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7 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

My conclusion is simple,, the FBI got the LZ right and Cooper jumped about 8:11. That is well short of the Columbia R.

 

So, Georger needs to prove the FBI's LZ is wrong. He can't.

 

 

The four stages of Georger

1 Ridicule, smear, lie and discredit

2 Obfuscate, distract and distort

3 Double down on stages 1 and 2

4 Spend years stuck in the Vortex pushing failed arguments

 

boeingtestpressure.jpeg.49b5ea6d08b797690c7006ecc775f06b.jpeg

 

Georger and Chaucer are quarrelsome with others on that forum.

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Georger and Chaucer are quarrelsome with others on that forum...

Greg the Techie Guy at AB of Seattle is 'absolutely certain' (his words) that Georger is one of the people using a phony identity to attack other Cooper folks at the Bruce Smith Mountain News website. Since a WordPress blog such as Smith runs allows you to see the IP address and email used by any commenter, he says Bruce is in cooperation with Georger on this effort. 

Greg sent me a comparison report, showing that some of the same phrasing, syntax, and even the actual insults posted to many of the hate-based comments at Smith's MN website are similar in nature, or exactly the same, as ones used by Georger either at Shutter's DB Cooper Forum, or farther back, when Georger was posting to Dropzone. (Georger was banned from DZ for personal attacks on other users, but may not know he can now re-register here if he wishes.)

On another note, Greg also believes that at least ONE of the phony identities being used at Bruce's Cooper Con 2021 article is actually Smith himself. 

Our history with Georger is twofold. He would come after everyone at AB on a personal level. Well, okay. Whatever. 

And one time he called our office phone just about midnight with his real name showing up on the Caller ID screen. We did not answer. He did this on the same day as he was banned from DZ for personal attacks, a thing he blamed on me, saying I was reporting him to DZ staff. (On a matter of point, the ONLY person I EVER reported to DZ, or complained about was that guy who was posting up twenty pages of porn at a time. That person has been banned permanently.)

Georger is two hours later on the clock where he lives. (Two hours later than Seattle, that is.) And he called at what would be 1:30AM in the morning his time. I took a picture of the Caller ID screen later, and posted it somewhere for him to see. He and a couple of other folks at Shutter's Cooper Forum lodged complaints about that, of course. So we had to take it down. (It had his phone number in the picture.) 

And I have never said this before, but when I talked about the threatening phone call made to the Auburn Days Festival just prior to my first presentation on Kenny Christiansen at the theater...it was Georger's area code matching that call as well. Unfortunately, the call itself was determined to have come from a pay phone or something. So we couldn't pin the blame on Georger for that call to a certainty. But we suspect he was the one who made that call, not Bruce Smith. We can't prove it. We simply suspect it. He had made a couple of really negative comments about that presentation here at DZ the very same day, or the day prior to the event. We didn't find out about the area code until after the Auburn Festival, and they never told us the entire phone number. Just that they thought it was a pay phone with XXX area code on it. 

What I'm actually trying to say here is that Georger and *some* of his friends have been pulling out the stops against us for more than ten years, and still continue this behavior today. He and Bruce Smith are the main reasons we want nothing to do with Smith, his blog at WordPress, the Cooper Forum, or the upcoming Cooper Con in November. They lie, they deceive people, they spread hate and discord. 

NOT EVERYONE at the Cooper Forum does this. Just the ones who use phony identities that Bruce Smith allows on HIS website. People such as Mark M, ('377' here at DZ and elsewhere) Tom Kaye, and others, we have the greatest admiration and respect for them due to their honesty and in some cases, their extensive work on the Cooper case. Others don't engage in attacking others either. Those are people like Marty Andrade, etc. 

EDIT: People may ask WHAT area code, Robert? WHAT area code appeared on both phone calls, the one to the Auburn Festival, and the one from Georger? I think just giving out that code is okay. 

319

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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The so called "pressure bump" was the oscillations... it wasn't a new event.

Minor oscillations were noted for some time but increased "violently" in frequency and magnitude,,, that increase was later described as the famous "pressure bump" felt by the crew. 

The crew and the FBI believe their 8:12 report of "oscillations" refer to that pressure bump.

"Pressure bump" was term applied in retrospect to differentiate those oscillations which increased in frequency and magnitude from the others.

 

The real question is where was the plane??

The 8:12 timestamp can be off a minute or two and the flightpath can be off a minute or two..

That puts the jump at the planes location at 8:12 on the FBI map plus or minus about 3 minutes along the path. That matches the FBI analysis for Cooper's LZ.

 

grayoscillations.jpeg.e87a229a42a849286775166bd6da3322.jpeg.072c80e205af31b9d81909cf8505bdce.jpeg

 

 

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'The real question is where was the plane??

The 8:12 timestamp can be off a minute or two and the flightpath can be off a minute or two..

That puts the jump at the planes location at 8:12 on the FBI map plus or minus about 3 minutes along the path. That matches the FBI analysis for Cooper's LZ...'

 

That's the Big Question, isn't it? And after 50 years, we will probably never be able to know the exact answer(s) with absolute certainty. 

Three minutes of doubt means nine miles of air travel. Somewhere along that nine mile path, Cooper jumped. Mark M, aka '377', who is the most experienced skydiver who ever posted to a Cooper forum, says that drift under canopy would probably be one mile in any direction from 10,000 feet. Some evidence points to the idea that the jet was actually flying at around 7,600 feet. 377 thinks that Cooper may have actually pulled the ripcord while he was still standing at the end of the stairs, rather than just trusting an FBI-provided chute would open. I tend to believe this as well. Since we know Cooper didn't have a working reserve, it makes sense to me that he might pull the ripcord and just let the chute squid out behind him, inflate, and pull him right off the stairs. 377 has also said that this would not be too great an opening shock. Another consideration is that there was still ONE OTHER PARACHUTE on board the jet that was packed...so if the NB8 fails to open...he can go back up into the main cabin and switch chutes. 

But whether Cooper pulled on the stairs, or took a chance and did a freefall with the FBI's chute, this still leaves a search area of nine miles by two miles maximum...or eighteen square miles. That is one hell of a search area. I've done TWO square miles up near Mt Index in Washington state with a group of fifty people...and I can tell you it isn't easy to cover two square miles. And the initial search for Cooper consisted of a few cops running up and down the main roads. At least for the first 24 hours or so. 

Even if you narrow the jump point to a single minute, this is still THREE miles of air travel times one mile in any direction under canopy. That is a search area of six square miles. Still a large enough area for Cooper to escape detection as long as he stays off the main roads. This is why I believe Cooper followed the RR tracks and headed SOUTH after he jumped. You have to believe he at least took a look around before that jump. And if he did, he would see darkness to the east (Cascade mountains), darkness to the north (a lot of woods that direction with only the Merwin Dam in the way) and out west it would be approximately 20 miles to the I-5 freeway. (Even if he could SEE the cars from that distance) 

But...if he looks south...he would see the lights of Vancouver and Portland. I also think there was some planning prior to the hijacking. Maybe not a lot, maybe it was low budget. Personally, my best guess on what was in the paper bag was probably a map, a compass, a flashlight perhaps. Even if he didn't have these things, it is easy to figure basic direction in the area of the jump. Even at night, you can see the Cascade mountains to the east. And everyone knows all the rivers and creeks in that area flow either south, or west toward the freeway. Nothing flows east because of the mountains. 

This is why the organized search for Cooper later simply failed. He had plenty of time to escape the area and reach civilization. I once got a truck stuck in the snow (January) near Yacolt and managed to hike out to Woodland in a single day. Got stuck at night. Stayed in the truck. Started walking at first light. This was over 30 years ago and there was much less civilization going in that area back then. I made it to the freeway in Woodland just at sunset, a distance of just under 20 miles. (Then I made some phone calls and eventually went back up with a friend's 4WD and got the truck home.) 

I didn't have any particular difficulty doing this except for being hungry. Cooper was probably long gone by the time the search really started. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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2 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

 ... it makes sense to me that he might pull the ripcord and just let the chute squid out behind him, inflate, and pull him right off the stairs. 

Yeah, if he intended to commit suicide. The acceleration (deceleration?) force would likely have snapped his neck (and the rest of his body). That's assuming the pilot chute and lines didn't snag on the ramp/stairs/support in what was very likely very turbulent air back there. 

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8 minutes ago, Divalent said:

Yeah, if he intended to commit suicide. The acceleration (deceleration?) force would likely have snapped his neck (and the rest of his body). That's assuming the pilot chute and lines didn't snag on the ramp/stairs/support in what was very likely very turbulent air back there. 

Well, I see you are a skydiver so I have to respect your opinion. But....the NB8 is a tough bulldog of a chute and was the same one used as a bailout rig for jet pilots. I don't know if this makes any difference, but the Boeing 727 was not at full cruising speed. It was traveling at about 185MPH at the time of the jump. Truth is that no one knows if he pulled off the stairs or simply jumped until he stabilized and pulled the ripcord at that point. 

377 here at DZ thinks is was easily survivable. I have met this guy when they were doing the yearly Cooper party down at the Ariel Tavern. He's been jumping close to fifty years at least. I dunno....

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11 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Well, I see you are a skydiver so I have to respect your opinion. But....the NB8 is a tough bulldog of a chute and was the same one used as a bailout rig for jet pilots. I don't know if this makes any difference, but the Boeing 727 was not at full cruising speed. It was traveling at about 185MPH at the time of the jump. Truth is that no one knows if he pulled off the stairs or simply jumped until he stabilized and pulled the ripcord at that point. 

377 here at DZ thinks is was easily survivable. I have met this guy when they were doing the yearly Cooper party down at the Ariel Tavern. He's been jumping close to fifty years at least. I dunno....

Let's stick to facts here.  There is no proof at this time that Cooper jumped with either an NB8 or NB6 canopy.  The backpack that remained on the airliner is suppose to be identical to the one that Cooper jumped but the canopy that is in it can not be determined until the WSHM agrees to open it and inspect the canopy.  However, the WSHM parachute does not have an NB8 or NB6 harness, container, or pilot chute since these can be determined by simple inspection without opening the container.

 

The airliner was actually doing about 225 MPH when Cooper jumped.  Very few, if any, parachutes in 1971 could survive an opening at that speed.  Even if Cooper didn't open off the stairs, his terminal velocity at 10,000 feet would be something on the order of 180 MPH.

 

I believe there are posters on this thread and elsewhere who have more jumping experience than 377.

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Well, if he was a skydiver, then I highly doubt he would have done that. He'd jump clear of the plane, stabilize himself at about a 120-130 mph fall rate in a belly-to-earth posture, then deploy. Even if the plane was traveling 120 mph, I'd fear snagging of the pilot chute or lines with parts of the plane and ramp, particularly in the turbulent air that back there. And I'd also fear the speed would more quickly inflate the main, which means the forces experienced would be even greater then the 2x you'd estimate just from the velocity (squared).

But the fact that he chose a dummy reserve seems to suggest he wasn't a skydiver, and so perhaps all that didn't occur to him.

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(edited)

Hmm...don't know who to answer first. Okay, Divalent:  The dummy reserve had no D rings. Neither did the NB6/8. It has been assumed that Cooper simply tossed it out the back at the same time he disposed of the phony bomb and the paper bag. (Don't know what was IN the bag, though.) 

Robert99:  It has been well established which parachutes, how many, and what types, Cooper received. I cannot go down this road with you, although I will respect your opinion on it. One working reserve was left on board. Popped and lines cut. The dummy reserve was missing. The working reserve remains in the hands of the FBI. The tan backpack was left on board unopened and is now on display at the Washington State History Museum. The NB6/8 backpack with a 28 foot round was taken by Cooper. Earl Cossey gave this report to the FBI about that particular chute:

TruthAtLast.jpg.4147328a8e0f6c2486fcdfdbcaa0807a.jpg

The document below is the one submitted by FBI agent John Detlor a few days after the hijacking. It confirms the information above and adds to it:

HaydenCosseyFBIExcerpt3.thumb.jpg.b3399fa8fa7f700a1649a48d358bfbc3.jpg

We have four chutes in total. 

  1. 28 foot round belonging to Norman Hayden and packed by Earl Cossey. The NB6.
     
  2. Tan cotton container with 26 foot white canopy. Belongs to Hayden, also packed by Cossey. This chute is in the WSHM today. (Picture below)
     
  3. One chest pack (reserve) chute belonging to Issaquah Sky Sports. This chute was opened on the aircraft and is held by the FBI. 
     
  4. Unworking trainer reserve. Missing from aircraft. No way to attach it, so it is assumed it was thrown out by the hijacker along with the phony bomb, etc. Came from Sky Sports. 
     

cooperchutetacoma.jpg.884d550405bd5e02c00760eb18d37a94.jpg

My interview with Norman Hayden confirms the information above. He agreed that this assessment of the parachutes was accurate...except he does not know anything about the two chutes given out by Sky Sports guy Linn Emerick. One of those was the trainer, the other is in the hands of the FBI. 

 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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(forgive me for asking questions that I assume have already been addressed.)  How do you know the dummy reserve couldn't be attached to a harness? The wikipedia DB Cooper paged linked to an FBI page that only said it was "sewn shut". I would think if you have a mock-up for ground training that it would be important to be able to attach it to a (dummy) harness, so you can feel the weight and bulk, see your altimeter (often mounted on top of the reserve), etc. Otherwise it's just something to look at, which doesn't seem worth the trouble to create, given that there were plenty real reserves at DZs to look at. So has it been established that it lacked the ability to be attached to a harness?

Why would he have wasted time and effort discarding it if he recognized it was a dummy? Unlike other things he apparently tossed, he didn't bring this on the plane, so it wasn't something that might have value in IDing him that he needed to get rid of. (Canvas wouldn't have finger prints on them.)

I suppose he could have cannibalized the good reserve for lines before he noticed that the other wasn't real (and so he knew he'd be jumping without a reserve), but still doesn't explain why he later tossed it. (Maybe he only noticed it at the last minute, as putting the reserve on would be one of the last things he would do after getting geared up, and threw it out in frustration when he finally discovered it wasn't real.)

 

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33 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

No D rings on the harness..

It is odd that the dummy chute is missing. Why toss it? If it was gutted to carry something, why toss the chute out of the plane?

There is a report Cooper took some crew meals.. 

I don't know about the meals. Some reports say that they ended up scattered a bit and FBI dogs started eating them. ^.^ When they came on board to do the plane search. 

I have wondered why Cooper would toss the dummy chute. My thought is that he did this maybe a minute or two prior to jumping, and the reason being to throw off any ground search, should those items be found. They have not been found. If Cooper jumps a couple of minutes after tossing the items, and the items are found during a ground search, the FBI would assume Cooper also landed nearby. When in reality he would have landed a few miles further south from the discovered items. Maybe they concentrate the search in the area where these items are discovered, but Cooper is actually miles away. 

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Update on UFO Skywatch/DB Cooper Party:  Amazon delivers the prizes (Amazon gift cards) to the wrong address. No one HOME at the wrong address and package not on their porch. So...I canceled the gift cards through an Amazon rep right away, and just picked up some new ones from Fred Meyer. LATER:  Neighbor lady shows up with the package. Since Amazon refunded me right away, and the cards had been locked...I cut them up and tossed them away. 

Someone gifted me an old-fashioned 40-cup coffeemaker, the kind you used to see in restaurants and lunch counters. I scrubbed it out from top to bottom and ran vinegar water through it to see if it worked. It works great. Rinsed out and packed away with two large cans of Yuban coffee. (*laughs*) 

No more orders from Amazon. We have everything we need, even a big banner, although the artwork and lettering still need to be added to it. My truck is going to hate me, being asked to pack this tremendous load. No worries, it can handle it. I have to fly down to Phoenix this Saturday and will return on Monday night. I will set up a vacation responder, because we are now getting quite a few messages about the event. Most ask 'where will it be?' I keep telling them to download the PDF. Because this event is ten miles off the main highway, I have decided to leave the PDF in place until the very last minute. I'm betting that for every 20 or 30 downloads, maybe one person will actually show up that isn't already on the attendee list. But even at that, I figure we can count on at least 40-50 people showing up now, plus the inevitable drop-ins. We also have an event notice running in a Seattle online paper. 

Not that he would actually show up, but Bruce Smith of the Mountain News is officially BANNED from this one. He supports online attacks on others at his website. I won't link all that at DZ again. I'm sure you've all seen those ridiculous comments he allows. Now I know why he was banned from the last Ariel party. B) No one else is officially persona non grata, but if we know you from Cooperland and you are considering showing up...you had better contact us in advance or take a chance we will turn you away. Space is getting tight anyway, and we're favoring two groups. The people who inquired via email and the Contact Form and expressed a desire to go, and members of the Seattle UFO Network, an offshoot of MUFON, the national group. 

 

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3 hours ago, Divalent said:

(forgive me for asking questions that I assume have already been addressed.)  How do you know the dummy reserve couldn't be attached to a harness? The wikipedia DB Cooper paged linked to an FBI page that only said it was "sewn shut". I would think if you have a mock-up for ground training that it would be important to be able to attach it to a (dummy) harness, so you can feel the weight and bulk, see your altimeter (often mounted on top of the reserve), etc. Otherwise it's just something to look at, which doesn't seem worth the trouble to create, given that there were plenty real reserves at DZs to look at. So has it been established that it lacked the ability to be attached to a harness?

Why would he have wasted time and effort discarding it if he recognized it was a dummy? Unlike other things he apparently tossed, he didn't bring this on the plane, so it wasn't something that might have value in IDing him that he needed to get rid of. (Canvas wouldn't have finger prints on them.)

I suppose he could have cannibalized the good reserve for lines before he noticed that the other wasn't real (and so he knew he'd be jumping without a reserve), but still doesn't explain why he later tossed it. (Maybe he only noticed it at the last minute, as putting the reserve on would be one of the last things he would do after getting geared up, and threw it out in frustration when he finally discovered it wasn't real.)

 

If the missing dummy reserve was "sewn shut", how did Cooper get it open?  And if he opened it, he must have known something was wrong with it.  Again, nothing is known for certain about the parachutes except that there were two backpacks and two reserves.

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1 hour ago, Robert99 said:

If the missing dummy reserve was "sewn shut", how did Cooper get it open?  And if he opened it, he must have known something was wrong with it.  Again, nothing is known for certain about the parachutes except that there were two backpacks and two reserves.

What do you mean 'nothing is known for certain'? Did you not read the report on the chutes from FBI agent John Detlor back there? The one he sent to the home office only days after the hijacking? Did you not see the FBI doc regarding Earl Cossey's testimony on the actual chute used by Cooper in the jump?  

Looks pretty obvious to me. Better take a second look. Plain as day. 

Last chance for glory soon. Here is the PDF to the UFO/Cooper Party. Gives the basics, but more info is available at the main page.  Those who can...DO. Those who can't...throw a big party instead. ¬¬

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This is the Cooper case,,,, very very little is certain.

The chute descriptions come from Cossey who also made conflicting and false statements.

We also have to sort out the conflicting serial numbers for the back chute left on the plane vs the one returned to Hayden.

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1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

This is the Cooper case,,,, very very little is certain.

The chute descriptions come from Cossey who also made conflicting and false statements.

We also have to sort out the conflicting serial numbers for the back chute left on the plane vs the one returned to Hayden.

FlyJack has got it right!

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(edited)

I wrote a fairly detailed post a while back about the nature of the jump, don't see a need to repeat it all, I'm sure it can be found. Divalent's concerns about the jump are accurate, but the bottom line is that it's all speculative because it's not known whether Cooper had experience or the knowledge to consider such things.

A couple quick points about the gear for Divalent - The reserves, even the dummy one, would have the attachment clips, because that's just how they're made, and he is correct that the dummy would need to attach to a harness for proper training. But the back chutes were not sport mains, but pilot emergency bailout rigs, and as such would not have the D-rings for the reserves to attach, because they ARE reserves. Also, I think it's been established about the dummy reserve that it's not the container that was sewn shut, but the canopy inside, to make it easier to repack between training uses.

It's been speculated that Cooper might have tried to use the dummy reserve container to hold some of the money.

 

Edited by dudeman17

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6 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

This is the Cooper case,,,, very very little is certain.

The chute descriptions come from Cossey who also made conflicting and false statements.

We also have to sort out the conflicting serial numbers for the back chute left on the plane vs the one returned to Hayden.

The Reno FBI guys may have gotten a serial number wrong, that is true. Hard to tell how that may have happened, and one factor is that everyone was in a big hurry that evening in Seattle. And the Reno office became a sudden law enforcement partner in the whole hijacking, since it wasn't until late in the hijacking that Cooper finally agreed to a refueling stop in Reno. But up in Seattle, earlier in the evening, you have people scrambling all over Puget Sound gathering the chutes from two different sources, delivered by two different entities, (cab driver for Hayden's chutes, WA State Patrol for Sky Sports). There was also the acquisition of the money, of course. That involved even more people. 

What we're talking about here are several sets of witnesses involved in all this gathering of parachutes. Couple of WSP officers, Linn Emerick at Sky Sports, Norman Hayden himself, a cab driver, FBI agents at the airport, Tina Mucklow, (since she brought the chutes on board personally) and even high-end NWA employees who were involved in working with the hijacker and the flight crew on the ground in Seattle. You have to consider that Cooper also ASKED for FOUR chutes, not three, or five, or any other number. So the logic says that's how many he would receive to keep from pissing him off and possibly setting off the bomb. 

Then you have two different FBI docs done right after the hijacking that support this information. Four parachutes total. I suppose the easiest way to confirm all this is for Tina Mucklow to just SAY how many exactly she dragged on board the jet that evening. She was the one who did that, and she was the one who was with Cooper afterward, even seeing him put one of them on. 

On the idea that Cooper may have used the dummy reserve for the money:  Unlikely, and for one really good reason. Mucklow saw him cutting lines from the other reserve and securing these lines around the money bag and around his waist. Doubtful that Cooper would jump with both the dummy reserve AND the money bag. More likely he just tossed the dummy reserve out the back along with the phony bomb. 

Personally, I believe the report from FBI agent John Detlor to be accurate, and it covers the two parachutes that Cooper would have chosen from to actually make the jump....the BACKPACKS. Hayden provided those backpacks, both come with good descriptions in his report. One sage green container, one tan container, and it was the tan container that ended up in the Washington State History Museum. Hayden has said he only owned the two parachutes anyway, and told me personally that he only bought them because of the new FAA rules on sport flying that required he wear one. (He also told me it was extremely unlikely he would ever jump from his plane, even if something failed during a sport flight. And he wore a chute only grudgingly. He said it made it harder to do the type of sport flying he did with a chute on his back.)  

Cossey....well...yes. He has been a bit of a renegade sometimes when it comes to providing information, but mostly AFTER THE FACT, not on the night of the crime. He was not at Sky Sports, nor did he go there....on the evening of the crime. No backpack (main) chutes belonging to him were given out from Sky Sports. Only the two belly packs, one of which was a phony. One belly pack was popped for its paracord by Cooper. The other, the trainer, is gone. This only leaves the two backpacks provided by Hayden. And one (tan backpack) is accounted for, the other (sage green container) is gone. The conclusion is that Cooper jumped with the sage green backpack. People have tried to add a fifth chute to this mix, sort of like a Fifth Beatle, but there is no Billy Preston factor going here. It is possible that in a hurried search and investigation of the jet when it landed in Reno, that Reno agents mis-recorded one of the chute numbers or something. Who knows? There are several numbers on both a parachute and a container, and chances are none of the Reno agents were skydivers. 

The Cossey Situation does exist though. Over the years he has been known to feed media, especially in the Seattle area, a bit of baloney here and there. He may have packed three of these parachutes, but he had nothing to do with their selection, or their delivery to the SeaTac Airport. But over the years the FBI went to him for identification, since he was the rigger and all. On the other side of that, he told media occasionally that he actually owned at least one of the backpacks provided by Hayden when he did NOT. Hayden has said he got miffed a couple of times at Cossey because of this. 

In the end, the FBI, as well as NWA, knew who owned those two backpacks. And this is why the tan backpack was finally returned to Norman Hayden, the one he eventually donated to the WSHM. (He also told me personally that the two chutes he provided to NWA were done under a rental-only arrangement, and that he received one check from them for this...but...they never paid him for any additional rental after the hijacking.) This finally prompted Hayden to have a lawyer send a letter to the FBI requesting the return of his 26-foot round in the tan backpack. To bolster Hayden's claim about this situation, he refuses money from WSHM for the parachute and simply gives it to them free. It even cost him $250 in legal fees he said, to have the lawyer send the FBI the request letter. He did not have to go to court. The FBI responded to the letter by simply returning the chute to him.

On a side note, Hayden mentioned that the two FBI agents who met up with him to return the chute were rather curt with him. They met somewhere, popped the trunk on the government car, handed him the chute, and departed just as quickly. Not exactly rude, but they didn't enjoy having to turn that chute back over to its rightful owner. (All of this comes from my two-hour phone interview with him years ago. I have the notes in front of me right now.)

Hayden was not aware of the Detlor report on the chutes when I spoke to him. I read it to him over the phone a couple of times, and then I sent him a copy via email. He confirmed it was absolutely accurate. So I ran up a high-def copy of the document, re-typed in better font, and sent that to him. He printed it up and had it framed for his office. 

Back to Cossey:  I have tried to study this guy, his statements to media over the years, to see if I can figure him out. I came to the idea that a number of years after the hijacking, he had put himself in a weird position with the media. He sometimes claimed he only packed the chutes. Sometimes he claimed he owned them, even one of the backpacks. I think things came to a head with him when they discovered the buried chute down in Amboy, WA. Cossey did two things with the media here. 

First...he told the media that he knew that parachute wasn't Cooper's 'in less than ten seconds,' even though the Seattle FBI initially told local media that the chute was 'the right size, the right color, and found in the right place...' The next day, he tells a Seattle Times reporter that the chute WAS Cooper's, and only the reporter's boss held that story long enough to do a second verification from Cossey...who retracted his statement and saved the reporter from being fired. The reporter was pretty angry of course. My theory is that at this point, with his conflicting statements over the years about the Cooper chutes, that Cossey was no longer motivated to identify a Cooper chute one way or another. If he does, then some of his previous claims would be discovered to be baloney. As far as the Amboy chute goes, the Seattle FBI dismissed it a week later with a lame 'by a preponderance of the evidence,' (against it being Cooper's) and any further information on it was shoved under the rug right to the present day. No one knows what happened to it, and the FBI later admitted that no one besides Cossey was allowed to view it in person. Tom Kaye's team made inquiries on it, and were rebuffed. Kaye has said that he has a standing offer to the FBI to be allowed to examine it. This offer was refused. 

This seems weird, because the FBI freely handed over to his team all of the OTHER physical evidence for examination. So what made the Amboy chute special? Why was it a big secret, and why did they refuse to give any reasons, or criteria for dismissal to either the media or the public? When I inquired on this chute eight years after its discovery, the Seattle FBI told me in both an email and over the phone that the chute was still 'evidence in an ongoing case'. Really? How could it be evidence when they dismissed it as evidence eight years previously? For some reason, the Seattle FBI decided that the Amboy chute was to be squashed, and no discussion released about it. They later admitted to me that other than Cossey, all other opinions on it were recruited by phone, or came in to them by phone. Only Cossey was allowed to actually see it. 

My best guess on this whole scenario is that the FBI suspected, or KNEW...that the Amboy chute DID come from Cooper, and decided to keep that a secret, not even allowing Tom Kaye's Citizen Sleuths team to see it. And that this was done because if they admit the chute was Cooper's....or Kaye and his team determine through examination that it WAS Cooper's...then the FBI would have to admit that Cooper got away with it. Their opinion for years after the finding of the money at Tina Bar was that Cooper died in the jump. They would have to admit they were wrong about that, and Cooper managed to escape with the money. Not a good thing for them when at that point the case was still open. 

The Amboy chute was buried without its container. A human being has to do that. It's occurred to me that if the Amboy chute IS Cooper's, that he may have used the container to transfer the money from what looked like an armored car bag into something more normal...like a backpack. After all, that's how he requested the money be delivered to him. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins
$250 to the lawyer for sending the letter, not $500. Some spelling corrections.

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(edited)

Oh, brother. Crazy World over at Bruce Smith's Mountain News again. It's actually becoming laughable at best. 

The user there known as 'Marla' posts the following, in response to another post by a new user, 'Mechanic,' who claims to know the real identity of my good buddy 'Greg the Techie Guy', and urges Cooper Folks to try calling him to see if he actually knows me. Marla says in response:

Quote

"Bruce:
ALERT!
Robert Blevins just breached your website by filing this comment under “Mechanic.”
Please remove immediately. Mr. Blevins is a liar and not to be trusted by anyone. I doubt the Mountain News or anyone involved in the Cooper case cares in the least who “Greg the Techie Page is or whether he’s a friend of Mr. Blevins. Mr. Page needs to find better friends..."

Sorry, 'Marla'. That isn't me. You're probably right. No one really cares who Greg is. I will have to ask Greg if HE cares who he is. ^_^ He's been well-versed in the activities and online hatred regarding what we call 'Cooper Nuts'. They have succumbed to the Vortex. Their hatred knows no bounds. 

For the remainder of you Brainiacs who think you know everything, Greg has been on the Staff Page of AB of Seattle for years prior to any involvement I had in the Cooper case. The website opened in August 2006. ¬¬

Our first capture there by the Internet Archive was on March 9, 2007. This is even prior to the Geoff Gray news article when KC first became a suspect. Go look for yourself. He's had the same exact entry there for him on the Staff Page for 14 years now.

I'll say one thing. You guys are funnier than a cat trying to cover his do-dah on a marble floor...

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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LOL! So he asks for 2 mains and 2 reserves, and the FBI gives him 2 bailout rigs (that can't take a reserve) and 2 reserves?  (So the fact that one "reserve" was actually a dummy is a complete moot point, as both were useless with a bailout rig.)

Man! Never trust the FBI!

I think it's very likely that he had at least some skydiving experience, but was not a rigger-level. I think a somewhat experienced skydiver would not have immediately recognized that the main rigs were bailouts, and by the time they were back up in the air and he figured it out, it was probably too late to make the plane land yet again and get proper equipment. He had enough experience, tho, to gamble with jumping without a reserve.

But given that they fucked him on the reserves, is it not unreasonable for them to have also fucked him on the mains? (IMO, the question is whether they gave him a 50% chance of surviving, or a 0% chance.)

The moral for me is: "Never trust the FBI!"
 

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(edited)
12 minutes ago, Divalent said:

LOL! So he asks for 2 mains and 2 reserves, and the FBI gives him 2 bailout rigs (that can't take a reserve) and 2 reserves?  (So the fact that one "reserve" was actually a dummy is a complete moot point, as both were useless with a bailout rig.)

Man! Never trust the FBI!

I think it's very likely that he had at least some skydiving experience, but was not a rigger-level. I think a somewhat experienced skydiver would not have immediately recognized that the main rigs were bailouts, and by the time they were back up in the air and he figured it out, it was probably too late to make the plane land yet again and get proper equipment. He had enough experience, tho, to gamble with jumping without a reserve.

But given that they fucked him on the reserves, is it not unreasonable for them to have also fucked him on the mains? (IMO, the question is whether they gave him a 50% chance of surviving, or a 0% chance.)

The moral for me is: "Never trust the FBI!"
 

On a matter of point, the FBI didn't have much to do with the chutes. Linn Emerick at Sky Sports was the guy who actually grabbed a couple of chutes off the wall or wherever and gave them to the State Patrol guys. I can't say whether he realized the dummy WAS a dummy training reserve or not. Cooper actually used these words in his demand:  "I want two front chutes and two back chutes..."  Not sure if that has any significance.

The two backpacks from Norman Hayden were arranged by someone at NWA. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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(edited)
8 hours ago, Divalent said:

LOL! So he asks for 2 mains and 2 reserves, and the FBI gives him 2 bailout rigs (that can't take a reserve) and 2 reserves?  (So the fact that one "reserve" was actually a dummy is a complete moot point, as both were useless with a bailout rig.)

Man! Never trust the FBI!

I think it's very likely that he had at least some skydiving experience, but was not a rigger-level. I think a somewhat experienced skydiver would not have immediately recognized that the main rigs were bailouts, and by the time they were back up in the air and he figured it out, it was probably too late to make the plane land yet again and get proper equipment. He had enough experience, tho, to gamble with jumping without a reserve.

But given that they fucked him on the reserves, is it not unreasonable for them to have also fucked him on the mains? (IMO, the question is whether they gave him a 50% chance of surviving, or a 0% chance.)

The moral for me is: "Never trust the FBI!"
 

The evidence strongly suggests Cooper had military jump experience.

Based on his estimated age of about mid 40's,, potentially.. WW2, Korea thru Vietnam..

Edited by FLYJACK

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30 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

The evidence strongly suggests Cooper had military jump experience.

I have said that as well. Hard to say. ^_^ Tina Mucklow did mention that Cooper put on the chute he selected like he knew what he was doing. At the first Cooper Con when Geoff Gray hosted, I heard Mark M let people try to put on the same chute Cooper jumped with and most of them couldn't figure out how to get it on properly. You can ask him ('377') but I think that's how it went. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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16 hours ago, Divalent said:

But given that they fucked him on the reserves, is it not unreasonable for them to have also fucked him on the mains? (IMO, the question is whether they gave him a 50% chance of surviving, or a 0% chance.)

It's also been speculated that the reason he asked for multiple rigs might be so that they would not give him sabotaged gear for fear that he might make someone else jump. Getting the bailout rigs may have just been ignorance on the part of the FBI or NWA or whoever was getting them. A big mystery is how he ended up with the dummy reserve, because Emerick or whoever at Sky Sports grabbed them should have instantly recognized that.

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