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quade

DB Cooper

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(edited)

The Palmer report was released in a recent FBI file...

Georger is correct, it doesn't confirm the Corps IDing the dredge spoils on site.. it confirms their participation.

But that is a red herring... 

 

The Corps of Engineers are extremely thorough and have very detailed records.. it is a big lift to undermine their claims. Eric will try, Georger will settle down with a chamomile tea and a blanket in his rocking chair and will eventually realize this is a game changer.

I just report what I find..  don't shoot the messenger. 

 

palmer1.jpeg.74ecc799026757e20ef391e6c245ae10.jpeg

Edited by FLYJACK

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(edited)

To Shutter: You can try BS'ing people here all you wish. And at Bruce Smith's website as well. (Yeah, I saw your ridiculous post there.) I'm not going on any further on this subject. You obviously have no wish to cooperate with me in helping bring a little justice to the life's work of a very stand-up guy, aka Sheridan Peterson. In order to do this, whether you choose to accept it or not, would require COOPERATION. This is a concept you refuse to accept. You were eager to help sponsor what you knew to be wrong (you were well informed) but refuse to try and do the right thing regarding Sheridan now. There is nothing I can do about that. My conscience is clear. I seem to be the only person who stood up for him in Cooperland. I stood up for him getting screwed by you and your buddies over at the Cooper Forum, and I stood up for him when EU used lies and made-up bullshit to 'prove' he was DB Cooper. That particular article at WordPress, where I fire back in defense of Sheridan, is the third most read article in the WordPress series even today. You, on the other hand, support EU heavily without questioning the evidence. 

Your forum does a thing I call 'circling the wagons,' when the heat comes. That is, as long as someone is in your little group over there, they are allowed to say, to do whatever they wish, no matter how silly or cruel, and they will be generally defended. If not there at the Cooper Forum under their real internet identities, they go outside your forum and do it at Bruce Smith's hate-fest he calls a WordPress blog. Believe it or not, people see through that about as easily as they do a freshly-cleaned pane of glass. You kind of remind me of those Germans who claimed they were just 'taking orders' and had nothing to do with what happened during a certain war. "People get screwed, and yes, I hosted some of it, but really...I had nothing to do with it and didn't know what was going on." I may do an article on this whole tragedy regarding Sheridan someday. I'm not sure. If I thought it would actually HELP Sheridan, I would. And by the way....Snown does NOT have a release from Sheridan, nor did he have permission to publish. You should stop saying that because this was only true initially, and prior to publication Sheridan backed out. He never signed any release. There wasn't a whole lot he could do about it anyway. It's easy to screw some old guy when his apartment gets flooded at a critical time, when he's over the age of 90 and in assisted care, and when several people are so greedy for a bragging-rights copy of his book that they go ahead and encourage Snown to do what he did. You're a real decent bunch over there for sure. Nobody ever does anything wrong. Nobody is ever held accountable. And nobody ever tries to make anything wrong they might do....RIGHT AGAIN. 

FLYJACK says in part:

Quote

'The Corps of Engineers are extremely thorough and have very detailed records.. it is a big lift to undermine their claims. Eric will try, Georger will settle down with a chamomile tea and a blanket in his rocking chair and will eventually realize this is a game changer.

I just report what I find..  don't shoot the messenger...'

No worries. I never believed Cooper landed anywhere near Tina Bar anyway. Your revelation of the FBI docs simply proves it. We each have a different theory regarding how the money arrived at Tina Bar. Your results lend at least some credence to either one. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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The Palmer Report and the article confirm and support each other.. both indicate the Corps was involved in determining the location of the dredge layer. The article only indicates they were on site with Palmer.

Claiming the article is wrong with zero evidence...  nice try.

 

You can do that with anything, just deny it if you don't like it. That is how Eric rolls.

 

Things don't have to be peer reviewed to be true. 

 

 

 

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Robert, it's very simple...why haven't YOU discussed this problem with the author of the book (Sheridan Peterson) why are you trying to work around the actual owner of the book? this horrific injustice could be solved with you contacting the owner of the book, no? where is the FBI and law suits, the book has been published? It's my understanding Snow even went to Sheridan's house. 

 

You also LIED about the manuscript being "stolen" by misquoting Sheridan. Snow purchased the manuscript prior to Sheridan taking it offline as he stated in 2018. the manuscript was online for a short period in the mid 2000's. you also have no value for privacy by posting Sheridan's email address in his reply. did you ask him if you could post personal information or the email? if you did that to me all trust would be gone. 

 

The book was published and the owner of the book is under the name of Sheridan Peterson..for some reason you are not contacting this person (Sheridan Peterson) in regards to your rants. any changes surround said book needs to be discussed with those involved in the book. especially, the person who wrote it..that would be Sheridan Peterson. I don't go to McDonalds looking for a Whopper? 

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LOL I buy Kindle books to read on my Kindle all the time. Doesn't mean I can just take one, re-edit it without the author's written permission...and publish it on my own at Lulu. You must be kidding. 

You can dodge and weave all you wish, but the fact of the matter is that you supported this effort by allowing Snown to bring up the subject of publication at your website. Then...several of your members chimed in saying they couldn't wait to get their hands on a copy of the book. Snown's 'good intentions' came to a screaming halt when he assigned a phony ISBN number to the book and made it official. Prior to that, he could have just uploaded the book to Lulu WITHOUT an ISBN. That way...people could have obtained copies without screwing Sheridan out of legitimate, wholesale, worldwide distribution. When everyone got what they wanted, then Snown could have pulled the book from Lulu and no harm done. 

I remember suggesting that this was a decent alternative because although it still technically violated Sheridan's rights under copyright law, the harm was minimal, if any. Making the book official with a worldwide ISBN record was selfish, stupid, and just hurt any chances Sheridan may have had for legit publication at the trade rate...

...which by the way...is the way book business has been done between publishers and authors for about a century now. 

I already let you off the hook, so quit whining. It became obvious to me that 'helping make things right,' or doing right by Sheridan would require both you and Snown to cooperate. I see that will never happen. But I wonder sometimes how you would have reacted if someone like Mark M had come to you with this. You probably would think it was a good idea to fix this problem for Sheridan, and would have bent over backwards to make things right. But because it is me...the most qualified person around to set up Sheridan's book for any kind of success or realistic distribution...oh, that absolutely CANNOT happen...even if Sheridan is the only real victim here. 

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Zero dodging..I had nothing to do with the publication of the book..CONTACT the person who wrote it and has the COPYRIGHTS to it...that's very simple and that person is Sheridan Peterson..Snowmman and Sheridan apparently got the book published. you have lied several times in this story along with the conference. I don't know Sheridan or even Snowmman other than on my site. I had one PM with him in regards to controlling the 302's when he first came to the forum.

You claim to of had some sort of contract or dealings with Sheridan, not Snowmman. Sheridan owns the rights and has the final say unless Snow has some sort of contract with him which is extremely doubtful..you don't need me for squat..CONTACT the rightful owner of the book. stop accusing me of publishing the book. why isn't Sheridan screaming? 

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(edited)
52 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

Zero dodging..I had nothing to do with the publication of the book..CONTACT the person who wrote it and has the COPYRIGHTS to it...that's very simple and that person is Sheridan Peterson..Snowmman and Sheridan apparently got the book published. you have lied several times in this story along with the conference. I don't know Sheridan or even Snowmman other than on my site. I had one PM with him in regards to controlling the 302's when he first came to the forum.

You claim to of had some sort of contract or dealings with Sheridan, not Snowmman. Sheridan owns the rights and has the final say unless Snow has some sort of contract with him which is extremely doubtful..you don't need me for squat..CONTACT the rightful owner of the book. stop accusing me of publishing the book. why isn't Sheridan screaming? 

Sheridan WAS upset about it. But what could a guy who is past 90 and in a friggin home for seniors REALLY do about it? 

I already explained at length how...despite your denials...you WERE involved. You hosted the posts at the website you created. You made supporting comments. You occasionally told me to go to hell when I voiced my concerns. You saw these things, you DID these things. 

I can PROVE you did. The screenshots speak for themselves. 

Why don't I just 'go to Sheridan' about this? Well, I have. And he would probably go along with my plan, which (again!) was to publish the book for him for free, but THIS time do it so he actually gets some sales and some recognition. Do you and your friends over at the Cooper Forum have ANY idea how you screwed him out of his book, a book he took many years to write?

No wonder he's so pissed and angry at everyone. Can't say I blame him. 

I already told you several times how you and your friends can make this right. AB of Seattle would need to see the edited manuscript, as well as the original PDF. Only YOU and possibly 377 can get this for us. As much as I would like to see justice done for Sheridan, I am not willing to just re-type an 800_+ page manuscript by hand and do another complete edit on it...simply because you and your friends are unwilling to admit Lulu was a bad idea. How about you stop making excuses and arrange for AB of Seattle to see these documents? Also the cover file, because I will have to modify it as well. If none of you are willing to do those simple things to make things right, then just LIVE with what you did to Sheridan and stop whining to me. Because I am NOT interested in hearing any further whining. Action speaks louder than words. The relationship, so far...between Sheridan and the Cooper Forum...kind of goes like a scene from Animal House. In other words, you guys telling him this:

Quote

"Face it. You fucked up. You TRUSTED us..." 

You guys could get together and actually do the right thing here. A nice thing. But I doubt you will. 

And just so you'll know, providing the files is the easy part. The HARD part is when I have to format an 800 page book, re-check it for minor errors, make sure everything else is kosher, and then spend all the money to get it uploaded and distributed, plus getting it listed in the Ingram catalog. It's a few hundred bucks at least, and a ton of work. Lighting Source/Ingram's requirements are a bit tougher than Lulu. There is also the special formatting for the Kindle version, which is completely different than doing a paperback. If you think all that is easy, you should try it sometime. B)

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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You are finally partially correct...377 is friends with both of them or at least was with Sheridan.  email 377 about your problems. I didn't write the book nor did I have anything to do with publishing the book..the email for Sheridan is written on the reply you posted from him. contact Sheridan to fix Sheridan's book you claim to want to do? you had 30 emails with Sheridan, make it 31?

 

1) Why do you fail to make contact the owner of the book?

2) What rights do you have to side step Sheridan like you accuse Snow of?

3) Snowmman doesn't own the rights to the book.

 

How about YOU do the right thing by going DIRECTLY to the source. why are you whining to me about a problem YOU have? it happened in 2018 and brought up by you in 2020. it appears to be YOU doing the whining...? contact Sheridan Peterson to fix anything to do with Sheridan Peterson? 

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43 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

You are finally partially correct...377 is friends with both of them or at least was with Sheridan.  email 377 about your problems. I didn't write the book nor did I have anything to do with publishing the book..the email for Sheridan is written on the reply you posted from him. contact Sheridan to fix Sheridan's book you claim to want to do? you had 30 emails with Sheridan, make it 31?

1) Why do you fail to make contact the owner of the book?

2) What rights do you have to side step Sheridan like you accuse Snow of?

3) Snowmman doesn't own the rights to the book.

1) I have, but just not lately. Reason: No use talking to him until I see the actual files. He's already agreed in spirit to my proposal, but there's no use approaching him just now. I am not ready for that, and his PDF alone...if he could even find it on his computer...is not what I really need primarily. I need the edited file more, although yes...I also need the PDF secondarily. 

2) I'm not side-stepping Sheridan. But I'm not putting the cart before the horse either. I have no intention of publishing without permission. We're public, not anonymous. If I did that, Sheridan and his family could sue us for copyright violation. That would have been tougher with Snown, since he mostly remains anonymous. 

3) Well then he shouldn't have published without owning the rights. Had I done that with the Phleger family concerning the book below, they would have sued us for SURE, since that book is very well known. It's our biggest seller in wholesale, with Blast behind it. 

PilotDownCoverPreview.jpg.9beb4ad494fda0cb0dceb1527d0869b0.jpg

You hold a certain responsibility in assisting that the right thing is done regarding Sheridan's book. You registered Snown, you know how to contact him, and your support in this matter would be a great help in righting a wrong. 

I have come to the idea that Snown WAS probably trying to be nice with the book. But the problem was he didn't realize what happens to a book when you assign an ISBN to it and then release it at a dump like Lulu dot com. The book gets no distribution worldwide, gets no wholesale price, no vendors will list it much...and sales go nowhere. I should know. AB of Seattle spent our first two years going through Lulu. We sold almost nothing. That changed when we dumped them and went to Lightning Source. Hell...if Snown would have gone through LSI we wouldn't even be here now discussing this stuff. 

Maybe what you should do is post on your forum showing your support for this issue, and urge others to cooperate. It's not about me. I won't make a penny and I will drop the $12 a year to keep the book on the worldwide wholesale print database gladly. Plus the initial expenses, which will run about $300 from my own pocket. You guys could do SOMETHING, you know. 

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Sounds like a problem for you and not me...Sheridan owns the book. you need to speak with him in regards to any agreement you had prior to Snowmman. I could care less the amounts you offer Robert. that's really cheesy and unprofessional IMHO. it's the thought that counts, not the amount. you always feel the need to include dollar amounts with things. 

I know nothing about any files about the book. you need to speak with the people involved. I'm not going to help you in anyway. If Sheridan really wanted this from you then what's the frickin' problem? how do you know what Snow has and what Sheridan has without talking with either or if the agreement you had is still valid? you dive into the water and climb out wanting everyone to dry you off, really? it's your deal between you and Sheridan that was apparently made! I had nothing to do with that either...I'm not obligated to do anything for you. doesn't matter what you think is right. I don't know Sheridan at ALL, no emails, no comments online, no Facebook, Twitter, nothing. same for Snow. he was on my forum but that doesn't imply we are pals? the most I recall commenting with him about was documents surrounding Reca..this is between the three of you, period. 

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(edited)
18 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

Sounds like a problem for you and not me...Sheridan owns the book. you need to speak with him in regards to any agreement you had prior to Snowmman. I could care less the amounts you offer Robert. that's really cheesy and unprofessional IMHO. it's the thought that counts, not the amount. you always feel the need to include dollar amounts with things. 

I know nothing about any files about the book. you need to speak with the people involved. I'm not going to help you in anyway. If Sheridan really wanted this from you then what's the frickin' problem? how do you know what Snow has and what Sheridan has without talking with either or if the agreement you had is still valid? you dive into the water and climb out wanting everyone to dry you off, really? it's your deal between you and Sheridan that was apparently made! I had nothing to do with that either...I'm not obligated to do anything for you. doesn't matter what you think is right. I don't know Sheridan at ALL, no emails, no comments online, no Facebook, Twitter, nothing. same for Snow. he was on my forum but that doesn't imply we are pals? the most I recall commenting with him about was documents surrounding Reca..this is between the three of you, period. 

Okay. I get it. You were willing to host Snown on his work regarding the book, you found out later maybe it wasn't a good idea to ignore my suggestions that he NOT go through Lulu and now Sheridan is screwed. 

I've already explained this at length, and I am tired of doing so. Snown has the edited file, that's why, in case you're wondering. I have no intention of re-typing and completely re-editing an 800 page book just to fix what you and your friends screwed up for Sheridan. Even though I like the guy, there is a limit to my generosity. There is enough work to be done already, even WITH the edited file and the original PDF.

You don't want to help? You don't want to encourage the same members who supported this Lulu idea to support instead something much better for Sheridan...there is nothing I can do about it. You would rather see Sheridan have his life's work screwed, rather than working with me to correct a moral injustice. Yeah, that's a good one. Tell me you don't make emotional decisions occasionally. 

My conscience is clear. And unless you can prove me wrong, I am a better man than you, and twice that on Sundays. 

I see you STILL do the same old stuff, by the way. One face for the public, another for your friends, such as Bruce Smith:

Quote

 

'Opinions scare the living crap out of Robert..private forum, approval only comments on YouTube. he will shutdown dialog against him but has no problem dishing it out. negativity is used often by him but doesn’t like it against him. it becomes “hatred”. you quickly get caught up in a never ending circle with him by replying..he replies asking or speaking of other topics that divert from the original conversation removing the focus on him. the victim flag get raised high up the pole. he’s scared people will do exactly what he does..he cries out nobody really knows him but replies about others like they have been together since grade school.

He can’t even be honest enough to say he caused the conference to be moved. then he LIES even more saying the country club was horrified of the comments failing to realize he just mentioned they never responded! a true LIAR always forgets what he says. that’s a well known fact. this puts anything he says about his suspect into question. he speaks for everyone. this has nothing to do with hatred. his book is full of problems and he profits from it while whining about other people who have written books. Hypocrisy is his middle name..'

 

You can stop worrying about the private forum. Not much goes on there anyway, we don't talk about you or Sheridan's book...and no one posts stuff like you did above. It's not allowed. 

The PYC didn't respond to my email probably because they didn't feel it was necessary. Some of the things people were posting did it all by itself. I suppose you could say I caused the event to be moved, or you COULD say you all brought it on yourselves by your ugly and irresponsible posts. It was about time someone spoke up about them. So I did. 

The only reason I created that forum was for when the movie comes out anyway...it will probably be needed. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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The old divert comes into play..that's my opinion. you don't like it that's tough. I responded to someone who spoke of the very issue I wrote about...don't put that up? 

I don't care about your forum..what is it, attempt 8-9? of course you won't allow what you do on everyone else's sites. no clogging up that forum with off topic comments, right. only where you can you can break someone else's rules..it speaks volumes..nicely put, bravo...

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(edited)
5 hours ago, mrshutter45 said:

The old divert comes into play..that's my opinion. you don't like it that's tough. I responded to someone who spoke of the very issue I wrote about...don't put that up? 

I don't care about your forum..what is it, attempt 8-9? of course you won't allow what you do on everyone else's sites. no clogging up that forum with off topic comments, right. only where you can you can break someone else's rules..it speaks volumes..nicely put, bravo...

LOL no one is stopping you or anyone else from joining that forum. Not that any of you would, of course. There's nothing going on there much lately anyway. Like I said, it's set up for later. The only requirement was that anyone joining would have to register under the same username they use at other Cooper websites. For example, someone who isn't YOU should not try joining under the name Shutter. I wouldn't bother though. You are busy enough dealing with your own forum, I'm sure. And yes, I check to make sure people ARE who they SAY they are when they join. I don't even accept non-Cooper folk anymore unless I know them personally. 

As far as off-topic, I consider the Sheridan book issue to be a Cooper issue. That's because it was written by an alleged Cooper suspect, and was discussed for publication at a Cooper website. And I believe everyone's book deserves a chance beyond an expensive vanity print run. 

There is more to the Cooper case discussion besides some bills on a riverbank. There is also the personalities and the community surrounding the case itself. Sometimes the best stories are there.

One of them is how members of the biggest website on the Cooper case conspired together to steal a book and publish it. A book written by a 90+ year old guy living in the Santa Rosa area in assisted care, a very stand-up guy, a teacher and skydiver, simply so they could obtain a few vanity copies for a Cooper convention.

And when they were confronted about it, and asked to help make it right, they simply refused to do so.

The screenshots, some emails, and the official US Copyright Office notice will be used as illustrations, and as proof of the allegation(s). 

It will make interesting reading I'm sure. 

A preliminary post with Peterson's bio has already been made to the Facebook page on Cooper, with one coming tomorrow evening to the 2,000+ followers of the case at Quora Dot Com. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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You do what you have to do there Mr. Honest...this is one complete and total bold faced LIE.

"One of them is how members of the biggest website on the Cooper case conspired together to steal a book and publish it."

Now you are openly accusing me of theft. you just go right ahead. I'm ready this time...

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Guys, once again - this is not a place for members to have back and forths about their own issues with one another. Discuss the case, not the endless drama involving people who have sought to engage in the topic. If in doubt, rather leave it out. Let's also not forget that a few of these posts may even cross the line into personal attacks and I have removed some posts in accordance. The above discussion is an example of what will result in warnings going forward - I am only leaving it up for reference to this post. Warning points accumulated result in a temporary ban and a permanent ban if persistent.

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(edited)

article in FBI files..

The pop cans and most of the money were found six to eight inches below the surface, but fragments of the money reportedly were as far down as three feet.

Palmer could not explain how the money might have been buried that deep. He said there was "no conclusive evidence" that money was in fact found three feet down, and surmised that it may have been deposited there in digging actions.

 

It indicates Palmer did not believe the money fragments were three feet deep.

 

moneydeeppalmer.jpeg

Edited by FLYJACK

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3 hours ago, mrshutter45 said:

You do what you have to do there Mr. Honest...this is one complete and total bold faced LIE.

"One of them is how members of the biggest website on the Cooper case conspired together to steal a book and publish it."

Now you are openly accusing me of theft. you just go right ahead. I'm ready this time...

If you have any further concerns, or wish to contact me privately on this issue, you know how to reach me. 

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(edited)
On 8/23/2020 at 6:54 AM, FLYJACK said:

BREAKING... The dredge layer was identified by the Corps of Engineers...  

 

armcordredgelayer.jpeg.639ebab3a8cefab48c5ee1717e1975e7.jpeg

and Himmelsbach confirms the Corps of Engineers was on site...

Now, Palmer and the Corps of Engineers, Himmelsbach and the media need to be discredited.. good luck.

 

himmscorps.jpeg.5ef122cbe9336ef9222a3cd0a795844d.jpeg

Edited by FLYJACK

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The Money spot was at the N end of the Fazio property which is within a different site from the Fazio operation (97.1)

This is a 1975 map of "existing disposal sites",, the red dot is the money spot which is the S tip of the N site.. 

It looks like the primary Fazio sand and gravel operation has nothing to do with the money spot. There is an adjacent site.

 

dredgespoilsaa1.jpg.7326f17da1d477083fba598efd340d66.jpg

 

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6 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

and Himmelsbach confirms the Corps of Engineers was on site...

Now, Palmer and the Corps of Engineers, Himmelsbach and the media need to be discredited.. good luck.

 

himmscorps.jpeg.5ef122cbe9336ef9222a3cd0a795844d.jpeg

It is amazing how inaccurate newspaper reporting can be. 

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(edited)

Just a quick add-on. 
Today I reviewed all the late 2018 posts at the Cooper Forum regarding this book and Snown's work on it. Many ugly things were said. Sounds like everyone was pissed off for one reason or another. Saw a lot of justifications, excuses being made, threats, and occasional name-calling. Some folks thought I was trying to sell Sheridan's book for a movie or something, blah-blah-blah from everyone and in the places where people quoted me correctly...probably me as well. 

Try to understand that we here at AB of Seattle knew what Lulu was all about. Many years ago, we started out with them, but within two years I deleted every single book file I had with them and then I deleted our account there. I knew they were a bad idea. Now that you've read my detailed comments above, maybe you'll understand where we're coming from on this issue. 

It really comes down to the idea that we're okay that some of you obtained vanity copies via Lulu. We just think Sheridan deserves better than he's getting now. Snown probably didn't understand how bad Lulu is if you are planning to publish a book. It's okay if you want a few personal copies, but few if any people actually buy books on the internet via Lulu. Mainly because they cost way too much. And the wholesalers, the bookstores, the distributors and vendors won't go near a Lulu-published book either. There is no margin for them. None. 

Bottom line is whether certain people are willing to set aside their animosities and do the right thing with Sheridan. On a side note, I've decided that posting some article about this situation helps no one, including Sheridan. So I removed a certain post from Facebook. Either right is done by Sheridan, or nothing is done. I will leave Cooperland to decide their options. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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10 hours ago, Coopy said:

It is amazing how inaccurate newspaper reporting can be. 

On the other forum we identified the scientist from the Army Corps of Engineers. The FBI brought in the best people from the area to examine the site. It's worth reading through the FBI documents on Tina bar just to see how much effort was put into understanding the money find. That particular newspaper article looks to be an accurate account of what was going on at the time.

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