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DB Cooper

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(edited)
36 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Seems really odd doesn't it... I have an answer for it but just not ready to make it public.

Well the only answer that makes sense is if everyone was blind, deaf, and dumb. Hahneman hijacked that jet about six months after Cooper. Some people might say he was just a copycat. And he pled guilty and still got life. If he admits to Cooper, maybe he gets less time. When he gets back from Honduras, you have to think the first thing the FBI would wonder is if he WAS Cooper. And six months after the Cooper hijacking is pretty recent. It would be an easy matter to just show his picture to the witnesses while their memories were still fresh. Or...one of the witnesses might recognize him from TV or the papers and just call the FBI...hey that guy is Cooper. Etc. 

Yet you want to convince people that a guy can do the exact same hijacking out the airstairs just six months after Cooper, and somehow no one figures it out...even though Hahneman sits in Atlanta Federal prison for over ten years. 

It's a stretch...a big one. It also ignores the fact that the FBI spent a boatload of money from the budgets to continue investigating the Cooper case. For even longer than Hahneman was in jail. Why would they do that when linking Hahneman to the Cooper case should have been ridiculously easy, if he were indeed DB Cooper? 

If you are going to claim it was all a cover-up, then you will have to explain why the FBI would keep wasting their time and effort sending agents all over America to chase Cooper. If there was a cover-up, they would not have done that. Or at least they would have scaled back the investigation and stopped spending so much money. You can't have it both ways, and during the ten years Hahneman was in Atlanta Federal...well, that's a long time to run up a budget and do a cover up, even for the Feds. It just isn't believable they would do that. No one is worth that much, to go to those lengths. Frankly, I think someone...if they were trying to hide something really big...would simply have killed him off. They wouldn't keep sending out agents on phony errands and running up thousands of files on Cooper for more than a decade. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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Over at the DB Cooper Forum, Unsurelock theorizes that Frank Abagnale, Jr (Catch Me If You Can guy) might have been Cooper. 

Sorry, Unsurelock. Pretty doubtful. Abagnale was only 23 years old at the time of the Cooper hijacking. He was born in April 1948. Interesting thought, though. 

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8 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Well the only answer that makes sense is if everyone was blind, deaf, and dumb. Hahneman hijacked that jet about six months after Cooper. Some people might say he was just a copycat. And he pled guilty and still got life. If he admits to Cooper, maybe he gets less time. When he gets back from Honduras, you have to think the first thing the FBI would wonder is if he WAS Cooper. And six months after the Cooper hijacking is pretty recent. It would be an easy matter to just show his picture to the witnesses while their memories were still fresh. Or...one of the witnesses might recognize him from TV or the papers and just call the FBI...hey that guy is Cooper. Etc. 

Yet you want to convince people that a guy can do the exact same hijacking out the airstairs just six months after Cooper, and somehow no one figures it out...even though Hahneman sits in Atlanta Federal prison for over ten years. 

It's a stretch...a big one. It also ignores the fact that the FBI spent a boatload of money from the budgets to continue investigating the Cooper case. For even longer than Hahneman was in jail. Why would they do that when linking Hahneman to the Cooper case should have been ridiculously easy, if he were indeed DB Cooper? 

If you are going to claim it was all a cover-up, then you will have to explain why the FBI would keep wasting their time and effort sending agents all over America to chase Cooper. If there was a cover-up, they would not have done that. Or at least they would have scaled back the investigation and stopped spending so much money. You can't have it both ways, and during the ten years Hahneman was in Atlanta Federal...well, that's a long time to run up a budget and do a cover up, even for the Feds. It just isn't believable they would do that. No one is worth that much, to go to those lengths. Frankly, I think someone...if they were trying to hide something really big...would simply have killed him off. They wouldn't keep sending out agents on phony errands and running up thousands of files on Cooper for more than a decade. 

Yikes,, way too many bogus assumptions... that is one reason I don't share 80% of my info.

You don't know what you don't know..

That attitude and thinking is exactly why the case wasn't solved.

If I started with your attitude I would never have uncovered all the info I have.

Without prints in 1972 how would the FBI prove anybody was the HJ.. even the FBI admitted that the case would only be solved if the HJ co-operated. There wasn't enough evidence.

Hahneman was not a copycat, a US official said he was planning for a year.. predating NORJAK.

 

Something extraordinary occurred for this to remain "unsolved", making generalized and baseless assumptions doesn't cut it. Accepting prevalent narratives doesn't cut it. Claiming the FBI would have solved it, charged and convicted somebody if they crossed their path doesn't cut it either..

You just don't know what you don't know.

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10 hours ago, dudeman17 said:

That picture of Himmelsbach - He's got a tub of popcorn.

Is he in a theater watching the Treat Williams movie?

Yes. 

Flyjack says, in part:

Quote

 

"Yikes,, way too many bogus assumptions... that is one reason I don't share 80% of my info.

You don't know what you don't know..

That attitude and thinking is exactly why the case wasn't solved.

 

Those points I made aren't bogus assumptions. You cannot expect people to believe that six months after Cooper, that at least a few FBI officials must have wondered immediately if Hahneman was possibly Cooper. It is 1972. They are dedicating major resources and agents to find out who the heck Cooper was, and to arrest him. They checked out McCoy pretty thoroughly for Cooper and decided he wasn't the guy for a couple of reasons. And McCoy looks much more like the sketch than the pictures I have seen of Fred Hahneman in news photos where he is being led away in handcuffs. But Hahneman, unlike McCoy, did not escape and later get himself killed as McCoy did. In other words, they had Hahneman in custody for more than ten years. It would be an easy matter for the FBI to parade the witnesses in front of him while he was in Federal prison for all those years. Yet for some reason, they obviously did not, or it would have made the news. Why didn't they? 

But for some reason, the FBI didn't seem to think he was Cooper. Maybe the witnesses wrote him off with the FBI right away. "No way," they may have said. "He's not even close." And Hahneman was locked up with the Feds for ten years and then released free and clear. In all of the FBI releases to date, not one file that I have seen even hints he could be Cooper, and then meanwhile...the FBI continues to break the budget trying to find Cooper. Why is that? 

What's going on here is that you don't know what the FBI knows about Hahneman, not that we don't know. Or even I. But for some reason they must have decided he was not Cooper, because once you have someone in custody and they aren't going anywhere...it isn't that hard to investigate them further. They could visit him in Atlanta and question him. They could bring the witnesses. They could even make an offer of release or a shorter sentence if he fesses up to Cooper. But obviously they didn't do any of that. Why? That is the real question. And the most likely answer is that somehow....they figured out he wasn't their guy for Flight 305 and moved on with the Cooper investigation. 

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(edited)

Eric Ulis says today:

Quote

"Of note, I have theorized and suspect that the F-106s being several miles east of 305 and flying somewhat more freely are actually the radar plot source for the FBI Flight Path map. In other words, I suspect the FBI Flight Path shows the F-106s and not 305. This, of course, would put 305 on the Western Flight Path as a few of us believe..."

You are funny indeed. Ever heard of a transponder? Flight 305 had one, and the Boys From Brazil (Paul Soderlind and his team from NWA, as well as ATC) were monitoring. They knew where that flight was every minute, from crew transmissions, the radar hits that matched 305, and info from 305's transponder. There is no 'Western Flight Path,' Eric. There never was. 

If the FBI's flight path map was actually based on the path of the F-106's, that map would have shown huge 'S' turns on it, since the jets had to do that just to keep from stalling out when they were tracking 305. B)

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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4 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Yes. 

Flyjack says, in part:

Those points I made aren't bogus assumptions. You cannot expect people to believe that six months after Cooper, that at least a few FBI officials must have wondered immediately if Hahneman was possibly Cooper. It is 1972. They are dedicating major resources and agents to find out who the heck Cooper was, and to arrest him. They checked out McCoy pretty thoroughly for Cooper and decided he wasn't the guy for a couple of reasons. And McCoy looks much more like the sketch than the pictures I have seen of Fred Hahneman in news photos where he is being led away in handcuffs. But Hahneman, unlike McCoy, did not escape and later get himself killed as McCoy did. In other words, they had Hahneman in custody for more than ten years. It would be an easy matter for the FBI to parade the witnesses in front of him while he was in Federal prison for all those years. Yet for some reason, they obviously did not, or it would have made the news. Why didn't they? 

But for some reason, the FBI didn't seem to think he was Cooper. Maybe the witnesses wrote him off with the FBI right away. "No way," they may have said. "He's not even close." And Hahneman was locked up with the Feds for ten years and then released free and clear. In all of the FBI releases to date, not one file that I have seen even hints he could be Cooper, and then meanwhile...the FBI continues to break the budget trying to find Cooper. Why is that? 

What's going on here is that you don't know what the FBI knows about Hahneman, not that we don't know. Or even I. But for some reason they must have decided he was not Cooper, because once you have someone in custody and they aren't going anywhere...it isn't that hard to investigate them further. They could visit him in Atlanta and question him. They could bring the witnesses. They could even make an offer of release or a shorter sentence if he fesses up to Cooper. But obviously they didn't do any of that. Why? That is the real question. And the most likely answer is that somehow....they figured out he wasn't their guy for Flight 305 and moved on with the Cooper investigation. 

 

"Everyone was blind, deaf and dumb..."

 

Yes, they are bogus, completely ignorant comments. You really know virtually nothing about Hahneman yet have confidence in lots of conclusions.

 

and you botched this..

Hahneman resembles sketch B better than McCoy,, sketch B was more accurate, so says the FBI. Sketch A should be tossed in the dust bin with the western flight path. Sketch B was the best representation of Cooper. 

"for some reason they must have decided he was not Cooper" really, what reason? If somebody could explain why he was eliminated that would be great. But all I hear is vague and uniformed assumptions with an opinion attached.

I did find a gross error made by the FBI that would eliminate Hahneman as Cooper if true, it is 100% false, if they did use that then they got it wrong but I don't know if that was used.

 

But on another level, the fact that we have virtually no info on Hahneman regarding Cooper is a tell not a reason to reject.. we have info on many high profile suspects who are not Cooper but not for Hahneman.. All the other suspects are named in the files unless they were still alive but not Hahneman.. virtually nothing.. as if he has been erased. Remember, Hahneman matches Cooper better than any other suspect yet is virtually invisible. Even suspects that were eliminated are heavily discussed on the FBI files.

 

What is really going on is everybody (me too) accepted the false narrative that Hahneman was a copycat, he wasn't. That false label itself defined and contained any questions within a false construct. Then everyone assumed Hahneman must have been eliminated by the FBI but nobody can explain why... In fact Snow asked Carr this very question,, (why was Hahneman eliminated). Carr didn't answer and was gone from DZ soon after.  So, Hahneman was ignored. When I started researching Hahneman my goal was to find out why he was eliminated,, instead I found that he was a near perfect match for Cooper far beyond any other suspect and I have not been able to eliminate him or find out if the FBI did..

 

What you have done and many others is eliminated a suspect based on biased assumptions, not on evidence and that isn't a rational approach to a very extraordinary case. It is amateurish thinking.

You should start with the question,, why wasn't Hahneman Cooper,, not the assumption that he wasn't because the FBI would've known and told us. <<  this closes your mind and ends any intellectual inquiry but maybe that was the plan all along. If everyone thought he was a copycat then he wasn't Cooper.

For Hahneman, there were influences higher than the FBI at work here..

The proper position for most who know very little about Hahneman is neither reject nor accept Hahneman as Cooper,,,

 

 

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Quote

 

Yes, they are bogus, completely ignorant comments. You really know virtually nothing about Hahneman yet have confidence in lots of conclusions

and you botched this..

Hahneman resembles sketch B better than McCoy,, sketch B was more accurate, so says the FBI. Sketch A should be tossed in the dust bin with the western flight path. Sketch B was the best representation of Cooper. 

 

Okay, suppose I buy all of this and accept it. If an arsonist burned down the Space Needle and they didn't know who he was, but had witnesses...and then six months later the same guy burns down the Columbia Tower...and they catch him...don't you think the cops would have sense enough to consider the idea that both were done by the same guy, and to check out that possibility?

McCoy was front page news when they caught him, and the stories were hot and heavy that he might also be Cooper. 

Yet Hahneman isn't even mentioned as a possible suspect, and his MO was virtually the same. You should ask yourself why the FBI might have wrote him off immediately without investigating whether he was also Cooper. Maybe they had a reason NOT to investigate. Maybe somehow they knew right off the bat he wasn't Cooper. Both Cooper and Hahneman did their hijackings six months apart. And McCoy was right in there as well. 

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32 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Okay, suppose I buy all of this and accept it. If an arsonist burned down the Space Needle and they didn't know who he was, but had witnesses...and then six months later the same guy burns down the Columbia Tower...and they catch him...don't you think the cops would have sense enough to consider the idea that both were done by the same guy, and to check out that possibility?

McCoy was front page news when they caught him, and the stories were hot and heavy that he might also be Cooper. 

Yet Hahneman isn't even mentioned as a possible suspect, and his MO was virtually the same. You should ask yourself why the FBI might have wrote him off immediately without investigating whether he was also Cooper. Maybe they had a reason NOT to investigate. Maybe somehow they knew right off the bat he wasn't Cooper. Both Cooper and Hahneman did their hijackings six months apart. And McCoy was right in there as well. 

You keep repeating yourself and making the same errors,, 

I told you before they did look at Hahneman...

I don't need to ask myself anything..

You should ask yourself why you know virtually nothing about a suspect that matches Cooper nearly perfectly..

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57 minutes ago, Divalent said:

So does this look like Cooper?  Lots of details about Hahneman in the Wikipedia account:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Hahneman#The_hijacking

(what brand of cigarette did Cooper smoke?)

Maybe he lost the "Cooper" money in his jump, so that explains why he did it again (assuming he was, in fact, Cooper).

William Hahnemann.JPG

The wiki page is somewhat superficial and general citing news articles..

It is OK for a general overview of his hijacking but not nearly enough detail.

I have thousands of docs on Hahneman from many sources including the FBI.

 

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(edited)

Well, at some point you will have to present at least a minimum of proof-of-results that Hahneman WAS investigated for the Cooper case...and was either dismissed...or was considered a suspect in the Cooper case...and how they came to that conclusion. I haven't made any unreasonable assumptions. The basic facts are simple:

  • Cooper pulls off a hijacking on 11/24/71 and is unidentified. 
  • Six months later, (approximately) both Hahneman and McCoy do their hijackings with a similar MO. 
  • McCoy is heavily investigated and questioned about the Cooper case. Although later he is generally dismissed, doubts remain even today that he was dismissed for cause. Maybe he WAS Cooper. But no one will ever know, because he escapes from custody and is later killed. He could, in fact, actually have been Cooper. Years later, there were even moves to do an exhumation and a DNA test. He still has his supporters as being Cooper. 
  • Hahneman was in custody with the Feds for approximately ten years and then released. He is never charged with the Cooper hijacking, and news reports are not available even showing the FBI thought he was a strong suspect for Cooper. 
  • The gorilla in the room, as they say, is that the FBI continued full-bore on their Cooper investigation, even after they had Hahneman in jail, and after McCoy was killed. So the obvious question is why would they do that if they had the slightest suspicion that a guy they already had locked down at the Atlanta Federal Penitentiary was Cooper? They would have come after him in interview rooms with both guns (virtually) blazing. It's what they do. Agents would have been visiting him at Atlanta at least once a week. 
  • Ask yourself why they didn't seem to focus on him as Cooper, at least where the public or the news media would have been reporting all that...such as they did with McCoy. 
  • It begs the question that perhaps they wrote off Hahneman for the Cooper case because they know something that you don't. 

EDIT: Believe it or not, I have an open mind regarding the question of Hahneman possibly being Cooper. I suppose since he had a similar MO to Cooper and McCoy, he's as good a suspect as any of the others.

But if you are going to engage in absolutes...(he ABSOLUTELY was Cooper) then you will have to present more than you have to date. If you say you can't, or won't...then in Cooperland it is hard for people to accept your conclusions. 

In other words, 'because I say so,' and 'just trust me on this,' are poor arguments. As far as KC goes, I can't say absolutely he was Cooper...but I DID make the entire 54-page report on him available at the AB website for download. It's been there for a few years now. Nothing really bad has happened as a result of that release. It's been downloaded...well, I stopped keeping track when it went over 50K or so. The world has not collapsed into a black hole as a result. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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Well, I don't know, but for the sake of conversation I'll hazard a guess. I don't think Flyjack is saying that Hahneman is absolutely Cooper. I think he's saying that H is a better suspect than any other, so he's working that angle.

The key statement I see in this exchange is...

6 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

For Hahneman, there were influences higher than the FBI at work here..

If Hahneman was Cooper, and the FBI came to know that, but the public wasn't supposed to know because...

6 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

For Hahneman, there were influences higher than the FBI at work here..

...then I could see where the FBI just doesn't say anything about him, which seems to be the case. But since the Cooper case is so prevalent in the public eye, then the FBI has to keep up the appearance of 'looking for Cooper', but they never get anywhere, which also seems to be the case.

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(edited)
21 minutes ago, dudeman17 said:

Well, I don't know, but for the sake of conversation I'll hazard a guess. I don't think Flyjack is saying that Hahneman is absolutely Cooper. I think he's saying that H is a better suspect than any other, so he's working that angle.

The key statement I see in this exchange is...

If Hahneman was Cooper, and the FBI came to know that, but the public wasn't supposed to know because...

...then I could see where the FBI just doesn't say anything about him, which seems to be the case. But since the Cooper case is so prevalent in the public eye, then the FBI has to keep up the appearance of 'looking for Cooper', but they never get anywhere, which also seems to be the case.

Now you are talking a conspiracy...where the FBI spends mass money and tens of thousands of man hours or more...to keep up the pretense of looking for Cooper...over the ten year period that Fred Hahneman was sitting in the Atlanta Federal Pen. I am not buying this, not for a second, not for a minute. The Cooper hijacking was not a 'test' of airline security, and wasn't a political statement. It was a robbery for cash, plain and simple. Once you start bringing up conspiracies, that is a claim that requires absolute evidence and proof. I think that if Hahneman was Cooper and for ten long years it was all some hidden conspiracy, the truth would have emerged long ago. And Hahneman would not have sat in Federal prison for his crime for ten years. Like McCoy and Cooper, he just wanted the money. Remember...Hahneman didn't like the denominations of the bills he received, and made the airline switch them. If this were anything but greed for money, if it were some weird conspiracy for some other purpose OTHER than money, he would not have bothered. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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Like I said, I was just making conversation based on the recent exchange. We don't know who or what the Cooper case was. Which means we don't know what it wasn't. It could be simply for cash. It could be the most intricate conspiracy in history. It could be just for cash, but everyone involved 'had' some things on each other. We just don't know for sure, and fifty years later, maybe we never will. The vortex spins...

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(edited)
1 hour ago, dudeman17 said:

Like I said, I was just making conversation based on the recent exchange. We don't know who or what the Cooper case was. Which means we don't know what it wasn't. It could be simply for cash. It could be the most intricate conspiracy in history. It could be just for cash, but everyone involved 'had' some things on each other. We just don't know for sure, and fifty years later, maybe we never will. The vortex spins...

There is no vortex. That was a concept invented by haters, people who practice exclusion, and who lie at the Mountain News using false identities. 

I deal in REALITY, for the most part. I try to do it without an obvious agenda, especially if hate is involved. I do not go there. 

What I do is to point out that hatred for the public, in the hopes that Cooperland will finally get their heads on straight. 'They' have no idea how many people we actually reach on this issue. It's a lot. 

A SECOND UFO Skywatch/DB Cooper Campout has been proposed at SUFON. This time they want to do it at Baker Lake, WA and I get some help (thank you) this time. More coming soon the first week of September. Event would be late September.  B) Unlike people like Eric, we know how to have fun with Cooper. You guys are WAY too serious sometimes, and a select few of you engage in both hatred and lies far too much. (I don't mean YOU, Dudeman.) 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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(edited)
15 hours ago, Divalent said:

So does this look like Cooper?  Lots of details about Hahneman in the Wikipedia account:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Hahneman#The_hijacking

(what brand of cigarette did Cooper smoke?)

Maybe he lost the "Cooper" money in his jump, so that explains why he did it again (assuming he was, in fact, Cooper).

William Hahnemann.JPG

My thoughts on his appearance... (disregarding everything else since I know little about him as a suspect) he does look the right age and does look "geeky" to me. You can kind of see a "turkey gobble" in some pictures of him but it is not very prominent. The more I look at him actually the more he looks like the second sketch. I am split on the hair though. Cooper had more hair and it was parted to the side, wasn't it? But I suppose that's something very easy to disguise or modify with a wig or a haircut, especially if you are changing your appearance for a crime.

Edited by Coopericane

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7 hours ago, dudeman17 said:

Well, I don't know, but for the sake of conversation I'll hazard a guess. I don't think Flyjack is saying that Hahneman is absolutely Cooper. I think he's saying that H is a better suspect than any other, so he's working that angle.

The key statement I see in this exchange is...

If Hahneman was Cooper, and the FBI came to know that, but the public wasn't supposed to know because...

...then I could see where the FBI just doesn't say anything about him, which seems to be the case. But since the Cooper case is so prevalent in the public eye, then the FBI has to keep up the appearance of 'looking for Cooper', but they never get anywhere, which also seems to be the case.

Sort of... close

Hahneman is the best suspect by a long shot, not even close.. I have been trying to put him on the plane but without confirmed prints and full DNA that is proving impossible. The DNA is partial (exclude only) and the prints are not confirmed to be Cooper's. Even the FBI admitted that the case can't be solved without the co-operation of Cooper. It seems impossible to put any suspect on the plane.

I don't believe the FBI as an agency engaged in a cover up or any "conspiracy", but the CIA/State Department did intervene in the Hahneman case to protect themselves. L Patrick Grey was the FBI director who resigned for destroying Watergate evidence liked to Howard E Hunt.. Hunt was asked about Hahneman's involvement in the CIA coup in Guatemala... It appears Hahneman with security clearances did Gov contract work all over the world in some very sketchy places..  High level individuals within the FBI may have undermined the investigation into Hahneman on behalf of the CIA/State Department without necessarily knowing why. 

Today is different, Hahneman is redacted from the FBI files, that only happens if the person is still alive or the FBI wants to hide something. If he was eliminated and is dead then why is he redacted. I believe he was flagged to be redacted.

 

9 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Now you are talking a conspiracy...where the FBI spends mass money and tens of thousands of man hours or more...to keep up the pretense of looking for Cooper...over the ten year period that Fred Hahneman was sitting in the Atlanta Federal Pen. I am not buying this, not for a second, not for a minute. The Cooper hijacking was not a 'test' of airline security, and wasn't a political statement. It was a robbery for cash, plain and simple. Once you start bringing up conspiracies, that is a claim that requires absolute evidence and proof. I think that if Hahneman was Cooper and for ten long years it was all some hidden conspiracy, the truth would have emerged long ago. And Hahneman would not have sat in Federal prison for his crime for ten years. Like McCoy and Cooper, he just wanted the money. Remember...Hahneman didn't like the denominations of the bills he received, and made the airline switch them. If this were anything but greed for money, if it were some weird conspiracy for some other purpose OTHER than money, he would not have bothered. 

No, Robert you are the only one throwing around the term "conspiracy theory". Then you attack that strawman.

Hahneman claimed the money was for arms for a coup in Honduras.. not sure, maybe, but the Honduras authorities claimed a coup was nonsense, there was a US backed military coup 5 months later. He also said the money exchange at the airport was a delay tactic to ensure his jump would be a "night jump".  Cooper also planned a "night jump"..  

 

12 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Well, at some point you will have to present at least a minimum of proof-of-results that Hahneman WAS investigated for the Cooper case...and was either dismissed...or was considered a suspect in the Cooper case...and how they came to that conclusion. I haven't made any unreasonable assumptions. The basic facts are simple:

  • Cooper pulls off a hijacking on 11/24/71 and is unidentified. 
  • Six months later, (approximately) both Hahneman and McCoy do their hijackings with a similar MO. 
  • McCoy is heavily investigated and questioned about the Cooper case. Although later he is generally dismissed, doubts remain even today that he was dismissed for cause. Maybe he WAS Cooper. But no one will ever know, because he escapes from custody and is later killed. He could, in fact, actually have been Cooper. Years later, there were even moves to do an exhumation and a DNA test. He still has his supporters as being Cooper. 
  • Hahneman was in custody with the Feds for approximately ten years and then released. He is never charged with the Cooper hijacking, and news reports are not available even showing the FBI thought he was a strong suspect for Cooper. 
  • The gorilla in the room, as they say, is that the FBI continued full-bore on their Cooper investigation, even after they had Hahneman in jail, and after McCoy was killed. So the obvious question is why would they do that if they had the slightest suspicion that a guy they already had locked down at the Atlanta Federal Penitentiary was Cooper? They would have come after him in interview rooms with both guns (virtually) blazing. It's what they do. Agents would have been visiting him at Atlanta at least once a week. 
  • Ask yourself why they didn't seem to focus on him as Cooper, at least where the public or the news media would have been reporting all that...such as they did with McCoy. 
  • It begs the question that perhaps they wrote off Hahneman for the Cooper case because they know something that you don't. 

EDIT: Believe it or not, I have an open mind regarding the question of Hahneman possibly being Cooper. I suppose since he had a similar MO to Cooper and McCoy, he's as good a suspect as any of the others.

But if you are going to engage in absolutes...(he ABSOLUTELY was Cooper) then you will have to present more than you have to date. If you say you can't, or won't...then in Cooperland it is hard for people to accept your conclusions. 

In other words, 'because I say so,' and 'just trust me on this,' are poor arguments. As far as KC goes, I can't say absolutely he was Cooper...but I DID make the entire 54-page report on him available at the AB website for download. It's been there for a few years now. Nothing really bad has happened as a result of that release. It's been downloaded...well, I stopped keeping track when it went over 50K or so. The world has not collapsed into a black hole as a result. 

No Robert, I don't have to do anything.

You claim the basic facts are simple,, then make baseless assumptions..

The facts are not simple, it is complex and I have thousands of pieces of info..

I don't owe you or anyone any info I have.

The only person I need to convince is myself.

You and others have rejected Hahneman with assumptions based on virtually no information on him or even wrong information.. 

My point is your assumptions are wrong and it isn't my responsibility to prove they are wrong. 

You have built a purely speculative narrative from thin air... exactly like Ulis does. A narrative that puts you in a self imposed box. I have no interest in opening that box for you. It is very time consuming and there is no upside for me.

 

My advice to you and others is to stop making assumptions about things based on your own lack of knowledge.. it is a trap. You don't know what you don't know and not knowing is a fertile environment for wild speculation.

 

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I do have Hahneman's Gov ink fingerprint from 1972,, 

There are no ridges.. there is no print just a smudge.

 

I have researched this and there are a few possible reasons...

A rare genetic condition..  unlikely.

An intentional obliteration, sanding the fingers.. possible.

Occupational, chemical or abrasive environment.. possible.

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3 hours ago, Coopericane said:

My thoughts on his appearance... (disregarding everything else since I know little about him as a suspect) he does look the right age and does look "geeky" to me. You can kind of see a "turkey gobble" in some pictures of him but it is not very prominent. The more I look at him actually the more he looks like the second sketch. I am split on the hair though. Cooper had more hair and it was parted to the side, wasn't it? But I suppose that's something very easy to disguise or modify with a wig or a haircut, especially if you are changing your appearance for a crime.

First, the bing sketch A should be tossed, the FBI revised it to sketch B to be more accurate for age and complexion and stated it was the most accurate sketch. 

I have maybe a dozen images of Hahneman, his look changes significantly, his weight fluctuates and hair style changes.. he really looks like 3 different people.. his face really changes with weight.

His hair is wavy, curled or marceled and parted on the left... I have one picture where he has it slicked straight back and one where it is short and forward..

Hahneman was 49 and did have the turkey neck, he also had thin lips like Cooper and a slightly protruding lower lip.. sloped forehead.. slightly receeding hairline.

Hahneman had slight greying hair on the temples, Cooper did not, however Bill Mitchell said he thought Coopers hair looked odd possibly dyed.. Some images of Hahneman don't show the greying sides. 

 

One witness said Cooper's hair was like George Raft and Nixon..

That matches Hahneman's hair..

Haheman doesn't have his hair slicked back here but he sometimes slicks his hair back.

You can see the wavy/marceled hair and slight greying on sides..

 

rafthahnixona.jpg.e4dfb8d03b60dae3119816a44f9090c6.jpg

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(edited)
Quote

You and others have rejected Hahneman with assumptions based on virtually no information on him or even wrong information.. 

Even a single witness to his whereabouts on 11/24/71 would help. Even I can provide stuff like that regarding KC. And Geestman, a guy who swore to me that he was certain KC wasn't Cooper...and then said on national TV that KC could have been Cooper because he looked just like the hijacker. He even tried lying to History Channel researchers saying he hardly knew Kenny and thought he washed dishes for a living. Yet KC was at his wedding and they worked together for years. Obviously, he was hiding something. 

You say you have a lot of files, and I believe you. You need some witnesses, unless you come up with a file from the FBI saying that Hahneman was Cooper and they covered it up. The only reason Geestman drove down from Port Angeles to Puyallup to appear on Decoded is because they caught him in a string of lies. It was attempted damage control, because History Channel researchers aren't stupid, and they had him cornered. He wasn't paid a penny. Before he did show up, he called up one of my witnesses, Dawn Androsko of Fox Island, (his own sister) and told her to retract everything she had told me. She refused. Later, Geestman's own niece testified that she saw KC creating the phony bomb in Geestman's garage only two weeks prior to the hijacking. That is called evidence, my friend. 

Don't lie to yourself. Of course you are trying to convince people Hahneman was Cooper. Otherwise you wouldn't keep posting what you DO have at Dropzone. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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That's interesting stuff, Flyjack. I have to chuckle a bit, you say you don't see the FBI as involved in a coverup, but what you describe sounds a lot like that possibility. It raises a couple questions, though. And I don't say this in any way to refute your theory, just curiosity.

If they cover Hahnemann for Cooper, yet shortly thereafter they convict and jail him for the next one - why? Wouldn't the same circumstances apply? Maybe they cover him for one, but when he does it again, they say 'we can't keep doing this'? But if that's the case, then why not go ahead and out him as Cooper? And why does he do it twice? Does he need more money? Did he lose the money in 'Cooper'? If he did, might that contribute to the Tina Bar find? A lot of possibilities...

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6 minutes ago, dudeman17 said:

That's interesting stuff, Flyjack. I have to chuckle a bit, you say you don't see the FBI as involved in a coverup, but what you describe sounds a lot like that possibility. It raises a couple questions, though. And I don't say this in any way to refute your theory, just curiosity.

If they cover Hahnemann for Cooper, yet shortly thereafter they convict and jail him for the next one - why? Wouldn't the same circumstances apply? Maybe they cover him for one, but when he does it again, they say 'we can't keep doing this'? But if that's the case, then why not go ahead and out him as Cooper? And why does he do it twice? Does he need more money? Did he lose the money in 'Cooper'? If he did, might that contribute to the Tina Bar find? A lot of possibilities...

It is complicated, but Hahneman was not on the FBI radar until after his hijacking had taken place. 

The crew of his hijacked plane told the FBI that he was Cooper.. (their opinion)

Hahneman was NOT ID'd yet and the FBI compared random prints from his plane to NORJAK prints with no match.. they also showed a sketch for his HJ to NORJAK witnesses. That sketch resembled Hahneman but was not that great according to witnesses. Once Hahneman turned himself in and was identified any connection to Cooper is redacted.

While in custody Hahneman had high level intervention on his behalf.. State Department level. 

They had him on his hijacking though not the money, he had stashed it. It was located a year later..   I believe he spilled its location to a jailhouse plant.

He got most charges dropped and a reduced sentence,, ended up serving 12 years.

There were others implicated but not directly involved who were very high profile..

The deal seems to have been to cover up the extent and isolate the Hijacking to only Hahneman and keep him quiet about his "security clearance" work for the Gov. The purpose was not to cover up the Cooper case but to protect the CIA/State Department and others from disclosure of embarrasing information right when they were being criticized for foreign activities. Undermining the Cooper investigation was ancillary.

For Cooper, I really don't know what the FBI believed regarding Hahneman, they did lie to the press about him. They stated that he returned from Vietnam in January '72 implying he can't be Cooper, but several witnesses place him in the US before that. I have documents that put him in Honduras January 72 establishing Honduran residency and citizenship,, but he used an altered name and fake birthdate. He was hiding in January 72 well before his hijacking.

So, six weeks after NORJAK Hahneman has fled to Honduras to establish residency, one report was that he paid some taxes there.. but if he was Cooper he would have taken any money he had with him and theoretically spent it there.. perhaps that is why it has never been found in circulation.

So, the Cooper case wasn't the coverup. The coverup was to minimize Hahneman and his connection to CIA/State activities and other high level people at a time when the CIA/State was under scrutiny..

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Don't lie to yourself. Of course you are trying to convince people Hahneman was Cooper. Otherwise you wouldn't keep posting what you DO have at Dropzone. 

You know by now deep down KC isn't Cooper, right..

It isn't my responsibility to convince anybody Hahneman was Cooper,, that is not what I want to do. The facts determine what people believe. My interest is in getting the facts right not convincing people. Those are completely different things.

Honestly, it just pisses me off when people make baseless and completely false claims when I have all the receipts.... and they have none.

 

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