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7 minutes ago, CooperNWO305 said:

I agree with Flyjack. Nothing indicates much 727 experience. So many fallacies have been perpetuated from the start. Citizen sleuths have debunked a lot, or at least put many original theories to the test. 

Fair enough, believe as you wish. My opinion is based on all the sources I've read/heard, and 35 years as an aerospace engineer. I'm not here to convince anybody of anything, I have no suspect or agenda. Considering there are those in the community who think Cooper could have pulled this off with zero aviation and/or parachute experience, not sure it makes much difference if he was a rated 727 guy or not.

 

I do find it interesting Carr "thought" Cooper didn't specify flap settings, however.  You'd think he'd know that, especially if he became such good friends with which ever one of the pilots he became tight with as I've read.

 

I've identified 35 men named "William Hoover" who've been issued pilots' licenses by the FAA.  I'll wade through them to see if any of them fit the age/ratings we'd be looking for based on Hoover's treatise .

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16 minutes ago, MartinBaker said:

Fair enough, believe as you wish. My opinion is based on all the sources I've read/heard, and 35 years as an aerospace engineer. I'm not here to convince anybody of anything, I have no suspect or agenda. Considering there are those in the community who think Cooper could have pulled this off with zero aviation and/or parachute experience, not sure it makes much difference if he was a rated 727 guy or not.

 

I do find it interesting Carr "thought" Cooper didn't specify flap settings, however.  You'd think he'd know that, especially if he became such good friends with which ever one of the pilots he became tight with as I've read.

 

I've identified 35 men named "William Hoover" who've been issued pilots' licenses by the FAA.  I'll wade through them to see if any of them fit the age/ratings we'd be looking for based on Hoover's treatise .

That is the point,,,  it is your opinion...  based on what sources?  apparently not the evidence. Even opinions need an argument...

Most serious Cooper people believe Cooper had some aviation and parachute experience based on the evidence,, 

The leap to claim he was a 727 pilot/expert isn't supported. It is actually contradicted.

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11 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

That is the point,,,  it is your opinion...  based on what sources?  apparently not the evidence. Even opinions need an argument...

Most serious Cooper people believe Cooper had some aviation and parachute experience based on the evidence,, 

The leap to claim he was a 727 pilot/expert isn't supported. It is actually contradicted.

Never said he was a 727 pilot or expert.  

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51 minutes ago, MartinBaker said:

Fair enough, believe as you wish. My opinion is based on all the sources I've read/heard, and 35 years as an aerospace engineer. I'm not here to convince anybody of anything, I have no suspect or agenda. Considering there are those in the community who think Cooper could have pulled this off with zero aviation and/or parachute experience, not sure it makes much difference if he was a rated 727 guy or not.

 

I do find it interesting Carr "thought" Cooper didn't specify flap settings, however.  You'd think he'd know that, especially if he became such good friends with which ever one of the pilots he became tight with as I've read.

 

I've identified 35 men named "William Hoover" who've been issued pilots' licenses by the FAA.  I'll wade through them to see if any of them fit the age/ratings we'd be looking for based on Hoover's treatise .

If I recall correctly, didn't Cooper ask the NWA ticket agent at the counter (Dennis Lysne) if the flight to Seattle was a 727? I think he did. 

In other stuff, I did the interview with the guy from Wisconsin this morning. Mostly we talked about Ozette Island and the time I got lost for almost a month in the Cascades. Some small Cooper stuff, and I put in a plug for the Cooper Party. It was no big deal. First interview in a while, I have turned away all interview requests since the pandemic began. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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32 minutes ago, MartinBaker said:

Never said he was a 727 pilot or expert.  

 

4 hours ago, MartinBaker said:

Ok, thanks for the insight and feedback. We'll have to agree to disagree relative to Cooper's 727 experience prior to the hijacking.  In any event, as time permits I'm going to look into some of Hoover's claims, both about Carter/Sandness and himself.  

 

I asked you what you disagreed with.. and got back.. it's just your opinion.

 

Now, you claim Cooper's experience wasn't 727 specific. Is that your opinion now?

If so, what do you disagree with now?

 

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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17 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

 

 

I asked you what you disagreed with.. and got back.. it's just your opinion.

 

Now, you claim Cooper's experience wasn't 727 specific. Is that your opinion now?

If so, what do you disagree with now?

 

 

Nope.  I said he had experience on the a/c.  I don't believe he was a pilot, that was Hoover's position.  To be an expert on an aircraft, I consider that to mean someone has a design or systems engineering level of knowledge.   I don't think he had that either.  I do believe he had experience on type, however, probably from SAT in Laos.  

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1 hour ago, MartinBaker said:

Nope.  I said he had experience on the a/c.  I don't believe he was a pilot, that was Hoover's position.  To be an expert on an aircraft, I consider that to mean someone has a design or systems engineering level of knowledge.   I don't think he had that either.  I do believe he had experience on type, however, probably from SAT in Laos.  

By SAT I assume you mean the cover name for Air America. This could be true, but the way Cooper dressed for the hijacking has always led me to believe that...

A) He was a person with jump experience, but hadn't jumped in a while. And this could be why when the FBI were checking dropzones they basically came up empty. 

B - ) He may have been poor and desperate at the time. No one knows what was in the paper bag he carried, although I suspect a pair of boots was something he may have had with him. He was woefully underdressed for trying a night jump. Almost like he had never done anything criminal before, and was on a tight budget. Maybe it was hastily planned, maybe even poorly planned to an extent. It smells of desperate somehow. Hijacker Richard McCoy and a couple of others came much more prepared for the weather. 

If Cooper was either a Boeing employee at one time, or knew someone at Boeing who worked on the 727 in the early 60's, he may have heard about the flight tests. My dad worked for Boeing back then and said that the tests Boeing did included lowering the stairs in flight to see if it changed the flight characteristics. Or more bluntly...to see if the jet would try to flip over, lose lift, or otherwise start a plunge to the ground. He said these things were well known to the rank and file, and reports often appeared in the employee newsletter on tests. Everyone in the rank and file at Boeing wanted to know what was going on with 'their project,' as it were. 'Scuttlebutt,' as they say, was everywhere. On the factory floor, in the washroom, at the lunchroom, on breaks, etc. Maybe today it is different. Back then, everyone knew what was going on with 'their' jet on practically everything, and Boeing was the number one employer. No Starbucks, no Amazon, no Microsoft. Seattle, in many ways, was still a bit of a hick town. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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54 minutes ago, MartinBaker said:

Nope.  I said he had experience on the a/c.  I don't believe he was a pilot, that was Hoover's position.  To be an expert on an aircraft, I consider that to mean someone has a design or systems engineering level of knowledge.   I don't think he had that either.  I do believe he had experience on type, however, probably from SAT in Laos.  

 

My initial comment to you was 100% accurate, you disagreed with it and gave zero clarity when asked.

Now, you clarify the experience Cooper did not have. Pilot/expert. That is what I have already said. So, you don't disagree..

You want to research a suspect that has pilot experience that now you don't think Cooper had..

 

Then a vague statement, "believe" "probably" SAT in Laos.

What "experience" in Laos exactly? and how does it relate to the evidence.

The 727's in SE Asia potential has been tossed around forever but nothing solid found.

At least not that is made public. ;)

 

This has some updates in it, year 2020, p 49

https://library.utdallas.edu/specialcollections/hac/cataam/Leeker/history/Tibet.pdf

 

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My interest in Hoover's story is it's fresh and new, at least to me.  As previously stated, as written it contains factual errors and speculation, but I've yet to find a story/suspect espoused by anyone in the community that is without issues.  Besides, it more reasonable than claims the Zodiac killer was Cooper and others I've heard. I'm particularly interested in the claim the brother was a RCAF test pilot named Dan. I've never put a great deal of stock in the comic book tie-ins, but if this part of Hoover's story checks out....

I thought the use of CIA backed Southern Air Transport 727s to drop cargo and personnel was well known. I know they were based in Laos, but I can't remember the name of the airfield.

https://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/the-cia-proved-that-a-boeing-727-can-perform-air-drops-1566155708

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4 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

By SAT I assume you mean the cover name for Air America. This could be true, but the way Cooper dressed for the hijacking has always led me to believe that...

A) He was a person with jump experience, but hadn't jumped in a while. And this could be why when the FBI were checking dropzones they basically came up empty. 

B - ) He may have been poor and desperate at the time. No one knows what was in the paper bag he carried, although I suspect a pair of boots was something he may have had with him. He was woefully underdressed for trying a night jump. Almost like he had never done anything criminal before, and was on a tight budget. Maybe it was hastily planned, maybe even poorly planned to an extent. It smells of desperate somehow. Hijacker Richard McCoy and a couple of others came much more prepared for the weather. 

If Cooper was either a Boeing employee at one time, or knew someone at Boeing who worked on the 727 in the early 60's, he may have heard about the flight tests. My dad worked for Boeing back then and said that the tests Boeing did included lowering the stairs in flight to see if it changed the flight characteristics. Or more bluntly...to see if the jet would try to flip over, lose lift, or otherwise start a plunge to the ground. He said these things were well known to the rank and file, and reports often appeared in the employee newsletter on tests. Everyone in the rank and file at Boeing wanted to know what was going on with 'their project,' as it were. 'Scuttlebutt,' as they say, was everywhere. On the factory floor, in the washroom, at the lunchroom, on breaks, etc. Maybe today it is different. Back then, everyone knew what was going on with 'their' jet on practically everything, and Boeing was the number one employer. No Starbucks, no Amazon, no Microsoft. Seattle, in many ways, was still a bit of a hick town. 

I'm with you with regards to Cooper's apparent lack of preparation for survival once on the ground, assuming he made it that far.  Desperation? Inexperience? Ego? Overconfidence? Who knows?  Everything I've read/heard from Mucklow, however does not indicate any of those traits to me.  I'm more inclined to believe he thought the whole thing through and, at least in his mind, planned for the eventualities he could face.  If he survived the jump and got away, he clearly did something right 

The corporate family mentality of the day your father described at Boeing was very similar to what I experienced at LTV in Grand Prairie, Texas in the mid 70s. My boss there talked about "jungle drums" to describe plant gossip and rumors.  

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1 hour ago, MartinBaker said:

 

My interest in Hoover's story is it's fresh and new, at least to me.  As previously stated, as written it contains factual errors and speculation, but I've yet to find a story/suspect espoused by anyone in the community that is without issues.  Besides, it more reasonable than claims the Zodiac killer was Cooper and others I've heard. I'm particularly interested in the claim the brother was a RCAF test pilot named Dan. I've never put a great deal of stock in the comic book tie-ins, but if this part of Hoover's story checks out....

I thought the use of CIA backed Southern Air Transport 727s to drop cargo and personnel was well known. I know they were based in Laos, but I can't remember the name of the airfield.

https://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/the-cia-proved-that-a-boeing-727-can-perform-air-drops-1566155708

Right,,  so the "Air America" CIA stuff has always lingered as having some possible connection but there is no evidence of any. The obvious similarity is they were both 727's, but that is it. The FBI investigated the jumpers who took part in Takhli test jumps. 

Cooper incorrectly thought the cockpit controlled the rear airstairs, so I have been looking for planes used in SE Asia that did drops and had cargo doors controlled from the cockpit..  I believe that was the C-130. Both front and rear controls.

IMO, it is more likely Cooper had experience with the C-130 than 727.

Edited by FLYJACK

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3 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Did you know that the guys who actually served with Air America have a website? I want one of the hats. B)

Not surprised.  I found this site for SAT alumni a couple years ago. I sent a few emails looking for a lead on SAT 727 crews in Laos, but got no responses.

http://sat.the-beach.com/

 

Ever hear this story? I attended a lecture on this incident at the NMUSAF back many years ago.

 

https://www.warhistoryonline.com/instant-articles/an-aerial-combat-first.html

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Just now, MartinBaker said:

Not surprised.  I found this site for SAT alumni a couple years ago. I sent a few emails looking for a lead on SAT 727 crews in Laos, but got no responses.

http://sat.the-beach.com/

 

Ever hear this story? I attended a lecture on this incident at the NMUSAF back many years ago.

 

https://www.warhistoryonline.com/instant-articles/an-aerial-combat-first.html

Before I look...I will bet you mean the Air America chopper that shot down a fixed wing. The biggest single collection of Laotian and Air America images probably belongs to Terry Wofford. Hope I got his name right. More than 300 pictures and some oil paintings. 

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13 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Right,,  so the "Air America" CIA stuff has always lingered as having some possible connection but there is no evidence of any. The obvious similarity is they were both 727's, but that is it. The FBI investigated the jumpers who took part in Takhli test jumps. 

Cooper incorrectly thought the cockpit controlled the rear airstairs, so I have been looking for planes used in SE Asia that did drops and had cargo doors controlled from the cockpit..  I believe that was the C-130.

IMO, it is more likely Cooper had experience with the C-130 than 727.

Could Cooper have been sandbagging Mucklow?  Concealing his knowledge of opening the door for misdirection?  

In the C-130, you can open both the door and lower the ramp in flight.  

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4 minutes ago, MartinBaker said:

Could Cooper have been sandbagging Mucklow?  Concealing his knowledge of opening the door for misdirection?  

In the C-130, you can open both the door and lower the ramp in flight.  

Sandbagging,, yikes

if you want to go that route into theoreticals then we have nothing to build a foundation on...

Cooper could have been a 5 foot 80 year old Chinese woman in disguise with lifts.

Anything is possible,, we have to operate from a base. Otherwise people just make up anything and they often do to justify theories...   

 

Cooper had Mucklow show him how to operate the stairs and he also indicated that the crew could operate the rear stairs from the cockpit. He also couldn't get the stairs down initially. 

The 727 in SE Asia had the rear stairs removed. We don't know if a 727 was used in some secret operation that they won't admit to.

The C130 was widely used, the Vietnam C130 guys thought Cooper was one of them... 

You can open the door and lower the ramp inflight from the rear or the cockpit..

 

If he believed the cockpit could control the rear stairs that indicates he didn't have 727 specific knowledge but may have got it from C130 experience.. or maybe another plane.  He had aviation knowledge so he got that assumption from somewhere. 

 

 

 

 

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(edited)

The Delta Airlines Retirees Group at Facebook is HERE. About 10,000 members and they are active. Shows ten posts today. 

It's a totally private group. If you tell them you aren't a former Delta employee, (they also allow members from the airline companies that Delta purchased here and there, or merged with)....they will probably deny you access if you apply to join the group. There are ways around that, but I won't mention them here. Up to you. 

*****************************

EDIT: After reading a recent article in the Oregonian today, it has been decided by Adventure Books staff that we will no longer offer any support to the upcoming DB Cooper Con scheduled at the Kiggins Theater in Vancouver, WA this November. In fact, we are officially advising people not to waste their twenty-some bucks to attend, although we hold absolutely no animosity toward the people who Ulis convinced to participate in this event on stage. We make an exception for scheduled speaker Bruce Smith of the Mountain News, who continues to allow hatred to be posted in comments to his news blog.

We wish them the best, but we will not support this event. 

Frankly, we believe that organizer Eric Ulis is simply using the Cooper case to boost his chances for election to the US Congress, or possibly a movie deal, and couldn't care less who he 'uses' to achieve those ends. And so does the Oregonian, via Oregon Live Dot Com. The article points out that Elis has failed, sometimes very miserably, in at least six other attempts to be elected to public office. 

The OregonLive article is here: https://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/2021/04/why-would-an-arizona-congressional-candidate-launch-his-campaign-in-the-pacific-northwest-db-cooper-of-course.html

Our re-released video where we parody Ulis a bit is below. 

 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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(edited)

There will be questions, yes. Maybe not to me directly about all this, also yes. 

Like...WHY?

Answer:  Because we think the OregonLive article is correct, and we were right about Ulis all along. That said, here is the OTHER video we did on Ulis, showing how he took a free event open to everyone, and gained control of it in order to start charging people money to attend, and to boost his chances for election to the US Congress. 

Frankly, we don't give him much of a chance, and neither does OregonLive, who saw through Eric a lot better than we did. They point out he's done this many times before (run for public office), all unsuccessfully, and is now using the Cooper case (and the people who surround it) to boost his chances for another try. To make things worse, Eric Ulis continues to ride this train by making up evidence against the late Sheridan Peterson, trying to pin the Cooper hijacking on an obviously innocent man. 

 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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Here Cooper thought the cockpit could control the rear airstairs..

That means he did not have 727 "experience"...

 

So, where did he get the idea...  the C130 had controls in the cockpit.

If Cooper was Vietnam, he likely got the assumption that the cockpit controlled the rear airstairs from another plane,, like the C130.

lowerstaircockpit1.jpeg.c359a7a8cd3d84db947500fbbed9f2d1.jpeg

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Interesting.  From personal C-130 experience, I knew cargo doors/ramp can be opened/lowered in flight from the flight deck. You got me thinking about the other tactical airlifters used in SEA, particularly those involved in airdrop (cargo and personnel) missions, however.  So I decided to investigate if the cargo door/ramp of either the C-123 Provider or C-7 Caribou could be lowered from the flight deck. As we can see from this page copied from the C-7 flight (-1) manual, they were operable from the cockpit.  I can't find a free copy of the C-123 flight manual on line, but I'd bet the Provider flight deck crew had the same ability.  That would be easy enough to confirm with a visit to the NMUSAF research library, once they start letting people in after COVID restrictions are lifted.

I guess this means Cooper could have had experience on the Caribou, and/or probably the C-123, as well.  

Screenshot_20210425-210222_Drive.jpg

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24 minutes ago, MartinBaker said:

Interesting.  From personal C-130 experience, I knew cargo doors/ramp can be opened/lowered in flight from the flight deck. You got me thinking about the other tactical airlifters used in SEA, particularly those involved in airdrop (cargo and personnel) missions, however.  So I decided to investigate if the cargo door/ramp of either the C-123 Provider or C-7 Caribou could be lowered from the flight deck. As we can see from this page copied from the C-7 flight (-1) manual, they were operable from the cockpit.  I can't find a free copy of the C-123 flight manual on line, but I'd bet the Provider flight deck crew had the same ability.  That would be easy enough to confirm with a visit to the NMUSAF research library, once they start letting people in after COVID restrictions are lifted.

I guess this means Cooper could have had experience on the Caribou, and/or probably the C-123, as well.  

Screenshot_20210425-210222_Drive.jpg

C-123.. manual

looks like rear controls only

https://buckeyewing.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/c-123b-9-loading-and-unloading-reduced-size.pdf

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38 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Yeah, I saw the cargo handling manual but didn't bother looking at it. Hard to tell from the -9 what controls are available on the flight deck.  I'll call the curator tomorrow at the museum and see if I can make an appointment to look at the flight manual. At this point I'm not sure what difference it makes if there were two or three tactical cargo a/c with that capacity, however.

To me the C-7 is a far more intriguing possibility since they were US Army aircraft until being transferred to the USAF in the late 60s.  

 

 

 

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(edited)

There are only two points here regarding Cooper and any possible experience with airstairs on a 727. None of them necessarily point to experience with airstairs controls themselves. Or...any experience with other planes that had such systems. 

1) Cooper specifically asked at the Portland NWA ticket counter if the flight to Seattle was a 727. Since it later became obvious the stairs were a part of his plan, this only means he knew a 727 had such stairs. Anybody who ever saw a 727 sitting on the ground and the passengers deplaning on stairs instead of a jetway would know that. 

2) He knew a 727 had airstairs. He didn't know how to lower them. This information, (how to lower) would only be known through a physical search at a library back in those days, (no internet) or if someone gave him a general idea on how it was done, such as "There's a lever or something in the back..." 

Other News: After I posted the videos back there, within minutes, 'Johnnie Greene' made the worst comment he's ever done about me over at Bruce Smith's Mountain News. It was soooo bad (*laughs*) I took a screenshot of it. Went back today and Bruce had removed it. We know that 'JG' is a prime member and heavy contributor at Shutter's DB Cooper Forum. At WordPress, your comments to someone's article cannot be removed except by the owner of the blog. But the nature of the text and a few other things told us who JG really is. We figure it is retired university instructor Jerry W, aka 'Georger'. We were pretty sure before this time, but now we are convinced it is him. He's the only one who comes after me that persistently and uses the syntax and phrasing he does in posts. His last post was very much the same as ones he used to do at the Cooper Forum with the same theme. It's a little hard to explain to lay people, but when you read enough of peoples' writing when they use their own identity, as he does at the Cooper Forum, it is not that hard to figure out similar writing is being done by the same person, even if they try using a false identity to hide themselves. Especially when you've been reading their 'stuff' for years, both in the known versions and the false identity versions. And frankly....after editing more than 50 books for other authors over the years...it is a skill you learn. A lay example would be if you heard any line from any Shakespeare work. You would know right away who wrote it. For a long time opinion among the AB staff was split. We figured the 'Johnnie Greene' posts were coming from one of three possible people: Shutter himself, Georger, and one vote went to Eric Ulis. But after taking the JG posts at Mountain News as a whole and comparing them to attacks that were done years ago in a similar vein over at the Cooper Forum...we decided it had to be Georger. B) What we figure is either Bruce decided Georger had gone too far this time...or Georger regretted his post and asked Bruce to take it down. You guys are not helping yourselves by doing these things, you know. It also shows you have no respect for Bruce at all. I mean...if you're going to lie about me and come after me personally...you should at least man up about it a bit. As far as Bruce, Shutter, Georger, 'Marla,' and the whole Peanut Gallery goes, Bruce is the enabler and Shutter is his assistant. I say this because Bruce, being the owner of the WordPress site, has access to the email address and IP address of anyone who comments...and Shutter has the same thing with his forum members. So they know perfectly well who is who, and what is going on. So they are ENABLERS, like the guy who keeps buying the liquor for an alcoholic, or dropping off boxes of Crispy Cremes to someone trying to lose weight. They aren't fooling anybody. 

We picked up two more people for the Cooper Party today. Since we only have six weeks until Decision Day, I am now encouraging anyone who inquires on attending to bring their friends along...and I tell them that if we don't reach our goal on attendees by June 5th or therabouts...we would have to cancel. I also encourage them to spread the word on social media. 

I did NOT enjoy withdrawing our support for this year's Cooper Con...but if you look at the entire picture of things...you can understand why we did. Any reasonable person turns his back on baloney, lies about others, and hatred. There is enough of that going around already. I won't have any part of it. If it continues, I will definitely lay it all out there for the public to decide, both in video and in articles. I would rather NOT do that. AB of Seattle does stand to gain if you succeed this year. But you have made it impossible for us to support your event, as well as one of your main speakers at this event. Not my fault...YOURS. 

 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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10 hours ago, MartinBaker said:

Yeah, I saw the cargo handling manual but didn't bother looking at it. Hard to tell from the -9 what controls are available on the flight deck.  I'll call the curator tomorrow at the museum and see if I can make an appointment to look at the flight manual. At this point I'm not sure what difference it makes if there were two or three tactical cargo a/c with that capacity, however.

To me the C-7 is a far more intriguing possibility since they were US Army aircraft until being transferred to the USAF in the late 60s.  

 

 

 

I lean toward a bigger plane like the C-130,, it is pressurized and dropped cargo and troops.

Cooper asked for 10,000 ft, the unpressurized limit and gear and flaps down. Flaps down and gear down is the low level drop configuration for the C-130.

Of course, It could be "experience" with more than one type plane in Vietnam/Korea.

Edited by FLYJACK

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7 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

There are only two points here regarding Cooper and any possible experience with airstairs on a 727. None of them necessarily point to experience with airstairs controls themselves. Or...any experience with other planes that had such systems. 

1) Cooper specifically asked at the Portland NWA ticket counter if the flight to Seattle was a 727. Since it later became obvious the stairs were a part of his plan, this only means he knew a 727 had such stairs. Anybody who ever saw a 727 sitting on the ground and the passengers deplaning on stairs instead of a jetway would know that. 

2) He knew a 727 had airstairs. He didn't know how to lower them. This information, (how to lower) would only be known through a physical search at a library back in those days, (no internet) or if someone gave him a general idea on how it was done, such as "There's a lever or something in the back..." 

Other News: After I posted the videos back there, within minutes, 'Johnnie Greene' made the worst comment he's ever done about me over at Bruce Smith's Mountain News. It was soooo bad (*laughs*) I took a screenshot of it. Went back today and Bruce had removed it. We know that 'JG' is a prime member and heavy contributor at Shutter's DB Cooper Forum. At WordPress, your comments to someone's article cannot be removed except by the owner of the blog. But the nature of the text and a few other things told us who JG really is. We figure it is retired university instructor Jerry W, aka 'Georger'. We were pretty sure before this time, but now we are convinced it is him. He's the only one who comes after me that persistently and uses the syntax and phrasing he does in posts. His last post was very much the same as ones he used to do at the Cooper Forum with the same theme. It's a little hard to explain to lay people, but when you read enough of peoples' writing when they use their own identity, as he does at the Cooper Forum, it is not that hard to figure out similar writing is being done by the same person, even if they try using a false identity to hide themselves. Especially when you've been reading their 'stuff' for years, both in the known versions and the false identity versions. And frankly....after editing more than 50 books for other authors over the years...it is a skill you learn. A lay example would be if you heard any line from any Shakespeare work. You would know right away who wrote it. For a long time opinion among the AB staff was split. We figured the 'Johnnie Greene' posts were coming from one of three possible people: Shutter himself, Georger, and one vote went to Eric Ulis. But after taking the JG posts at Mountain News as a whole and comparing them to attacks that were done years ago in a similar vein over at the Cooper Forum...we decided it had to be Georger. B) What we figure is either Bruce decided Georger had gone too far this time...or Georger regretted his post and asked Bruce to take it down. You guys are not helping yourselves by doing these things, you know. It also shows you have no respect for Bruce at all. I mean...if you're going to lie about me and come after me personally...you should at least man up about it a bit. As far as Bruce, Shutter, Georger, 'Marla,' and the whole Peanut Gallery goes, Bruce is the enabler and Shutter is his assistant. I say this because Bruce, being the owner of the WordPress site, has access to the email address and IP address of anyone who comments...and Shutter has the same thing with his forum members. So they know perfectly well who is who, and what is going on. So they are ENABLERS, like the guy who keeps buying the liquor for an alcoholic, or dropping off boxes of Crispy Cremes to someone trying to lose weight. They aren't fooling anybody. 

We picked up two more people for the Cooper Party today. Since we only have six weeks until Decision Day, I am now encouraging anyone who inquires on attending to bring their friends along...and I tell them that if we don't reach our goal on attendees by June 5th or therabouts...we would have to cancel. I also encourage them to spread the word on social media. 

I did NOT enjoy withdrawing our support for this year's Cooper Con...but if you look at the entire picture of things...you can understand why we did. Any reasonable person turns his back on baloney, lies about others, and hatred. There is enough of that going around already. I won't have any part of it. If it continues, I will definitely lay it all out there for the public to decide, both in video and in articles. I would rather NOT do that. AB of Seattle does stand to gain if you succeed this year. But you have made it impossible for us to support your event, as well as one of your main speakers at this event. Not my fault...YOURS. 

 

Airstairs were not all that uncommon, especially on narrow body, short haul commercial airliners.  Airliners so equipped, such as the 727, DC-9, and 737, often flew to/from smaller airports where wheeled stairways and/or jetways were at a premium.  I'm sure the Boeings and McD's of the would have used this capability as a marketing point.

 

Just to clarify, there were/are no airstairs on the tactical airlifters I've mentioned previously (unless you count the crew entry door at the front of the aircraft.)  The cargo door(s)/ramp system is used primarily to load and unload cargo/passengers on the ground, and for cargo airdrops. While it is possible to jump from the open door/ramp in flight, paratroopers usually jump from doors on the side of the rear of the a/c specifically designed for that purpose.  

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