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DB Cooper

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34 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

 

The store break in fits Cooper well, right area, right time, right stuff stolen... right along the rail tracks.

I'm really amazed at what was reported stolen.

And guessing, by what wasn't stolen.

No liquor was stolen? If I was FBI or LE, I would have looked for clues like that, for guessing who broke in. Kids, homeless, etc.

And in 1971, I don't think it would be common for homeless to be wearing "military" footgear.

too bad they didn't do a cast of the footprint back then.

Amazing there's no more detail about the investigation (or non-investigation) of this break-in.

Edited by snowmman

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In terms of "being all over the place"

Of course.

It's just the internet. There's no job or official investigation. Just random people posting random stuff.

There's no "protocol" or need to be focused on anything, really.

It's just social media. Very few fules.

I'm surprised I can post here. Quade said I was banned for life. Is Quade still moderating?

Who's in charge here! I need to be banned! for violating the rules!

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13 minutes ago, snowmman said:

In terms of "being all over the place"

Of course.

It's just the internet. There's no job or official investigation. Just random people posting random stuff.

There's no "protocol" or need to be focused on anything, really.

It's just social media. Very few fules.

I'm surprised I can post here. Quade said I was banned for life. Is Quade still moderating?

Who's in charge here! I need to be banned! for violating the rules!

I don't mean it negatively,, I already went over the recent stuff you have been posting when you were away and got very little response so it is good to see you are now discovering these things as well...

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4 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

I don't mean it negatively,, I already went over the recent stuff you have been posting when you were away and got very little response so it is good to see you are now discovering these things as well...

Yes I don't really use the dropzone.com search. It seems more cumbersome then it used to be. 

Also, google search doesn't seem to hit dropzone.com well. I wonder if they tell google not to crawl these pages. 

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On 3/25/2020 at 5:47 AM, FLYJACK said:

The description was slipons, no laces, but they might not have been, some have really high laces and look like slipons, there was also a low ankle boot with no laces.

Those soles were called commando soles... they began in the 1940's.

Many different shoes had them or copied them.. I had a pair of Doc Martins in the 1980's that had the commando soles but looked like dress shoes..

There were many like this.. a low ankle boot, no laces and commando sole. Would look like a slipon...

If Cooper was jumping an ankle boot similar to this makes the most sense. IMO.

s-l1600-4.jpg.38fe96211d64672e2c1520aaac5c0cbc.jpg

 

I found vintage loafers with commando sole..

m_5ccd19e479df275313005332.jpg.5efbe6592f4b98cbe990351801ed0aac.jpg

m_5ccd19e7ffc2d4e292d08e7a.jpg.881b690dddadad5b4d51bb259b003f37.jpg

 

"Commando sole" boots..

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On 9/5/2021 at 6:11 AM, FLYJACK said:

There are reports that they requested both front and back from Issaquah but the backs weren't needed as they secured them from Hayden.

-------

Cossey initially believed that his back chutes were taken from Issaquah, they weren't. He was told a Pioneer was left behind and he described his other chute as the custom NB6/8.

-------

In the FBI files, it does claim that Cossey owned the back chutes...

-------

Cossey claimed they were his back chutes

-------

Cossey was initially mistaken then lied to cover up his error.

-------

FBI agent Larry Carr interviewed Cossey around June of 2008 and he believed the back chutes came from Cossey's home.

 

 

There is either something missing here or it shows a complete lack of adequate communication within the FBI.

If they did not take any of Cossey's back rigs that night, then every FBI agent should have known that from the start. So any description of those rigs should have been met with 'no, we didn't take those'.

Cossey should have known that immediately or soon thereafter. I can't imagine that Emrich wouldn't have called him and told him as soon as the cops left the dz that night. But even if Emrich didn't, Cossey should have known within a day or two either by talking with Emrich or going to the dz and seeing that none of his rigs were missing.

So why would the FBI either ask for or accept any descriptions involving Cossey's rigs?

-------

Here's a thing - If the only back rigs in play were Hayden's, then it might not be possible to know what color the canopies were.

Hayden may not know. He never actually used them (jumped / opened), so he only handled and saw them in their packed condition. Unless he asked out of his own curiosity, he wouldn't know as he likely never saw the canopies.

Cossey might likely not remember. If he took care of all the student gear at the dz, and he packed reserves for several jumpers, and he took care of several pilot rigs, both ones brought to his loft and ones sent by that store where Hayden bought his, then it might be a bit much for him to remember details (color) of all the rigs he handled. And it might not be in his records. His rigger's logs would contain the same info as the cards - make, model, serial numbers, and whatever it was he did to them, i.e. standard repack or any repairs or component replacements. In that context, canopy color would be incidental.

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2 hours ago, dudeman17 said:

 

There is either something missing here or it shows a complete lack of adequate communication within the FBI.

If they did not take any of Cossey's back rigs that night, then every FBI agent should have known that from the start. So any description of those rigs should have been met with 'no, we didn't take those'.

Cossey should have known that immediately or soon thereafter. I can't imagine that Emrich wouldn't have called him and told him as soon as the cops left the dz that night. But even if Emrich didn't, Cossey should have known within a day or two either by talking with Emrich or going to the dz and seeing that none of his rigs were missing.

So why would the FBI either ask for or accept any descriptions involving Cossey's rigs?

-------

Here's a thing - If the only back rigs in play were Hayden's, then it might not be possible to know what color the canopies were.

Hayden may not know. He never actually used them (jumped / opened), so he only handled and saw them in their packed condition. Unless he asked out of his own curiosity, he wouldn't know as he likely never saw the canopies.

Cossey might likely not remember. If he took care of all the student gear at the dz, and he packed reserves for several jumpers, and he took care of several pilot rigs, both ones brought to his loft and ones sent by that store where Hayden bought his, then it might be a bit much for him to remember details (color) of all the rigs he handled. And it might not be in his records. His rigger's logs would contain the same info as the cards - make, model, serial numbers, and whatever it was he did to them, i.e. standard repack or any repairs or component replacements. In that context, canopy color would be incidental.

IMO, it was a bit of a "who's on first" fiasco.

Cossey packed them, claimed he owned them and could ID them so agents assumed he was the go to guy, nobody in the bureaucracy caught the inconsistencies.

Hayden said the FBI didn't talk to him and he never looked inside the chutes.. that is why the orange and white chute in the river near Heisson is in play.

It appears everyone accepted Cossey's initial error and ran with it. Cossey must have figured it out within days but instead of setting it straight he engaged in a series of shifting lies for years.

Emrich confirmed only the two front reserves were sent from Issaquah.

Cossey never acknowledged Hayden, ever. When he claimed they were his, he doesn't mean they were sold to Hayden. Hayden had SN 226 returned and was paid for the use of the chutes. No indication Cossey was paid and Cossey even claimed the chute left behind was returned to him. Hayden read Cossey's statements about the chutes in the newspapers and thought they were lies.

This error may have undermined the entire case.

 

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4 hours ago, snowmman said:

Amazing there's no more detail about the investigation (or non-investigation) of this break-in.

The information about the Heisson break-in first emerged in the 302s a year or two ago right? Perhaps there are further 302s to be released on the topic, at least we can hope so...

I'm almost sold on it definitely being Cooper. In the dropzone on the night of the hijacking is just a little too perfect... and it sounds exactly like the kind of items someone in his situation might steal. We have to be prepared for the possibility that it could have been a random hobo though (or worse, that we'll never know the truth). 

My biggest problem is with the reported footprints... I'm no expert on such topics, but I could buy the above being mistaken for military. I feel like they should leave a deeper imprint in the ground or something if they were true boots, but who knows how closely those footprints were actually examined.

Cooper could have had his own pair of boots too... can't forget the Corcoran boots the man from Elsinore had. Perhaps he brought them on board and put them on before jumping in the window of time he had alone to himself back there.

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45 minutes ago, Coopericane said:

The information about the Heisson break-in first emerged in the 302s a year or two ago right? Perhaps there are further 302s to be released on the topic, at least we can hope so...

I'm almost sold on it definitely being Cooper. In the dropzone on the night of the hijacking is just a little too perfect... and it sounds exactly like the kind of items someone in his situation might steal. We have to be prepared for the possibility that it could have been a random hobo though (or worse, that we'll never know the truth). 

My biggest problem is with the reported footprints... I'm no expert on such topics, but I could buy the above being mistaken for military. I feel like they should leave a deeper imprint in the ground or something if they were true boots, but who knows how closely those footprints were actually examined.

Cooper could have had his own pair of boots too... can't forget the Corcoran boots the man from Elsinore had. Perhaps he brought them on board and put them on before jumping in the window of time he had alone to himself back there.

No the information on the Heisson store is old. It was in the fbi file 10 on page 416

fbi file 10 has been around forever. I'm not eactly sure when file 10 was released.

I wonder if it was a bogus report to police. the details seem almost too cute.

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17 minutes ago, snowmman said:

No the information on the Heisson store is old. It was in the fbi file 10 on page 416

fbi file 10 has been around forever. I'm not eactly sure when file 10 was released.

I wonder if it was a bogus report to police. the details seem almost too cute.

Oh huh, I am surprised it has been around that long. I was under the impression it was relatively new information. It hasn't seemed to be discussed very often until somewhat recently, at least. Actually Jo Weber was talking about it earlier... 2014 I think? maybe she just saw something in the 302s that other people missed/ignored.

 

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4 hours ago, Coopericane said:

Oh huh, I am surprised it has been around that long. I was under the impression it was relatively new information. It hasn't seemed to be discussed very often until somewhat recently, at least. Actually Jo Weber was talking about it earlier... 2014 I think? maybe she just saw something in the 302s that other people missed/ignored.

 

I just looked at the properties on the downloaded file 10 from the fbi vault.

assuming the one that is there is the same as when it was first made available.

it says

Creator: Adobe Acrobat Pro 11.0.19

Created Thu 30 Mar 2017 05:25:24 PM UTC

523 pages

So that sounds maybe correct? released in 2017? 

I forget when they started doing the almost-monthly releases. was it around then?

But definitely it was created before this year.

Jo didn't have access to any 302's that other people didn't have access to. More likely someone told her something.

Edited by snowmman

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The key to the diatoms is that there were no winter ones, only spring diatoms..

That means the money went into and was exposed to the river in a spring between 72-79 and became buried relatively soon.

Ulis is 100% wrong, the river did not ONLY reach the money spot in 72 and 74. Spring 72 thru 79 is in play.

Chaucer is claiming his theory ticks all the boxes, it doesn't, he has Cooper no pulling next to the Columbia along the flight path in an urban area. The evidence and witnesses indicate Cooper jumped much further North well before the Columbia.

The money spot is definitely North of the circles on the map.. Eric, Shutter and myself have all analyzed images from the find and agree on this. 

There is no doubt whatsoever that the money spot was much further North based on landmarks identified from images.

I believe from statements and images that there was regular beach nourishment at the TBAR spot separate from the recorded 1974 dredge operation.

The suction dredge operation is out for two reasons,, no winter diatoms and the condition of the money..

Since the money didn't float, if it came from the River it arrived when the money spot was underwater. The money was pushed there along what would be the bottom that time. Spring is the seasonal high flow for the Columbia.

 

A TBAR theory should fit the following..

Cooper jumps 8:11-8:13 + or -

"FBI" flightpath is accurate

Money enters the Columbia in Spring 72-79 and becomes buried on TBAR before exposure to winter diatoms

Likely,,

The money arrived as packets rubber banded into a single bundle.

 

I have three good theories for TBAR but I don't think this can ever be solved.. no way to prove it.

Edited by FLYJACK

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Georger again shows he is a complete fraud and liar. Completely toxic to the Cooper case.

 

He is accusing me of getting Tom's work wrong and even lying... flying off the deep end.

I paraphrased Tom's own statement.. from the recent Expedition Unknown.

"there are diatom's that live in the winter and if it went in the water in the winter we would see those diatom's and we don't see them"  Tom Kaye

Those are Tom's words. Georger can read so it is clear he is wrong but Georger will never admit it.

Georger always needs to discredit others... never, ever trust anything this clown says.. 

Edited by FLYJACK

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Found this,,

The FBI wanted this..

A person at Northwest has a copy of a voice recorder tape printout which contains all of the communication between the skyjacker, cockpit and Northwest Control Center in a timed sequence, 

Did they have Cooper on tape?

cooperrecording.jpeg.ff59e969658fa94f9c783ae79809a716.jpeg

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As expected Georger doubles down on wrong..

He has a problem with Kaye's research because he has a contrary TBAR theory.

But, that has nothing to do with me. Attacking me for quoting Kaye is not a legitimate argument.

It is indicative of an intellectual fraud.

 

TBAR theories have the same problem that Cooper suspect's do. They can't be disproven so there is always "it is possible". But, not all suspect's or TBAR theories are equal..

 

Kaye's diatom research indicates that the money was exposed to the River in a Spring between 72-79. It did not go directly into the Columbia.

The "FBI" flightpath was accurate.

Cooper jumped about 8:12, well North of the Columbia.

 

The evidence supports those things, is it possible they are not correct? anything is possible but not very likely.

A  TBAR theory should fit those criteria. If your theory doesn't fit, it is weaker.

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Georger tripled down on stupid.. 

I quoted Tom Kaye exactly and Georger still claims it is inaccurate..

What is Georger trying to accomplish with his misinformation?

 

Here is Tom Kaye.. "we only saw them from the springtime bloom so this puts a very narrow range on when the money got wet and was subsequently buried on Tena Bar"

 

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Thought I had posted before,, but

The TBAR shoreline right at the money spot looks to have been replenished before the famous 1974 dredge operation and after Sept 71.. 

Remember, the 74 dredge operation shows South of the money spot, this is exactly at the money spot.

September 1971 on the left and Jul 1973 on the right.

Two bumps on the shoreline..

Locals said the money find spot was replenished regularly. The spot is at the very N end of the Fazio property.

 

1948300805_1971-1973copy.jpeg.03805e5b8ec0ba9603ddbaa8de9c1370.jpeg

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2 hours ago, Coopericane said:

I found this fascinating realistic portrait of Cooper someone did on Reddit today... 

 

That is very cool,,

Since he wore sunglasses most of the time the eyes would be the least accurate, would be nice to see an image like that with sunglasses.

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Flyjack,

Why do you bother spending time calling people stupid? 

This isn't about curing cancer. It's just db cooper.

Calling someone stupid over something they say about db cooper investigation, is a little much, don't you think?

I mean, in the end, none of this matters. Why so serious?

Edited by snowmman

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