what they say...where they actually hang out on the internet?

Edited by RobertMBlevins

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Yeah...but you keep disputing what people are saying regarding the Tina Bar money, or points on the case in general...and the people you allege say these things don't post to this thread at Dropzone. You have the right idea, but the wrong mailbox. The wrong website. Maybe you should address these folks and what they say...where they actually hang out on the internet?

Robert, you fail to recognize the goal..

The purpose is not to dispute or debate others (unless they lie about me), that has proven to be useless.

The purpose is to inform everyone else about the facts so everyone can determine the truth based on being informed. I post info for everyone else.

In this case, the info confirms what the FBI has claimed and what most of us have believed.

 

If others choose to reject that info that is their problem.

 

In fact, I prefer that some of these prominent Cooper personalities continue to get things wrong in the face of contradictory evidence..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(edited)

Rataczak said during his speech at NWA..

"about 28 miles N of Portland he (Cooper) jumped out of the airplane"

 

If the "pressure bump" occurred over the Columbia River Ratazcak would have known it.

THAT clearly indicates Cooper did not land near the Columbia River.

 

Rataczak also said he just talked to Himmelsbach and the money was in a paper wrapper.. (bank bands) when given to Cooper.

That means the TBAR rubber band frags attached were holding the packets in one single rubber banded bundle.

AND the TBAR money likely arrived as one rubber banded bundle of packets..

Edited by FLYJACK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Rataczak said during his speech at NWA..

"about 28 miles N of Portland he (Cooper) jumped out of the airplane"

 

If the "pressure bump" occurred over the Columbia River Ratazcak would have known it.

THAT clearly indicates Cooper did not land near the Columbia River.

 

Rataczak also said he just talked to Himmelsbach and the money was in a paper wrapper.. (bank bands) when given to Cooper.

That means the TBAR rubber band frags attached were holding the packets in one single rubber banded bundle.

AND the TBAR money likely arrived as one rubber banded bundle of packets..

Sounds like the money was in a large paper grocery bag!  Or maybe H was just expressing an opinion? Maybe H had no personal knowledge. Lots of options of course. You keep reciting the options that fit your narrative. You sound unsure ?  (laughing)  Its also strange Rataczak would divert from his lecture to zero down on how the money was wrapped? Jo Weber must have called him and asked .... ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I do believe some baselines in the Cooper case. I call them baselines although there is very little in the Cooper case you could truly call 'baseline'.

But here are a few for the record:

I believe Cooper jumped north of the Columbia River.

The idea that Flight 305 crossed over Tina Bar, miles west of the actual flight path, is ridiculous. 

I think Cooper had an accomplice. Otherwise he probably wouldn't have made it home (wherever home WAS for him) after he landed. Someone assisted him before the hijacking, and later...on the ground. He didn't just walk out from the middle of nowhere and all the way home by himself. A day or two after the hijacking, all law enforcement and damn near everyone in the Great Northwest were looking for him. He may have walked out of the woods, but I am sure he got a ride home from someone. 

I do NOT believe Cooper had a two way radio or an exact prearranged spot where this alleged accomplice was waiting. I think they arranged a contact phone number and it was Cooper's job to somehow reach a pay phone and call for a ride out of the area. 

I think Cooper's original intention was to jump somewhat farther north than where he actually did, but he was delayed at a rate of three miles per minute messing around with the aft stairs door, putting on the chute, cutting paracord and wrapping the money with it, etc. These activities took extra precious time and the result was Cooper jumping further south than he wanted to. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(edited)
10 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Rataczak said during his speech at NWA..

"about 28 miles N of Portland he (Cooper) jumped out of the airplane"

 

If the "pressure bump" occurred over the Columbia River Ratazcak would have known it.

THAT clearly indicates Cooper did not land near the Columbia River.

 

Rataczak also said he just talked to Himmelsbach and the money was in a paper wrapper.. (bank bands) when given to Cooper.

That means the TBAR rubber band frags attached were holding the packets in one single rubber banded bundle.

AND the TBAR money likely arrived as one rubber banded bundle of packets..

"If the 'pressure bump' occurred over the Columbia River Rataczak would have known it."  Just exactly how would Rataczak have known this?

Rataczak was at 10,000 feet above the ground which he could not see due to an overcast and several cloud layers under the airliner.  Further, the Columbia River is not even shown on the radio navigation charts that Rataczak was using.

Further, neither Rataczak or Himmelsbach saw the money before it was given to Cooper.

Edited by Robert99

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

 

"If the 'pressure bump' occurred over the Columbia River Rataczak would have known it."  Just exactly how would Rataczak have known this?

Rataczak was at 10,000 feet above the ground which he could not see due to an overcast and several cloud layers under the airliner.  Further, the Columbia River is not even shown on the radio navigation charts that Rataczak was using...'

 

Yeah. Uh...pilots on commercial airliners have had several methods to determine their position besides just 'looking out the cockpit windows,' and for a few decades prior to Cooper. If they didn't, airliners would be crashing into each other all the time. You're the guy who believes 305 flew over Tina Bar when everyone else knows that this possibility is not only impossible, but ridiculous at best. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(edited)
8 hours ago, Robert99 said:

"If the 'pressure bump' occurred over the Columbia River Rataczak would have known it."  Just exactly how would Rataczak have known this?

Rataczak was at 10,000 feet above the ground which he could not see due to an overcast and several cloud layers under the airliner.  Further, the Columbia River is not even shown on the radio navigation charts that Rataczak was using.

Further, neither Rataczak or Himmelsbach saw the money before it was given to Cooper.

C'mon, you really think Rataczak gets it wrong by about 28 miles..

You think he didn't know where the Airport or Portland was. They saw the glow...

Rataczak said he was flying the plane by hand.

and they would have been very very close the Airport.. they made that turn West around the Airport and over the Western side of Portland. Ratazcak would have known exactly where he was to make that turn.

 

 

Tina saw the money and held it, she confirmed "bank style bands around each package".

 

Guys, it is 2021, not 2011, it is time to give up your old theories and accept reality, the case has moved on. You can create doubt with virtually anything but at some point the evidence becomes overwhelming.

Edited by FLYJACK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(edited)

I was reviewing this video and there was a strange statement that jumped out..

This guy had the Sheriff's notes.. he read the top line on one page "ordered pilot to fly over I5"

We have always been told Cooper never gave path instructions.. the path did generally follow I5, it drifted East N of Portland but followed more closely S of Portland..

Either this was an error or it is true and was held back by the FBI.

It does make sense in that Cooper could potentially know where he was if he could see I5.

He may have ordered the pilot over I5 with the expectation that he could determine his location. Whether he did or not is another question.

 

from 2:45..

 
4:08  "ordered pilot to fly over I5"
 

 

Hard to read but the top line says... ordered pilot to fly over next line I5.

 
i5.jpeg.81aa27098ffbe43c87408756a6d76f84.jpeg
 
Edited by FLYJACK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Yeah. Uh...pilots on commercial airliners have had several methods to determine their position besides just 'looking out the cockpit windows,' and for a few decades prior to Cooper. If they didn't, airliners would be crashing into each other all the time. You're the guy who believes 305 flew over Tina Bar when everyone else knows that this possibility is not only impossible, but ridiculous at best. 

 

Blevins, so now you are an expert on aircraft navigation.  Do you know which end of a compass points north?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

C'mon, you really think Rataczak gets it wrong by about 28 miles..

You think he didn't know where the Airport or Portland was. They saw the glow...

Rataczak said he was flying the plane by hand.

and they would have been very very close the Airport.. they made that turn West around the Airport and over the Western side of Portland. Ratazcak would have known exactly where he was to make that turn.

 

 

Tina saw the money and held it, she confirmed "bank style bands around each package".

 

Guys, it is 2021, not 2011, it is time to give up your old theories and accept reality, the case has moved on. You can create doubt with virtually anything but at some point the evidence becomes overwhelming.

First, you need to actually read what I posted.  If you have ever seen the glow of a large city at night through several cloud layers, you know that you cannot pinpoint your position from that glow.

And you are saying that the airliner flew "over the Western side of Portland"?  OMG, Blevins has just posted that everyone knows that is impossible and ridiculous.  Who to believe? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Robert99 said:

Blevins, so now you are an expert on aircraft navigation.  Do you know which end of a compass points north?

I'm pretty darn good with a compass and a map out in the woods. I do know some things about your background (most of the people who are well-known and have been heavily involved in the Cooper case here at Dropzone and at the Cooper Forum...I have run them on US Search at one time or another.) And yes, I do have some respect for you based on what I discovered. Same goes for Georger, at least for the most part.

It is fair to tell everyone that I have reasons I believe the official flight record released by the FBI years ago is accurate. 

One reason is because of the two chase planes out of McChord, whose pilots may not have seen Cooper actually jump, but who were in radar contact with the flight and may have had visual on its lights. 

Another is the radar sources tracking 305. Another reason is because NWA, the FBI, and even ATC had ample time to prepare for what was going to happen next (everyone knew Cooper wanted to go south after 305 left SeaTac Airport.) This was not a touch and go kind of thing. They had hours on the ground to prepare, and planned to catch Cooper after he jumped by rushing law enforcement to any area at the jump point. (Only they didn't count on Cooper jumping over an area that was generally lightly patrolled at night....meaning the little country roads and sparsely (back then) populated areas of Clark and Cowlitz counties. I mean it wasn't like those places had hundreds of cops out there ready to go. Most of them were assigned to the more populated areas near the I-5 freeway. There were probably more USFS rangers out there than actual cops, I imagine. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(edited)
1 hour ago, Robert99 said:

First, you need to actually read what I posted.  If you have ever seen the glow of a large city at night through several cloud layers, you know that you cannot pinpoint your position from that glow.

And you are saying that the airliner flew "over the Western side of Portland"?  OMG, Blevins has just posted that everyone knows that is impossible and ridiculous.  Who to believe? 

If Cooper jumped over the Columbia, the pilots would have been in the Portland glow so they would have known where they were. Why are you having such a hard time with this.. you gave it a good shot but it is time to move on... there is no evidence to support your argument. All you have is sowing doubt in contradictory evidence. If that is your strategy I can only assume your goal is not to get to the truth..

Blevins said TBAR.  

The plane flew over the Western side of Portland not West of Portland.

Edited by FLYJACK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

I was reviewing this video and there was a strange statement that jumped out..

 

A few points...

Interesting that Donna Elliot says that she heard the plane and that it sounded low.

How does 'east side of Amboy' relate to the flight path(s)?

The guy with the notebook says 'went on to tell'... 'ordered the pilot to fly over I5'. It doesn't necessarily say who gave that order. Is it possible the authorities gave that order, to put Cooper closer to, as Blevins says, more populated areas that would have more cops available for a search?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(edited)
33 minutes ago, dudeman17 said:

 

A few points...

Interesting that Donna Elliot says that she heard the plane and that it sounded low.

How does 'east side of Amboy' relate to the flight path(s)?

The guy with the notebook says 'went on to tell'... 'ordered the pilot to fly over I5'. It doesn't necessarily say who gave that order. Is it possible the authorities gave that order, to put Cooper closer to, as Blevins says, more populated areas that would have more cops available for a search?

Donna Elliot is unreliable.. ignore that.

The pilots were not taking orders from anyone other than Cooper,, they were given full authority.

The notes are legit, the question is if they are accurate.

Edited by FLYJACK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(edited)

Here in the notes,,

olive complexion, latin in appearance, black curly hair, normal cut, parted on left.

 

That rules out most higher profile suspects.. 

Everybody has ignored this...

 

coopernote.jpeg.04cfc011870ba920a8c616ba7bd4c004.jpeg

 

 

Edited by FLYJACK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

If Cooper jumped over the Columbia, the pilots would have been in the Portland glow so they would have known where they were. Why are you having such a hard time with this.. you gave it a good shot but it is time to move on... there is no evidence to support your argument. All you have is sowing doubt in contradictory evidence. If that is your strategy I can only assume your goal is not to get to the truth..

Blevins said TBAR.  

The plane flew over the Western side of Portland not West of Portland.

Now you are claiming that Rataczak knew where the Portland City Limits were.  Next, you will probably claim that he could see the REI store in Portland.

Just remember that it was in actual fact a dark and stormy night and the flight crew could not see the ground because of the clouds below them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

I'm pretty darn good with a compass and a map out in the woods. I do know some things about your background (most of the people who are well-known and have been heavily involved in the Cooper case here at Dropzone and at the Cooper Forum...I have run them on US Search at one time or another.) And yes, I do have some respect for you based on what I discovered. Same goes for Georger, at least for the most part.

It is fair to tell everyone that I have reasons I believe the official flight record released by the FBI years ago is accurate. 

One reason is because of the two chase planes out of McChord, whose pilots may not have seen Cooper actually jump, but who were in radar contact with the flight and may have had visual on its lights. 

Another is the radar sources tracking 305. Another reason is because NWA, the FBI, and even ATC had ample time to prepare for what was going to happen next (everyone knew Cooper wanted to go south after 305 left SeaTac Airport.) This was not a touch and go kind of thing. They had hours on the ground to prepare, and planned to catch Cooper after he jumped by rushing law enforcement to any area at the jump point. (Only they didn't count on Cooper jumping over an area that was generally lightly patrolled at night....meaning the little country roads and sparsely (back then) populated areas of Clark and Cowlitz counties. I mean it wasn't like those places had hundreds of cops out there ready to go. Most of them were assigned to the more populated areas near the I-5 freeway. There were probably more USFS rangers out there than actual cops, I imagine. 

 

There is no documentation for what you suggest in the last paragraph above.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Robert99 said:

Now you are claiming that Rataczak knew where the Portland City Limits were.  Next, you will probably claim that he could see the REI store in Portland.

Just remember that it was in actual fact a dark and stormy night and the flight crew could not see the ground because of the clouds below them.

Now you are just consuming your own credibility. Ridicule isn't an actual argument.

This isn't difficult,, they crew noted the lights of Portland, therefore they knew where Portland was. Rataczak was manually flying the plane which turned right before Portland. He would have known if Cooper jumped over the Columbia.. He said Cooper jumped about 28 miles North. 

So, that is very clear.

You just have no reasonable argument, none. Check Mate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(edited)
12 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Now you are just consuming your own credibility. Ridicule isn't an actual argument.

This isn't difficult,, they crew noted the lights of Portland, therefore they knew where Portland was. Rataczak was manually flying the plane which turned right before Portland. He would have known if Cooper jumped over the Columbia.. He said Cooper jumped about 28 miles North. 

So, that is very clear.

You just have no reasonable argument, none. Check Mate.

What is the source of your claim that Rataczak said "Cooper jumped about 28 miles North" of wherever?  In the printed version of Rataczak's remarks to the NWA retirees, he doesn't give a location.  He only says that he told whoever he was talking to on the radio (presumably the ARINC frequency) to "mark your maps." 

That simple remark also suggests that Rataczak wasn't sure of his location at that moment since the onboard VORTAC data was more accurate in the Portland area than data from a radar station which was 60 or 70 miles away. 

This also admits to the possibility that the airliner was not tracking down the centerline of V-12 but was flying headings to the Canby Intersection area and did not have relevant "to-from" information to any VORTAC.

Edited by Robert99

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(edited)
1 hour ago, Robert99 said:

What is the source of your claim that Rataczak said "Cooper jumped about 28 miles North" of wherever?  In the printed version of Rataczak's remarks to the NWA retirees, he doesn't give a location.  He only says that he told whoever he was talking to on the radio (presumably the ARINC frequency) to "mark your maps." 

That simple remark also suggests that Rataczak wasn't sure of his location at that moment since the onboard VORTAC data was more accurate in the Portland area than data from a radar station which was 60 or 70 miles away. 

This also admits to the possibility that the airliner was not tracking down the centerline of V-12 but was flying headings to the Canby Intersection area and did not have relevant "to-from" information to any VORTAC.

I have the DVD of his presentation, it is about 1.5 hours long..

He said.. the exact quote.

"about 28 miles North of Portland he (Cooper) jumped out of the airplane"

We both know if Cooper jumped over the Columbia based on the "pressure bump" timing Rataczak would have known.

The pressure bump could not have occurred over/near the Columbia based on Rataczak's statement.

 

northwest-airlines-b-cooper-hijacking_1_7283199d3cf317b36cc07b56d15e9c76.jpg.33f822b592b2337c1d5522f7d8053a20.jpg

Edited by FLYJACK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

22 22