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23 hours ago, Para-DZ said:

Chaucer- but you are being argumentative. That’s what you do. Do you think people can’t figure that out by reading your posts on here and the DB Cooper Forum? 

No, I am simply respectfully disagreeing with someone’s conclusions. My beliefs and theories on this case have been very consistent throughout. If I was being “argumentative”, then I would argue with everyone about everything. That’s not the case. 

You clearly have a personal issue with me. Whatever...

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On 6/22/2021 at 12:40 PM, FLYJACK said:

Of course it is imprecise... that isn't even debatable.

grayoscillations.jpeg.e87a229a42a849286775166bd6da3322.jpeg.da685353af91bf5199cbf79118581ee1.jpeg

 

The "identical" results of the sled test don't support your claim... 

The statements of the crew don't support your claim...

Your claim is conjecture. Nothing wrong with conjecture but that is what it is.

 

Is it possible the money landed on the banks of the Columbia, sure anything is "possible" but it is unlikely and requires a rejection of evidence that Cooper did. It is even possible dropped money could have fallen off the stairs after Cooper jumped,,, there is no evidence to support the claim that Cooper landed in the Columbia or on its banks.

All of this is conjecture. If any of us had proof of our claims, we would be on a book tour and appearing on Good Morning America rather than posting online.

My theory doesn’t require a rejection of evidence. Rather, the evidence suggests Cooper jumped later than 8:12. The money find on Tena Bar suggest the money ended up in the Columbia at some point. Kaye’s diatom research suggests it ended up there in spring time which is flood season. Taking all of those things into account, I theorize that Cooper and/or the money ended up near the north bank of the Columbia and several months later was transported via flood waters to Tena Bar - likely using river debris such as a brand or log as the vehicle. 

This theory accounts for all of the known evidence without rejecting any. 

Can I PROVE this? Of course not. Am I trying to? Of course. But that’s the story with everyone else in the Vortex too. 

 

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14 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Yes, it WAS reported. By Bill Rataczak. He said something on the radio when this happened. It is in the files. I don't know the exact words he used, but it went something like this:  "I think our friend has taken leave of us..."

Someone will know the exact words and source, but this information has been available for quite a while. 

There is a second source, and that was Rataczak's interview with Skipp Porteous. The question from Porteous was whether the flight crew knew when Cooper jumped, and where he may have landed:

(My highlighting of the final sentence.)

Or as Rataczak said later in the interview:

 

His statement is not in any of the official documentation such as the 302 or transcripts. It’s anecdotal. Moreover, if that statement WAS made, we don’t know WHEN it was made. There’s no time stamp attached to it, and that is the key. 

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2 hours ago, Chaucer said:

All of this is conjecture. If any of us had proof of our claims, we would be on a book tour and appearing on Good Morning America rather than posting online.

My theory doesn’t require a rejection of evidence. Rather, the evidence suggests Cooper jumped later than 8:12. The money find on Tena Bar suggest the money ended up in the Columbia at some point. Kaye’s diatom research suggests it ended up there in spring time which is flood season. Taking all of those things into account, I theorize that Cooper and/or the money ended up near the north bank of the Columbia and several months later was transported via flood waters to Tena Bar - likely using river debris such as a brand or log as the vehicle. 

This theory accounts for all of the known evidence without rejecting any. 

Can I PROVE this? Of course not. Am I trying to? Of course. But that’s the story with everyone else in the Vortex too. 

 

Of course you are rejecting evidence. You are rejecting the FBI LZ that they concluded 50 years ago from more evidence and immediate access to fresh witnesses than you have.

 

..not all conjecture is equal. Some is backed by evidence and some by little or nothing. Sometimes we have no evidence so conjecture is all we have.

My point is YOUR argument is not backed by evidence and is PURE conjecture. The FBI analysis was based on evidence and witnesses. If you want to reject it you need alot more than pure conjecture.

 

You are rejecting evidence and IMO misinterpreting some.

The crew stated that they believed 8:10/11 certainly before 8:15.

The lights of Portland. That is not over the Columbia.. that is N of Vancouver.

The sled test matched exactly. 

FDR and other timing data.

If Cooper landed next to the Columbia, higher probability a body or a chute would be found.

Instrument oscillations were caused by pressure changes, Anderson said the "PRESSURE BUMP" was the largest by far... so that means there were many. There were many because they were gauge oscillations which increased in frequency and magnitude after weight left the stairs. Pressure changes cause oscillations, the "PRESSURE BUMP" was just the biggest one of a series of pressure changes that was felt...

When the crew reported oscillations, they were reporting a marked increase, prior oscillations were minor. That increase matched the sled test.

To completely reject the evidence and FBI's work without any evidence is a high bar...

Everybody has at some entertained the idea that Cooper landed in the Columbia this isn't new, but there was no evidence for it.. Now, the diatoms indicate the money didn't go straight into the Columbia so the theory shifts to near the Columbia.

 

The evidence supports the FBI's LZ...

One plausible theory is that at least one bundle left the open stairs after Cooper jumped but there are many other theories.

 

My conclusions..

FBI flightpath is correct with a 1 mile and 1 minute error. The map is a point plot, it can be smoothed out.

Cooper landed in the FBI LZ at 8:10/11 to 8:15 latest. 

The money entered the Columbia as a single rubber banded bundle of packets in the Spring.

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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(edited)
2 hours ago, Chaucer said:

No, I am simply respectfully disagreeing with someone’s conclusions. My beliefs and theories on this case have been very consistent throughout. If I was being “argumentative”, then I would argue with everyone about everything. That’s not the case. 

You clearly have a personal issue with me. Whatever...

My conclusion is that the FBI got the LZ right,,,

You need to have evidence that proves they got it wrong.

 

An example...

The FBI made a public statement about Hahneman that would show he couldn't be Cooper.. I found three witnesses and info that proves the statement made by the FBI was 100% false. Was it a mistake or intentional misinformation from a higher level,, I don't know..  I suspect it was cover from the State Department.

Edited by FLYJACK

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3 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Of course you are rejecting evidence. You are rejecting the FBI LZ that they concluded 50 years ago from more evidence and immediate access to fresh witnesses than you have.

 

..not all conjecture is equal. Some is backed by evidence and some by little or nothing. Sometimes we have no evidence so conjecture is all we have.

My point is YOUR argument is not backed by evidence and is PURE conjecture. The FBI analysis was based on evidence and witnesses. If you want to reject it you need alot more than pure conjecture.

 

You are rejecting evidence and IMO misinterpreting some.

The crew stated that they believed 8:10/11 certainly before 8:15.

The lights of Portland. That is not over the Columbia.. that is N of Vancouver.

The sled test matched exactly. 

FDR and other timing data.

If Cooper landed next to the Columbia, higher probability a body or a chute would be found.

Instrument oscillations were caused by pressure changes, Anderson said the "PRESSURE BUMP" was the largest by far... so that means there were many. There were many because they were gauge oscillations which increased in frequency and magnitude after weight left the stairs. Pressure changes cause oscillations, the "PRESSURE BUMP" was just the biggest one of a series of pressure changes that was felt...

When the crew reported oscillations, they were reporting a marked increase, prior oscillations were minor. That increase matched the sled test.

To completely reject the evidence and FBI's work without any evidence is a high bar...

Everybody has at some entertained the idea that Cooper landed in the Columbia this isn't new, but there was no evidence for it.. Now, the diatoms indicate the money didn't go straight into the Columbia so the theory shifts to near the Columbia.

 

The evidence supports the FBI's LZ...

One plausible theory is that at least one bundle left the open stairs after Cooper jumped but there are many other theories.

 

My conclusions..

FBI flightpath is correct with a 1 mile and 1 minute error. The map is a point plot, it can be smoothed out.

Cooper landed in the FBI LZ at 8:10/11 to 8:15 latest. 

The money entered the Columbia as a single rubber banded bundle of packets in the Spring.

 

If disputing the FBI LZ is rejecting evidence then the FBI is also guilty of that. Larry Carr also suggested the LZ was farther south. Also, the FBI’s LZ was based on their misinterpretation of the “oscillations” vs. the “pressure bump”. 
 

They incorrectly assumed that the jump occurred at 8:11 when the oscillations were reported. That was incorrect. Thus, the LZ was wrong. Carr and others realized this later on.

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4 minutes ago, Chaucer said:

If disputing the FBI LZ is rejecting evidence then the FBI is also guilty of that. Larry Carr also suggested the LZ was farther south. Also, the FBI’s LZ was based on their misinterpretation of the “oscillations” vs. the “pressure bump”. 
 

They incorrectly assumed that the jump occurred at 8:11 when the oscillations were reported. That was incorrect. Thus, the LZ was wrong. Carr and others realized this later on.

Carr expressed his opinion, he has been wrong on many things.. Don't use Carr's opinion as an authority on anything,, what evidence did he have,,, none.

Suggesting the possibility that Cooper jumped later isn't a problem, everyone has considered it. 

There is just no evidence for it and the evidence indicates the FBI got it right.

 

Your claim that the FBI incorrectly assumed the jump occurred at (about) 8:11 is not backed by evidence. It is PURE conjecture with NO evidence. 

 

 

 

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Looks like I still have a stalker over at Shutter's forum.. long after I've left.

The guy can't stop talking about me...

He's always been mad because I caught him making up Cooper evidence just to win a debate.

Your 15 minutes expired long ago Georger, you are irrelevant and toxic.

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6 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Looks like I still have a stalker over at Shutter's forum.. long after I've left.

The guy can't stop talking about me...

He's always been mad because I caught him making up Cooper evidence just to win a debate.

Your 15 minutes expired long ago Georger, you are irrelevant and toxic.

No worries, FJ. He does the same thing to me over at Mountain News, only he uses phony identities (allowed by Bruce Smith) to do so. They aren't fooling anybody. Years ago, he did it here at DZ until they banned him, and on certain outside articles done by different people on the Cooper case. He was foolish enough to use the same insults on me that he did on other sites. That's one way Greg figured it all out. He even tried calling me once at near midnight, the same day DZ banned him. Been there, done that. ¬¬

Chaucer: You cherry-picked my post regarding whether or not the crew of 305 realized the moment that Cooper jumped. You skipped that part where I quoted Rataczak from his interview with Skipp Porteous. He definitely made it plain that the Big Pressure Bump, the one that made their ears pop on the flight deck...was the one caused by the stairs rebounding when Cooper jumped. It was pretty plain they knew when Cooper jumped. Or as he said in the interview after that part...

Quote

"We know WHEN Cooper jumped. We just don't know where he LANDED."

 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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(edited)

I want to make a couple of quick observations on the jump point and where Cooper ended up. First off...(Chaucer) you can't be right and wrong at the same time. They KNOW when Cooper jumped, as you say, within about a mile all around. But that didn't happen over the Columbia, so your theory that one bundle of the cash plopped into the river naturally is damn near impossible. The flight was not over the Columbia River, and miles north of it when Cooper jumped. You cannot have it both ways here. 

If the money went into the Columbia, this ONE bundle, it did not happen by falling out of the sky. It was done purposely LATER. I still say that this was probably done AFTER November 24, 1976. All the news media, TV and the local papers, were doing lead-up stories prior to that date as it approached. They were saying that Cooper would be free and clear because of the Statute of Limitations...and no one at the FBI was disputing that. In fact, they didn't say anything at all about it. So everyone assumed that this was the way it was going to go, and some news sources and TV guys started saying Cooper might go public after that date since they thought he couldn't be touched. 

If you assume that Cooper saw these things on TV and in the papers, you can assume he thought it was true as well. But then the FBI did an end-around on him down in Portland and managed to get that John Doe warrant on the very last day. I have suggested that Cooper....once he heard what they did....would have been crushed, disappointed, and then maybe fearful. Now they will be looking for him the rest of his life. All they have to do is keep renewing the warrant, which they did. (I think it's every two years or something) So maybe Cooper decided to try taking things into his own hands and throwing off the FBI with a money drop somewhere...I guess the Columbia...and if this was the case....it WORKED. After the money find at Tina Bar, the FBI started saying they thought Cooper died in the jump and they started cutting back the budget for the investigation. 

EDIT: Non-Cooper But Might Be Interesting Department

The Congressional Report on UFO's is coming out today, maybe tomorrow, but no later publicly than June 30. 

Due to the sudden surge in interest for our Skywatch Party in July, (most of the new people inquiring are now coming publicly, rather than from SUFON, 'Seattle UFO Network') I have decided to download the entire Congressional report it its entirety, convert it to a high-definition setting PDF, and make it available to the public. 

I'm not doing this because I think the public can't get it elsewhere. I'm doing it because I urged SUFON members to download it to their tablets for table discussions on the document at the Skywatch Party. It will also be available for download at the Skywatch page at AB of Seattle, for anyone who is attending. I told people already coming through Meetup or Facebook to stick that document on their tablets...and then bring their tablets WITH them for these table discussions. Sure, I would love to have a print copy of the entire document, but these things sometimes run a couple of thousand pages, so going PDF is probably the best approach. If everyone attending has a solid copy on their tablets, table discussions are made much easier. 

It turns out that associating with SUFON, and holding an event such as we are planning, and that this event comes shortly after the release of the Congressional report was probably one of the best ideas I've ever had. It's getting to the point where I might have to say we are 'full up' on attendance. As the report approaches, people are hearing about this party more than I thought they would, and now many of them want to make the trip up to Greenwater and attend. Three weeks ago I wasn't sure how many we would get. Now I think we will reach the max (75 people) easily. I think I created a monster here. I was going to bring just ONE long fold up table. Now I am bringing two. 

Grapes.jpg

In the interest of transparency and truth, I am going to tell everyone something else. 

If you have any funny ideas out there in Cooperland about interfering with the Skywatch event, let me clue you Cooper Haters in on a couple of things before you do. 

If I find out anyone is doing that, I will create another PDF, one laying out a few facts, and have that sent out to everyone and anyone involved in CC21. I mean the sponsors, the guest speakers, the Kiggins Theater staff, the press in Vancouver and Portland. EVERYONE. And it will not be flattering. We will drop the bricks on you like Dorothy's house dropping on the Wicked Witch of the East. 

I will remind you that we offered to support CC21 both online and financially, and so far, those offers have been met with silence. (Which in our opinion is really dumb, but that's your right and okay.) It's a live and let live thing now with us regarding both Skywatch and CC21. We may even post some positive articles about it anyway over the coming months and urge people to attend, whether you want that or not. We have nothing against a successful convention. Nothing. 

Just don't mess with the Prime Directive, or we can be a very formidable enemy. We don't want to BE your enemy. We want to support you whether you acknowledge that support or not. And since you plan to ask for more than twenty bucks a ticket, you need all the help you can get. What is good for you, is also good for us. 

That, my friends, was a warning. And at the same time, it was also a positive offer. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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20 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Carr expressed his opinion, he has been wrong on many things.. Don't use Carr's opinion as an authority on anything,, what evidence did he have,,, none.

Suggesting the possibility that Cooper jumped later isn't a problem, everyone has considered it. 

There is just no evidence for it and the evidence indicates the FBI got it right.

 

Your claim that the FBI incorrectly assumed the jump occurred at (about) 8:11 is not backed by evidence. It is PURE conjecture with NO evidence. 

 

 

 

FJ,

Look at the 302s. There is constant conflation between the pressure bump and the oscillations. The LZ is based on the report of the oscillations not the pressure bump. No time stamp for the pressure bump exists in the official documents.

There is a great deal of evidence that the jump occurred later than is generally accepted including the money find and crew statements.

8 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

I want to make a couple of quick observations on the jump point and where Cooper ended up. First off...(Chaucer) you can't be right and wrong at the same time. They KNOW when Cooper jumped, as you say, within about a mile all around. But that didn't happen over the Columbia, so your theory that one bundle of the cash plopped into the river naturally is damn near impossible. The flight was not over the Columbia River, and miles north of it when Cooper jumped. You cannot have it both ways here. 

If the money went into the Columbia, this ONE bundle, it did not happen by falling out of the sky. It was done purposely LATER. I still say that this was probably done AFTER November 24, 1976. All the news media, TV and the local papers, were doing lead-up stories prior to that date as it approached. They were saying that Cooper would be free and clear because of the Statute of Limitations...and no one at the FBI was disputing that. In fact, they didn't say anything at all about it. So everyone assumed that this was the way it was going to go, and some news sources and TV guys started saying Cooper might go public after that date since they thought he couldn't be touched. 

If you assume that Cooper saw these things on TV and in the papers, you can assume he thought it was true as well. But then the FBI did an end-around on him down in Portland and managed to get that John Doe warrant on the very last day. I have suggested that Cooper....once he heard what they did....would have been crushed, disappointed, and then maybe fearful. Now they will be looking for him the rest of his life. All they have to do is keep renewing the warrant, which they did. (I think it's every two years or something) So maybe Cooper decided to try taking things into his own hands and throwing off the FBI with a money drop somewhere...I guess the Columbia...and if this was the case....it WORKED. After the money find at Tina Bar, the FBI started saying they thought Cooper died in the jump and they started cutting back the budget for the investigation. 

EDIT: Non-Cooper But Might Be Interesting Department

The Congressional Report on UFO's is coming out today, maybe tomorrow, but no later publicly than June 30. 

Due to the sudden surge in interest for our Skywatch Party in July, (most of the new people inquiring are now coming publicly, rather than from SUFON, 'Seattle UFO Network') I have decided to download the entire Congressional report it its entirety, convert it to a high-definition setting PDF, and make it available to the public. 

I'm not doing this because I think the public can't get it elsewhere. I'm doing it because I urged SUFON members to download it to their tablets for table discussions on the document at the Skywatch Party. It will also be available for download at the Skywatch page at AB of Seattle, for anyone who is attending. I told people already coming through Meetup or Facebook to stick that document on their tablets...and then bring their tablets WITH them for these table discussions. Sure, I would love to have a print copy of the entire document, but these things sometimes run a couple of thousand pages, so going PDF is probably the best approach. If everyone attending has a solid copy on their tablets, table discussions are made much easier. 

It turns out that associating with SUFON, and holding an event such as we are planning, and that this event comes shortly after the release of the Congressional report was probably one of the best ideas I've ever had. It's getting to the point where I might have to say we are 'full up' on attendance. As the report approaches, people are hearing about this party more than I thought they would, and now many of them want to make the trip up to Greenwater and attend. Three weeks ago I wasn't sure how many we would get. Now I think we will reach the max (75 people) easily. I think I created a monster here. I was going to bring just ONE long fold up table. Now I am bringing two. 

Grapes.jpg

In the interest of transparency and truth, I am going to tell everyone something else. 

If you have any funny ideas out there in Cooperland about interfering with the Skywatch event, let me clue you Cooper Haters in on a couple of things before you do. 

If I find out anyone is doing that, I will create another PDF, one laying out a few facts, and have that sent out to everyone and anyone involved in CC21. I mean the sponsors, the guest speakers, the Kiggins Theater staff, the press in Vancouver and Portland. EVERYONE. And it will not be flattering. We will drop the bricks on you like Dorothy's house dropping on the Wicked Witch of the East. 

I will remind you that we offered to support CC21 both online and financially, and so far, those offers have been met with silence. (Which in our opinion is really dumb, but that's your right and okay.) It's a live and let live thing now with us regarding both Skywatch and CC21. We may even post some positive articles about it anyway over the coming months and urge people to attend, whether you want that or not. We have nothing against a successful convention. Nothing. 

Just don't mess with the Prime Directive, or we can be a very formidable enemy. We don't want to BE your enemy. We want to support you whether you acknowledge that support or not. And since you plan to ask for more than twenty bucks a ticket, you need all the help you can get. What is good for you, is also good for us. 

That, my friends, was a warning. And at the same time, it was also a positive offer. 

If they KNOW when Cooper jumped then they aren’t saying because there is no documentation of when the pressure bump occurred and the crew has never given an exact time. Full stop.

That leaves open the possibility that the jump was closer to the river.

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1 hour ago, Chaucer said:

FJ,

Look at the 302s. There is constant conflation between the pressure bump and the oscillations. The LZ is based on the report of the oscillations not the pressure bump. No time stamp for the pressure bump exists in the official documents.

There is a great deal of evidence that the jump occurred later than is generally accepted including the money find and crew statements.

If they KNOW when Cooper jumped then they aren’t saying because there is no documentation of when the pressure bump occurred and the crew has never given an exact time. Full stop.

That leaves open the possibility that the jump was closer to the river.

 

Wrong, the crew stated they believed 8:10/11. Certainly before 8:15.

The crew said they could see the lights of Portland, that isn't over the Columbia.

The "pressure bump" was a BIGGER oscillation that was felt. That is why they use them interchangeably. 

No time stamp exists for the "bump" because it was the reported oscillations..

 

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1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

 

Wrong, the crew stated they believed 8:10/11. Certainly before 8:15.

The crew said they could see the lights of Portland, that isn't over the Columbia.

The "pressure bump" was a BIGGER oscillation that was felt. That is why they use them interchangeably. 

No time stamp exists for the "bump" because it was the reported oscillations..

 

Sigh.

The 8:10/8:11 time is from the report of the oscillations NOT the pressure bump. The time of the pressure bump is not reported nor recorded.
 

Im not saying it was OVER the Columbia but it was near enough to the river to end up on the northern bank.

The ability for the plane to be near the north side of the Columbia exists. 

 

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(edited)
48 minutes ago, Chaucer said:

Sigh.

The 8:10/8:11 time is from the report of the oscillations NOT the pressure bump. The time of the pressure bump is not reported nor recorded.
 

Im not saying it was OVER the Columbia but it was near enough to the river to end up on the northern bank.

The ability for the plane to be near the north side of the Columbia exists. 

 

Winds were from SE near Portland, to land on the North side he would have had to jump South side unless a no pull. Something would have been found there.

 

Wrong, the time is from the crew...  those oscillations ended with a BIG oscillation felt in the cabin aka pressure bump. If they knew the pressure bump was a second event and was 7-8 minutes later they would have acknowledged that at the time.

crewcertain815.jpeg.63f4f831045c2167b577ea5e95e4e8a4.jpeg

 

982629637_fluctuationsfeltFBI23113.jpeg.e9d4649ec18524851fb269dc2e6dc8cb.jpeg

Edited by FLYJACK

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On 6/24/2021 at 9:27 AM, Chaucer said:

No, I am simply respectfully disagreeing with someone’s conclusions. My beliefs and theories on this case have been very consistent throughout. If I was being “argumentative”, then I would argue with everyone about everything. That’s not the case. 

You clearly have a personal issue with me. Whatever...

Chaucer getting owned. 

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45 minutes ago, Coopericane said:

Didn't Rataczak actually state during the flight when he thought Cooper jumped? I recall a report of him saying something along the lines of "our friend may have just left us" or something like that. Not sure what jump time that was associated with though.

Yes, Rat has confirmed that publicly but it has never been officially released with any timestamp.

This is the closest,,, Rat...  "ears to pop" (pressure bump) ... That's just the way it was at 8:10.

1755802401_fluctuationsfeltFBI23113.jpeg.178b454d3930a3ce0a5f018da713156e.jpeg

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(edited)
8 hours ago, Andrade1812 said:

I was willing to push the jump zone very far south until I saw one of the reports that Fly should be able to find of Rataczak's ears being popped by the jump, and that was associated with the 8:10--8:11 time frame.

This is also my opinion. 810-813 on the jump, with 810 and some seconds the most likely. You have to (also) look at the practical side of the matter. Look where the initial search took place. That was done in the Ariel area, and that is miles from the river. This flight was being tracked by at least three radar sources, (SAGE/ATC/chase jets) and the guy coordinating a lot of these things and later working on the flight path map was none other than Paul Soderlind and his team from NWA. 

Soderlind is one of the most famous and loved guys to ever come out of NWA. Some of the concepts he created regarding passenger jet traffic are still in use today. He's in the Minnesota Aviation Hall of Fame. Plain and simple, he was simply one of the smartest guys to ever sit behind the controls of a jet aircraft. And remember that NWA and ATC were communicating with the flight crew during the hijacking, and during the subsequent flight to Reno. 

To be fair to Chaucer, the initial searching by just the local cops concentrated on an area between Pigeon Springs (slightly NW of Lake Merwin) down to an unincorporated area called Crawford south of there, but no further south. Crawford is about 8-9 miles from the Columbia River at least. And the true jump point is somewhere between those two places. There are a couple of pieces of evidence to support the idea that Cooper landed a bit further south of Ariel than was originally thought, but not THAT far south. Not as far as the river. Those SE winds running that night would blow him NW anyway, since he was using a chute that had little control, basically your paratrooper or jet pilot bailout rig. You go where the wind takes you, and that night the wind was taking you in NW direction. 

One bit of evidence is the still-unexplained 'Amboy Chute' which was discovered SE of Ariel between Green and Bald Mountains, according to FBI agent Larry Carr. The other, and perhaps more significant evidence, was the store break-in that happened near the RR tracks on the night of the hijacking. Who breaks into a store on Thanksgiving in the early morning and takes only cigarettes, a pair of gloves, and some road food? (I think beef jerky was mentioned) It wasn't a hobo or a bum because the trains don't slow down enough in that area to do that. If it was a local, he would have known what was in that store and targeted items that were actually worth money. This was a theft of necessity, not one of monetary gain, and I highly suspect Cooper was behind it. He was probably following the tracks south, (to avoid the cops looking for him on the main county roads) saw the store nearby, was hungry and out of smokes, and did a quick break-in. He couldn't have been in there very long, taking only those items. 

An overview map with some key points is shown below. Click the image to view full size, and use your back arrow to return. EDIT:  I referred to the bridge as the Heisson River Bridge. My bad. It is simply the 'Heisson Bridge'. Crosses over the Lewis River there a short distance north of the store. The RR tracks are north and south at Heisson, but north of the store they swing to the east and cross the river, then continue on to Amboy, I believe. My best guess is that Cooper either headed south and crossed the Lewis at the Heisson Bridge, or he headed into Amboy and caught the RR tracks there. I think it is more likely that he just headed south, crossed at the bridge, found the store along his way, did a quick break in, and then went onto the RR tracks and kept heading toward Vancouver. Fifty years ago, that entire area was much more heavily wooded. Today much of it is developed. But back then, once Cooper reached the RR tracks he could easily dodge any searches from the main roads. On the night of the hijacking, the Clark County cops were running up and down the main roads from Amboy to maybe Battleground. What they should have done is to simply park their cars near every RR crossing, leave a window down to hear better, turn off all their lights, and just wait for Cooper to come along in the middle of the night.

HeissonStoreOverview.jpg

BELOW:  A second picture with some notes showing the location of the Heisson bridge, the RR tracks leading into Vancouver from Amboy, and their relationship with the location of the store. 

 

HeissonCloseUp.jpg

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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Oh my God...now the nine page preliminary UAP report comes out, and no one is believing anything in it except that the DOD says the UAP's are a security threat. But they lean toward some type of newly-developed technology, possibly by a foreign government. 

Really? 

Uh, okay. Here's the problem with that theory. Objects observed doing similar maneuvers as the recent UAP's filmed by military pilots and ships...well, those things go back at least sixty years. Whatever these objects are, they have demonstrated similar movements deemed impossible....for a LONG time now. They are not 'recent' technology. 

I received another 16 notices in my email box today from people inquiring about the July 9-11 Skywatch Party. Suddenly, everybody and his brother want to show up for that one. I told people at Facebook today that we're providing a PA system, and a smart TV to present your theories. Also they can use the media projector with the ten-foot wide screen. 

"Help yourself..." I said. B) 

I tried to be gracious to Bruce Smith and open a path for him in case he wanted to attend, since I know he is a big UFO buff and is probably wishing he could meet all the serious UFO folks at the party...maybe have some fun and present his stuff...but he didn't even open the email. At least I tried. We are providing a special area for displays of books and other material for several of the people showing up and the folks coming to this one are from all over the state and probably would have bought copies of his book. Now just myself and one other person will be doing anything Cooper-related. The rest belongs to the UFO people. :handok:No worries. We will do video and still shots aplenty for a future presentation on YouTube and elsewhere. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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Robert99 over at the DB Cooper Forum says congratulations to Bruce Smith....for burning bridges both behind him, and in front of him. I have to agree. Smith's policy of continuing to allow attacks on other Cooper folk on the same article where he and Eric Ulis promote the upcoming CC21 convention...in my humble opinion...will just hurt attendance to the event. Bruce now becomes the biggest hate-monger in Cooperland. 

Personally, I don't think Ramtha would like what he's doing. B)

Think about something for a moment, Cooper fans. What if Bruce's actions resulted in Eric finding out that he can't sell enough tickets to make CC21 worthwhile, simply because Bruce is addicted to his anti-Blevins, false-identity, strawman crap on his WordPress? And as a result, Eric decided to say the heck with the whole thing? 

This is a real possibility. And it would be Bruce's fault all the way. On a side note, potential TV producers and movie makers often check out what you stick on the internet...and in Bruce's case that material he allows isn't going to instill confidence. He's not hurting me personally, or affecting sales at Adventure Books. The people who buy our books buy them 99% or so wholesale, through the Ingram database. We are not retail, and Amazon accounts for a miniscule fraction of sales. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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On 6/26/2021 at 12:00 AM, RobertMBlevins said:

It wasn't a hobo or a bum because the trains don't slow down enough in that area to do tha

I don't believe this statement to be correct. I believe that the trains did in fact slow down in this area. In fact, I believe that the trains actually came to a complete stop while loading and unloading cars and such.

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2 hours ago, haggarknew said:

I don't believe this statement to be correct. I believe that the trains did in fact slow down in this area. In fact, I believe that the trains actually came to a complete stop while loading and unloading cars and such.

(Regarding the speed of trains between Amboy and south of the Heisson area.)

Well...after living in, and traveling around Washington state for just over fifty years...I can assure you that the freight trains out in the country back then went VERY fast. So fast, in fact that occasionally people foolish enough to walk the tracks and not keep out a sharp eye could be caught by them and killed. Our old farm in Sumner was bordered on the back side by RR tracks. My brother and I watched them fly past all the time. It would take them at least a half mile to come to a stop, but since we were out in the semi-country area, they never did. Back in 1971 the area between Amboy and Vancouver was definitely rural. About the only place they slowed down was when they came to a railroad yard. They didn't even slow down much approaching RR crossings, unless they were coming into a town or city. People and cars were expected to either pay attention to the signals, or if it was an un-signaled crossing, you had better take a good look first. 

And no tagging of the trains with spray paint back then, either. None of that fancy art stuff. If you tried that one, the RR 'dicks' would beat the shit out of you. :/ 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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