georger 230 #63776 August 31 (edited) 7 hours ago, Divalent said: Seems like something you could test. Mock up a replica, and drop it in a (very) remote area. Someone could try it ... Edited August 31 by georger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 230 #63777 August 31 (edited) 14 hours ago, georger said: Someone could try it ... Kaye and Alan Stone, a materials destruction expert, looked for signs of impact in the bills they examined. And found no signs of impact. Since the money was tied to Cooper, according to Tina, both landed. That eliminates the FBI claim that Cooper died in the drop . Cooper is now alive and free to travel . . Edited August 31 by georger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 47 #63778 September 1 11 hours ago, georger said: Kaye and Alan Stone, a materials destruction expert, looked for signs of impact in the bills they examined. And found no signs of impact. Since the money was tied to Cooper, according to Tina, both landed. That eliminates the FBI claim that Cooper died in the drop . Cooper is now alive and free to travel . . Georger, you are jumping to conclusions here. What you have stated doesn't support your claims. You just need to stick to facts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cola 49 #63779 September 1 22 hours ago, georger said: Kaye and Alan Stone, a materials destruction expert, looked for signs of impact in the bills they examined. And found no signs of impact. Since the money was tied to Cooper, according to Tina, both landed. That eliminates the FBI claim that Cooper died in the drop . This is the first I've head of this, but you've been in the Vortex since the beginning so can you put more context behind this... Was it a cursory evaluation or something more in-depth? My bias says the evidence of this would be so obscure and finessed to as to be presently indeterminate given the decomposed state of the bills and sample size. However, Tom has displayed in the past a slide on the bills orientation /misalignment within the packets. Is the alignment a sign or impact or settlement? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cola 49 #63780 September 1 11 hours ago, Robert99 said: You just need to stick to facts. Speaking of sticking to facts, it is a matter of fact. Kenny Christiansen was not Cooper. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 47 #63781 September 1 1 hour ago, Cola said: Speaking of sticking to facts, it is a matter of fact. Kenny Christiansen was not Cooper. Cola, you are 100 percent right. Kenny Christiansen was not Cooper. And it is highly unlikely that any suspect named on this forum or elsewhere was Cooper either. 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 230 #63782 September 1 (edited) 3 hours ago, Cola said: This is the first I've head of this, but you've been in the Vortex since the beginning so can you put more context behind this... Was it a cursory evaluation or something more in-depth? My bias says the evidence of this would be so obscure and finessed to as to be presently indeterminate given the decomposed state of the bills and sample size. However, Tom has displayed in the past a slide on the bills orientation /misalignment within the packets. Is the alignment a sign or impact or settlement? Lets let Tom address this. I think he will if asked ... the alignments Tom documented are minor ... except for age and weathering, these bills and their alignments look fresh as if just set out by a bank teller ... no evidence of a shock wave here. No Cooper blood and guts or body fluids ... ! We know the money was tied to Cooper in some fashion, so what happens to the money happens to Cooper until ground zero. From then forward it could be another story. As long as Cooper and the money are together, whatever happens to one happens to the other ... Cooper has only a few hours to address the strange sight of a guy with a bag of money tied to his waste dangling, running, doing something ? You dont see that every day! He is close to civilisation, the rail lines, and possibly close to where hobos shelter and roam along with their barking dogs ... what does he do and where does he find shelter, in a hurry ? Daylight is fast approaching . . . Edited September 1 by georger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cola 49 #63783 September 3 On 9/1/2024 at 5:58 PM, Robert99 said: Cola, you are 100 percent right. Kenny Christiansen was not Cooper. And it is highly unlikely that any suspect named on this forum or elsewhere was Cooper either. Robert – I appreciate your honesty, and I respect deeply that you are open enough to say this. I have come to this moment of letting go of my own candidate once, so we share in the blessing of having earned a cynicism towards all candidates. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cola 49 #63784 September 3 On 9/1/2024 at 6:37 PM, georger said: Lets let Tom address this. I think he will if asked . You have his number, but my best guess is that in his not addressing it, he has addressed it. If there was some solid science to this then he would have told us and this would be our known already. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 230 #63785 September 3 (edited) 6 hours ago, Cola said: You have his number, but my best guess is that in his not addressing it, he has addressed it. If there was some solid science to this then he would have told us and this would be our known already. I am not making this up. It was something Tom and Alan did in passing, but did not mention or connect. No Biggie. Beyond that Tom apparently forgot about it and made no connection btwn the state of the money and Cooper's fate. Except, just about everyone but Flyjack accepts Tina's last report that Cooper had the money bag tied around his waste ??? A five year old could make the connection given the facts! Here are the remains of a person who has fallen just 3000ft in a plane crash.This is as real as it gets. No explanation required! Now do you believe in the physics of falling objects tied to each other? Sluggo suggested Carr start digging up anonymous grave sites in the Orchards area! Edited September 3 by georger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cola 49 #63786 September 4 On 9/3/2024 at 3:16 AM, georger said: I am not making this up. It was something Tom and Alan did in passing, but did not mention or connect. No Biggie. Beyond that Tom apparently forgot about it and made no connection btwn the state of the money and Cooper's fate. Except, just about everyone but Flyjack accepts Tina's last report that Cooper had the money bag tied around his waste ??? A five year old could make the connection given the facts! Cringe – G, My 5 year old imagination understood what you were alluding too and the potential outcome on the ransom. Yes, if that was indeed the fate of Cooper then contamination of the ransom by bodily fluids clearly fits under the bell curve of possibilities. In no way did I think you were making this up. I had no awareness of this till you brought it up and genuinely wanted to know how deep Tom and Alan had gone into this. I have not committed to memory how the 302's described looking into the ransom for Bodily fluids, but I'm fairly sure I read the Agency had looked at the ransom for that. I'll give the 302's a glance latter this week, unless your have a ref handy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 230 #63787 September 4 (edited) 2 hours ago, Cola said: Cringe – G, My 5 year old imagination understood what you were alluding too and the potential outcome on the ransom. Yes, if that was indeed the fate of Cooper then contamination of the ransom by bodily fluids clearly fits under the bell curve of possibilities. In no way did I think you were making this up. I had no awareness of this till you brought it up and genuinely wanted to know how deep Tom and Alan had gone into this. I have not committed to memory how the 302's described looking into the ransom for Bodily fluids, but I'm fairly sure I read the Agency had looked at the ransom for that. I'll give the 302's a glance latter this week, unless your have a ref handy. I dont know of any 302 that mentions the Lab doing any serology on the Cooper money ... or anywhere else until dna testing is done in 2001 ? The cup is lost? etc ... I could be wrong .............. ? Except Dorwin says when they were setting up to excavate Tea Bar everyone was sensitive to the possibility of 'biological' materials turning up ... Edited September 4 by georger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cola 49 #63788 September 5 6 hours ago, georger said: The cup is lost? Unknown, but highly likley. Ref 302 pg DB-Cooper-11395 I'll take a glance for serology later. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 230 #63789 September 5 (edited) 1 hour ago, Cola said: Unknown, but highly likley. Ref 302 pg DB-Cooper-11395 I'll take a glance for serology later. Thanks! what Part and pg number ? Edited September 5 by georger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 230 #63790 September 6 D. B. Cooper and Flight 305: Fred Barnowski suspect eliminated .... 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cola 49 #63791 September 9 On 9/4/2024 at 7:24 PM, georger said: I dont know of any 302 that mentions the Lab doing any serology on the Cooper money ... or anywhere else until dna testing is done in 2001 ? The cup is lost? etc ... Looked back through 302 notes and the 302's a bit, the tie was originally looked at for bodily fluids and I did not come across anything mentioning an evaluation of the ransom for bodily fluids when found, just fingerprints. So my vague recall can be scratched out. The four Cups were from Part 41 - pdf pg 27, the DB pg is - 11395 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 230 #63792 September 11 (edited) Back to basics - How did the airport parking lot operate at the Portland Airport where Cooper arrived and purchased his ticket? Could a car be stored there or nearby for several days then picked up and driven away a day later, without anyone noticing or any human interaction? Likewise, how did the bus system operate? Did the FBI interview any of the people involved in these systems ? Edited September 11 by georger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 230 #63793 September 12 (edited) 13 hours ago, georger said: Back to basics - How did the airport parking lot operate at the Portland Airport where Cooper arrived and purchased his ticket? Could a car be stored there or nearby for several days then picked up and driven away a day later, without anyone noticing or any human interaction? Likewise, how did the bus system operate? Did the FBI interview any of the people involved in these systems ? Any 302s ? regarding the investigation of the period before Cooper boarded 305, and people the FBI interviewed in the Portland and other areas immediately after the hijacking, trying to find any connection to Cooper ... would be helpful. Did local law enforcement get involved in this investigation or interview people during this critical period? Somebody had to be wondering if Cooper would return to the Portland area, or was injured and dead (if he was as claimed) in some drop zone "somewhere". Was there any concern by law enforcement about where Cooper was after the hijacking? Were people in the Seattle area interviewed ? These issues are fundamental to solving the DB Cooper case. Cooper very likely did not die in the jump. He picked himself up with his money secure and he went somewhere and did something! Nine years later some of the money mysteriously turns up on Tena Bar. There has to be a connection between this and what Cooper did and where he was and went, etc., immediately after he landed. What intel. justified the massive search for Cooper in 1972, in the wrong area? Edited September 12 by georger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cola 49 #63794 September 12 (edited) 17 hours ago, georger said: Back to basics - How did the airport parking lot operate at the Portland Airport where Cooper arrived and purchased his ticket? Could a car be stored there or nearby for several days then picked up and driven away a day later, without anyone noticing or any human interaction? Likewise, how did the bus system operate? Did the FBI interview any of the people involved in these systems ? 302- part 18-DB pg 5477 part 66 - DB Pg 28201 302-Part 24- DB pg -4111 part-66-DB pg-28123 The ticket did not come under the control of the Portland office even though it was known by 7pm passenger Dan Cooper was the hijacker. Edited September 12 by Cola 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cola 49 #63795 September 12 (edited) 12 hours ago, georger said: What intel. justified the massive search for Cooper in 1972, in the wrong area? The initial justification was a combination of things, presumed 8:11 jump time, radar at 8:11, recording of the sound of the pressure bump, comments of - lights of Portland on the horizon, last point of contact at 8:05, estimate of oscillations a few minutes after last contact, wind direction and speed, estimates of canopy drift within pull ranges. I think the search was based on sound judgment at the time. Part of this is also show: this event captivated an audience and the response is to signal an overwhelming effort to help reinforce a low perception of success and reinforce deterrence. Deterrence is the primary objective of law. Investigation is secondary - the reactive element of the law when deterrence has failed. Prosecution/sentencing are tertiary and used to restore deterrence by reinforcing consequences and signaling a low probability of success to would be criminals. The search whether sound or not was necessary. Edited September 12 by Cola 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 230 #63796 September 12 53 minutes ago, Cola said: The initial justification was a combination of things, presumed 8:11 jump time, radar at 8:11, recording of the sound of the pressure bump, comments of - lights of Portland on the horizon, last point of contact at 8:05, estimate of oscillations a few minutes after last contact, wind direction and speed, estimates of canopy drift within pull ranges. I think the search was based on sound judgment at the time. Part of this is also show: this event captivated an audience and the response is to signal an overwhelming effort to help reinforce a low perception of success and reinforce deterrence. Deterrence is the primary objective of law. Investigation is secondary - the reactive element of the law when deterrence has failed. Prosecution/sentencing are tertiary and used to restore deterrence by reinforcing consequences and signaling a low probability of success to would be criminals. The search whether sound or not was necessary. Thanks.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 230 #63797 September 12 (edited) 6 hours ago, Cola said: 302- part 18-DB pg 5477 part 66 - DB Pg 28201 302-Part 24- DB pg -4111 part-66-DB pg-28123 The ticket did not come under the control of the Portland office even though it was known by 7pm passenger Dan Cooper was the hijacker. Here again we have a cataloging problem. Each Part has a number, each page WITHIN A PART has a number. You have not given the part-page numbers so we can find these pages? Everyone posting is using a different system! Post photos of the pages as attachments so we can copy ? Otherwise your pages can only be copied as partial screenshots with the Dropzone logo across each page! Here is an example ! This problem has become a nightmare . . . people are stuck doing clerical work vs anything else. We the page WITHIN A PART numbers to find these pages you post. Most people just give up and go find something else to do............ nobody is going to spend hours looking for one page within a Part! I have no idea where DBC Page 161514324332526 is in the FBI's FOIA files and Im not even going to try to find it !!! Edited September 12 by georger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 230 #63798 September 12 (edited) 7 hours ago, Cola said: 302- part 18-DB pg 5477 part 66 - DB Pg 28201 302-Part 24- DB pg -4111 part-66-DB pg-28123 The ticket did not come under the control of the Portland office even though it was known by 7pm passenger Dan Cooper was the hijacker. NEW: A week prior to the hijacking at Portland, a person was reported dropping flares from an airplane in Eugene air space. Ammerman is the source of this story. Ammerman and other controllers exchanged chatter about this after 305 was out of Ammerman's control. .. was the pilot of that plane ever identified and interviewed? Did that plane and pilot fly to Portland in the days just before the Cooper hijacking? Where was that pilot during the Cooper hijacking? Did anyone investigate that? I am assuming this is just one more Dead End. Edited September 12 by georger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 230 #63799 September 13 (edited) You did not post whole pages for context. Part18 5477 is a whole page. Below. I really think discussion of the Cooper case has broken down and at this point is so confusing and time consuming, it is going nowhere, impossible to follow, and pointless. Good luck. Edited September 13 by georger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
olemisscub 488 #63800 September 17 Georger, do you think you could look in some old notes and let me know the date in 2014 that you and Hominid spoke to Anderson? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
