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DB Cooper

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2 hours ago, ParrotheadVol said:

No, I am not pissed. I don't get pissed off on anything related to DBC or these forums. This isn't my life. It's just something I'm interested in and I follow. So no, not pissed.

I just don't buy for one second that these movie folks were going to do a DBC movie, invest millions of dollars in the project, and were going to go to an internet message board for their source material. I'm not that stupid. 

I believe they came to you, and worked out a deal. Good for you. But I think in the process, you "warned" them about all of the other folks in "Cooperville". I don't think that they gave a rats ass about not being able to view links on the forum. If they were there to do real research, they would have joined and done the research. 

I believe the offer you made to Bruce was a bullshit offer. I do not believe for one second that you would have ever worked with Bruce. Making the offer was simply a way for you to say you tried. Truth is, you don't want to work with anyone in "Cooperville" any more than they want to work with you. Difference is, they are all honest about it.

I am a bit surprised though, that they didn't go to Geoff Gray instead of you (even though we all know Geoff is now involved anyway). 

Well, I gave it to you (and everybody else who hangs out here) the straight-up, 100% complete story on how the film came to be...and you choose to call it all a lie. I will address some of your points, though. 

I never said they were going to the Cooper Forum exclusively. They went all over the internet to the usual stuff I'm sure. I only know the Cooper Forum was one of the first places they checked. And they were hanging out there, probably Wiki, researching articles, whatever, for at least two months before they contacted me. 

Nobody said you were stupid. 

Yes, we discussed Cooperland at length. They asked me what all the hatred was about. Seems reasonable. You guys were really going off with that stuff back then. Not so much these days, except at Smith's place. But you were. And it got their attention. 

Yes...they WERE annoyed at not being able to access any content beyond straight text at the Cooper Forum. 

Yes...the offer to Bruce was legit. He didn't even ask to see the contract. Two reasons I made the offer to him. First, I've met him and I have seen where he lives. He hasn't two nickels to rub together, and I knew he would be good at checking the script for historical inaccuracies. Frankly, one of the main reasons the production company wanted some Cooper folk on board was because they wanted their names in the credits as consultants, or named 'associate producers'. Frankly Parrot, it's a two-way thing related to marketing. They pay you a pretty fat sum for not a whole lot of actual work, and in exchange they get to put your name and the title of your book into the credits front and back. It's very common practice in Hollywood, as I'm sure you know. 

I didn't know anybody else who not only needed the damn money, but could probably do the job. It was a gift basically. He goes over maybe 20-30 pages of the script, he gets a lot in exchange. I even told him it wouldn't lower his Social Security payments because $15,000 was below the yearly threshold. However, I think Bruce was already 66 anyway and I don't think there is a limit on earnings after that age. Another big factor was that Bruce is local to Puget Sound. Besides myself, he's about the only Cooper person who does. Most of you live far and away from the PNW. 

I must have sent Bruce 20 emails. I don't waste my time with that kind of communication unless I'm serious. 

I don't give a damn whether people 'want to work with me'. It's business, not personal. You know the quote. I told Bruce once that if he had made me the same offer...I would have grabbed it with both hands and never looked back. And you are supposed to be the Big Cooper Expert Community. My opinion is that you all foolishly let your emotions get in the way of what was strictly business. Your choice. Turning down lucrative offers, or at least offers to provide input...only means you have no voice in the final version of the first DB Cooper movie ever produced.

The Pursuit of D.B. Cooper doesn't count. Neither does Up The Creek

Side Note: I saw your post after I dropped by the Cooper Forum this morning. Better stay home for a couple of weeks. This crisis has got everybody rattled right now, including me. But I don't wish ill on anybody. Not you, not Bruce, not anyone. It's going to get a lot worse in the next few weeks. After that, you can expect a recession worse than the one in 2008. Gayla and I have decided maybe it's time to hang up the work thing for good, and sooner than we planned. I'm already making plans to move...probably before the end of the year. My mother in law lives in SoCal and has a big guest house out back. We will probably go there until the movie starts shooting, and then we're getting our own place nearby...or possibly in Arizona. But one thing is for sure, we're not staying here in the NW much longer. 

 

 

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(edited)

Of course Georger has it wrong,, big surprise,,,

Hijacker's shifted to using bombs to thwart the increasing deployment of sky marshals. 

Bombs were not necessarily political but a tactical progression.

A bomb with a deadman switch neutralized any potential sky marshal..

Cooper wasn't making a political statement, he just wanted $200,000...

 

Cooper saw an opportunity he thought he could pull off and went for it.

 

.

 

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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(edited)
17 minutes ago, dudeman17 said:

Someone at The Forum said that Cooper had a facial tic. Anyone here familiar with that? Where the information comes from, how accurate it is?

I think that came from Jo Weber,,, aka completely unreliable.

Edited by FLYJACK

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(edited)

('That Guy' is back, this time he's 'Jerry Warner'. Don't forget to click on his name and go to his profile and hit the ignore button on him. Makes all of his posts vanish like magic. I'm actually getting good at doing that. Posts reported, of course.)

Cooper Vortex says in part:

Quote

"I was really excited about working on the movie with you Robert, but you took the job away from me because I was attending CooperCon..."

That is partially true. But it doesn't tell the whole story. We have already discussed this at length privately, as you know. 

I dropped you from the Contributor list at the Quora Space on Cooper, and from consideration for participation in the movie, mostly for supporting the SECOND convention...after you were informed about Eric's poor behavior at Numero Uno convention. And also about his actions accepting the invitation to host the event in Portland...simply to make sure he could try to rid Cooper fans of it. Which he succeeded in doing. A lot of work down the drain, a lot of people were disappointed. You knew all about it, and still supported the second CooperCon enthusiastically. 

I couldn't reconcile that at all. I will not work with people who don't have the guts to stand up for what is right, or what is the truth. Had you and a few other people stood up for AB of Seattle's honest and straightforward approach to the Portland event, instead of sucking up to a liar and a scammer...I would not have had to make the choice I did. And Eric, without support from some of the main folks who ended up showing for him at Kiggins, would have kept his word and hosted the Portland event instead as he said he would. You and others were the 'enablers' for him. And settled for a rather lame event, instead of the Big Cooper Celebration that you COULD have had. At least I saved myself a couple of thousand bucks. That's one way of looking at it. 

What did you all end up with? Not much. Our plan was much better than Eric's lame event...and Eric was to host the whole thing. A thousand bucks in Amazon gift cards as prizes for the Lookalike Contest, live music at Mississippi Studios, a famous Hollywood star either showing up (likely) or providing a video, (less likely), same speakers since Eric was to arrange the schedule, two short films, the cast of Decoded appearing (one flying in from Maryland after a stint with the Army Reserve in Afghanistan) almost certainly an SRO event where Cooper authors would have experienced a boost in sales afterward, free food, the list goes on, on, on. 

Instead...you got Ulis' alternate version, which in my opinion wasn't much at all. Picture below of a typical event at Mississippi Studios, or if advance tickets had warranted, the larger venue at Revolution Hall that was held in reserve if we needed it. Truth is, you guys keep shooting yourselves in the foot SO much...I'm surprised you are not going around in wheelchairs. ¬¬

One thing is for sure. I am not trying to organize any further Cooper events. (Even another Cooper Campout is doubtful at this point, but that is for other reasons.) And just so you'll know...it wasn't my idea to put together that whole package. I was ASKED to do it by others. And I don't like to have my time wasted by some scammer and his cronies. Eric is about as dumb as a box of hammers anyway. He was told that if wanted to do HIS event instead and not host the Portland event, we would be willing to schedule the Portland event to a different day, so as not to conflict with his. But instead he scammed everyone by accepting the hosting job in Portland when he had no intention of following though. He could have just refused the job, you know. In that case, the host would have been Jim Brunberg. Later, I got a couple of reports that some of the Portland event sponsors and organizers were receiving poison-pen emails saying we were liars, scammers, etc etc. Brunberg had warned people he wasn't putting up with that crap, you know. 

And before anyone starts saying this event was a promo for AB of Seattle or myself...I wasn't even going to attend in person anyway. I had to be in San Diego for Thanksgiving. We just arranged a few things and everything else was to be handled by Jim Brunberg and yes...probably Eric...since he was supposedly the host. But we did it because other people wanted some kind of replacement to the Ariel Store party. Combining the convention with a party seemed like the best idea. 

MIstudios.jpg.a5fcf861a36713b49e47867886626589.jpg

Revolution-HallWEB.jpg.3caa58d8a4e7fda0728c4c2a580b333b.jpg

Basically, we put our money where our mouths are (again), and basically the main players in Cooperland rejected it. Your loss, not ours. At least I didn't buy the Amazon cards in advance. B)

 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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6 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Of course Georger has it wrong,, big surprise,,,

Hijacker's shifted to using bombs to thwart the increasing deployment of sky marshals. 

Bombs were not necessarily political but a tactical progression.

A bomb with a deadman switch neutralized any potential sky marshal..

Cooper wasn't making a political statement, he just wanted $200,000...

Cooper saw an opportunity he thought he could pull off and went for it.

We agree on this assessment of things. A bomb is a good threat. A gun only provides you with two choices. If they don't comply, you can start shooting. And if you have any kind of soul or character, it isn't as easy as you think to just shoot someone for money. Or...if the key moment comes and you find you just aren't the murdering type, you can toss out the gun and surrender. 

The bomb is a threat, too. But it is also a better bluff than a gun and can do more damage. Personally, I think the bomb was a phony. 

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(edited)
5 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

(Bumped to bypass the spammer)

('That Guy' is back, this time he's 'Jerry Warner'. Don't forget to click on his name and go to his profile and hit the ignore button on him. Makes all of his posts vanish like magic. I'm actually getting good at doing that. Posts reported, of course.)

Cooper Vortex says in part:

"I was really excited about working on the movie with you Robert, but you took the job away from me because I was attending CooperCon..."

That is partially true. But it doesn't tell the whole story. We have already discussed this at length privately, as you know. 

I dropped you from the Contributor list at the Quora Space on Cooper, and from consideration for participation in the movie, mostly for supporting the SECOND convention...after you were informed about Eric's poor behavior at Numero Uno convention. And also about his actions accepting the invitation to host the event in Portland...simply to make sure he could try to rid Cooper fans of it. Which he succeeded in doing. A lot of work down the drain, a lot of people were disappointed. You knew all about it, and still supported the second CooperCon enthusiastically. 

I couldn't reconcile that at all. I will not work with people who don't have the guts to stand up for what is right, or what is the truth. Had you and a few other people stood up for AB of Seattle's honest and straightforward approach to the Portland event, instead of sucking up to a liar and a scammer...I would not have had to make the choice I did. And Eric, without support from some of the main folks who ended up showing for him at Kiggins, would have kept his word and hosted the Portland event instead as he said he would. You and others were the 'enablers' for him. And settled for a rather lame event, instead of the Big Cooper Celebration that you COULD have had. At least I saved myself a couple of thousand bucks. That's one way of looking at it. 

What did you all end up with? Not much. Our plan was much better than Eric's lame event...and Eric was to host the whole thing. A thousand bucks in Amazon gift cards as prizes for the Lookalike Contest, live music at Mississippi Studios, a famous Hollywood star either showing up (likely) or providing a video, (less likely), same speakers since Eric was to arrange the schedule, two short films, the cast of Decoded appearing (one flying in from Maryland after a stint with the Army Reserve in Afghanistan) almost certainly an SRO event where Cooper authors would have experienced a boost in sales afterward, free food, the list goes on, on, on. 

Instead...you got Ulis' alternate version, which in my opinion wasn't much at all. Picture below of a typical event at Mississippi Studios, or if advance tickets had warranted, the larger venue at Revolution Hall that was held in reserve if we needed it. Truth is, you guys keep shooting yourselves in the foot SO much...I'm surprised you are not going around in wheelchairs. ¬¬

One thing is for sure. I am not trying to organize any further Cooper events. (Even another Cooper Campout is doubtful at this point, but that is for other reasons.) And just so you'll know...it wasn't my idea to put together that whole package. I was ASKED to do it by others. And I don't like to have my time wasted by some scammer and his cronies. Eric is about as dumb as a box of hammers anyway. He was told that if wanted to do HIS event instead and not host the Portland event, we would be willing to schedule the Portland event to a different day, so as not to conflict with his. But instead he scammed everyone by accepting the hosting job in Portland when he had no intention of following though. He could have just refused the job, you know. In that case, the host would have been Jim Brunberg. Later, I got a couple of reports that some of the Portland event sponsors and organizers were receiving poison-pen emails saying we were liars, scammers, etc etc. Brunberg had warned people he wasn't putting up with that crap, you know. 

And before anyone starts saying this event was a promo for AB of Seattle or myself...I wasn't even going to attend in person anyway. I had to be in San Diego for Thanksgiving. We just arranged a few things and everything else was to be handled by Jim Brunberg and yes...probably Eric...since he was supposedly the host. But we did it because other people wanted some kind of replacement to the Ariel Store party. Combining the convention with a party seemed like the best idea. 

MIstudios.jpg.a5fcf861a36713b49e47867886626589.jpg

Revolution-HallWEB.jpg.3caa58d8a4e7fda0728c4c2a580b333b.jpg

Basically, we put our money where our mouths are (again), and basically the main players in Cooperland rejected it. Your loss, not ours. At least I didn't buy the Amazon cards in advance. B)

 

 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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(edited)

Dropzone is under attack, and the attack is coming from Bruce Smith's Mountain News website. A formerly respected voice in the case who now supports hatred and online attacks from his own website. Don't believe that? Check the posts HERE at his website and see for yourself. As well as the comments above the one I linked. They make many references to the DZ spammer and his attacks, Bruce Smith KNOWS they are doing it, and supports it completely. 

As far as I'm concerned, anyone who supports hatred, spamming, and online attacks on other websites...from his OWN Cooper-related website...no longer has any credibility at ALL in the Cooper case. 

Nice going, Bruce. You went from a respected person in the decades-long investigation into D.B. Cooper to a cheap supporter of hatred and spam. At your own website, no less. 

The evidence speaks for itself. Bruce has received several messages about this issue and has ignored all of them. Credibility=Absolute Zero.

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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Blowing up a plane was a common method for making a political statement.. that is terrorism.

Hijacking for ransom using the threat of a bomb is altogether different. 

Cooper was not making a political statement. He was after the cash..

Cooper's use of a (dead man switch) bomb was tactical to thwart potential sky marshal's or being shot by a sniper.

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On 4/3/2020 at 4:40 PM, dudeman17 said:

Someone at The Forum said that Cooper had a facial tic. Anyone here familiar with that? Where the information comes from, how accurate it is?

Is that the DB Cooper Forum? Can you point me to that post?  Thank You.

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3 hours ago, 812Shadow said:

Is that the DB Cooper Forum? Can you point me to that post?  Thank You.

(Regarding whether someone alleged Cooper had a facial tic.}
Answer: First, absolutely not. No one has ever said that, i.e. none of the witness statements say any such thing. Whether an armchair investigator said it, you would have to go to the Cooper Forum yourself and ask about it. 

From Flyjack:

Quote

 

Blowing up a plane was a common method for making a political statement.. that is terrorism.

Hijacking for ransom using the threat of a bomb is altogether different. 

Cooper was not making a political statement. He was after the cash..

Cooper's use of a (dead man switch) bomb was tactical to thwart potential sky marshal's or being shot by a sniper.

 

All of those statements are true. No one knows of any dead man switch, though. There was a mention of two bare wires that Cooper would *almost* touch together, as a sort of threat/warning. 

We know he was worried about snipers, just from his telling Stewardess Mucklow to close all the window shades. 

Cooper did not have any political demands. I'm guessing he wasn't a Republican, though. ^_^ He would have bought a First Class ticket. <<<<<<< that was a joke. 

EDIT:  Flyjack...on the blowing up of planes for political statements. *Most* of the time this was done when terrorists didn't get what they want, such as getting certain countries to release their friends in jail somewhere. Sometimes they just did it anyway. If you want to see the stories behind a hundred different hijackings, I always recommend the site by the author of The Skies Belong to Us, (Brendan Koerner) His book is about one of the longest hijackings ever done. From Los Angeles...to San Francisco...on to New York...and eventually on to Algeria. DB Cooper wasn't the only hijacker who got away with it. They are still looking for Cathy Kerkow, who is almost certainly in Europe to this very day under an assumed name, and a new passport she probably lied to get from a US embassy in Switzerland. (I highly recommend this book.) Her boyfriend and co-conspirator Willie Holder eventually turned himself in, served a few years and was released. But Cathy is still out there somewhere. And she speaks French like a native.  

catherine-marie-kerkow.jpg.70c1315f724851f12da5d22e2c1e73f6.jpg

 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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On 4/3/2020 at 1:40 PM, dudeman17 said:

Someone at The Forum said that Cooper had a facial tic. Anyone here familiar with that? Where the information comes from, how accurate it is?

 

2 hours ago, 812Shadow said:

Is that the DB Cooper Forum? Can you point me to that post?  Thank You.

Yes, the DB Cooper Forum. The 'Clues, Documents, and Evidence' thread, page 357, 5 posts down, by poster Prospector.

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1 hour ago, dudeman17 said:

 

Yes, the DB Cooper Forum. The 'Clues, Documents, and Evidence' thread, page 357, 5 posts down, by poster Prospector.

Cooper did not have a facial tic, no matter what Prospector claims. That feature certainly would have been noticed by the witnesses. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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45 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Cooper did not have a facial tic, no matter what Prospector claims. That feature certainly would have been noticed by the witnesses. 

Thank you.  I read a few of his posts.  He's a half wit pretending to be a psychologist.  I see nothing from him that talks about the case.  As of right now his information is useless.

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One of my favorite hijacking incidents was the Raul Arana (and friends) story. When they landed in Costa Rica, even the country's President got involved. He grabbed his personal submachine gun and drove to the airport. 

Hijackers wanted this, wanted that. They got nothing except a hail of bullets and tear gas. 

El Presidente ordered his troops to start with tear gas, and then open fire on the jet. Two hijackers killed, two others sent back to Nicaragua on extradition. The President was firing right along with his troops. 

LESSON: Bad idea to hijack a jet and land there, I guess. 

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(edited)

Cooper was right handed,, he had his right hand in the case when he carried it to the lav. Dominant hand in the case while carrying..

 

Looks like this came from Tina..

 

THE ATTACHE CASE WHEN HE WAS MOVING TOWARDS THE LAVATORY. HE WAS CARRYING THE CASE ON ITS SIDE IN HIS LEFT HAND WITH HIS RIGHT HAND IN THE CASE."

The context is the FBI page number 2859

 

Edit,, I just noticed in this doc Cooper wore ankle length shoes... that isn't loafers..

 

s-l1600-4.jpg.38fe96211d64672e2c1520aaac5c0cbc.jpg.8b3a42638baa67cf51199f0973b19198.jpgcooperlavrighthandbomb.jpeg.37038681bee535c799fbed46242bf27c.jpeg

Edited by FLYJACK

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(edited)

Cooper was right handed..

I tested this on lots of people,, walking to a (bathroom) door with a case and a hand inside holding something. 100% used their dominant hand to hold the object inside the case. The less dominant hand supports the case. 

If Shutter doesn't use his dominant hand to hold the bomb while walking to a lav he is mistaken or an oddball and just blew up the plane..

For control while walking you want your dominant hand securing the bomb as you move. When you stop you can use your dominant hand to open the door or do whatever..

 

The tie clip doesn't go on left or right handed,, the side is determined by the shirt. Men's shirts button on right, women's usually on left. Cooper's tie was clipped on from right.

 

The other point I made before was that Cooper would have sat on the left side of the plane if he was left handed to have his dominant left hand in the case. 

He sat on the right with his right hand in the case, even if Cooper couldn't sit on the left immediately he could have sat anywhere he wanted to once the hijacking started.

You don't pick the side to sit based on your right/left handedness. You pick a side based on using your dominant hand to hold a bomb trigger with the case placed on that side.

 

IMO, the FBI knows if he was right or left handed but isn't disclosing it.

Edited by FLYJACK

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Into our third week of Covid-based isolation, except we are lucky enough to still work a few times a week. I'm already planning another escape to the high country in early May. Where I go, there isn't any Covid, because there aren't any people. Just the way I like it. 

Production on the D.B. Cooper picture has come to a halt until the crisis is over, but everyone still keeps in contact and continues to work on the script. It's all we can do right now. Maybe this is a blessing in disguise. I've had time to tweak up the script quite a bit lately. 

I have stockpiled enough supplies to last nearly three months, not by hoarding, but by using patience at Amazon and by doing reasonable shopping here and there. We are free from visiting stores (aka death traps right now) for a good long time. We venture out a couple of times a week for work, but only with families we've been serving for over a decade. And there are protocols, such as they cannot be home when we serve them. Mostly they aren't anyway, but for the moment it is policy. I don't need the money all that much. It's just a good way to get out of the house. 

It's doubtful we will sponsor a final 'DB Cooper Campout' before moving out of Washington state, but if we do it will only be when things are much safer. I think because of Covid, that has come to an end and I would like to thank all of the people who showed up for the campouts we did. Gayla and I have decided to let the movie speak for itself, while moving down to SoCal to be closer to the folks assisting us in all of this. It is time. 

It's tough to admit it is time to move on from Cooper, but we've done all we can on the Cooper case. More than most of you did, and we accomplished this while wading through the negative stuff that was tossed our way for years. We leave a legacy of TV shows, helping Bryan at the Ariel Store, trying to toss the biggest Cooper Party ever conceived, a book, campouts all over the PNW about it, and a major motion picture coming in 2021. 

For a pair of toilet scrubbers, that is not badB)

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(edited)

Wow...Dropzone is getting faster, and BETTER, at deleting the spammer. I had just put him on the ignore list again, and then he was gone. 

Just a reminder...if you want to know who is supporting these juvenile attacks on the DZ thread, it is someone who hangs out at Bruce Smith's Mountain News...and SUPPORTED online by Bruce Smith. Don't believe that?

Go look for yourself, folks. Then start reading the comments going UP. 

Bruce actually wrote a book on the Cooper case, and has appeared at conventions. But he has gone renegade and straight to the gutter. First, he's caught lying about the final Cooper Party ever held at the Ariel Store. Then he goes off the deep end and supports hatred and online attacks on his own website.

He's finally become a full-blown victim of the Vortex, and so desperate for comments to his blog, he will take anything...even if it destroys his own credibility. 

I have no sympathy for the guy. AT ALL. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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