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DB Cooper

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(edited)

Mark M, aka 377, is the best one to consult on this. The news pictures were kind of low resolution. He did determine it was not made of silk though. (Earl Cossey gave that as a reason he said it wasn't Cooper's, quote: "That chute is made of silk. The ones I gave Cooper were ripstop nylon...') Also, tracing the numbers didn't really go anywhere. When I heard the cargo chute possibility, I pointed out that it takes a human being to separate a chute from its container. And that even a cargo chute has one. And they didn't find a container, even though Larry Carr went down there and allegedly did more digging. 

(Re-posting a portion of my previous post, just to ensure all interested parties see it...so they can't say they weren't informed:) Some edits were done. 

Quote

 

On another subject, let's call it Last Chance for Glory:

The UFO Skywatch/DB Cooper Party is definitely a go. And the PDF providing details about that party has been downloaded a couple of thousand times now, and full attendance is expected. I am making the final preparations as you read this. But I have a message for anyone we know of in Cooperland who might be considering saying the hell with it and trying to drive up there and show up without having the courtesy to notify us in advance. 

I say courtesy because we need to know the approximate number of people showing up due to the free food on Saturday, and because frankly I am treating Cooper Folks like the prosecutor treats hostile witnesses in the courtroom.

What I mean by that is when the prosecutor asks the judge, "Your honor...permission to question as a hostile witness?"

In other words, because of the actions of Bruce Smith at the Mountain News, and his allowing of nearly a hundred negative comments against me and everyone I know...many just outright LIES...on the same news article where both he and Eric Ulis promote Cooper Con 2021...I no longer trust many of you. My apologies, but I do not.

Here are the simple rules if you intend to say the heck with it and drive up to Greenwater and find the event anyway:

  • No one under 21 is allowed. 
  • The only person who is actually banned from the event is Bruce Smith, and that is a result of his irresponsible actions at Mountain News. He could still attend...there is a very narrow window for him...but he would have to wipe off every single negative comment from that CC21 article first. EVERY ONE. Otherwise, we would just send him home or make him stay away from the party area. I do not like doing that, since he was banned from the last party by Bryan Woodruff, a little unfairly I think,...the final one held in 2016 in Ariel, which we sponsored. But he brought this current situation on himself. Since I am sure he has no intention of removing a single comment he allowed by the haters, I am not worried about him showing up uninvited. But if he does show up unannounced, he is wasting his time. 
  • Anyone else we know of, or have heard of in the general Cooper community must inform us by Tuesday afternoon, July 6th of their intention to attend, or they will be turned away as well. And we pretty much know all of you. We don't need troublemakers and we will not allow any single person or persons to try ruining the event for everyone. Not that it's a money thing, but we have more than $2,000 invested in this event. 
  • So don't drive up there uninvited and then whine and bitch because you were turned away. Everyone else coming had the courtesy to apply, and the courtesy to inform us they were coming, which made planning easier. 
  • Frankly, I would prefer it if you DIDN'T apply to attend. We already have two Cooper speakers, a radio guy from Port Orchard coming, and the speaker list is pretty much filled anyway. Just wait for the video at YouTube and save yourselves the trip. If any of you were actually interested for real, and simply applied to attend in a courteous manner like everyone else did...you would have done so by now. But not only did some of you use our announcements on the event to attack me personally, as well as some of my friends, you didn't even bother with a SINGLE DECENT RESPONSE about the event. Not one. So that tells me you had no interest. No use trying to drum up some phony interest now. You had your chance, and that chance was going for nearly six months. 
  • On the off-chance that one or two of you have come to your senses and really want to attend and NOT be there to cause problems...you can try to convince me of your sincerity at [email protected] That window is closing fast. 

I doubt this will happen (anyone else from Cooperland deciding they want to attend), but I'm a big believer in giving people every chance to Do The Right Thing, as Spike Lee once said. 

 

 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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45 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

So, I know nothing about parachute construction.

This is the Amboy chute edge seam and line attachment,,, does it indicate anything? cargo vs personal?

 

amboychute.jpeg.0a804b2f73fa8952026e18075885e32d.jpeg

 

ambchute1.thumb.jpg.49323e461f7210ae46428f30e03d2443.jpg

There may be something different in the construction of cargo chutes for the weight.. IDK

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Notice all the dirt and dust on the ground from the chute, and that the chute is more discolored in some places than others. It was buried for a long time, and was obviously white at one time. I can't figure out how Cossey, the so-called expert, said it was made of silk. A simple test with a Bic lighter would have shown the difference. Silk is also biodegradable, and nylon is not. The nylon shows an obvious crosshatch pattern as well. He would have seen that easily. So...he lies saying it's silk, and later that day lies to the Seattle Times saying the chute IS Cooper's. He only retracts when a senior editor calls him back on the phone. Cossey says it was a joke. The reporter was nearly fired from the paper and got very angry at Cossey. All this happened between a Wednesday and the following Monday, approximately in this order:

  • Wednesday:  FBI tells media the chute is being sent upstairs to their in house lab for examination. 
  • Thursday: Instead, two agents put it into the trunk of a government car and drive over to Cossey's house. He looks at it for about a minute and sends them away. 
  • Friday: FBI says they are now consulting outside experts. Later, they say they only talked to a few of them on the phone and none of them were allowed to actually see it. 
  • Monday:  FBI announces the chute is not Cooper's, and when asked how they came to that conclusion, their only answer is 'by a preponderance of the evidence'. No actual evidence is ever announced. Eight years later, they are still calling it evidence in an ongoing case and can't discuss it. 
  • At the same time, Cossey tells reporters he knew the chute wasn't Cooper's 'in less than ten seconds,' and goes on to claim the reason he knows this is because it is made of silk. That claim of silk has since been roundly discounted by other people using blowups of the photographs, which show an obvious cross hatch pattern on the material, indicating nylon. 
  • Tom Kaye's team is denied access to the chute, although they have a standing offer with the Seattle FBI to examine it.  
  • No one except the Seattle FBI knows the final disposition of the chute. 

I would send a message to 377 and ask him about it again. He put up some comments about that chute a long time ago here at Dropzone, but that was years back. 

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The chute in question is far too heavy to be silk. And you see the date of manufacture, Feb 1946. The use of silk in the US at that time, just after WW2, was near zero. Most silk prior to the war came from Japan. The one you linked at Worthpoint looks like it IS silk. You can actually see through the material in that one picture. Why they would make a cargo chute out of silk in the late 1960's is beyond me, though. Most chutes had long ago gone to nylon. Silk is expensive. 

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On 7/2/2021 at 2:56 PM, Para-DZ said:

Chaucer is passive aggressive. He starts arguments and then tries to pretend he’s your pal. He got himself kicked out of a DB Cooper Facebook group I heard. He’s trying to be relevant in the case by trying to cast doubt. Anyone can do that about anything. The man named Georger takes his side only because he doesn’t agree with Flyjack. Chaucer you should go back to the Zodiac case. 

Nine.

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34 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

1946 silk parachute on ebay..

https://www.ebay.com/itm/294192214941

s-l1600.jpg

Well...I know there couldn't have been a whole LOT of silk around right after WW2 unless the American occupation force somehow managed to re-start mass shipments of silk to the USA. After the war began, the silk supply dried up and that's basically why they went to nylon. 

But you can see from the two silk chutes you posted that they are much thinner, more transparent, and probably much lighter in material weight than the nylon chutes. The one sitting on the floor of the parking garage at the Seattle FBI looks pretty heavy to me. 

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(edited)

Hard to tell the weight of the material in pics especially when it is so caked with dirt. Silk shows signs deterioration after 4 years buried in soil, if it was silk it was buried for less than 4 years...

But, it looks like the Amboy chute won't be resolved without more info. 

No idea if it is silk or not,, and if not there is no way to confirm it was Cooper's.

Edited by FLYJACK

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(edited)

The bomb was fake because dynamite is tan argument has always bothered me...

There is red dynamite. Dynamite was made by many companies some very local.

For example, this is vintage ditching dynamite made by CIL, a Canadian company, they sold amunition products to the US, haven't confirmed the dynamite specifically but I believe they did. 

Note, very little writing on the sticks, if it was taped and turned no writing would be noticed.

It doesn't mean the bomb was real, just the argument that if the sticks were red it was fake =  BUSTED.

 

14664558_web1_K-Strat-Comms---MR---EDU-3---2018-11-27.jpg.aab21c210e8e7b95cee3fd94f4fabda1.jpg

Edited by FLYJACK

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(edited)
39 minutes ago, The Cooper Vortex said:

It's a sign you need to come on the show. That'd be a great birthday present.

You should celebrate with a Bourbon and Seven-Up...

Which Bourbon did Cooper have??

"NO TIPPING PLEASE"

57-NWOdrinkmenu.thumb.jpg.323616e17d49b9765f7206f03fd5fa69.jpg

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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(edited)
6 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Hard to tell the weight of the material in pics especially when it is so caked with dirt. Silk shows signs deterioration after 4 years buried in soil, if it was silk it was buried for less than 4 years...

But, it looks like the Amboy chute won't be resolved without more info. 

No idea if it is silk or not,, and if not there is no way to confirm it was Cooper's.

You are right. There is only one way to confirm. Well, two. Either the Seattle FBI coughs up the truth on what they really discovered about it...or if they finally allow Tom Kaye's team to have a look at it. Frankly, I always found it suspicious that Citizen Sleuths were handed over virtually all the physical evidence...but were denied access to the chute. 

That's funny, I thought Cooper's birthday wasn't until fall. Hmm. ^_^

KCFinalRest.jpg

As far as the bomb being real or not, I would bet the farm it was a phony. I spent much time and effort getting the testimony of Bernie Geestman's niece Denise to go on the record with that British director John Dower. Worked with him for two days, took off work, etc. And that idiot doesn't tell anyone that what he is actually seeking are the 'Cooper Nuts,' just like he did in his previous movie about Scientology. 

This was confessed to me by one of the producers long AFTER shooting. She said that was Dower's object all along, but he was keeping that a secret so as not to frighten or discourage potential people who would appear in the film. He was never looking to 'solve' the case, she said. He was presenting pieces of the Vortex, and showing how people get obsessed with the Cooper case. It was a big waste of my time and everyone else's. Then the critics pan the movie anyway, one of them saying "it never comes in for a landing." I don't even think it made it from the jetway to the runway. 

But the bad part was that I didn't film her testimony myself, which...no matter what...I considered the most important thing to accomplish. I let Dower do it instead because I trusted him, and THIS after I had worked with that family for three years previously to convince her to come forward in the first place. She was questioned heavily by Dower himself for a half hour, and presented very well as a witness. I think everybody should have seen that testimony. It ended up on the cutting room floor and Dower's movie on Cooper turned out to be a joke. 

I may try to get her for a second go-around, but then the pandemic hit and put a stop to everything...at least until just last week when everything finally returned to a semblance of normal. Her son Jordan said he would be happy to help do that, but like I said, Covid just put a stop to everything. And now...after I wrap up this party thing we have going next weekend...there will be other things I have to do other than chasing DB Cooper. I have a book to wrap, and a move to California to organize, parents to assist in Arizona, daughters to visit in Las Vegas (the X-ray tech) and Missouri (the teacher), and other stuff. Not sure I will ever get around to it. It's just a damn, dirty shame. I told the producer that if I had known their goal was to present the weirdo side of Cooperland, I would have refused to participate in the shoot. I would have instead done the interview with Denise myself, and loaded it to YouTube. I suppose the only good thing about it is I was too normal and straightforward for them. 

SimpleStory.jpg

I need some more rope for this weekend. I gotta go to the Wal Mart... ¬¬ I hope all of you, even Bruce Smith, had a great Fourth of July. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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5 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

You are right. There is only one way to confirm. Well, two. Either the Seattle FBI coughs up the truth on what they really discovered about it...or if they finally allow Tom Kaye's team to have a look at it. Frankly, I always found it suspicious that Citizen Sleuths were handed over virtually all the physical evidence...but were denied access to the chute. 

That's funny, I thought Cooper's birthday came at the END of this month. Hmm. ^_^

 

KCFinalRest.jpg

Born in 1994?

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(edited)
56 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Born in 1994?

Yeah, I corrected that...ha...not enough coffee this morning. 

On a side note, I did make efforts to convince John Dower to at least post the Denise footage to YouTube on his own, or send it to me and grant me a license for it. He wouldn't do it, even after I explained how important it was for people to hear her and judge her testimony on their own. And how long I had worked with that family, etc. 

What a jerk. Picture below of me, him, one of the cameramen. And one picture of the female producer who finally told me the truth about the movie. I don't look very happy in the picture. I think I was beginning to suspect the whole thing was a sham. 

PostShot1.jpg

AnnaS1.jpg

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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1 hour ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Yeah, I corrected that...ha...not enough coffee this morning. 

On a side note, I did make efforts to convince John Dower to at least post the Denise footage to YouTube on his own, or send it to me and grant me a license for it. He wouldn't do it, even after I explained how important it was for people to hear her and judge her testimony on their own. And how long I had worked with that family, etc. 

What a jerk. Picture below of me, him, one of the cameramen. And one picture of the female producer who finally told me the truth about the movie. I don't look very happy in the picture. I think I was beginning to suspect the whole thing was a sham. 

PostShot1.jpg

AnnaS1.jpg

Everyone liked it Robert. Everyone but you. They cut Kenny out, so it became a sham. If they'd left him in there, you'd still be talking about how great it was.

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(edited)
32 minutes ago, ParrotheadVol said:

Everyone liked it Robert. Everyone but you. They cut Kenny out, so it became a sham. If they'd left him in there, you'd still be talking about how great it was.

If they had left Kenny in there and interviewed some of the more serious people working on the case, perhaps the movie would not have tanked like it did. And several people were cut from the film, not just my part. The critics panned the movie and it was a complete loser at the box office. Uh, huh. I am really believing you on that one. Or maybe not. B) You need to check in at the Reality Hotel. 

Quote

"DB Confusion

This was enjoyable at best, ridiculous at worst and falls somewhere in the middle, hence my score of 5. More like 4+, but I digress. As some other reviewers mentioned the story of Bob / Barbra was by far the most absurd and should not have been included. The man and wife who tell the story said Barb got very agitated when he said "oh your DB Cooper" but then at some future point in time still allowed him to comb her hair, put sunglasses on and take her picture to show the resemblance to Cooper, a picture that was then destroyed? Not buying it. The niece's story was comprised of suppressed memories, so I do not find them credible..."
 
Quote

 

  • Gross worldwide
    • $4,218 <<<<<<< Not too good there Parrot. They paid me almost half that much just to agree to appear. Which means the movie was a complete loser and Minnow Films will probably never hand Dower another budget again. Indie films made by kids have done better. 

See detailed box office info on IMDbPro

 

I think that pretty much says it all. What I should have done is to have watched Dower's previous movie, My Scientology Movie, before agreeing to appear. After I saw the film, I was glad they cut me out. I wanted no part of it, and for about the same reason as I turned down the extension to the movie option on KC's story with those guys in Los Angeles. After several thousand dollars in payments to me, and three years...all they came up with was a horrid script that sounded like a ten year old wrote the thing. I told them they could keep their money for the following year, and let the contract expire. I am now working on one of my own using Celtx software. 

The thing I dislike the most is that Dower lied to people and said he was trying to solve the case, when in reality he was just going for the Cooper Vortex angle all along. All those people, all that travel, all those expenses...and the movie grosses a pitiful four thousand bucks. LOL I got more than that from the guys in LA over that three year period. 

No big deal, but I've noticed that the only time you show up here at Dropzone is to hack on me for something or other. Many times without knowing the facts, or what the heck you are talking about. It's okay with me, but maybe you should do your research better. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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(edited)

NOTICE:  We have now CLOSED new applications to attend the Cooper/UFO party. No more apps will be accepted. Some changes to the main AB website and other informational outlets on the event have been modified. I hope you wish us luck, and if you don't...that's okay as well. Anyone not on the attendance list will be turned away, so please don't try driving to hell and gone just to have to turn around and go all the way back. It's a long, dusty road back to the main highway. ¬¬

I promise everyone there will be a YouTube video coming afterwards anyway. Some of the fun, and none of the heavy travel involved. :handok:

(I was going to allow apps up until Wednesday or so...but then I started getting some suspicious apps by email today. Either their email addresses didn't make sense, or they refused to answer my responses. I decided to shut down further attendance to just the people we have now. We will probably max out anyway.) 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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