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DB Cooper

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(edited)
1 hour ago, dudeman17 said:

Case in point...

Supposition on your part. Not factual.

NOT on the record. OFF record comment made in confidence. Confidence that was betrayed.

Apparently, his trust was misplaced.

 

NONE of which proves your point.

It is what it is. There is no supposition. I have no point to prove. You get the evidence where it comes. It wasn't like I went looking for Troy and his friends. They volunteered the information. He sent the emails, made the phone calls to my office. No one twisted his arm. His wife was unhappy, but then I am not married to her. I agreed to keep his name out of it for a year, which he appreciated, and I kept my word on that. (I actually kept his name out of it for more than a year.) And before I went public, I warned him that was coming. He was nervous, but had no objections.  

It is not for me to draw final conclusions. That will be up to the public (to a degree) and the media. I'm just the conduit for the evidence. It is up to others to decide, or to figure out on their own, whether that evidence is valid. I am neither a reporter or a detective, although I have worked with both. 

There is a double standard going in Cooperland that is well-known. For example, what would Shutter and his forum members be saying now if this information was coming from Bruce Smith, for example, or perhaps Eric Ulis. The enthusiasm would be tremendous. "Tell us more!" they would shout at the rafters. Especially if it involved a suspect OTHER than Christiansen. But because it comes from me, there is the usual prejudice involved. No worries. I am used to it.  

If this were coming to you from another source, one from the 'protected rolls,' the approach to it would be much different. But since many of you (not YOU dudeman) have engaged in negativity right up to the present day on practically everything and anything we do or investigate around here...your biggest fear is that the information might be correct. Personally, I can't say. But I do say we let others examine the evidence with a more objective eye and decide for themselves. It's the most fair way to do it, you know. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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(edited)

Well, I've posted this before, but I guess I need to post it again.

This was a response that Bruce had received from Ann Dietrich Williams after he emailed her asking about a supposed suspect that the FBI had spent the previous 5 years investigating before closing the case. This was her response:

"As you know, I can't provide a name because of Privacy Act considerations. However, I will tell you that a tip we received in 2010 provided information on a person the FBI had not previously considered as a match to the NORJAK subject. Every other individual mentioned in tips over the last five or more years was someone the FBI had previously considered, and for whom investigative results did not support further consideration. I would caution you from saying we spent five years investigating, because the effort was much less involved. We received items belonging to the 2010 individual and sent them to our lab for forensic testing against the DNA and fingerprint profiles we have on file. Given much more urgent and higher profile demands on the Lab, only in January 2016 did the Seattle Division receive the results of that testing. It did not confirm a match between the 2010 individual and the hijacker.  There was tremendous media attention in 2011 to our investigation. I can't confirm or deny any claims about the identity of the individual we were considering, but I would suggest you review that media coverage."

Obviously, she is talking about LD Cooper. 

1. LD Cooper was the last suspect investigated by the FBI.

2. Curtis Eng told Marla that he thought LD was DB Cooper and that the FBI would be closing the case. 

3. John Jarvis NEVER said the name Kenny Christiansen.

4. The FBI put LD Coopers name out there publicly, even though he was dead. So why would they not put Christiansen's name out there if they thought he was Cooper? There is no way that the FBI would not name the guilty party if they knew who it was. NO WAY!

Edited by ParrotheadVol

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(edited)
1 hour ago, Andrade1812 said:

The case was shut down four and a half years ago. If the FBI had a "for sure" candidate, *someone* would have mentioned it by now.

Someone HAS mentioned it. Just saying. 

I don't expect people to just accept Bentz' and his friends story at face value, based on a couple of internet posts. I'm not that foolish. But it's a pretty serious allegation all around and people sometimes lose their high-paying jobs over being a whistleblower. Bentz has a family and children. He and his friends all have security clearances. John Jarvis is a fairly high-profile FBI agent. Those things cannot be dismissed on a whim. 

The evidence will be presented in June. We're releasing a couple of videos afterward. One of the festival itself, maybe 90 minutes. The other will be about the Jarvis/Bentz story. We will see where it goes. Sometimes you have to shake the tree to get the apples to fall, you know. I've had to shake the tree more than once with the Seattle FBI, the last time finally getting them to admit that only Earl Cossey was allowed to examine the Amboy Chute. This is nothing new to me. I've been dealing with them for years. 

The evidence will be released in its entirety in June. I will have a press release ready in case any media show up, and an evidentiary package for them. This will include the transcripts from two phone calls and copies of certain emails. We will see where it goes. Maybe it goes nowhere. Maybe it turns out to be true. The only way to know for certain is to provide this information to professionals who have the means to check the truth of the story. 

Seems fair enough to me. I see absolutely nothing wrong with this approach. You do want to know the truth on this issue, right? Truth is the only thing that matters in this case to you....right? Your comments aren't based on whether you like or don't like me personally...right?  ¬¬

I have nothing to add on this issue until June. I know most of you can't just drop in to the Snoqualmie area to attend the festival. I promise I will release the videos within a few days afterward. 

EDIT: I wanted to add something that has nothing to do with this issue. If you want to be kept in the loop regarding the June Festival, even if wild horses could not drag you there...you should get on the monthly update lists. There are two lists. The first is about 35 names (Cooperland folk, mostly), most of whom you probably know. The public list is approaching 200 names. Those are people we DON'T know, but who used the contact form to inquire on the festival. But the number on the public list who have actually sent in their vaccine stuff to us and said they are DEFINITELY attending is only about 30 people so far. News articles will be coming out sometime in April on the event. 

What this tells me is that people (even if they have no intention of going, or can't go) want to be kept in the loop right up to and including the time of the festival, even if they have no plans to go. No one on either list has asked to be dropped from it either, even after three email updates. I always offer that, i.e. 'if you no longer wish to receive these updates...' etc. No one ever asks. 

There has been a lot of confusion about this situation, mostly due to our cautions regarding the pandemic. We've changed our minds on hitting a certain number on the email list(s) and then shutting down further apps to attend. The way it works is we will take everyone and anyone who wants on the lists. But....(there's always a 'but,' isn't there?) the first 200 or so people who actually confirm with us with a follow-up message saying they are for-sure showing up, that's when we shut the whole application process down. We have to draw the line somewhere, and we figure that's the best way. Most will submit their vaccine info prior to the festival. Some will show it when they arrive. But the absolute max on attendees is 250 and frankly I hope we don't get quite that many. 

At the point we shut it all down, probably May 15 or so, everyone on the confirmed list will receive the official program and the PDF with the directions, the maps, our contact info, the guest speaker list, suggestions on gear, things like that. THEN we remove the video and the webpages and see who shows. I know it's complicated, but it's what we have to do. Covid is a bitch. 

And as I have offered before, if anyone in Cooperland wishes to submit a video, or some kind of audio presentation, book or website pitch, feel free to do so. We don't judge them except they cannot contain any personal attacks on individuals. The FBI or law enforcement are fair game. ^.^ We will accept your media (put it on a flash drive and use our mailing address at the AB website under Press and Media Info Page) in MP3 format, or for video, MP4 or AVI only. You are responsible for the quality of the video. Shoot in high-def if you want your material presented on the big screen. If you shoot in low resolution, all we can do for you is the smart TV. If you are not sure whether your video format will work, submit it anyway and we will check. We have Format Factory, which can *often* be used to convert video we can't run into video we CAN run for you. 

Just don't wait too long. It's only a two day/two night event, and pretty much everything in the evening is a party celebrating DB Cooper. And at this point I don't think we'll have any trouble filling the space we have to work with, either by Cooper fans or the time allotted to present Cooper-related material. 

 

Edited by RobertMBlevins
some clarifications

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1 hour ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Someone HAS mentioned it.

 

4 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

There is no supposition.

That's EXACTLY what it is.

1 hour ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Maybe it turns out to be true.

And that's an admission.

------

You are so defensive, so quick to disagree with anything anyone says that you contradict yourself from post to post. Often within the same post, sometimes within the same paragraph. You really should be more objective.

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You are dealing in generalizations. I'm this, I'm that. The Bentz testimony is what it is. It's not in my job description to determine the truth one way or another. Not for sure anyway. I'm going to leave that to others, people more able to do this than I can personally. Professionals. Reporters, I guess. This evidence, due to the background of the people involved, is a bit above my pay grade. It will take me some time to organize everything in a way that will be clear and easy for people to understand. 

Then I will present what I have in June. At the festival. I wasn't planning to speak at all, but now I am under some pressure to say SOMETHING. So I decided the most important thing I could present was not another KC-go-around, but lay out everything we have regarding Bentz and his friends and Agent Jarvis. The truth needs to be discovered on this issue, because IMHO it's a pretty big deal. 

Not only am I having to work a regular job, but answer emails, help plan the darn thing, organize the logistics of it (a lot harder than the simpler 'Cooper Campouts' we did in the Olympics)...you would not believe it. 

Even if I laid out everything on the internet, what good would that do? The Usual Suspects would once again raise their anonymous heads and insult me in places where I can't respond. Why feed the trolls? I would rather present everything in person and back it up IN person. This works for me a lot better than squabbling on the internet. We have less than 120 days until the festival and things are looking pretty good. We have at least two, maybe three media sources willing to cover it. Better to present whatever we have left in the Cooper case to a live crowd and the press, rather than holding court on the internet. Been there, done that. Any one of you is welcome to do the same. Not like I try to shut people out, you know. 

OTHERS do that. :handok:

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6 hours ago, Andrade1812 said:

In the end, we'll be getting even more documents from the FBI. I've heard estimates as high as ten years to get the entire investigation to the public. If the penultimate or ultimate case agent thought they had a likely suspect who happened to be deceased, we'll know eventually.

Well, I will agree with the idea that the files will all eventually be released. I don't recall the most current dates on any of the files, but it seems like they have more than thirty years' worth of files to go. Almost everything that's been released has been heavily redacted. Many of them are just plain redundant, or another wild goose chase. Seems as if everyone knew someone they thought was Cooper. 

Look...either Bentz' story is true, or it isn't. It is beyond my abilities to find out. This is a serious issue in my opinion, at least in how it relates to the Cooper case? Did someone higher-up in the organization figure out KC was the guy, or didn't they? Did the Seattle FBI whitewash the Amboy chute find because if they admit it was probably Cooper's, they would have to admit he got away with it while the case was still open? Why didn't the Seattle FBI dispute the obvious wrong reason for the chute's sudden dismissal, i.e. Cossey saying it was made of silk when practically everybody who has seen blow ups of the higher resolution photos of it say 'no way,' including Mark M aka '377'? Why did they not give an exact reason for the dismissal, and why were they calling it 'evidence in an ongoing case' FIVE full years AFTER they dismissed it as evidence to the press and public?

I mean...am I the ONLY one who asks the relevant questions around here? 

Some of you guys out there in Cooperland are soooo fixated on the idea that KC could not possibly be Cooper...no way, no how...even going to the trouble to create BS webpages about it and allow filthy comments toward anyone wondering about KC...that it clouds your judgement sometimes. 

Now I'm not going to sit here and tell you I'm sure KC is Cooper. Because I don't know that. But brother, I promise you that in June I am going to present the full evidence we have as it regards one Troy Bentz and one Special Agent John Jarvis. I think it's the press who should pressure the FBI regarding both KC, but more importantly, the Bentz incident. 

This is what Seattle FBI agent Fred Gutt told me in 2013 after I asked him if the Seattle FBI really HAD dismissed KC as a suspect in the Cooper case:

Quote

"He has not been dismissed. Some in the this office think he's a good suspect. Others think there are better suspects."

I spoke to Fred Gutt on the phone a few times. He was good about answering my emails. And he was about the only person in the Seattle FBI organization who ever gave me a straight answer on anything. 

Media submissions will probably be cut off on or around May 1 for the festival. If any of you have anything to say or present, and can't attend in person, you have about 12 more weeks to get it to us. Just saying. If Eric Ulis is going to be doing some event of his own in November for the anniversary, more power to him. I won't be here for that, but I urge you to go if you can. Our event isn't a convention. It's more of a party and a public presentation over a full weekend, on the Cooper case. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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(edited)

UPDATE: Greg, Kyle, and I are kicking around the idea of allowing anyone and everyone to attend the June festival with just one caveat:

They can show up whether they are on the email list or not. But...they must be able to provide proof they have received the two-shot series of the vaccine. And if their proof is crap, they will be turned away without mercy. And you do have to be over 21. Anyone doubtful we will definitely ask to see their ID. 

However...because we had no way of providing people (other than the ones on the email lists) a copy of the PDF with the maps, directions, contact info for us, speaker list, etc etc....

Greg says we should just release the PDF as a download six weeks prior to the festival, when the media presentations and guest speaker list is finalized. (Like say...a couple of days before any newspaper articles come out. We have two local papers who already want to run stories, but I am making them wait until the date of the festival gets closer.) Also, I told them that we have not 100% finalized this event as yet, although it's looking like we will. Three more people messaged us a second time and said they are definitely showing up, which makes 33 confirmed so far. When they send us their vaccine confirmations in advance by email, then we KNOW they're serious. 

I like this whole idea. The only thing the drop-ins will miss are the monthly email updates, and they could probably get by without them, as long as they can see, and print up, the festival information PDF. It's basically the bible for the event. It's not ready yet because it's too early and we haven't finished filling the media presentations list, or the speaker list. We also don't have a host yet, but we have a couple of candidates in mind. 

Two weeks prior to the festival, we could do a separate web page with all the information contained in the PDF displayed on-screen. And offer the download for printing as well. 

On the way up there to do the setup in June...we could drop off a map and some details about the festival that includes directions to it from the Greenwater Store, maybe 100 copies. The owner wants to cooperate, mainly because he stands to make a lot of money if a bunch of Cooper fans use his store for the last stop before they take the Forest Service road turnoff. It's less than a mile beyond the store. 

I think I like this package, which mostly comes from Greg and Kyle, not me. And I think we will do some changes to the AB website over the weekend. I guess we don't care who shows up...as long as they don't get lost...and they have been vaccinated against Covid-19. That requirement is absolutely NON-NEGOTIABLE. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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(edited)

I see Shutter is discussing the Bentz stuff over at his Cooper Forum. Well, at least he was nice enough in his comments.

Look...I never said it 'wasn't the right time and right place'. (to discuss this issue)

What I said was that figuring out the truth on this was beyond my pay grade. A senior FBI agent? Three guys who work for the US government with security clearances involved in this? Are you kidding me? I did what I could to verify this story. And that was a lot. It was a fairly large allegation and I was very careful to record everything. 

This verification is a job for pros, not me. Think of me as the mailman delivering the available evidence. I'm not a reporter or a detective. I'm a part-time publisher and sci-fi fan who scrubs toilets and floors. ¬¬ Everyone knows that. Who the heck am I to question a senior FBI agent, or determine the truth on things he may have revealed? 

Not me. Better to just prepare the evidentiary package and let others decide whether it has merit. 

Anything that doesn't seem to fair to you (as well as wise) about that, just let me know. 

Besides...would you believe me if I took on this verification on my own, and quoting you positive results? Of course you wouldn't. Don't you think verification by an independent source would be better? I sure do. 

And frankly, tossing the party in June is more than my share of contribution to the Cooper case this year. Everything will be released at that time. I'm not making a big deal of it. After that, I'm backing out of the Cooper Thingie to move forward to something else. Just the idea we could pull this off successfully in the middle of a pandemic that's now killed more American citizens than WW2, the Korean War, and the Vietnam War COMBINED....

If there were some kind of Cooper Olympic Committee, they should give me a damn medal. 

 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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Even if a senior FBI agent thinks a particular suspect is Cooper that doesn't really mean anything. There is an FBI agent who thinks Sheridan Peterson is Cooper. Another says he shot and killed D.B Cooper decades ago (Richard McCoy). Curtis Eng ignored Tom Kaye's forensic findings and focused on LD Cooper until that fizzled into nothing. Himmelsbach may have at one point been convinced by Jo about Duane. FBI agents are real people with differing opinions and are fallible.

Edited by Andrade1812
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I'm tossing pretty much everything we have left regarding KC and the Bentz story out there this June. The video on Bentz will be available at YouTube afterward, as well as a general video on the Festival itself. For now, that's all I got. I have no intention of putting that stuff out there publicly prior to the Festival. 

Besides, everyone in Cooperland either wants me to shut up, go away, not bring up new evidence, or go elsewhere. ^.^

After that, I'm (gladly) moving on to other things and starting to extricate myself from the Vortex. I have an autobiography ('Cooperland') to wrap before the end of the year and publish, as well as packing up and moving to California. Have to save something for June, you know. 2021 makes it 13 years since I emailed Skipp Porteous and proposed a book on Kenny, and where Skipp told me I should get involved in the investigation myself. I still haven't figured out if I did the right thing by emailing him back in 2008 or not. 

I figure 13 years is just about long enough for me. So come June, there will be no more secrets. We will release everything we have remaining and let people decide the merit of it. I modified the AB website today pretty heavily on those two pages regarding the Festival. If we get enough interest by the middle of May or so, after the news articles come out, Greg, Kyle, Gayla, and I will finalize the event. If we don't, I will cancel the whole thing and Greg, his wife, myself, and Gayla will take a ten-day vacation to the Olympics, maybe to Trap Pass. One thing about Trap Pass, the view is tremendous from the end of the Forest Service road there. I would rather do the Festival, but everyone involved understands that there is no point to spending all that money if few are willing to actually show up for it. It's going to be a balancing act and depends on how much interest is generated by the news articles. Usually I wouldn't doubt interest, but with the Covid disaster going, it is hard to predict right now. So I guess it's either Greenwater for the Festival, or a trip to the place shown in the pictures below. We will see. 

CampfireDark.jpg

DuckabushFog1.jpg

EndoftheRoad.jpg

EveningViewSite.jpg

EDIT: If the Festival is a washout, I will still do the video for YouTube on Bentz. Only I will shoot it up in the Olympics. Until the June festival, (assuming we can go forward with it) as well as afterward, our relationship with people involved in the Cooper case will be shifted to a sort of *Modus vivendi* arrangement. 

* an arrangement or agreement allowing conflicting parties to coexist peacefully, either indefinitely or until a final settlement is reached.*

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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(edited)

Bourbon was the top hard liquor drink in the early 70's...  it wasn't rare or exclusive.

The Dan Cooper comics were published in 16 languages... 

It wasn't just published in Spanish for Europe..  it was also published in Spanish in Mexico for Latin America.

Cooper demanded to fly to Mexico, he was described as swarthy Latin/Mexican in features and characteristics...  any potential connection to the Dan Cooper comic would lead to the Mexican Spanish version not the French version of the comic.

Edited by FLYJACK

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11 hours ago, Andrade1812 said:

It seems like it's a little early to be talking about cancelling an event scheduled for June...

Well, I will admit it IS a bit early...everyone on the Planning Committee is pretty nervous. We were able to cut the budget for the festival a bit, but only because I already have so much gear that would work for this gathered over the last three years. But the budget is still over $5,000, most of which has not been spent yet. About 20% of that is dedicated to Amazon gift cards for the Lookalike contest. At some point we have to decide when to go shopping. Mostly Amazon and Costco. 

Greg is putting up the majority of this money, and yes...he can easily afford it. He owns tens of thousands of shares of Microslave stock from his years of working there back in the 90's and taking maximum advantage of the stock option thing. Plus there were many splits back then, etc. You know the story. But...he also says it's pointless to put up so much money if only fifty people show up...and he has a point there too. We would not only waste money, but look foolish doing it. And...he ALSO says we aren't getting any support (much) from Cooperland in our efforts. He thinks you are all ungrateful, frankly speaking, and I tend to agree. 

No matter what Shutter says now about our relationship with the Ariel Store and Bryan Woodruff, the truth is that Woodruff was more than happy to have us come on board for the 2016 Ariel Party. He cleared at least $2,500 at the event in cash, and we don't know how much he made on the credit/debit card donations from the computers we set up inside the tavern. I did see a lot of people whipping out their cards that day. Shutter was not there. Shutter lives in Florida. Shutter stood against us from the beginning. Shutter did not make three heavily-laden trips at 125 miles each way to bring the auction donations and the gear...most of which we left behind because I had no way to get them all back to Auburn. (Things that didn't sell, tables, other stuff.) He WAS NOT THERE, in other words. We even got the store on the frickin' Travel Channel and into several newspapers for chissakes. Why Woodruff suddenly turned on us at Facebook the day after the party, I have absolutely NO clue. It was a big surprise. Greg helped finance that event to a certain degree....so he's watching THIS one closely to see if the same negativity about it...just because AB of Seattle is involved...happens again. 

This stuff is hard to explain to people unless you were there. Bruce Smith lying to people and saying I threatened him at the 2016 Ariel, a story he has not yet retracted...doesn't help things either. We repay that crap by actually offering him the hosting job at a fee of $100 a day...(hard to believe yes. but we did that, YES) and he doesn't even reply to the emails. I told Greg that maybe health issues prevented Smith from driving up there to that site. Or maybe he doesn't like doing the camping thing, either. 

No final decision on whether to go forward, or to cancel, will be made until about two weeks AFTER the newspaper articles come out in April. You can offer people an opportunity, but they don't have to take it. If no one in Cooperland is interested in helping promote this festival, or participate whether in person or by submitting something for it...then why should Greg and I go to the extreme and pay for it all, set it all up? You guys seem to stand against everything we do, not just the few negatives...but everything. Maybe it's just a waste of everyone's time and money. Now, to be fair about it, there are a couple of people from Shutter's forum who are interested, but they seem afraid to say anything about that at the Cooper Forum. I don't see any other Cooper events scheduled for 2021 except ours, and except for some talk (maybe) by Eric Ulis. But then Eric is supposedly running for Congress as well. Does he have the time and resources to do something like we plan to do in June? Or will he schedule another convention at twenty bucks a ticket? I'm okay with that, but I haven't seen any official action on that either, plus his Cooper Con website is now being hosted by a spammer. Makes you wonder. 

For the moment, we will take a wait and see attitude about all of this. See what happens over the next two, two and a half months. There are only three possibilities.

1) Public response (without any support from the Cooperland community) will be great enough to go ahead and finalize/host the event.

2) Public response (WITH support from the Cooperland community) will be great enough to finalize/host the event.

3) Public response will be poor no matter what anyone does, and we will have to cancel. 

UPDATE: I have made some key changes to both the main festival page, and the FAQ page, taking into account these things I'm talking about. 

Of course, the greatest chance the event will happen is if everyone in Cooperland gets behind and pushes. This isn't supposed to be some promotion to benefit Adventure Books of Seattle. It's supposed to offer an opportunity for members of the Cooper community, and a thank-you to Cooper fans from around the Northwest. We will see how it goes. If it doesn't 'go,' then we will admit defeat, cancel the thing, and I will take a well-deserved vacation. Of course, due to Covid, practically EVERYONE in America deserves a vacation. ^_^

6 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Bourbon was the top hard liquor drink in the early 70's...  it wasn't rare or exclusive.

The Dan Cooper comics were published in 16 languages... 

It wasn't just published in Spanish for Europe..  it was also published in Spanish in Mexico for Latin America.

Cooper demanded to fly to Mexico, he was described as swarthy Latin/Mexican in features and characteristics...  any potential connection to the Dan Cooper comic would lead to the Mexican Spanish version not the French version of the comic.

I would go with the comic connection more, but Dan Cooper is such a common name. It would be better if the comic had named that character Barrett McKenzie or something. A more unique name. Hard to say one way or the other. 

One point is that I don't think Cooper had the slightest intention of actually going to Mexico. That was just a ruse on his part, (my theory) to make it more difficult for the cops to know when he jumped. Cooper's mistake was that he didn't know a pressure bump would occur when he jumped. He probably figured the crew would have no way of determining when he jumped, because they wouldn't be SEEING him jump. 

SIDE NOTE: Received second dose of the Pfizer vaccine early this morning from St. Anne's Hospital in Burien, WA. Boy, that place just gets people IN...gets the shot in their arms...and out the same door quick. They have this vaccine thing down to a 'T'. Nurse told me they've already inoculated more than 50,000 people, and have 17,000 doses remaining. (Not sure if she meant 'people' or number of shots given, but it's still a lot for just one hospital.) 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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(edited)

Here is the wrap on everything you just read above, (except for my comments on the Cooper comic).

I will ask you not to jump to conclusions and just start spouting negativity about this issue. Take a couple of weeks to think about the things I said, and what is being offered. Try to avoid making snap judgments and consider what might be best for you, your book perhaps, your theories, your podcast, your websites, as well as public fans of the Cooper case. 

If you have any thoughts, you can reach me at my usual address, [email protected] 

Your emails will not be mentioned publicly, nor will they be published publicly. 

There is no particular rush here. Don't make hasty decisions that not only you, but others might regret. Think a little bit beyond just yourself. An offer like this to Cooperland has not been made before, and probably will not be ever again. If the general Cooper community really believes that such an event is pointless, then just tell me privately and I can make it go away. I told Greg once:

Quote

"I don't go where I'm not wanted..."

But then I don't want to hear any complaining should we decide to cancel, if we feel there is absolutely no support for the Festival in Cooperland. I would absolutely love to do this for both Cooper fans and Cooper investigators/podcast guys/Cooper authors. But if you don't want it, and won't support it, I don't see the sense of continuing on with it. 

There just wouldn't be any point to it. And personally, even if we decided to do it, I don't want to be just one of maybe two or three other voices presenting their stuff. I could do that on YouTube a lot easier...and at much less expense. 

I will be expecting to hear from some of you personally over the next month. If I don't, or you simply ignore this issue...then we will have our answer.  Before any of you go off on some tirade about 'blackmail' or that stuff, consider this: 

This event is nothing more than an offer to both Cooper fans and known Cooper-related folk. If there isn't any real enthusiasm for it, then there isn't any point in dropping all that money, but more importantly...all the EFFORT it takes to do such a thing. If you truly believe it isn't worth anyone's time or support, at least be honest about it before we fully commit to it. 

In the interest of transparency, here is the current situation regarding attendance/interest:

36 names are on the VIP email list and all are receiving updates and invites to participate. Out of those, only two have responded, but none of them have asked to be dropped from the list. (Shutter and Smith are not currently on that list, but they know where the Contact Form lives.)

Almost 200 people are on the Public email list. Those are the people who either emailed us directly, or used the Contact Form. Out of those, 33 have strongly expressed an interest in attending and about 20 have forwarded their vaccine series proof to us. That is where we are now after about three months, with about three and a half months to go. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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(edited)
On 1/4/2021 at 7:18 AM, FLYJACK said:

The matchbook thing is drifting into the weeds...

When we put together the FBI files, Tina's interview and Tosaw's claim..

 

There were two matchbooks, Tina lit the last match from Cooper's matchbook and grabbed one from the plane. Sky Chef was the Airline caterer..  Tosaw claimed Tina described the first matchbook as the ICS one. Agents have admitted to withholding info. I can see the  FBI holding back the ICS info, only Cooper would have known this.

 

The take away is.. though not explicitly stated.. the Sky Chef matchbook most likely came from the plane, not from Cooper. Trying to match Cooper to an external Sky Chef source looks like a red herring.

 

The Sky Chef matches most likely came from the plane..

There were two matchbooks.. the ICS one and the Sky Chef one... Cooper's matchbook ran out and was tossed, he retrieved that one. The ICS one.

Tosaw….  Cooper used up his matchbook then Tina grabbed a company one from the cabinet. Cooper put the used matchbook in his pocket, Tina remembered the ad on the cover “Earn a High School Diploma”

Tina grabbed another matchbook from a cabinet and he "retained that one"... though not explicitly revealed, it had to be the Sky Chef matchbook as they were the caterer for the plane. Otherwise, there had to be three matchbooks involved..

The statements if accurate, evidence and logic indicate that the Sky Chef matchbook came from the plane. 

 

FBI files..

"He also wanted the empty matchbook cover from which he had been lighting his cigarettes and had thrown into the back pouch of the seat in front as she said she would do with trash. She indicated he had another book of matches the cover of which was blue and said, ''Sky Chef.”  from which she pulled matches to light his cigarettes. He retained this book of matches."

Edited by FLYJACK

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4 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

A Northwest Orient drink menu from 1957...

Includes six Bourbon's and "soft drinks" include 7up,, no soda.

"no tipping please"

if served in Washington State tax included..

 

57-NWOdrinkmenu.thumb.jpg.8d857b24b5ebc0390d8f9f3cee75ec6b.jpg

Also in 1957, the Seven-Up people were running commercials produced exclusively by Disney...and these commercials were run on the TV show 'Zorro,' with Guy Williams. 

What does all this have to do with the Cooper case? Not much. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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(edited)

Greg has been reading posts here, and to a certain extent over at the Cooper Forum. 

He says this today:

"Bob, we can't allow any newspapers to do articles if we aren't sure we will actually host the Festival..."

Also this:

"There seems to be little, if any, interest by Cooper investigators or authors to participate. If there is, I haven't seen it."

And finally:

"I will make the call whether to proceed by March 30."

Robert says: I am in agreement with Greg on this one. We announced this event three months ago. Although there is some interest from the public, it's obvious to me (as well as Greg) that few in Cooperland are really interested. Greg and his wife have told me that they don't want to go into the Olympics, but would rather visit the Oregon coast. I am already looking for ten-day rentals near Seaside, and in Newport. 

I'm just glad I didn't jump the gun and start buying stuff at Amazon that would have no other purpose other than the Festival. If things change between now and March 30, then maybe things will change. But at this point, I don't see it happening. 

I will do a video out in the Olympics prior to June regarding the Troy Bentz/Agent John Jarvis allegations though...as I promised. That will be released at YouTube at the proper time. 

EDIT: Just got off the phone with Greg a second time. He says he wants to cancel now. Doesn't think we should wait until March 30. Or in his words, "If any of those people were interested, they would have contacted us by now."

The event is officially canceled. YouTube video has been deleted, as well as the Quora and WordPress stuff. Also all references and pages about it at Facebook and Adventure Books of Seattle. I sent out one final group email to both the VIP list and the public list, and then deleted the lists. I made an apology on the public list email. I did move the names and email addresses of the 33 people who WERE interested onto a separate email list, who will be invited to one of our smaller 'Cooper Campouts' later. (See below) 

It was worth a shot anyway. I have no regrets. There just wasn't any interest among Cooperland. Better to figure that out early, rather than waiting and stretching it out. If this were a 'normal' year (non Covid) maybe things would have been different. But Greg is right. I was holding out more hope than he did. He did say that he noticed that every time I made an announcement about the event here at DZ...no one said a thing about it. I'm planning to do a video on the Bentz/Jarvis allegation in late March, out in the Olympics. I may invite the 33 people (from the public list) to a more private gathering this summer, but in a slightly different location. No Forest Service permit needed for that, since that will be less than 75 people. My thanks to them for their interest. I will probably invite another 20 or so people, ones who attended previous 'Cooper Campouts' for this one, and we will still do a Lookalike contest, only the prizes will be a bit smaller of course. :handok:

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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(edited)

A recent quote by Robert99 over at the DB Cooper Forum:

Quote

"According to a late post on Dropzone, RMB writes that he is cancelling the Festival in the Woods, or whatever he calls it, and instead might personally spend the time at the beach with Greg this summer.  Apparently the right type of people were not signing up for the event.

Hopefully, Meso will lock that DZ thread again."

Come on, Robert99. There wasn't enough interest among the known Cooper folk, that's all. It was just a proposal anyway. No use running a festival on Cooper if only two people from Cooperland even showed an interest, right? It's not that big a deal. What I said is that Greg the Techie Guy, (since all of us took ten days off work in advance for the festival) might want to take a trip to the Oregon coast instead. He hasn't taken a vacation in more than two years. It's been a while for me as well...mostly due to the Covid crap. That block of time off work seemed perfect to do an Oregon vacation. That's all. The women, of course...were all in favor of this. No surprise there. ^_^ Lighten up, sir. 

There is no reason for you to call for the 'locking' of this thread. At least here, when people post up a link to their latest podcast, or their website, or their book at Amazon...the public can actually see it. Over where you hang out, only registered members can see those things. I'm not going to harp on you or Shutter about that again, but I still think it doesn't make sense. But that is Shutter's business. 

Greg and I simply made an offer. There wasn't enough interest to continue the offer. At least we found out before we started spending real money on the festival. That would have been way worse, and hard for me to explain to Greg. 

Like...what do we do NOW with a portable stage. LOL I would have had a hard time explaining that expenditure to him. B)

It's all good, as they say. The event is canceled. Let's move on. 

EDIT: I knew it. NOW come the emails. I'm telling these people to make their comments here at DZ. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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The Cooper Vortex Podcast with Tim Collins... (2 parts)

https://thecoopervortex.podbean.com/e/db-cooper-confessed-to-his-wife-part-one-tim-collins/

 

I really like Tim Collins logical approach to analyzing information. The real problem with the Cooper case is that there are few concrete facts, lots of inferences and deductions.. some conflicting information. 

We are forced to make assumptions to advance knowledge..  those assumptions may be correct or not but they are necessary to advance thinking.

Tim uses probabilities to analyze and evaluate relationships and I do the same,, it is math, logic and reason applied to relationships and data points. We all have different experiences to bring to that analysis, some are better at it than others.

The problem is we don't have all the information, we don't even know what we don't know.. so applying any good analytical methodologies is undermined by the accuracy and comprehensiveness of the information used. The inability to see this flaw leads people to a false confidence in the applied logic... That process may be perfect but if the underlying data is unreliable/inaccurate then we end up with false conclusions. I see this same pattern with all the high profile suspects.

 

 

For example, not necessarily errors in logic but basic case assumptions. If your premise or assumption is wrong your analysis is wrong.

Cooper had cig stains on his right hand. (FBI doc). Tim assumed he had them on the left based on Cooper being seen with his right hand in the case and he used that to support Duane as Cooper. His assumption was wrong and it actually eliminates Duane.

The tie was shown to Penny's employees and they indicated that narrow ties had not been sold in a few years..  Tim incorrectly assumes the Cooper tie was from circa 1969.. It was not, the labels on the tie prove it was circa 1964/65.. those narrow ties were made throughout the sixties probably into the 50's but the labels changed over time and Cooper's tie can be roughly dated. The estimate of a couple years old only refers to the shape of the tie not the actual Cooper tie.

 

 

My personal communications with Jo Weber years ago is that she is an accomplished manipulator and serial liar. Nothing she says or presents can be taken as legit. I feel sorry for Duane...

 

Duane was not Cooper,,, the circumstantial evidence for is very very weak and there is exculpatory evidence, same as most of the suspects.

 

Tim said he doesn't participate in forums and hasn't read all the FBI files...   This Cooper case takes more than probabilities and logic, you need a very high level case knowledge.

 

 

 

 

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