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4 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

I do have Hahneman's Gov ink fingerprint from 1972,, 

There are no ridges.. there is no print just a smudge.

 

I have researched this and there are a few possible reasons...

A rare genetic condition..  unlikely.

An intentional obliteration, sanding the fingers.. possible.

Occupational, chemical or abrasive environment.. possible.

Here it is,, NORJAK smudged prints, no value..

 

 

smudgeprints.jpg

fingerprints7666.jpeg

fingerprints1664 copy.jpeg

printsnovalue.jpeg

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Quote

 

I do have Hahneman's Gov ink fingerprint from 1972,, 

There are no ridges.. there is no print just a smudge.

 

If this is a single print where they ask you to just put your thumb into the ink and hit the paper on your own, this is often caused because most people don't know the finger or thumb must be ROLLED to get a print. If you just press your finger on the paper you usually can't get a good sample. 

This is why cops roll your finger(s) when taking prints the old fashioned ink way. 

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(edited)
43 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

If this is a single print where they ask you to just put your thumb into the ink and hit the paper on your own, this is often caused because most people don't know the finger or thumb must be ROLLED to get a print. If you just press your finger on the paper you usually can't get a good sample. 

This is why cops roll your finger(s) when taking prints the old fashioned ink way. 

It is a single print on an official Gov document from Jan '72.

I have no idea who did it or if it was rolled properly.

All I know is that there are no ridges just a smudge.

It seems odd that they would require a print and not do it correctly but it is certainly possible.

I will look for other examples from the same document..

can't find any that old.. newer ones have ridges..

 

You don't have to roll the finger to get a good print, rolling just captures more area. 

The print doesn't look like too much ink or too little. Not smeared.

It looks just like another a print I found of somebody with no ridges.. 

 

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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In case people haven't figured it out, big changes are coming soon to AB of Seattle. 

I'd tell you about it now...but most of you cannot be trusted. The Peanut Gallery at Bruce Smith's Mountain News continue to pour on the vitriol on every Cooper article Bruce posts. In the end, this kind of thing is going to affect attendance and media coverage on the 2021 Cooper Convention. 

I won't have to do a thing. Nor will I interfere in any way.

It will happen on its own and this time you won't be able to blame me when people ditch you like a bad smell. All of this is a tragedy, since Adventure Books of Seattle actually wants to support that convention. But you guys are so stubborn, you would rather fail than admit we could assist you. 

So go ahead, if that is your wish. B)

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(edited)

Went through the 2012 Rataczak DVD..

A few points of note.. most well known, important ones in BOLD, (my comments in brackets)

 

recommends Tosaw’s book as most accurate crew gave input

all boarded aft stairway

not Christiansen

727-100 93 seats total

Flo given paper,, was working coach section

Tina working galley

rolling down runway when got note and call from Tina

told Flo to stay in cockpit paper and pen take notes

HJ told Tina to sit down next to him

had briefcase and paper bag

showed Tina bomb

eight sticks battery wire starter

Tina cool as a cucumber

go to Mex city gear down flaps down cabin lights out stat no one aft first class and curtain drawn

Cooper never came to cockpit

several times cooper became upset and threatened to touch the wires (Cooper was more "aggressive" than generally believed)

crew demanded control, no outside intervention (FBI)

HJ wanted 4 parachutes

gave 5 o' clock deadline 

wanted $200,000 in US currency in a knapsack (He confirmed "US" currency, this is significant IMO)

told Tina have money waiting for chutes from McChord only 20 miles away

Later HJ asked for flaps 15 deg.. (Confirmed Cooper said 15 degrees but later)

pass sign remain in seats 

HJ wanted meals for crew

Tina bring money first,, money bag had string. (string?)

He threatened to blow up plane when money not in knapsack (Ouch, hadn't heard that)

Tina brought parachutes in..

Flo and Alice told to leave with Tina pilots planned escape.. didn't go right away

can’t takeoff with stairs down..  727 needs to rotate for takeoff  (assume he means locked down)

HJ agreed

Refuelling stopped, thought they were intervening,, fuel truck running out of fuel, demanded another truck, fuelling stopped again, RAT swore at them. Valve froze up, never heard of that, RAT knows it was bogus. (Rataczak believed the fuelling issues were a ruse, I agree)

Can’t make Mexico.

Considered bailing out escape when Tina only one left,, decided not to leave Tina.

Rataczak demanded Flo and Alice leave airplane. (Flo later apologized for not leaving when ordered)

727 stairs duel purpose, boarding and stability on runway.

Told from Boeing,, stairs come down nose lowers 3-5 deg… it did

Bill flew plane out of Seattle.

lifted the landing gear by mistake then lowered again Cooper didn't notice

30 deg at 10000 ft getting ice buildup center post windscreen

Tina came to cockpit.

Rataczak wanted rope for Tina when she opened the stairs

Get knife cut shroud line

Rataczak told Cooper how to open door and lower stairs. (Thought it was Tina, maybe both)

HJ can’t get stairs down

 

Slowed down plane

stair light came on

rate of climb pressure..  felt bump in ears (Bingo)

Rataczak on horn to air traffic control "our friend just took leave of us” “mark it” (That comm had to be logged and used in the DZ analysis)

Soderlind genius figured out LZ

Rataczak wanted to fly over the Pacific..  hoping Cooper would jump there

Refuelling set up for Reno.

Rataczak hand flying plane lowered 3-5 deg when stairs came down (not auto pilot)

Scott took over and landed Reno

Rataczak, you don’t want to see my FP it looks like connect the dots.

stairs only dropped about 3 feet inflight

sparks when landing in Reno

had dogs ready in Reno for search

HJ got notes and matches back

matches said “how to get a high school diploma” (Second pack of matches other than SkyChef)

dogs ate the crew meals on plane

parachute was a 28 ft 

Tina doesn’t like to talk about the case except with RAT..

thinks HJ landed in something like blackberry bushes (brambles) and didn’t survive

Tina carrying book in famous pic,, Mary Queen of Scotts not Bible

Hasn’t talked to Flo or Alice since.

Hasn’t talked to Anderson

 

crew stories..

Tina, Tosaw called to say,,  she was Carmelite nun in Convent in Eugene Oregon..

1981 - 1993 Tina in convent

 

Questions..

 

Ransom money found,, tumbled down river

money in paper wrapper (probably got that from Himmelsbach, he was in close contact)

FBI  kept 13-14 bills

HJ offered ransom money Tina packets of $20 bills… (Not exactly, actually Tina asked for money and took it)

 

Parachutes.

1 opened cut shroud lines and tied money around waste

1 dummy chute

ticket.. name

Dan Cooper

placard found,,, 

found two bodies in search

parachute canopy found.. Himms not right one

 

Suspects..

 

thinks FBI sent dummy chute on purpose (sabotage)

collected drink glass (IMO, Cooper was never concerned with prints only hand written notes)

HJ never left seat (He did but very briefly though)

Paul Soderlinds trapezoid LZ…  

Himmelsbach book also recommend

never left cockpit, never saw Cooper

HJ error, let passengers go before Tina got everything

Edited by FLYJACK

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(edited)
On 7/15/2021 at 7:05 AM, FLYJACK said:

The tie particle matrix resembles..

 

Best..

Dentistry,,  prosthetics

Electronics industry

 

Weaker..

Medical 

 

Maybe it is all three, maybe none.

Forgot to add....  Pyrotechnics...

Military stuff - flares and fireworks,, one thing that looked good was a hand held sparkler... 

 

The tie was about 6 years old so the particles likely came from many environments..

 

One problem with CRT screens is the absence of Europium..

Edited by FLYJACK

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(edited)

Almost all of those things you listed have been published previously by three sources. 

The Geoff Gray book.
The interview with Rataczak done by Skipp Porteous.
The article from the 1996 San Francisco Examiner. (25th anniversary interview with Rataczak)

As far as Rataczak's opinion on KC's guilt, or lack of it, he never saw the hijacker. And both he and the curator of NWA's museum in Minneapolis (Bruce Kitt) were never hot on the idea that an employee of the airline could have been the guy. It was a disturbing thought to both of them. It would be a major embarrassment to the airline, and the history of the airline itself. Kitt particularly did not like the idea at all. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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(edited)

MINOR NEWS: AB of Seattle is MOVING. Yes, we are leaving Auburn the first week of September and will be no longer in the Puget Sound area. After that time, we will be modifying the AB website. Some of this has already been done. A couple of official announcements:

  • We have gone through our paper files and destroyed all but the most critical ones regarding our investigation into Kenny Christiansen as possibly being DB Cooper. That investigation is now officially closed, although I will answer any future questions that come in through the email. I couldn't stop them anyway. 
  • AB will no longer associate itself with any public events having to do with the DB Cooper case, either as a participant, or to organize such events on our own. 
  • AB WILL associate itself with SUFON, (Seattle UFO Network) as a reporter of news in that organization, as well as organizing public events having to do with SUFON. We will have a particular focus on possible books or Kindle publications done by SUFON members, if they wish. For Kindle, we will assist them in setting up their account at Amazon and help them get their Kindle books onsite without charge. 
  • We will shift our focus on books solely to UFO/UAB, and paranormal subjects, and to straight science fiction. 
  • We will do a quarterly, illustrated newsletter for SUFON, beginning shortly after the month of September. 
  • Gayla Prociv has been removed from the Staff Page at AB, since she is no longer running the company. I took over that job about 18 months ago. 
  • The Everything DB Cooper page at Quora dot com has been deleted, although the WordPress will stay in place, albeit frozen from future articles. My apologies to the 2,000 followers we had at the EBDC site, but it seemed pointless to continue with no input from known Cooper investigators or the fans who hang out at DZ or the Cooper Forum. One of you should have volunteered to take over the site, because all new postings went out by email to all 2,000 followers of the site. It was a good market. 
  • The YouTube videos will remain. 
  • We are rescinding our offers to assist in the upcoming Cooper Con. 
  • I can't tell you our new location yet, but it is not in Western Washington. 

Frankly speaking, it was the ongoing negativity in Cooperland that made this decision easy. In other words, we found better friends than many of the people who inhabit the world of Cooper. Your jealousy over our continuing book sales, (despite your best efforts to trash people on the internet) your engaging in hatred and exclusion...our bet is that after the 50th anniversary has passed, many of you will find yourselves with public support that is little to none. We do not want to hang around long enough to see it. Except for answering questions privately, or posting occasionally at Dropzone for fun, we are OUT of the Cooper business. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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9 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Went through the 2012 Rataczak DVD..

A few points of note.. most well known, important ones in BOLD, (my comments in brackets)

 

recommends Tosaw’s book as most accurate crew gave input

all boarded aft stairway

not Christiansen

727-100 93 seats total

Flo given paper,, was working coach section

Tina working galley

rolling down runway when got note and call from Tina

told Flo to stay in cockpit paper and pen take notes

HJ told Tina to sit down next to him

had briefcase and paper bag

showed Tina bomb

eight sticks battery wire starter

Tina cool as a cucumber

go to Mex city gear down flaps down cabin lights out stat no one aft first class and curtain drawn

Cooper never came to cockpit

several times cooper became upset and threatened to touch the wires (Cooper was more "aggressive" than generally believed)

crew demanded control, no outside intervention (FBI)

HJ wanted 4 parachutes

gave 5 o' clock deadline 

wanted $200,000 in US currency in a knapsack (He confirmed "US" currency, this is significant IMO)

told Tina have money waiting for chutes from McChord only 20 miles away

Later HJ asked for flaps 15 deg.. (Confirmed Cooper said 15 degrees but later)

pass sign remain in seats 

HJ wanted meals for crew

Tina bring money first,, money bag had string. (string?)

He threatened to blow up plane when money not in knapsack (Ouch, hadn't heard that)

Tina brought parachutes in..

Flo and Alice told to leave with Tina pilots planned escape.. didn't go right away

can’t takeoff with stairs down..  727 needs to rotate for takeoff  (assume he means locked down)

HJ agreed

Refuelling stopped, thought they were intervening,, fuel truck running out of fuel, demanded another truck, fuelling stopped again, RAT swore at them. Valve froze up, never heard of that, RAT knows it was bogus. (Rataczak believed the fuelling issues were a ruse, I agree)

Can’t make Mexico.

Considered bailing out escape when Tina only one left,, decided not to leave Tina.

Rataczak demanded Flo and Alice leave airplane. (Flo later apologized for not leaving when ordered)

727 stairs duel purpose, boarding and stability on runway.

Told from Boeing,, stairs come down nose lowers 3-5 deg… it did

Bill flew plane out of Seattle.

lifted the landing gear by mistake then lowered again Cooper didn't notice

30 deg at 10000 ft getting ice buildup center post windscreen

Tina came to cockpit.

Rataczak wanted rope for Tina when she opened the stairs

Get knife cut shroud line

Rataczak told Cooper how to open door and lower stairs. (Thought it was Tina, maybe both)

HJ can’t get stairs down

 

Slowed down plane

stair light came on

rate of climb pressure..  felt bump in ears (Bingo)

Rataczak on horn to air traffic control "our friend just took leave of us” “mark it” (That comm had to be logged and used in the DZ analysis)

Soderlind genius figured out LZ

Rataczak wanted to fly over the Pacific..  hoping Cooper would jump there

Refuelling set up for Reno.

Rataczak hand flying plane lowered 3-5 deg when stairs came down (not auto pilot)

Scott took over and landed Reno

Rataczak, you don’t want to see my FP it looks like connect the dots.

stairs only dropped about 3 feet inflight

sparks when landing in Reno

had dogs ready in Reno for search

HJ got notes and matches back

matches said “how to get a high school diploma” (Second pack of matches other than SkyChef)

dogs ate the crew meals on plane

parachute was a 28 ft 

Tina doesn’t like to talk about the case except with RAT..

thinks HJ landed in something like blackberry bushes (brambles) and didn’t survive

Tina carrying book in famous pic,, Mary Queen of Scotts not Bible

Hasn’t talked to Flo or Alice since.

Hasn’t talked to Anderson

 

crew stories..

Tina, Tosaw called to say,,  she was Carmelite nun in Convent in Eugene Oregon..

1981 - 1993 Tina in convent

 

Questions..

 

Ransom money found,, tumbled down river

money in paper wrapper (probably got that from Himmelsbach, he was in close contact)

FBI  kept 13-14 bills

HJ offered ransom money Tina packets of $20 bills… (Not exactly, actually Tina asked for money and took it)

 

Parachutes.

1 opened cut shroud lines and tied money around waste

1 dummy chute

ticket.. name

Dan Cooper

placard found,,, 

found two bodies in search

parachute canopy found.. Himms not right one

 

Suspects..

 

thinks FBI sent dummy chute on purpose (sabotage)

collected drink glass (IMO, Cooper was never concerned with prints only hand written notes)

HJ never left seat (He did but very briefly though)

Paul Soderlinds trapezoid LZ…  

Himmelsbach book also recommend

never left cockpit, never saw Cooper

HJ error, let passengers go before Tina got everything

Great stuff, I never heard about the bodies found during the search before - were they ever identified? 

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(edited)
3 hours ago, Coopericane said:

Great stuff, I never heard about the bodies found during the search before - were they ever identified? 

Yes. At least one of them was ID'd as a missing person, but was in no way a Cooper suspect. I have most of my books and other files packed away for the upcoming move...but I think a reference is made in the Geoff Gray book about this. 

Portland State University's James Bezerra does a dissertation on the DB Cooper case. It is the type of writing I call 'stylized'. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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Latest from Bruce Smith's Mountain News Peanut Gallery:

Quote

"Johnnie Greene says:    
July 19, 2021 at 5:20 pm    

Hip-hop hooray. Praise the Lord. Rejoice. Praise Allah. The devil is leaving. He has been evicted. Moving far away. Getting out of the business. Self-proclaimed. He is outs here, man! LOL."

Have no illusions. 'Johnnie Greene' is actually the person known as 'Georger' over at the Cooper Forum. AKA...former university educator Jerry W...AKA guy who was banned from Dropzone for personal attacks on other members here...AKA same guy who tried calling me up at my house at midnight AFTER he was banned. Probably to rant and vent, I suppose. 

This is a person who allegedly holds an advanced degree and is retired from teaching at a university? And who comes on to people as some legit expert in the Cooper case? You must be kidding. He's just a kid who was refused a cookie from the jar by his mother, and threw himself onto the floor in a fit of pique. I wouldn't let him near a dog obedience school...let alone with actual students. Get real. 

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(edited)

Georger once again gets it wrong..

Cooper's tie is Dacron Polyester not nylon... no they are not the same.

tiedacron.jpeg.c3fe72b5afeb5839f35156b038e0b86f.jpeg

 

and yes, Hahneman was diagnosed with terminal cancer in 1971, I have already examined the tie particles in relation to a cancer patient.

 

Some of the particles may have been introduced by the FBI after they got possession.

Something I noticed,, a permanent mark Q40 PRB... the evidence sticker on the tie is Q40 FJW

The evidence tag for the tie was Q40,, I assume the first permanent mark was done for the initial testing and the second was the later DNA testing.

However, the yellow permanent "ink" looks partially degraded...  so what particles were in that "ink"??

Did the dust contaminate other areas of the tie sitting in some cabinet for 40 years.. and what testing did the FBI do...

307099438_a02Tiebackcopy.jpg.f9728bf7455e7d686dfaefd788862558.jpg

 

club moss was used for latex gloves.

latextie.jpg.1dca909e533b3ae83690f8adebdfda0f.jpg

 

Found a random image of a NASA employee... tie and clip not so rare.

tiecliplocation.jpg.ecda0431c9d6ab89e26340799259c523.jpg

Edited by FLYJACK

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(edited)

Bruce Smith from the Mountain News says today:

Quote

'Johnny Green, Marla, and Gypsy23 are a royal pain in the ass at the MN for all the trash talking they do about RMB. One of these days I'm gonna have to dig through my WordPress files and re-learn how to ban people...'

Both Bruce and I have had WordPress going for a number of years. Bruce is playing dumb here. It is the easiest thing in the world to remove comments and ban users from your WordPress. You hit My Sites in the upper left corner. You hit Comments. You are handed a list of every comment ever made to your blog. You pick any one you want and hit User Info. All the options are there, including their IP address, the email they used to make the comment whether a phony address or not, and the Ban User button. A second-grader could figure it out. Bango Wango, you are done. 

I don't buy into baloney. This is not an Oscar Meyer food factory, folks. If you really want to know who is trashing Bruce's otherwise-pretty-good column on the Cooper case, just make the IP addresses public at the DB Cooper Forum. Then Shutter can easily match them up to known posters at the forum. He and Bruce could have done this anytime they wanted. Greg believes that 'Johnnie Greene' is actually Georger, and the reason is because he sent me a report (after some research) showing that the same insults were sometimes used at the Cooper Forum...BY Georger. To tell you the truth, it never occurred to me that it might actually be Galen Cook, a lawyer from Spokane, WA. I suppose that is possible. But in that case, Bruce would have known that long ago. He and Galen are big buddies. Everyone knows that. So I guess it doesn't really matter that much. It's a pile of garbage no matter how you look at it, and gets active support. 

I am amazed by Shutter coming after me (again) regarding the phone call made (not to Connie's messages, Shutter) to City Hall's main public phone in Auburn the day prior to my first talk at the Auburn Ave Theater on Kenny Christiansen. He keeps speculating and putting falsehoods out about it. He never goes to the source (me) to ask what actually happened. And I have gone over that twice already this year. Get it together, Shutter....and stop speculating. You don't know what you are talking about. 

What happened was that only hours after I posted the time and location of the talk here at DZ, someone called up City Hall, and said that if this event were held, that 'people would get hurt'. That was the full extent of the threat. Then Connie is told. Then Connie confronts me about it. She is pissed off. Families with kids are involved here, she says. No one is happy. Do I want to cancel, she asks. No, I say. The Planning Committee meets and a couple of them ask me if I know who might have made such a lousy phone call. Since I hadn't been involved in Cooper for all that long, I tell them I am not sure, but the only guy I know locally is named Bruce Smith, but I have not met him. No one figured it would be someone from not only another area code, but another state. So...one cop is assigned to the theater (son of the former owners of the theater) and everything goes just fine. He has Bruce's picture. If Bruce shows up, the cop will ask if he made the call. If Bruce says no, then he can go in like everybody else. He never showed up, so it was a non-factor. 

A day or two later, I am told the area code of the caller, but not the full number, and that they think it is a pay phone. That is ALL they would tell me. But at that time, I didn't know anyone in that area code who was heavily involved in the Cooper case. Later, I found out who was but decided to keep that quiet. Didn't think it would do any good to start pointing fingers, especially since the call came from a pay phone, allegedly. It was a nasty trick indeed, but it was also what...more than ten years ago...so there is no point in harping on it further. But the phone call proves one thing....my articles at WordPress regarding hate and discord within Cooperland were right on the money, and the continuing trash posted to Mountain News means that some of you folks will never stop doing that sort of thing. 

And this is the main reason why I (mostly) got out of the Cooper business. You guys spin your wheels. You attack each other. You steal other peoples' book(s). Or you support the idea. You often support each other's trashy behavior, and then try to blame that on me. Maybe you should quit worrying about me, and tighten up your own stuff for the upcoming convention. Hundreds of shit comments on articles promoting that same convention, or on articles on the Cooper case, are NOT going to encourage people to drop $21.50 on a ticket to see you folks down in Vancouver this November. You will end up in a 300+ seat venue looking out at over 200 empty seats. Better wake up and smell the coffee, and get it together in a professional manner. You are coming on to the public like angry toddlers at best. 

You should also consider EU's expenditures and efforts to do the convention in the first place. And the sponsors involved in that event. You guys don't DESERVE to have such a thing laid out for you, if you can't stop acting like children. I already told you I hope you succeed, although I will have nothing to do with this event. I will also NOT stand in the way of it. The better you do in November, the more books we sell. It's a selfish motivation, yes. But it is also reality. And for some reason, book sales are way up this year. This is the first time we have done TWO commercial sales in the same month for Into The Blast. That is two cases, or 104 copies out commercially since July 1. This doesn't count individual sales of the book from other sources or book jobbers, or copies of other titles we sell. Cheap attacks do not affect book sales, my friends. We are a WHOLESALE US Trade Publisher. You can't even buy directly from us. Amazon is the only retail source, and that accounts for a miniscule percentage of sales. The remainder come through Ingram, and you need access to the Ingram wholesale catalog to buy there. Mostly you have to be a bookstore, a retailer, or a wholesale book jobber to do that. All titles we sell are available there at the trade rate worldwide, which is 50% off the price printed on the cover. 

Some of these people over at Mountain News tell SO many lies about AB of Seattle, or Gayla, or myself, or just about anyone I have mentioned publicly....that you need a scorecard to keep track of those lies. I finally said enough, and that's why...at least in the real world...I will have nothing to do with any further Cooper activities or events. I froze doing more articles on Cooper for WordPress. I deleted the Everything DB Cooper space at Quora, and took down just about every Cooper reference at the main AB of Seattle website. I have moved ON, folks. Some posts to DZ, okay. Answering questions about KC or the case in general that come in through our email...sure. I will do that. But that is the extent of my future participation in all of this. As I said before back there, we found new friends. Nicer friends. Ones who don't tell lies and attack each other like sharks in a feeding frenzy. 

On August 21st, I will be moving from the Puget Sound area for good anyway. Where we are going is none of your business, but it's better than the neighborhood we live in now. Used to be nice. Started going downhill after THIS HAPPENED in 2013, and has gotten worse ever since. My house is just up the street. I could hear the shooting. After that, I became sort of disillusioned with the neighborhood. B) Later, I gave that incident a name. I called it Shootout at the OK Corral. The strip mall where this happened has been practically abandoned ever since. Fourteen or so storefronts, and only one or two of them still open. 

Get your act together, my friends. November is coming sooner than you think. I am basically out of the Cooper biz anyway. A dozen years in the Vortex was more than enough for me. I have moved on to wondering about the aliens and those pesky UFO's the Navy admits might actually be real. You never know...

alienarticle3.jpg.ded3787ad88dcf19aede55cd2a65e1d1.jpg

Edited by RobertMBlevins
Adjusted cartoon to fit

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(edited)

CKRET, Larry Carr made some conflicting statements here on DZ about the chutes..

 

D B Cooper 

Unsolved Skyjacking 
in Skydiving History & Trivia


November 27, 2007  ·  Report reply



 

Cooper never asked for any type of denomination.  

the reserve chute he jumped with was for classroom demo, it was not a functioning chute (Cossey did not provide the chute, he discovered the mistake the next day. The chute was provided by someone else at Sky Sports)  

The backback Cooper jumped with was an NB6 manufactured in 1959.  

The money was not found in a bag, the bundles were stuck together by the muck and time.  

Jo, you have my number.

CARR states the date for the chute Cooper jumped with was 1959..  Cossey claimed he gave the FBI the chute records but the FBI claimed they don't have them. Where does Carr get 1959? The opened reserve was 1959.

 

 

Ckret, what type of rig was the other backpack supplied to Cooper that night?
 

December 17, 2007
26' canopy, made by Steinthal, model 60-9707. 

Thanks for the clarification on the D rings.

60-9707 was reported as the SN on the card in the pocket of the back chute left in the plane. It does not match the chute returned to Hayden.

 


D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking
in  Skydiving History & Trivia
December 17, 2007  ·  Report reply

Cossey actually packed all four chutes, the two back pack chutes were sold or given to the individual who sent them in the cab to Boeing field. Cossey also packed the reserve chutes, but they were provided not by Cossey but the owner of Issaquah Sky Sports. Cossey discovered the mistake later on.


Here, Carr admits Hayden sent in two back chutes.



DB Cooper
in Skydiving History & Trivia June 14, 2008 · Report reply

I want to make sure everyone understands that the instruction sheet offered to Cooper may or may not have come from Cossey.

I think it was a bit odd to offer instructions to Cooper when he made no request for them. And from what we now know the NB6 was altered to the point that even an experienced skydiver may have had difficulty with it. From this, I think that maybe Cossey knew this and wanted to warn anyone who my try to use it.

Total guess on my part, but the two backpacks came from Cossey, from Cossey's house. i don't think he had a manufactures instruction sheet laying around that he sent with them.


Now, Carr thinks the back chutes came from Cossey's home with an instruction sheet. It doesn't seem plausible that Cossey would sell two bailout rigs with one being too difficult to open..  Cooper was presented an instruction sheet which he rejected. That was either a generic or it came from Cossey,, if it came from Cossey then Cooper didn't use Haydens' chute. Here is the contradiction, Hayden sent in two back chutes one was returned which did not match the SN of the one left on the plane. The conflicting SN's support the idea that Cooper jumped with another chute, perhaps Cossey's. This is still unresolved.



• DB Cooper
in Skydiving History & Trivia June 13, 2008 · Report reply

happythoughts,
You may have to change your name, "think positive dude, like count backwards or something." (what movie?).

Its one thing for me to read through the case file and develop an opinion about what happened the night Cooper jumped. I then can express my opinion, "Cooper bounced....." and we have several hundred posts about how stupid that opinion may or may not be. What it does is challenge me to rethink and develop something more than an opinion. Something that becomes a sound investigative foundation that can be backed, if not by evidence, solid fact.

Your right, the small bits and pieces we have been able to eek out won't do much in solving the case, yet. But soon a piece may shake out that fits but only because we have vetted out these small pieces.

Cooper jumped with a chute that had obviously been modified for one individual, it's owner. One more thing that just hit me, Cooper

Cooper jumped with a chute that had obviously been modified for one individual, it's owner. One more thing that just hit me, Cooper was given an instruction sheet on the chutes, wonder if it was Cossey trying to tell Cooper, "there's something you should know about one of these chutes...."

Regardless, all the pieces matter and only by running them into the ground (as painful as it is) can we be sure we are getting it right. 


How does Cossey send an instruction sheet to Cooper if both chutes sent to the plane came from Hayden?


DB Cooper
in  Skydiving History & Trivia
June 12, 2008  ·  Report reply

Sluggo,  

The NB6 and the Pioneer were Cossey's chutes, he had them at his house, they weren't at Seattle Skysports. I asked Cossey why he packed a 28 foot canopy in the NB6 and he just shrugged. Kind of like, "it was my chute, I did it because I can." I like that guy, I could have talked to him all day but he grew tired of me in about an hour.

 

Again, conflict, both chutes at Cossey's house, Carr is all over the place.


• DB Cooper
in Skydiving History & Trivia June 13, 2008 · Report reply

Question about the NB6, now that we have an NB6 expert here. When I talked with Cossey he explained how he configured the chute but did so as if I knew what he was talking about. (you ever talk to someone with so much expertise they don't have the time or desire to take it down a notch)

He talked about a two phase pull because of where he placed the handle. (it would have been under the right armpit) He said Cooper would have had to pull fully out and then up to deploy the chute. If he only pulled the handle out the chute would not have delopyed.

Can someone tell me if this is normal? Why would there have been a two directional pull?


Again, would Cossey sell a modified bailout rig to a non jumper that was so heavily modified to be dangerous to use? no way.




Finally, this isn't resolved by any means but the path of least resistance given all the info suggests that Cooper didn't jump with one of Hayden's chutes and that means Cossey must have sent in his chute. They sent one of Hayden's and Cossey's to the plane. Hayden got back the chute he sent in that wasn't sent to the plane (SN mismatch). Still, there may be another explanation but something doesn't add up and it doesn't help that Cossey's statements are unreliable..

 

but you can't have it both ways,, Cooper using the back chute sent in by Hayden and Cooper jumping with a modified chute with a special instruction sheet from Cossey.

If the chute was too difficult to use it couldn't have been Hayden's.. We don't know that it was too difficult to use other than Cossey's (unreliable) statements but if it was it could only have come directly from Cossey.


 



 

Edited by FLYJACK

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(edited)

Quote, in part:

Quote

"How does Cossey send an instruction sheet to Cooper if both chutes sent to the plane came from Hayden?"

Answer: He doesn't.

Basic fact: Cossey was NOT at Sky Sports on the evening of the hijacking. He was at his home in Woodinville. The reserve chutes were handed out by Linn Emerick at Sky Sports, not Cossey. And it makes sense anyway that an instruction sheet like that would come...not from Cossey's home...but the local dropzone. The place where you LEARN TO SKYDIVEB)

The backpacks, of course...came from Kent, WA by cab...sent by Norman Hayden. This was done under a rental arrangement with NWA, according to Hayden. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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58 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

This sounds like general chute instructions, not a specific hard to open chute.

Cossey's "hard to open" story is likely BS..

chuteinstructions.jpeg.3160961dd0b2dc60781a46521d7c7496.jpeg

Hayden told me once that he didn't 'hate' Earl Cossey, but that sometimes he got a bit ticked off at him when he (Hayden) would read some untrue statement appearing in the local papers...furnished by Cossey. 

When I uploaded my video that included some comments and potential evidence I thought was important about Cossey's murder, a relative of his said I should basically get off that and mind my own business. In a comment to the video. I replied that HE and HIS FAMILY should be pressuring the cops to find out who killed him. And here we are...what?...eight years later and they haven't a clue who did it? And you never see any updates in the media about it. Someone just beats the poor guy to death in his own garage, and no one cares?

Let me tell you something I know. Cossey had a sign out front of his house saying the home had an alarm. But a few people knew that Cossey had stopped his subscription to the alarm company maybe two or three months prior to his murder. Yet someone felt confident enough to go into the home anyway, and hide out in the garage. Some items in the home were also missing. My question would be....WHO knew the alarm had been disabled? And WHO would enter a home with a potential silent alarm and take his time looking through the house for whatever he was looking for? I sent a bunch of this stuff to the cops, as well as some burglary reports that happened within a two block radius in the month prior to his killing. Cops totally blew me off. But then the King County Sheriffs' Dept, according to a KOMO-TV report, has been cited as being very poor at solving Major Cases. This report was obtained from the Dept of Justice in Seattle, and reported on by KOMO. No surprise there. KCSO are run by idiots, and staffed by amateurs, at least in the Major Cases department. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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If Shutter reads this over at the Cooper Forum, I have a message for you my friend. If you are going to call incidents in my life 'wild stories,' why don't you have the courtesy to do your research before you call people liars. 

You are speaking of the time I was washed out into the Pacific Ocean for a few days near Ozette Island, WA. The article I created about all that is HERE. 

It's been a while, but if you use the article as a printed reference....

And CALL UP the Ozette Ranger Station, (They are at Lake Ozette) and you give them enough details, they might remember it. The rangers did a big damn search for my stuff on a two mile stretch of beach. Only thing they found was a Tupperware box with my wallet and keys, (returned) and a small 22 pistol. (confiscated) It was tied to the top of the pack, and floated in on the tide to the beach. 

Just because you are too lazy to check out a story...doesn't mean it isn't true. Sounds like a personal issue to me. Easy for you to sit there at the Cooper Forum and talk trash, knowing I can't respond, or defend myself in person. 

But you do that kind of thing a lot, don't you? 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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1 hour ago, Andrade1812 said:

Fly,

Can you please find the FBI document EU is referring to about the parachute being modified? Thank you.

It isn't in there, it came from Carr's interview with Cossey.. typical Cossey BS... CARR/Eric are embellishing it to support the no pull narrative.

In fact, the initial interview with Cossey about the chutes don't mention the handle at all.

Cosseyinterview1126.jpeg.ba5753716df41800597abcab27180ded.jpeg

Cossey said it would work fine..

Cosseychuteworkfine.jpeg.a11ce3efcf1763d1717f8f2baba1b754.jpeg

 

Cossey, could he have made it,, oh yeah... (he lied about getting the chute back left on the plane)

seatimesoct1976.jpeg.f8c45420407aacfdb6045bdeefcfd591.jpeg

 

I am working on an interesting timeline for the chutes.. Cooper's chute magically changed the colour of the container and harness..

but,

He mentioned the handle in this video..

Cossey explains ripcord start 31:59

NB6.. ripcord very flat mixed in with the harness, he probably couldn’t even find the ripcord

 

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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3 hours ago, Andrade1812 said:

Fly,

Can you please find the FBI document EU is referring to about the parachute being modified? Thank you.

 

1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

typical Cossey BS..

Maybe but not necessarily. Changing or moving a ripcord handle isn't that unusual. If indeed Cossey used that rig for putting out students and wanted to get the handle further from their potential grasp, that would make sense. The BS part is that it would make the rig 'too difficult to use'. As you and I have both said, if that was the case, he would never give it to a pilot (such as Hayden). It would be too easy to change it back.

Also, as I said 'over there', if indeed that handle was mounted 'outboard', that could be the very reason that Cooper chose that rig. It would better get the handle out from under things he may have tied to his chest.

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3 hours ago, dudeman17 said:

 

Maybe but not necessarily. Changing or moving a ripcord handle isn't that unusual. If indeed Cossey used that rig for putting out students and wanted to get the handle further from their potential grasp, that would make sense. The BS part is that it would make the rig 'too difficult to use'. As you and I have both said, if that was the case, he would never give it to a pilot (such as Hayden). It would be too easy to change it back.

Also, as I said 'over there', if indeed that handle was mounted 'outboard', that could be the very reason that Cooper chose that rig. It would better get the handle out from under things he may have tied to his chest.

Cossey has a history of let's say extreme embellishments....

I agree that he likely modified his chute, but selling/packing a modified "too difficult to use" chute to Hayden, no way. Cossey must have told Carr one of his embellishments..

There are two problems here.. 

Cossey never mentioned the modification being too difficult until Carr interviewed him. Initially, he claimed the opposite. Cossey, could he have made it,, "oh yeah..."

Now, Carr/Ulis are running with this nonsense to support a no pull theory... classic

Also, the missing chute Cooper used was initially described by the FBI as an Olive Drab container with a Tan cotton harness. Then during Cossey's first interview on Nov 26, he stated it was a Sage Green container with a Sage Green nylon harness based on being told that the Pioneer was left behind. Did Cossey get it right or the FBI??

So, how did that go so wrong.. the other back chute description was accurate.

Perhaps the mismatched packing cards fit in here..

Cossey packed those chutes six months prior to NORJAK and he failed to provide any records to the FBI..

He was going by recall.. What if he misremembered the Hayden chutes from six months prior. 

Hayden claimed they were identical. Cossey's chute is not.

He has nothing to go by but a six month old memory. Cossey and Hayden never met.

Everything from Cossey needs to be corroborated. Hard to sort out now.

Every chute found was rejected by Cossey based on his identification of Cooper's chute. One that didn't match the FBI's initial description. What if Cossey was making comparisons to the wrong chute.

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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53 minutes ago, Andrade1812 said:

Eric U is now a no-pull guy?

No-pull was Carr's belief based on the "hard to pull" nonsense from Cossey and assumptions about the rejected chute instructions, Eric dropped Sheridan and is now quoting Carr's "hard to pull" narrative from an inside source (probably Carr).. that implies Eric will be a no pull guy,, though he hasn't stated it yet that is where it looks like he is going. 

Eric plants elements for his narratives in advance... it looks like he is planting a new narrative for a suspect from the NE after dropping Sheridan as a suspect. Prepping the ground with potential "no pull" evidence is how Eric rolls.. 

Ask him where he is on a no pull...

 

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