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The History channel show had some TBAR find footage that I hadn't seen before..

The distance from the Columbia River waterline to the find is about 35 feet,, 40 tops.

 

The slope is 10%. That means the money was 3.5 - 4 ft above the River.

 

You don't need a flood event for the River to reach the money find spot.

 

The claim that ONLY the '72 and '74 flood reached the money spot is false.

 

A high tide or boat wake would reach that spot. This is consistent with reports at the time that the money was found along the high water mark.

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11 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

The History channel show had some TBAR find footage that I hadn't seen before..

The distance from the Columbia River waterline to the find is about 35 feet,, 40 tops.

The slope is 10%. That means the money was 3.5 - 4 ft above the River.

You don't need a flood event for the River to reach the money find spot.

The claim that ONLY the '72 and '74 flood reached the money spot is false.

A high tide or boat wake would reach that spot. This is consistent with reports at the time that the money was found along the high water mark.

Well, everyone has their own theory regarding HOW the money arrived at Tina Bar. And despite all the fluff that has gone on TV or put in a little black dress about it, (so-called 'western flight path') I still believe the money was deliberately placed in the general area by the hijacker sometime AFTER November 24, 1976. 

Many people ignore the fact that when the FBI went around the Statute of Limitations, which was coincidentally...November 24, 1976...that this news was published heavily all over the Great Northwest. In addition, much was made in the weeks and months PRIOR to the Statute running out because it was assumed that Cooper would be free and clear on the day afterward. Whether state charges could be brought against Cooper is another matter, and unclear, but...the newspapers and TV/radio media were going heavy on the idea that Cooper would be free. That's what THEY were saying at the time. 

If you believe Cooper survived the jump, you also have to figure he would subscribe to a Northwest newspaper and watch TV news as well. And if anything popped up on Cooper...you can bet his ears perked up on every word. This conclusion also puts forward another fact:  Cooper, even if he didn't go to the local library and look it up...would have known just like everyone else around here that the Statute was coming up to expiration, and would have looked forward to that day.

So let's say he and everyone are totally blindsided by the FBI going around the Federal stature, and now he realizes that since they have a warrant, even a John Doe warrant...that they can keep renewing that warrant and keep seeking to catch him for the remainder of his life. Must have been crushing to him. A real bummer for sure. One day you are getting ready to toss a party, although you might not tell the attendees the WHY of the party. The next day you know for certain you will be hunted for life. 

As Keanu Reeves said in Speed

Quote

'What do you do? What do you DO?'

I would have done exactly as I believe Cooper did. Try something that might convince the FBI to stop looking for you. Or at least not dedicating so many resources to it. And if this is what he did...it worked, because the FBI started saying they DID think Cooper was now dead, and they DID cut back on the search to a degree. 

On a side note, no changes will be made to the Cooper Party plans right now. We're in a holding pattern. Two more inquiries came in today. I'm beginning to believe we won't have any trouble on attendance, and like my old man used to say:

"Don't change the plan." and "Don't mess with success." 

We're still over six months out on this one, so I told Greg and the other guy to relax. Everything is fine, I said. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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Bundles and packets and packets and bundles... Oh my.

For a long time I thought the money could have only arrived on TBAR in some type of container for the three packets to be found close together.. wrong.

Until I looked for the rubber band evidence,, there isn't any other than there were rubber band frags stuck to the packets which crumbled away when touched. They were NOT intact.

Also, the money was given to Cooper in packets of 100 bills rubber banded into individual bundles. Those bundles had a random number of packets.

 

So,,, if the three packets were rubber banded together into bundles as they were when given to Cooper, how did they get separated before landing on TBAR... easiest answer that fits the evidence..

They didn't, the three packets were most likely rubber banded into a single bundle and landed on TBAR as ONE single bundle (FBI). As the rubber bands holding the bundle (of 3 packets) together deteriorated the three packets separated.

There is no evidence that the three packets arrived on TBAR individually but together.

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21 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Well, everyone has their own theory regarding HOW the money arrived at Tina Bar. And despite all the fluff that has gone on TV or put in a little black dress about it, (so-called 'western flight path') I still believe the money was deliberately placed in the general area by the hijacker sometime AFTER November 24, 1976. 

Many people ignore the fact that when the FBI went around the Statute of Limitations, which was coincidentally...November 24, 1976...that this news was published heavily all over the Great Northwest. In addition, much was made in the weeks and months PRIOR to the Statute running out because it was assumed that Cooper would be free and clear on the day afterward. Whether state charges could be brought against Cooper is another matter, and unclear, but...the newspapers and TV/radio media were going heavy on the idea that Cooper would be free. That's what THEY were saying at the time. 

If you believe Cooper survived the jump, you also have to figure he would subscribe to a Northwest newspaper and watch TV news as well. And if anything popped up on Cooper...you can bet his ears perked up on every word. This conclusion also puts forward another fact:  Cooper, even if he didn't go to the local library and look it up...would have known just like everyone else around here that the Statute was coming up to expiration, and would have looked forward to that day.

So let's say he and everyone are totally blindsided by the FBI going around the Federal stature, and now he realizes that since they have a warrant, even a John Doe warrant...that they can keep renewing that warrant and keep seeking to catch him for the remainder of his life. Must have been crushing to him. A real bummer for sure. One day you are getting ready to toss a party, although you might not tell the attendees the WHY of the party. The next day you know for certain you will be hunted for life. 

As Keanu Reeves said in Speed

I would have done exactly as I believe Cooper did. Try something that might convince the FBI to stop looking for you. Or at least not dedicating so many resources to it. And if this is what he did...it worked, because the FBI started saying they DID think Cooper was now dead, and they DID cut back on the search to a degree. 

On a side note, no changes will be made to the Cooper Party plans right now. We're in a holding pattern. Two more inquiries came in today. I'm beginning to believe we won't have any trouble on attendance, and like my old man used to say:

"Don't change the plan." and "Don't mess with success." 

We're still over six months out on this one, so I told Greg and the other guy to relax. Everything is fine, I said. 

I suppose this is possible.  Anything is possible.

However, if you're DB Cooper this is the last thing you'd want to do.  It's been five years.  The case is cold.  The case is open, but the FBI is not actively searching for clues.  More likely waiting for information to come up and only assigning one agent to the case.

 

Then, the money appears and all of a sudden more agents are assigned to the case, they're looking for clues. Now, the FBI might ask if anyone saw anyone dump anything into the river.  Maybe somebody did.  So, instead of being able to lay low, Cooper would have attracted a whole bunch of attention to himself.

 

That's just not smart.  Not to say it couldn't happen.  Prisons are full of convicts who might have never been caught if they hadn't done something stupid.

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'Tom K found that 79.6 ft of parachute was missing, though if clear how much Cooper took with him...'

I don't skydive, but I've used paracord many times on camping trips to string up big tarps, help support a tent, etc. You can go through 80 feet pretty quick. If you are wrapping the heck out of a money bag and then trying to secure that bag to yourself, it wouldn't last long. I imagine it was put to that purpose. Interesting idea though about lowering yourself from a tree. 

Mark Bennett says:

Quote

 

'I suppose this is possible.  Anything is possible.' (Money as possible plant shortly after the FBI bypassed the Statute of Limitations on the case in 1976)

However, if you're DB Cooper this is the last thing you'd want to do.  It's been five years.  The case is cold.  The case is open, but the FBI is not actively searching for clues.  More likely waiting for information to come up and only assigning one agent to the case.

Then, the money appears and all of a sudden more agents are assigned to the case, they're looking for clues. Now, the FBI might ask if anyone saw anyone dump anything into the river.  Maybe somebody did.  So, instead of being able to lay low, Cooper would have attracted a whole bunch of attention to himself.

That's just not smart.  Not to say it couldn't happen.  Prisons are full of convicts who might have never been caught if they hadn't done something stupid.'

 

Well, I think by 1976 the FBI was still hot on the Cooper case. And although only one agent would be assigned as the case agent, there were undoubtedly still other agents running down tips. And why did the FBI even bother filing for a John Doe warrant on Cooper? This is a court procedure that many Federal judges would have dismissed, since it technically sidesteps your 14th Amendment rights. (Equal protection under the law) In fact, the judge refused to issue a blanket warrant that would cover accomplices, but restricted it only to Cooper himself. 

You have to remember three main groups, and one individual, realized the Statute on the case was approaching. That would be The FBI, The Public and the Media, and COOPER. And of all the legacies left behind by J. Edgar Hoover when he died in May 1972, one was right up there on the Wish List:  He wanted Cooper CAUGHT, and he didn't care much HOW it was done, but he wanted it done. 

The fly in the ointment is that Cooper himself doesn't know the extent of the investigation into his crime, except for what he and everyone reads in the paper, or hears on the news. I have the advantage of living here in Cooper Country since about 1966, and I can tell you in complete honesty that Cooper stories hadn't slowed down, even five years later. The stories became especially heavy each Thanksgiving. There were also the famous Ariel parties to boot. He was becoming bigger than Bigfoot. In fact, by 1976 his legend had grown to monumental proportions. On the other hand, Cooper knows that he will be free and clear, at least according to the media, on November 24th, 1976. Then, whoosh, over, and whammo...comes the announcement he won't be free and clear after all. The FBI has done an end-around play on him. It was all over Northwest news when they did. 

Imagine you are Cooper and you hear this on the TV news. It must have been crushing. I can imagine him throwing stuff into the wall, cursing, and then having trouble sleeping that night. Maybe he goes from anger to depression, maybe he gets desperate. Remember....Cooper has no clue on how deep the FBI investigation goes, but he knows he's on the news every time someone finds a scrap of cloth or a weird piece of metal somewhere, and the media won't let it go. He's become a folk hero, but it comes at a price. The more people celebrate him, write songs about him, have parties about him...the more he has to assume the FBI is trying to FIND HIM. The pressure must have been tremendous. Every time he hears a knock at the door, he wonders if it's three or four guys in suits holding a warrant. 'Stressful' doesn't come close to describing someone who lives like that. 

It is perfectly reasonable to assume that Cooper, once he heard that this sort of thing was not going to end after all, might try tossing something into the mix that *could* make the FBI believe he actually died in the jump. And maybe Cooper wasn't so dumb after all. It obviously worked, because the FBI started saying they thought he WAS dead, after the Tina Bar money find.  

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29 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

I get that somebody could have tossed the money but I can't get past the idea that the money was meant to be found.. it was a one in a million find.

If it was discarded it was never meant to be found.

Trying to throw off the FBI isn't an easy job. I think this was Amateur Night all the way. What do you do with the money? Dump it in the woods? Even if someone finds it and actually turns it in, the FBI would search the same area thoroughly. Finding no chute, no body, or anything else, they would know it was a plant and immediately decide Cooper was alive and redouble their efforts to find him. 

It's hard to make guesses on what Cooper had in mind, or how his thinking went if he decided on a river dump. I don't think he buried it at Tina Bar. If he did a dump, it was probably somewhere nearby, and the money was placed inside something else. I don't have any guesses into his method of thinking on this. It's even possible he did it while he was upset after hearing the news about the Statute of Limitations. 

Side note...a lot of folks in the Great Northwest were HIGHLY disappointed when the news came out about the warrant, and some other people thought the whole thing was a cheat, and 'unfair' to Cooper somehow, since they considered him a folk hero of sorts. Plus, other people were hoping he would come forward after the Statute of Limitations expired. 

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9 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

I get that somebody could have tossed the money but I can't get past the idea that the money was meant to be found.. it was a one in a million find.

If it was discarded it was never meant to be found.

Agree 100%. People bury things and throw things into bodies of water so that they won't be found. If you want something to be found, the last thing you do is toss it into a river or bury it. Robert Blevins isn't the only one to toss that theory out, but it's a stupid theory regardless of who is pushing it.

Can't have it both ways. Kenny hid money in his yard so that no one would find it, then hid more money so that someone would find it.....

Edited by ParrotheadVol

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7 hours ago, ParrotheadVol said:

Agree 100%. People bury things and throw things into bodies of water so that they won't be found. If you want something to be found, the last thing you do is toss it into a river or bury it. Robert Blevins isn't the only one to toss that theory out, but it's a stupid theory regardless of who is pushing it.

Can't have it both ways. Kenny hid money in his yard so that no one would find it, then hid more money so that someone would find it.....

Why is it a 'stupid idea'? Because I brought it up? Because some of you over at Shutter's place are afraid I was right on a few things? Because it is PERSONAL with you, and not business, as they would say in The Godfather? 

I didn't bring up Kenny's name on this river dump idea, you did. I was merely addressing the facts about it. But if you want to go there, then okay. We know for certain now that for some reason Kenny took a piece of his ripped-out counter top, the ones he pulled right after he moved in his new house, got himself a big ladder, and created a special hiding spot in his attic. A spot above his own bedroom that could only be accessed with great difficulty. The replacement of the counters was testified to by at least two people who knew Kenny, plus the spot itself was seen by both Scott Rolle of Decoded and myself. I have the counter piece Kenny used wrapped up here in my office. Kyle DeDominces, one of the people who found the money buried out back of Kenny's house, was interviewed for YouTube, and will be presenting his story in person next June at the campout. A picture of the actual money they found and turned into the Bonney Lake PD has been posted to this site. (Not part of the ransom, the bills were from the 80's) 

So how is it a stretch...if Kenny WERE the hijacker, and I'm not saying he was...that he might try something like this river dump to throw off the FBI? It isn't stupid, it's perfectly reasonable. Hijacking an airliner back then could result in anything between 40 years in Federal prison, all the way to a death penalty. Bank robbers usually don't get that much time. Sometimes not even a murderer, if it was second-degree. Air piracy was one of the most serious crimes going. 

I don't think the money was buried at Tina Bar. I used to, but then I came to the conclusion you did. That it would never be found, even though it was. That was a one in a million chance. If you want me to guess, I say Cooper was hoping that the bills would scatter in the river, and wash up water-damaged here and there. But they didn't do that. They stayed together and took years to be found. 

I also think that when people (other people, not folks posting to this thread now) start coming after you on a personal level elsewhere, as they did at Bruce's Mountain News with hundreds of filthy comments done anonymously using phony email addresses...that they do not do this because they think you are wrong. Or that you have lied about evidence. They do it because they are afraid you might be RIGHT. 

Anyone who wishes to discuss these things in person, or make a presentation on their own theories regarding Cooper is more than welcome to join us next June. Judging from the email requests in the last ten days, I don't think we will have a problem getting a crowd for you. Although most of the people who are using the Contact Form aren't saying they will actually show up, they still want to get on the email update list. That list is growing each day, and it isn't even Thanksgiving yet. Event isn't until next June. Recently, Greg made it policy on two things. First, we're not going to close the list at 75. In fact, we're not closing it at all. Second, anyone who gets the final PDF with the map, the contact info, the map to the rally point, and advice on what to bring...will have to present proof they have been vaccinated against Covid-19. I see us as one of the first organizations to require this for a gathering, but don't be surprised if job offers next year come with the same requirement on your application. 

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1 hour ago, ParrotheadVol said:

If the plan was for the bills to scatter, don't you think he would have removed the rubber bands?

The truth is...I just don't know. I just have a suspicion that the money was meant to be found, but for some reason it ended up at Tina Bar and buried. And since I don't buy into that 'western flight path' idea promoted mostly by Eric, I think human hands were somehow involved with that money. In other words, I don't think it fell from the sky based on the idea that SAGE radar, ATC, and a pair of radar-equipped fighter jets got it all wrong on the position of 305 by miles. I also know that Paul Soderlind from NWA had a hand in the creating of the flight path map, and Soderlind is one of the sharpest guys who ever worked in aviation. Not only did he create some commercial flight parameters still in use today, he ended up in the Minnesota Aviation Hall of Fame. He and his team definitely had a hand in that map, and I believe it to be accurate. 

If you accept those things are probable, then you have to accept the idea that Tina Bar money didn't just magically appear at Tina Bar...but that a human had involvement in it somehow. The exact method may never be known. Everyone involved in the Cooper case has been going round and round about this for years. 

On a side note, if any of you out there in Cooperland are thinking of making a presentation next June, we figure we have room for six presentations total on Saturday during the day. At night we're doing dinner, music, and the Cooper Lookalike contest. Two of the speaking slots have already been filled. Just saying. 

Personally, I don't care one way or another if anyone in Cooperland wants to participate. I'm fine with whatever decision you make, but I will tell you this:  If you sit on the sidelines you will miss out on a LOT of fun. That I can guarantee. I am still seeking two more people for the Planning Committee as well, and those folks are not precluded from doing their own presentation. But it is still mostly a party, and that's why we're limiting presentations to only six people. I am NOT one of them. Truth is, Greg and I will mostly be there to make sure everything goes smoothly, everyone has fun, and will be busy cooking and doing other things. I'm also leaving it to the committee to volunteer additional ideas on day activities. Friday and Saturday night is mostly party time, to be straight up about it. But the day stuff I have told people I am open to ideas, especially for Saturday. 

Yes. Greg, Kyle and I will be busy elsewhere. Like making sure the music is loud enough...and the microphones work properly. ¬¬ (*insert evil laugh HERE*) Not that the previous Cooper events haven't been interesting, but we think some of them were a bit boring. And everyone I know has been bored to death enough already due to Covid restrictions. Hell, I might even have a couple of drinks at the party. You never know. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins
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33 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Paul Soderlind from NWA had a hand in the creating of the flight path map, and Soderlind is one of the sharpest guys who ever worked in aviation. Not only did he create some commercial flight parameters still in use today, he ended up in the Minnesota Aviation Hall of Fame. He and his team definitely had a hand in that map, and I believe it to be accurate. 

Would it be a fair assumption that Mr Soderlind was the (redacted) author of the memo dated 01.09.1972 from Northwest Airlines to the FBI?

720109 notes p272.jpg

720109 notes p273.jpg

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6 hours ago, DFS346 said:

Would it be a fair assumption that Mr Soderlind was the (redacted) author of the memo dated 01.09.1972 from Northwest Airlines to the FBI?

720109 notes p272.jpg

720109 notes p273.jpg

This is very interesting, but would be better if we saw the map, so you could tell what the writer means when he (or she) says, 'Point A, B, C,' etc. 

However, I wouldn't be surprised if Soderlind had a hand in it, or was the actual person who submitted it. I know the info provided by NWA was done by several persons, not one, although Soderlind was responsible for the final result. He was Flight Operations Director for NWA at the time of the hijacking. 

Side Note: Greg has ordered two extended-length, plug in microphones from Amazon. He also ordered This Receiver and These Speakers, to go with These Stands. I am providing a powered subwoofer. He says this combo is the best bang for the buck and will meet our needs. (For the first DB Cooper Party since 2016.) And the amp has not one, but TWO microphone inputs. We decided to ditch the straight karaoke idea because unless we buy a system for nearly a thousand bucks, we can't find anything suitable, plus Greg wouldn't be able to take it home later and use it solely for a stereo system. I guess if someone wants to sing along with the music, that can be done with the mikes because they have separate controls for music level and mike level on the amplifier. I guess he knows what he's doing...I hope. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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7 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

would be better if we saw the map, so you could tell what the writer means when he (or she) says, 'Point A, B, C,' etc. 

This is the map that was attached to Northwest Airlines' memo dated 01.09.1972. Source: FBI, "DB Cooper Part 18 of 52.pdf", page 416, vault.fbi.gov.

I presume that Mr Soderlind signed the memo on behalf of Northwest Airlines. The Captain (redacted) at McChord AFB, as far as I know, has never been identified.

720109 drop zone.jpeg

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It's almost a certainty that Soderlind signed the report. He's pretty much revered by former NWA employees. The guy is a wizard and knew almost everything there WAS to know about commercial aviation. Picture below is from his induction into the Minnesota Aviation Hall of Fame. That induction had little to nothing to do with the Cooper case. If he helped create that map shown above, I can see why the FBI and the US Army decided to search the areas where he told them to look. I will get a copy from the FBI file you mentioned and see if I can enhance it a bit. We have mucho imaging programs over here, which we keep around to do images for books and book covers. 

I should add that on the day of the Cooper hijacking, he was in communication, and heavily involved WITH...the stuff that was going on with all that in Seattle. And Cooper made it easy for him to get a handle on the situation, since Flight 305 was on the ground for a while at SeaTac. By the time that jet got airborne again, all eyes were focused on the flight path of the jet. Everyone knew that Cooper was planning to jump, and everyone had time to prepare. In the end, it was pretty much established WHEN Cooper jumped within a minute or two, but like co-pilot Bill Rataczak once said: "We knew when Cooper jumped. We just don't know where he landed."  Soderlind helped everyone establish the parameters. 

Soderlindpic.jpg.7d359b65ff8e12a0e75446c28c5e733d.jpg

I just saw the review on the John Dower movie, The Mystery of D.B. Cooper. Not good. I spent two days with Dower giving him everything but the kitchen sink, which I regretted...but I was fortunate enough to hit the cutting room floor. Lucky for me, (I still got paid) and not so lucky apparently for the folks who didn't. I'm okay with it all, though. Better to bank the cash and NOT be involved in a bad production, then to get paid and BE in it. I suppose any production on Cooper these days is a good thing, but still...

Perhaps I WILL do a presentation after all at next June's party. Who knows? We're going to shoot video while we're there anyway. ^_^ I always do at these things, (previous Cooper campouts and the Great American Eclipse campout) but this time I might actually release the video. This one is special, I think. 

On a more serious note, it's too bad the Dower documentary is already getting bad reviews. If this keeps up, no one will want to do the Cooper story any more. As far as Dower and the documentary goes, THIS was our involvement in it. Now I'm glad he decided to cut us from it. I'd rather do one or two good things for the media, rather than jumping for any trash that comes along. I was foolish enough to take the jump, but someone up there must like me. I was pulled from the abyss by a long-ass rope and away from that production. I couldn't believe my luck. 

Believe it or not, I do have certain standards. See you in June. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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1 hour ago, RobertMBlevins said:

It's almost a certainty that Soderlind signed the report. <> on the day of the Cooper hijacking, he was in communication, and heavily involved WITH...the stuff that was going on with all that in Seattle.

Is that Mr Soderlind in the "sled test" photo from WSHS? Third from left, orange shirt?

Norjak00022 - January 6, 1972 cropped.jpg

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These guys are stubborn, Georger has been wrong for ten years now, a packet is a group of 100 bills, rubber banded or bank strapped or both. 

Robert99, a single packet (100 bills) is 1/2" thick, 3 packets is only 1 1/2" thick and could fit in a pocket. IMO, it wasn't put in Cooper's pocket. The bundles were randomized, the number of packets per rubber banded bundle. 

The TBAR money was in order. It was given to Cooper in random sized bundles of packets. Perhaps 3, 4 or 5 packets per bundle.

How does the money end up in order and packets separated but together... IT WAS ALL ONE BUNDLE WHEN IT LANDED ON TBAR.

1063084989_onebundle.jpg.76d43a000b765cc6e9695191d7cf469e.jpg

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3 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

<>should go to the source of the picture. 

The Washington State Historical Society published a caption but could not identify the third person from the left. As far as I can determine, the photograph is no longer on the website of the WSHS.

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4 hours ago, DFS346 said:

The Washington State Historical Society published a caption but could not identify the third person from the left. As far as I can determine, the photograph is no longer on the website of the WSHS.

I believe that there is another copy of this picture, maybe on Shutter's site, that identifies all of the people in that photograph.  And there is another photo somewhere that shows Sunderland in the left pilot's seat for the sled tests.

The Captain whose name is redacted elsewhere may be one of the military shown in this photograph and may be the same parachutist that walked down to the bottom of the stairs during the sled tests.

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