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DB Cooper

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8 minutes ago, Slim King said:

The argument is so weak that it is even disputed right now by many because of all the inconsistencies in the story.

Fascinating that the only people who dispute it are those with an agenda. 

Also, how could anyone have seen it when it was flying above three separate layers of cloud cover?

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12 minutes ago, Slim King said:

The plane flew it's normal rout to Reno. It's illogical to think anything else. The highest pass for that rout is only 3007 feet. That gives the plane 6,993 feet of clearance. It's the flight path still used today. The FBI consultant said he felt that Cooper was going to blow up the plane. It's INSANE they would reroute the plane over the most populated area of Washington and Oregon. There is not a single eye witness to the plane in that area even though they sent out 6 planes, jets and helicopters to find it. No one on the ground saw it either. The argument is so weak that it is even disputed right now by many because of all the inconsistencies in the story. It was all handled by J. Edgar Hoover after he'd been exposed as corrupt and was soon found dead in his own bed. No autopsy. Heart attack .. A few years later the CIA was forced to expose their Heart Attack gun that leaves no trace.

You know this is crazy right..

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My post yesterday was written from memory, so I went back and looked at the Clark County arrest records on Ancestry this afternoon and would like to edit a few points.  For Clark County the digitized arrest records run through the end of 1969, the majority of those arrested were under 35, and there is a presence of 2nd degree burglary charges.  There are some low level assault charges too, but my point still stands that the overwhelming majority of the crime in the area was committed by the young, drunk, and dumb. (Case in point was the guy who got arrested for fishing with dynamite.)  None of this matches Cooper.

Ancestry digitized what was at the Washington State Archives back in 2021.  I don't know if there was a 50 year cutoff or if that was everything the Archives had available.  The Clark County Sheriff's Office, Washington Highway Patrol, and the police departments for Vancouver, La Center, Battleground, and Yacolt were the law enforcement agencies making the arrests.  If anyone wants to look further into the incidents on the ground the night Cooper jumped, those would be some places to start.  

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12 hours ago, olemisscub said:

My belief is that Reca appropriated a story that he overhead at some point, but was too stupid or lazy to know that we DO know roughly where Cooper jumped, thus making his bullshit story instantly false. He probably had a friend who was a pilot who told him about having to make an emergency landing near Cle Elum on the night of the Cooper hijacking. The guy had to walk into the nearest town and ask to use the phone. The punchline of the story being "I bet them folks thought I was D.B. Cooper! Har har!" So Reca just interpolates himself into this story. 

I've tried to see if there are any mentions of a plane landing there that night but the local papers for Cle Elum and that county aren't online. 

I've suspected that the story Reca told about walking into the diner and meeting the cowboy could be true. Only that it didn't happen on the night of the hijacking, or maybe it did. But it had nothing to do with Cooper. A lie wrapped in a blanket of truth. 

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26 minutes ago, ParrotheadVol said:

I've suspected that the story Reca told about walking into the diner and meeting the cowboy could be true. Only that it didn't happen on the night of the hijacking, or maybe it did. But it had nothing to do with Cooper. A lie wrapped in a blanket of truth. 

Either his truth or someone else’s truth, certainly.

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12 hours ago, Andrade1812 said:

Can we focus on the timing of the jump? Invoking Reca's name fouls the thread...

Bayesian..

8:09:01 - 8:15  95% confidence

between 8:05 and 8:09 and after 8:15 .... 5% confidence

 

Breakdown..

8:09 - 8:10 .... 15% confidence

8:10:01 - 8:12 .... 40% confidence

8:12:01 - 8:13 .... 25% confidence

8:13:01- 8:15 .... 15% confidence

 

Edited by FLYJACK
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I did watch EU's new video on the flight path last night.  No disrespect to him, but it's mostly guestimating based on where that fiber glass apron was found (Cinebar?) and Cliff A.'s statements to him about the variation of the radar hits, "a mile further west"....so I didn't feel like it moved the needle for me.  He is saying that he feels that cooper landed within a mile or two of Tena Bar, but he didn't really address the jump point and time as it relates to his new flight path.  

At this point, I'm still mostly in the camp of the standard FBI/SAGE derived flight path.  But I do find some of Dr. Edwards work into the timing of the plane along flight path interesting.

 

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16 minutes ago, JAGdb said:

I did watch EU's new video on the flight path last night.  No disrespect to him, but it's mostly guestimating based on where that fiber glass apron was found (Cinebar?) and Cliff A.'s statements to him about the variation of the radar hits, "a mile further west"....so I didn't feel like it moved the needle for me.  He is saying that he feels that cooper landed within a mile or two of Tena Bar, but he didn't really address the jump point and time as it relates to his new flight path.  

At this point, I'm still mostly in the camp of the standard FBI/SAGE derived flight path.  But I do find some of Dr. Edwards work into the timing of the plane along flight path interesting.

 

The Cinnebar part was not the Norjak Apron, it was cloth/canvas, not fibreglass. The early 727 Aprons were cloth. I posted a vid of the torn Apron moving and it is clearly cloth.

Edwards assumed a West wind in his calculations, the wind was S out of Seattle and shifting between SE and SW...  wind changes everything.

Edited by FLYJACK
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22 minutes ago, JAGdb said:

I did watch EU's new video on the flight path last night.  No disrespect to him, but it's mostly guestimating based on where that fiber glass apron was found (Cinebar?) and Cliff A.'s statements to him about the variation of the radar hits, "a mile further west"....so I didn't feel like it moved the needle for me.  He is saying that he feels that cooper landed within a mile or two of Tena Bar, but he didn't really address the jump point and time as it relates to his new flight path.  

At this point, I'm still mostly in the camp of the standard FBI/SAGE derived flight path.  But I do find some of Dr. Edwards work into the timing of the plane along flight path interesting.

 

It's all guesstimating on his part. Also, Cliff finally informed him that he remembers 305 reaching the Battle Ground VORTAC. Despite basing an enormous amount of his Western Flight Path stuff on things Cliff has said (despite Cliff saying at CC last year that he had no problem with the FBI Flight Path), Eric is now seemingly ignoring Cliff's statement about 305 reaching Battle Ground. 

Eric's main issue is that he is basing a hypothesis on a piece of evidence with a nine year gap in chain of custody. That money could have ended up on TB in an enormous variety of ways over those 3000 days. What he's doing is taking the last chapter of a book, and despite not knowing what is in chapters 2-9, attempting to re-write the first chapter. It's very strange to me. You don't work backwards from evidence like that.

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My understanding is that Eric changed his path to closer to the "FBI" path until the swing West around Portland..

This is actually more plausible than the previous WFP..

If you use the 1 mile path error and the wind was more S you might get Cooper drifting close to TBAR.. and Cooper jumping exactly when the plane going West around Portland turned South. At one point the plane could have been about 5-6 miles from TBAR.. if the wind was S-SE he could have landed close.

You would also have to argue that he jumped later, after 8:15..

IMO, it is a low probability but it is more plausible than before.

Edited by FLYJACK

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3 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

My understanding is that Eric changed his path to closer to the "FBI" path until the swing West around Portland..

This is actually more plausible than the previous WFP..

If you use the 1 mile path error and the wind was more S you might get Cooper drifting close to TBAR.. and Cooper jumping exactly when the plane going West around Portland turned South. At one point the plane could have been about 5-6 miles from TBAR.. if the wind was S-SE he could have landed close.

You would also have to argue that he jumped later, after 8:15..

IMO, it is a low probability but it is more plausible than before.

FlyJack continues to wrongly insist that the winds at 10,000 feet were shifting around from the southeast to some place in the west. 

The winds were consistently from the southwest (245 degrees true) at altitude based on the NOAA balloon data and the predicted winds aloft provided by the FAA for the time the airliner was in the Seattle/Portland area.

When the airliner reached the Mayfield (now Malay) Intersection it had reached its western most position and turned to slightly east of true south.  Soon after passing the Malay Intersection the airliner left V-23 and flew direct to the Canby Intersection area.  It was never more than a few miles off V-23 and then only for a few minutes.

And if the airliner flew directly from the Malay Intersection to the Canby Intersection, it would have flown almost directly over Tena Bar.

There are several factors that have not been previously discussed on what is now call the Western Flight Path and I will try to post something on those in the next week or so.

Edited by Robert99

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40 minutes ago, Robert99 said:

When the airliner reached the Mayfield (now Malay) Intersection it had reached its western most position and turned to slightly east of true south.  Soon after passing the Malay Intersection the airliner left V-23 and flew direct to the Canby Intersection area.  It was never more than a few miles off V-23 and then only for a few minutes.

Prove it. 

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On 9/28/2023 at 9:43 AM, olemisscub said:

I've tried to see if there are any mentions of a plane landing there that night but the local papers for Cle Elum and that county aren't online. 

If it means that much to the group, I can request the microfilm for the Northern Kittitas County Tribune for November 1971 via Interlibrary Loan & look it up that way.

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31 minutes ago, SeventyWonderful said:

If it means that much to the group, I can request the microfilm for the Northern Kittitas County Tribune for November 1971 via Interlibrary Loan & look it up that way.

Well we all know that Reca’s story is bullshit so I don’t guess that’s totally necessary. But it would be interesting to see if the story was reported and it turns out to be something completely different than what Reca claims i.e. a pilot who ran out of gas or something. 

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24 minutes ago, Slim King said:

You are sounding like the FBI.... So funny. The plane flew its normal route. Not hard to consider since NO ONE saw it fly over Tacoma Chehalis, Centrailia, Castle Rock, Longview, Kelso, Woodland, Vancouver or Portland. ^SIX (all of then) aircraft FAILED to see it..... No one saw it.

Norjak did not fly East..  It is a lie.

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30 minutes ago, Slim King said:

That flight to Reno flies the Cle Elum flight path EVERY DAY!!!!!!!!! Is it so hard to believe that J.Edgar Hoover lied to you?

That is a lie...  I have checked at flightradar24 and current Sea - Reno flights do NOT go East. Flights East do not go to Reno.

For Norjak there is ZERO evidence the plane went East. All the evidence supports a Southern path..

So, you have to prove the Air Force, Sage radar, Chase pilots, FBI, Boeing, ATC, NWA, the transcripts, the military searches and the crew are all in on a big conspiracy.  

The Reca narrative is a lie. 

The real question is why do you and the Reca crew still push this lie?

Edited by FLYJACK

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3 hours ago, Robert99 said:

FlyJack continues to wrongly insist that the winds at 10,000 feet were shifting around from the southeast to some place in the west. 

The winds were consistently from the southwest (245 degrees true) at altitude based on the NOAA balloon data and the predicted winds aloft provided by the FAA for the time the airliner was in the Seattle/Portland area.

I have asked you for the data.. You never provide it.. don't say go find it.

Show me the actual data for the time and place that Cooper jumped.

and I have the ballon data.

What data do you have that proves the wind at the time and place Cooper jumped,,  because the FBI said it was an estimate based on Salem and Portland,,, there is no data.

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1 hour ago, olemisscub said:

Well we all know that Reca’s story is bullshit so I don’t guess that’s totally necessary. But it would be interesting to see if the story was reported and it turns out to be something completely different than what Reca claims i.e. a pilot who ran out of gas or something. 

Not being from the Pacific Northwest I was astonished to find out that Cle Elum is clear on the other side of the state of Washington.  A delusion is a fixed false belief and I will leave it like that.

Anyway there's a massive NEH grant for each state to collect and film as many historical newspapers as possible.  That part of the grant has passed and now the focus is on digitizing what was filmed as part of the US Newspapers Project. It looks like Washington hasn't done that with this title yet but the microfilm should be available for lending.

Just tell me what it is I'm looking for and I'll put in the request on Monday.

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58 minutes ago, SeventyWonderful said:

Not being from the Pacific Northwest I was astonished to find out that Cle Elum is clear on the other side of the state of Washington.  A delusion is a fixed false belief and I will leave it like that.

Anyway there's a massive NEH grant for each state to collect and film as many historical newspapers as possible.  That part of the grant has passed and now the focus is on digitizing what was filmed as part of the US Newspapers Project. It looks like Washington hasn't done that with this title yet but the microfilm should be available for lending.

Just tell me what it is I'm looking for and I'll put in the request on Monday.

Good deal. I guess we’d just want their newspapers from Nov to Dec 71.

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1 hour ago, Slim King said:

Cle Elum is on the flight path to Reno... They fly it every day!!!!! Who's deluded?

Wrong on two points.

Norjak did not go East... there is no evidence. It went South to Red Bluff..

and

Flights do not go East...   which is irrelevant to NORJAK.

SEA to RNO not East.

1217261523_ScreenShot2023-09-29at7_21_50PM.png.3c6edc9af522b9525a2cd962324f33fb.png

Edited by FLYJACK

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