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A bunch of interesting things...  from newspapers which are not always accurate.

Drop test followed the flight path... the FBI docs claim a sled was dropped over the Ocean, that makes sense. The FBI plan was to follow the Norjak path. It is likely they did follow the path and then dropped the sled over the Ocean. Remember, the FBI claimed the placard could have come from the test flight. Now, we know Norjak did not have the emergency release system.

 

cooperflighttest.jpeg.31a6cce0549c52f2575c710d29db1d3d.jpeg

 

Now, this is very crucial.

This newspaper piece is confirmed by the FBI files.

The rear stair light was on early, then when Tina went to the cockpit she saw a red light come on. The FBI assumed the first light was the stairs being unlocked and the second was the stairs locked down. This is wrong.

There are two lights in the cockpit..

Amber light, the lever is moved out of the detent position. 

Green light, the rear stairs are locked down.

 

Tina said she saw a red light go on around 8:00..  the light was amber but can be mistaken for red. The means at around 8:00 the lever was moved from the up detent position. The light wasn't green and the stairs were never locked down. The FBI is wrong, the second light was not the stairs in a locked down position.

The only way these events could be resolved..

Cooper or Tina moved the lever from the detent position early (about 7:42ish) causing the amber aft stair light to go on in the cockpit. The crew said the light was on for some time. The lever was then returned to the up position and the light would have gone off. Then Tina in the cockpit saw the light go back on when Cooper moved the lever from the detent position around 8:00...

It is likely that Cooper pulled the lever back to the up detent position then to open while struggling to get the aft stairs to go down. 

This indicates that stairs were closed near 8:00..

 

stairlight2.jpeg.d76142cd4e6f1eb6d435eb5aa8df7fd8.jpeg

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Ticket agent remember's Cooper had "black hair"..  Bill Mitchell also thought his hair looked odd like it was dyed..

cooperticketagent.jpeg.f414f3dd4be6c432a12cdbb057dda3f7.jpeg

 

This is odd.. an FAA official boarded the plane. (claimed)

Was this the mysterious FBI agent many passengers saw on the plane?? or the person the crew claimed was a passenger trying to get back on the plane??

 

officialboardplane.jpeg.ee1cc09342ecd1ff550d6cf2f9b178f1.jpeg

 

Geoffrey Gray mentioned pills for the crew...  here it is.

Cooper also got food for the crew.

113071oregonianbenzedrenefood.jpeg.dab44c41eaa002ca3b2addde41c30837.jpeg

Edited by FLYJACK

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The problem with the sled test...

The sled test assumes that Cooper stood at the end and jumped. The sudden full weight gone causing stairs to bang up.

What if Cooper walked down the stairs backward and slowly let his body off the end while holding on to the rails. His weight on the stairs would have been significantly reduced and the air would have lifted his body..  his weight wouldn't have been on the stairs.

Then hanging on with his body off the end, he just let go..

This method would not have caused the airstairs to bang up.

What did cause the bump,, Cooper may have initially gone part way down the stairs then back up..

 

 

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29 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Ticket agent remember's Cooper had "black hair"..  Bill Mitchell also thought his hair looked odd like it was dyed..

cooperticketagent.jpeg.f414f3dd4be6c432a12cdbb057dda3f7.jpeg

 

This is odd.. an FAA official boarded the plane. (claimed)

Was this the mysterious FBI agent many passengers saw on the plane?? or the person the crew claimed was a passenger trying to get back on the plane??

 

officialboardplane.jpeg.ee1cc09342ecd1ff550d6cf2f9b178f1.jpeg

 

Geoffrey Gray mentioned pills for the crew...  here it is.

Cooper also got food for the crew.

113071oregonianbenzedrenefood.jpeg.dab44c41eaa002ca3b2addde41c30837.jpeg

Benzedrine makes me think of truck drivers trying to stay awake. Air crews too. 

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This is interesting,, I know there were many hoax tips.. and this may be another.

 

But here the runway across the River near I5 would be Pearson Airport which is very close to the flightpath..

I looked for a pond but couldn't find any really close but hard to tell for 1971, there appears to have been one about a half mile East of the runway back then.. it is no longer there. It is almost right under the flightpath.

 

i5pond.jpeg.2a1f7e62fff7e364e6dc183968c6d058.jpeg

Edited by FLYJACK

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4 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

The sled test assumes that Cooper stood at the end and jumped. The sudden full weight gone causing stairs to bang up.

What if Cooper walked down the stairs backward and slowly let his body off the end while holding on to the rails. His weight on the stairs would have been significantly reduced and the air would have lifted his body..  his weight wouldn't have been on the stairs.

Then hanging on with his body off the end, he just let go..

This method would not have caused the airstairs to bang up.

That's an interesting thought. Not sure what the percentage of weight difference affecting the stairs would be, I would think that would depend partly on the airspeed. It is known that that is how McNally exited, are there reports on stair response / pressure bump for his exit?

Still, there would be a singular moment when whatever weight effect is removed. As opposed to...

4 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

What did cause the bump,, Cooper may have initially gone part way down the stairs then back up..

I wouldn't think that would cause the pressure bump, because the weight transfer would be more gradual.

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1 hour ago, dudeman17 said:

I wouldn't think that would cause the pressure bump, because the weight transfer would be more gradual.

In my mind, I think it would but without a real world experiment we don't really know. We don't have the unsprung force data..

 

The top 4 stairs are fixed and the last 11 are levered..

The airtairs were about level when open and at speed with no weight,,  the end opening may have been 1.5 - 2 ft.

If Cooper went part way, a few steps how far would the stairs have dropped? If they dropped only 2 ft more then they could have sprung back up and hit the top. You don't need the stairs to drop very far below level to recover the 1.5 - 2 ft gap above level.

The key is the stasis/level vs the range of motion..

 

 

 

stairs.jpg~original.jpg

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11 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

A bunch of interesting things...  from newspapers which are not always accurate.

Drop test followed the flight path... the FBI docs claim a sled was dropped over the Ocean, that makes sense. The FBI plan was to follow the Norjak path. It is likely they did follow the path and then dropped the sled over the Ocean. Remember, the FBI claimed the placard could have come from the test flight. Now, we know Norjak did not have the emergency release system.

 

cooperflighttest.jpeg.31a6cce0549c52f2575c710d29db1d3d.jpeg

 

Now, this is very crucial.

This newspaper piece is confirmed by the FBI files.

The rear stair light was on early, then when Tina went to the cockpit she saw a red light come on. The FBI assumed the first light was the stairs being unlocked and the second was the stairs locked down. This is wrong.

There are two lights in the cockpit..

Amber light, the lever is moved out of the detent position. 

Green light, the rear stairs are locked down.

 

Tina said she saw a red light go on around 8:00..  the light was amber but can be mistaken for red. The means at around 8:00 the lever was moved from the up detent position. The light wasn't green and the stairs were never locked down. The FBI is wrong, the second light was not the stairs in a locked down position.

The only way these events could be resolved..

Cooper or Tina moved the lever from the detent position early (about 7:42ish) causing the amber aft stair light to go on in the cockpit. The crew said the light was on for some time. The lever was then returned to the up position and the light would have gone off. Then Tina in the cockpit saw the light go back on when Cooper moved the lever from the detent position around 8:00...

It is likely that Cooper pulled the lever back to the up detent position then to open while struggling to get the aft stairs to go down. 

This indicates that stairs were closed near 8:00..

 

stairlight2.jpeg.d76142cd4e6f1eb6d435eb5aa8df7fd8.jpeg

Here is the FBI doc on the aft stair light in cockpit..

The red light (actually amber) only goes on when the lever is moved from the up detent...  the aft stair light locked down is green. Tina said about 8 PM that the red light came on.

stairlight.jpeg.acca4dbe5eff921b7fa90bfe71bdbe46.jpeg

 

Tina red light go on..

tinaredlight.jpeg.053c41290300f98a2b7d015bc77052c3.jpeg

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Quote

 

'Cooper or Tina moved the lever from the detent position early (about 7:42ish) causing the amber aft stair light to go on in the cockpit. The crew said the light was on for some time. The lever was then returned to the up position and the light would have gone off. Then Tina in the cockpit saw the light go back on when Cooper moved the lever from the detent position around 8:00...

It is likely that Cooper pulled the lever back to the up detent position then to open while struggling to get the aft stairs to go down. 

This indicates that stairs were closed near 8:00..'

Makes sense. It is also known that one of the flight crew, probably Captain Scott according to the record, called back to Cooper at around 8:05 PM, and that he answered the interphone. Which means he was still on board at that time. Pressure bump happened not long afterward. The only REALLY important part is When Did Cooper Leave the Aircraft. 

On a side note, Greg the Techie Guy finally completed his modifications to the AB office computers, although we already had the computers themselves mostly installed. Added: 32 GB of TeamGroup Elite RAM to each machine (expandable to 64) and mid-grade Nvidia GeForce video cards. Frankly, I am not a big fan of either Windows 10 or Dell machines, but we ended up buying a pair of Optiplex 7060's running the I-7 processors for less than $500 each, which is an absolute steal. Then Greg upgraded them. Much of one computer's HDD is dedicated to DB Cooper files and pictures, and the first thing I noticed was I was able to access the files as fast as lightning. Still have to get used to Windows 10, though. 

We still had two clean copies of Win 7 Ultimate, but support for Win 7 ends well...tomorrow, believe it or not. I thought about installing 7 and then running the updates quickly until they were solid and then going Win 7 for another few years (we have excellent security anyway)...but in the end I decided to go with Win 10. I will miss Win 7 for sure. All of these updates will help us access, use, and present everything Cooper we have a lot easier. And since we're (finally, after a long hiatus) going to start releasing new books again at AB this year, creating the covers, text files, and Kindle versions will be a cinch. 

Plus...I saw right away that when I play World of Tanks, the difference is amazing. 'Fear The KV-1!' B) That's a bit of a joke. 

But the main thing is that these upgrades to our little home office will make it easier for everything we do...including our (limited) investigation into the Cooper case. We've cut back on our active investigation quite a bit, but we do have hundreds of gigs stored on his bailout-jumping, money-stealing ass. And someday those gigs may come in useful. We started collecting and storing them back in 2008. :handok:

NOTE: There will be no additional text updates, or questions answered at Dropzone regarding the June 4-6 50th Anniversary D.B. Cooper Festival. This is the best approach for everyone who posts here, and I think we can all agree it has been discussed plenty enough at Dropzone. You're probably just as tired of reading those updates as much as I am posting them. ENOUGH. 

All questions should be directed through the proper channel at our main website. That means the Contact Form, or through the public email address at [email protected] However, when we release the promotional video we're filming up around Mt. Rainier in the next week or two, I will post the link to the video at YouTube when it is ready. Commonly known folks surrounding the Cooper case are welcome to participate in one of three ways: (Listen up, because this is official and the only notice you will receive at DZ.) 

1) They can apply to join the Planning Committee and have some input on the whole program, even if they can't attend. 

2) They can attend in person WITHOUT a submission.

3) They can attend in person WITH a submission. All submissions must be arrranged in advance.  

4) They can participate remotely by submitting their evidentiary video, short film on Cooper, or book promo video for the festival. If it is a video or short film you want presented at the festival, I will give you some hints on how to shoot it so that it shows properly on the big screen. PLEASE do not pitch me HERE. I will simply refer you to the Contact Form at the main website. No firm cutoff date has been set, but anything subbed after April 30 will probably be too late for inclusion.

5) You can watch our planned (approximately 90 minute) video afterward at YouTube. That one will be linked pretty much everywhere we hang out and probably released in early July after editing. 

Legal Notice: *By submitting your video or short film presentation, you grant Adventure Books of Seattle a one-time license to show it at the festival, and grant us the right to possibly include it in the main video for YouTube later. You retain all other rights.* 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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Well, I don't understand Shutter's comment about the aft stair light in the cockpit..

The FBI docs and Tina's claims are consistent that two lights came on,, one at about 7:42 and one about 8:00..  There are only two lights, a green one for stairs locked down and an amber light triggered when the handle is moved from the up detent.

The second light was reported as red by Tina which can be mistaken for amber and the stairs were never locked down. 

That can only mean the handle was moved from the up detent and back at some point then forward again.

 

Also, the sled test.

Anderson was the pilot not Rat.. they discussed running the flightpath in the planning stage.. it makes no sense that they would not fly the fightpath given the opportunity. But, they dropped the sled over the Ocean. I have no doubt that they would have flown the flightpath, then headed out over the Ocean to drop the sled.

Edited by FLYJACK

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1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

Well, I don't understand Shutter's comment about the aft stair light in the cockpit..

The FBI docs and Tina's claims are consistent that two lights came on,, one at about 7:42 and one about 8:00..  There are only two lights, a green one for stairs locked down and an amber light triggered when the handle is moved from the up detent.

The second light was reported as red by Tina which can be mistaken for amber and the stairs were never locked down. 

That can only mean the handle was moved from the up detent and back at some point then forward again.

 

Also, the sled test.

Anderson was the pilot not Rat.. they discussed running the flightpath in the planning stage.. it makes no sense that they would not fly the fightpath given the opportunity. But, they dropped the sled over the Ocean. I have no doubt that they would have flown the flightpath, then headed out over the Ocean to drop the sled.

Stairs were never locked down. EVER. If they HAD been, the jet stood a good chance of fishtailing upon touchdown in Reno, and the damage to the stairs would have been devastating. Not to mention the noise of the stairs being torn to shreds on the runway. 

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22 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

In my mind, I think it would but without a real world experiment we don't really know. We don't have the unsprung force data..

 

The top 4 stairs are fixed and the last 11 are levered..

The airtairs were about level when open and at speed with no weight,,  the end opening may have been 1.5 - 2 ft.

If Cooper went part way, a few steps how far would the stairs have dropped? If they dropped only 2 ft more then they could have sprung back up and hit the top. You don't need the stairs to drop very far below level to recover the 1.5 - 2 ft gap above level.

The key is the stasis/level vs the range of motion..

 

 

 

stairs.jpg~original.jpg

The farther he descends the stairs, the more his weight would open them, fulcrums, leverage and all that. As he walked back up, that leverage would reverse. I guess the question then would be, how much effect on the stairs does his weight give at the fifth step, the first one past the hinge.

 

-------------------------

 

8 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Well, I don't understand Shutter's comment about the aft stair light in the cockpit..

 

The last line in this document seems to indicate that the 'fully extended' light came on...

 

18 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

 

stairlight.jpeg.acca4dbe5eff921b7fa90bfe71bdbe46.jpeg

 

 

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23 minutes ago, dudeman17 said:

 

 

 

The last line in this document seems to indicate that the 'fully extended' light came on...

 

 

Yes, that is the problem,,  that light is green and comes on when locked down.

Tina said red light came on (about 8:00) and the stairs couldn't have been locked down.

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The stairs were never locked down. That's obvious. Otherwise they would have gone to shreds on the ground in Reno. I have no idea why this is even being considered. If the stairs were locked, there would be no partial retraction when Cooper jumped, there would be major damage and perhaps a cartwheel all over the runway for one 727. To even consider this possibility is nothing short of ridiculous. 

If the stairs could be retracted successfully from the cockpit, the crew would have done that and no damage would have occurred on landing. But some damage was incurred. I don't believe they can be retracted or even lowered from the cockpit. You have to use the hydraulic system in the rear, and to my knowledge this cannot be done from the cockpit anyway. 

Trusting Tina Mucklow on this one is shaky. She wasn't a pilot or a flight engineer. Two lights. Amber and green. Green only comes on when stairs are locked down, although it is possible it flashed green for a moment just prior to Cooper's jump, but it would have settled back to amber right away. 

Previous reports have stated that only the amber light came on, and then flashed OFF for a moment when Cooper jumped. But then it came back on and stayed on all the way to Reno. If this is truly what happened, the reason the amber light went OFF for a moment would be because the stairs rebounded to a point just enough to trigger the amber light to the OFF position. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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4 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

The stairs were never locked down... ... I have no idea why this is even being considered.

As usual you totally miss the point. Nobody is claiming they were. But the last line in the above document indicates that the 'fully extended' light flashed. (Whether or not that is actually true.) I think that is what prompted Shutter's comment.

5 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

nothing short of ridiculous...

Describes most of your comments.

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1 hour ago, dudeman17 said:

As usual you totally miss the point. Nobody is claiming they were. But the last line in the above document indicates that the 'fully extended' light flashed. (Whether or not that is actually true.) I think that is what prompted Shutter's comment.

Describes most of your comments.

You guys have a boring habit *sometimes* of over-explaining the trivial. Cooper managed to pop the stairs. Once he got them to drop, he found only 24-36 inches of headroom while packing an NB6 or 8 on his back, along with 22 pounds of money tied around his waist.

The noise from the three jet engines above his head were certainly deafening. 

Still, after all of that, he managed to reach the bottom of the stairs and jump. Maybe he just jumped. Maybe he backed down while holding a handrail and pulled the ripcord when he reached the bottom stair, and let the chute squid away first and pull him off the stairs into the dark. Maybe he did a freefall trusting the main he donned without a working reserve would work. No one really knows. 

None of it matters a bit, or they would have found the body or something else by now. As far as Shutter, I wouldn't take his word that day is light and night is dark. While he worries about his image in Cooperland, we do stuff like THIS^_^

I dropped this little nothing video on YouTube for Cooperland not long prior to the pandemic.

It still applies today, my friend. The film was not realized (yet) but the basic message stands. 

 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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1963 Boeing in flight airstair opening test,,  opened only 12 inches.

Says couldn't be forced any more,, I assume that means using the control lever,, not standing on the stairs.  

So, if Cooper's initial try to open the stairs resulted in a 12 inch opening then he could have, in his struggle, put the lever back to up detent then forward causing the light to flash twice.. and going down the stairs would have been the only way to get them open, he may have gone down to test and back up.

 

boeingtest.jpeg.18a58f363f2fec81689f828f50f34903.jpeg

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The only way the light flashed or was seen twice was if the lever was moved from the up detent then back to the up detent then from the up detent...

The light in the cockpit is triggered when the lever is moved from the up detent not when the stairs move or bounce up.

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I think co-pilot Bill Rataczak said the stairs would drop something like 18-24 inches if released in flight, and that the airflow would hold them up. I am not sure on the exact wiring for the indicator lights. If you are trying to establish an exact jump time here, that almost certainly would be the time of the reported pressure bump seen in the cockpit. Crew only reported feeling one 'bounce' up in the cockpit. 

In other words, if Cooper's actions somehow forced the bump, and he had actually gone back up (for some reason) back into the main body of the jet, there would have been a second bump somewhere along the line when he actually jumped. So the time of the jump has to be in correlation with the only bump reported by the crew. 

image.jpeg.15f5096d704d70aa9978b1ff5bdad5ac.jpeg

My favorite part of all the testimony that Rataczak has done over the years was when he told the San Francisco newspaper (Examiner, I think) that he wanted to fly out over the ocean and let Cooper jump THERE. This idea was rejected, of course. 

(EDIT: I see the weather is okay for today up near Mount Rainier, but not tomorrow, and next weekend is looking even worse for rain, according to Weather Underground's ten-day forecast. Today is calling for little to no rain, with some overcast, but not bad. Since this is a narrow window, I have decided to shoot the promotional video for the Festival TODAY, and release it soon after I return and do some minor editing. When it's ready, I will post the link to the video (YouTube) here, and then at Cooper Quora (in the form of an article), Facebook, WordPress Cooper, a couple of other places, and embed it into the appropriate page at AB of Seattle. Preparing and charging gear now, will be leaving soon.)

I know some of you hope I fall off a cliff doing the video today, but my thanks to the folks who don'tB) 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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This might make it clearer...

 

FBI files and news report that two aft stair lights came on.

First at 7:42, second about 8:04, right before Cooper says everything OK.

Timestamps from transmissions are at end of transmission, event is prior.

 

7:36 est. take off

(7:40 est) 4 minutes after takeoff Tina went forward (Tina)

7:42 air stair light on Tina with us, (Pilot)

7:45 have stair light on (still), (Pilot)

(7:50 est) = 10 min later Cooper call can’t get stairs down (Tina)

7:54 Tina said Cooper has “knapsack" tied to waist

time estimate…  Tina noticed red stair light “go on” (Tina)

8:04/5 FBI - seconds before Cooper says “everything OK” stair light comes on (claim stairs fully extended) 

8:05 Cooper said everything OK (AF radar has plane N of Pigeon Springs and E of Ostranger Wa.)

8:12 getting oscillations

 

 

The cockpit only has two aft stair lights..

amber = stairs not locked up lever not in up detent position

and green = locked down

 

How could Cooper go down the stairs at 8:04/5 fully extended/locked to trigger the light and return to the interphone at 8:05 to say everything OK...  and no oscillations or bump was noticed.

He can't...  the second light must have been the amber light (Tina said red) handle moving in and out of the up detent position.

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(edited)
5 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

This might make it clearer...

 

FBI files and news report that two aft stair lights came on.

First at 7:42, second about 8:04, right before Cooper says everything OK.

Timestamps from transmissions are at end of transmission, event is prior.

 

7:36 est. take off

(7:40 est) 4 minutes after takeoff Tina went forward (Tina)

7:42 air stair light on Tina with us, (Pilot)

7:45 have stair light on (still), (Pilot)

(7:50 est) = 10 min later Cooper call can’t get stairs down (Tina)

7:54 Tina said Cooper has “knapsack" tied to waist

time estimate…  Tina noticed red stair light “go on” (Tina)

8:04/5 FBI - seconds before Cooper says “everything OK” stair light comes on (claim stairs fully extended) 

8:05 Cooper said everything OK (AF radar has plane N of Pigeon Springs and E of Ostranger Wa.)

8:12 getting oscillations

 

 

The cockpit only has two aft stair lights..

amber = stairs not locked up lever not in up detent position

and green = locked down

 

How could Cooper go down the stairs at 8:04/5 fully extended/locked to trigger the light and return to the interphone at 8:05 to say everything OK...  and no oscillations or bump was noticed.

He can't...  the second light must have been the amber light (Tina said red) handle moving in and out of the up detent position.

This is accurate....

(est) Tina said about 10 min after she went to Cockpit. Then later noticed red light "go on".. the exact time isn't precise and isn't important here.

Several FBI docs and media report have a second light flash right before 8:05, that is the problem. That is the context. That second light could not have been the green stairs locked down..

 

stairlight.jpeg

Edited by FLYJACK

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(edited)

No one reported going to the aft after Cooper jumped until the plane landed in Reno. And I doubt the stairs were locked down in any case. Had they been locked down, that jet stood a good chance of cartwheeling all over the runway in Reno. Maybe the on and off stuff was simply due to the stairs rebounding. Rataczak has explained this in detail. From the interview by Skipp Porteous for Into The Blast, a reprise: (Key points underlined by me, and I added the information regarding Paul Soderlind.

Quote

Rataczak:


'Paul (Soderlind, Flight Ops Director, NWA) and many others did a lot of work trying to determine the exact area in general, and then tried to narrow down where the hijacker could have landed after he jumped from the airplane. They finally determined the likely spot. Well, our crew on board was 99% sure they were correct because we felt a tremendous amount of pressure bump in our ears when the aft stairs rebounded when they closed. It would be like rolling down and rolling back up the window with a vast crank on your car when you’re speeding down the highway, which is something we’ve all experienced with our ears. 
    We also got confirmation on the Flight Engineer’s panel indicating that the stairs had momentarily closed. I make the analogy that walking down those aft stairs during flight was like walking to the end of a diving board. The more you weigh, the more the board will bend, and when Cooper finally jumped from it, the stairs rebounded and sort of came back to neutral. Well, the stairs were open about thirty to thirty-six inches under the air-stream after Cooper opened the door—that’s just the natural point where they will fall – the gap between the bottom of the stairs and the closure point in flight. When he walked out there his weight made the steps open further the farther he went down. Then, he was certainly able to jump from the bottom step. So we pretty much know when he jumped. 

Where he jumped was up to air-traffic control to coordinate with our technical people. They plotted an area based on winds that were prevalent at that time, and then, of course, there were different approaches to his fall that could have occurred. When did he deploy the chute, for example? Did he deploy it immediately? If he did, then he would be carried farther from the jump point by the wind...'

 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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