DB Cooper

[georger 194]

13 minutes ago, Chaucer said:

Well, he has had 14 years of practice...

Well to be fair, R99 has had a powerful affect on all Cooper discussion. He has brought issues forward that nobody has, or could.  I am grateful for that. It has made everyone sharper and more concerned with digging facts out - 

[Robert99 37]

1 hour ago, georger said:

You never stop!  The basics of the flight path are known. Its the time of separation and the Drop zone that are still being debated. But, nowhere in any official record is there anything about Tena Bar being the drop zone! That is a new novel idea brought forth by Ulis, subscribed by you since Ulis started appearing on TV   ....  based on absolutely NOTHING but a script for a television program ?

Moreover R99, your original posts going back 14 years did not even claim that Tena Bar was thee Drop Zone!  I wonder if Walker would have even allowed you on his website if your original claim was 'Cooper's DZ was Tena Bar' ! I think Walker might have drawn the line at that. That would have been a claim deserving instant ridicule.  That claim is just one example of how you and Ulis have changed the whole dynamic of the Cooper discussion,  but your original posts did not reflect that 'aberration'.  

Your original posts were as much concerned with you explaining the hydrodynamics and geography of Tena Bar and the surrounding water system, vs your western flight path and DZ alone. Dont you recall your own posts? SafecrackingPLF got on board with your posts and posted maps of the Columbian Basin tributary system  (see attached).  Safecracking followed with his "9 Reasons" and his Logic system with Youtube videos! Agent Carr got on board with this and applauded Safecracking's work. You and your west path faded into the background!

Then when Ulis joined the discussion your west path doctrine had a reincarnation and morphed into:  the new Dtropzone is at Tena Bar. You explained that that is why money was found at Tena Bar -  because "water flows down hill" !  Yada yada yada yada.

Maybe you will change your mind tomorrow with some new novelty ?

Georger, you have really got your "facts" wrong.  Just about my first post on this site related to problems with the so-called FBI Flight Path.  I joined this site in March 2009 but didn't start posting here until I had obtained some related data from the National Archives on the hijacking.  I also started another thread about the Cooper hijacking on this site but after discovering that everything about the hijacking was supposed to be on the present thread, I informed Quade about it and he locked it.  However, Meso apparently merged the locked thread with this one when he reactivated this one.  So, there may be some confusion about post numbers. 

I had never heard of this site until Sluggo (Wayne Walker) referred me to it and told me how to find it.  Sluggo never said a word to me at any time about the Western Flight Path being wrong nor did he make any critical comment about it to me.

Your claim that Carr posted criticisms here about the Western Flight Path is apparently just more of your nonsense.  I don't remember seeing a single post by Carr on the present thread.  By that I mean that while Carr apparently posted on the thread that was locked by Quade in 2008, he has not to my knowledge posted on this thread since then during Quade's or Meso's time as running it.

Georger's other comments are just more ducking and weaving.

[Robert99 37]

1 hour ago, Chaucer said:

Robert? Are you well? We discussed this very topic on December 4th of last year on the Forum. Go look for yourself. 

The original teletype contained no nefarious or suspicious redactions. Only things redacted were related to flights unrelated to 305. 

This isn't complicated...do you need me to explain more simplistically?

Yes, I am well.  I wasn't aware of any discussion related to me on this thread last December.  Some day if I don't have anything better to do, I'll see if I can find it.  But I don't have time to do it now.

Chaucer, how is your health?  Are you still claiming to be an "expert" on the Zodiac?  If so, have you been able to figure out what actually constitutes the Zodiac ciphers?  If you are going to solve them, you have to figure out what the ciphers are.  At least that seems logical to me, but you may not operate that way.

[olemisscub 461]

42 minutes ago, Robert99 said:

 

Your claim that Carr posted criticisms here about the Western Flight Path is apparently just more of your nonsense.  I don't remember seeing a single post by Carr on the present thread.  By that I mean that while Carr apparently posted on the thread that was locked by Quade in 2008, he has not to my knowledge posted on this thread since then during Quade's or Meso's time as running it.

 

Just in case you were wondering where he stands on the WFP, he posted this last week.

 

Edited August 28, 2023 by olemisscub

[georger 194]

9 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

Just in case you were wondering where he stands on the WFP, he posted this last week.

Smile. Applause. 

[georger 194]

43 minutes ago, Robert99 said:

Georger, you have really got your "facts" wrong.  Just about my first post on this site related to problems with the so-called FBI Flight Path.  I joined this site in March 2009 but didn't start posting here until I had obtained some related data from the National Archives on the hijacking.  I also started another thread about the Cooper hijacking on this site but after discovering that everything about the hijacking was supposed to be on the present thread, I informed Quade about it and he locked it.  However, Meso apparently merged the locked thread with this one when he reactivated this one.  So, there may be some confusion about post numbers. 

I had never heard of this site until Sluggo (Wayne Walker) referred me to it and told me how to find it.  Sluggo never said a word to me at any time about the Western Flight Path being wrong nor did he make any critical comment about it to me.

Your claim that Carr posted criticisms here about the Western Flight Path is apparently just more of your nonsense.  I don't remember seeing a single post by Carr on the present thread.  By that I mean that while Carr apparently posted on the thread that was locked by Quade in 2008, he has not to my knowledge posted on this thread since then during Quade's or Meso's time as running it.

Georger's other comments are just more ducking and weaving.

Your claim that Carr posted criticisms here about the Western Flight Path is apparently just more of your nonsense.  I don't remember seeing a single post by Carr on the present thread.  By that I mean that while Carr apparently posted on the thread that was locked by Quade in 2008, he has not to my knowledge posted on this thread since then during Quade's or Meso's time as running it.

I never made any such post ...... on this planet!   Check your gps.   You may not be on Earth! ? 

Robert, you have lost your mind? Stop making shit up!   It is pointless in any event. Enjoy your trip to wherever. Bye!

Edited August 28, 2023 by georger

[Andrade1812 51]

On 7/14/2023 at 2:24 PM, Robert99 said:

 

Maybe we can work on the timing of the jump for a week or so? Maybe drop the flight path for a few days...

[Chaucer 102]

4 hours ago, Robert99 said:

Yes, I am well.  I wasn't aware of any discussion related to me on this thread last December.  Some day if I don't have anything better to do, I'll see if I can find it.  But I don't have time to do it now.

Chaucer, how is your health?  Are you still claiming to be an "expert" on the Zodiac?  If so, have you been able to figure out what actually constitutes the Zodiac ciphers?  If you are going to solve them, you have to figure out what the ciphers are.  At least that seems logical to me, but you may not operate that way.

No, seriously. Are you OK? I'm worried about you. 

The discussion was about the unredacted teletype on Shutter's forum. It wasn't about you, and it wasn't here.

My health is actually shit right now, but at least I know I'll never die. Heaven doesn't want me, and hell's afraid I'm going to take over. 

That said, I've never claimed to be an expert on anything. And despite your perpetual misunderstanding of this, I've never claimed to have solved the Zodiac ciphers. My friend and his group did, as confirmed by the FBI. 

So, it's been 24 hours and you still have not provided any evidence in favor of a western flight path. Just dips and dodges. 

How long do I have to wait? Or have you forgotten what we were talking about? Maybe you should see someone. I'm concerned. 

[Chaucer 102]

2 hours ago, Andrade1812 said:

Maybe we can work on the timing of the jump for a week or so? Maybe drop the flight path for a few days...

Marty, if you look closely at the USAF map there seems to be an indication of a red X just between 8:15 and 8:16 near Pearson Air Field. I can't make it out. 

[georger 194]

4 hours ago, Andrade1812 said:

Maybe we can work on the timing of the jump for a week or so? Maybe drop the flight path for a few days...

That is probably the next move. Im in favor of anything that shifts focus away from .... west path noodle soup ? Assuming the wp is no longer a factor, we shift back to where things were before that card counting shape shifter nonsense began.  How then did money get to Tbar. We are back where we started! Yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.  Especially if we stipulate that money did not fall directly from 305 into the Columbia. That brings us back to where Deputy Jones said we were in 1980, quote: "If the money is here, Cooper was here, or someone with the money was here, somewhere close enough to have the flow of the Columbia finish the story ...." ? 

Cousin Jones favored the 1974 dredging option!

Edited August 29, 2023 by georger

[Andrade1812 51]

1 hour ago, Chaucer said:

Marty, if you look closely at the USAF map there seems to be an indication of a red X just between 8:15 and 8:16 near Pearson Air Field. I can't make it out. 

Looks like the mark for Evergreen Field, now defunct. Hard to tell.

[Robert99 37]

5 hours ago, olemisscub said:

Just in case you were wondering where he stands on the WFP, he posted this last week.

 

It appears that Carr was posting on some other site and not this one.  Whose site is the D.B. Cooper: Mystery Group?  Ulis?  I don't believe that I have ever heard of it, but I am not on Facebook or other such social media sites.

OleMiss, if you or anyone else on DZ are in contact with Carr I would like to ask him a several simple questions if someone can pass them to him.

1.  Have you (Carr) ever seen a copy of the Seattle ATC radio transcripts that didn't have numerous dash lines (like - - - - - -) in it?

2.  Why does the FAA refer all FOIA requests for copies of the Seattle ATC radio transcripts to the FBI?  It should be noted that a version of the Seattle ATC radio transcripts has already been publicly released as well as a complete version of the Oakland ATC radio transcripts.

3.  Why does the FBI FOIA office change names of the requesters to prevent them from appealing to the DOJ?  I have had federal licenses since the age of 16, served in the military, and worked for and retired from DOD and they never got my name wrong, but the FBI FOIA office did, and it was deliberate.

4.  My congressman (and later Senator) worked through the FBI's Congressional Liaison Office to submit an FOIA request to the FAA which resulted in a referral back to the FBI and an FOIA request to the FBI which resulted in a couple of pages.  If the version of the Seattle ATC radio transcripts that has been publicly released is the correct one, what prevents the FAA/FBI from saying so?

[Robert99 37]

6 hours ago, georger said:

Your claim that Carr posted criticisms here about the Western Flight Path is apparently just more of your nonsense.  I don't remember seeing a single post by Carr on the present thread.  By that I mean that while Carr apparently posted on the thread that was locked by Quade in 2008, he has not to my knowledge posted on this thread since then during Quade's or Meso's time as running it.

I never made any such post ...... on this planet!   Check your gps.   You may not be on Earth! ? 

Robert, you have lost your mind? Stop making shit up!   It is pointless in any event. Enjoy your trip to wherever. Bye!

Georger, if you read the post by OleMiss you should notice that Carr was not posting to DropZone which happens to be this site in case you have forgotten.  So as far as I can determine, Carr posted on DZ in 2008 or earlier before Quade locked that thread but not on the later threads which includes the present one.

[Robert99 37]

2 hours ago, Chaucer said:

No, seriously. Are you OK? I'm worried about you. 

The discussion was about the unredacted teletype on Shutter's forum. It wasn't about you, and it wasn't here.

My health is actually shit right now, but at least I know I'll never die. Heaven doesn't want me, and hell's afraid I'm going to take over. 

That said, I've never claimed to be an expert on anything. And despite your perpetual misunderstanding of this, I've never claimed to have solved the Zodiac ciphers. My friend and his group did, as confirmed by the FBI. 

So, it's been 24 hours and you still have not provided any evidence in favor of a western flight path. Just dips and dodges. 

How long do I have to wait? Or have you forgotten what we were talking about? Maybe you should see someone. I'm concerned. 

Chaucer, in some of your posts on the Internet you have claimed to be a Zodiac "expert" and you have claimed that a couple of the Zodiac ciphers have already been solved.  Your memory seems to be as bad as Georger's.

[georger 194]

1 hour ago, Robert99 said:

Georger, if you read the post by OleMiss you should notice that Carr was not posting to DropZone which happens to be this site in case you have forgotten.  So as far as I can determine, Carr posted on DZ in 2008 or earlier before Quade locked that thread but not on the later threads which includes the present one.

When you figure it out be sure and let me and the world know.

Why dont you go back to what you were doing in 2008 ie. commenting on streams, hydrology, etc which might have an influence on Tena Bar .  You were better at that than on your redacted west path baloney. 

And, you might actually read Carr's recent comments posted by OleMiss rather than preaching to others to "read" it?  What you are posting makes no sense in the here and now!

You lost your way about 2008. Its your choice!  Frankly R99 I am not interested in anything further from you.   

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by georger

[Chaucer 102]

2 hours ago, Robert99 said:

Chaucer, in some of your posts on the Internet you have claimed to be a Zodiac "expert" and you have claimed that a couple of the Zodiac ciphers have already been solved.  Your memory seems to be as bad as Georger's.

I research the Zodiac case. I don't believe I've described myself as an expert. 

And yes, two of the Zodiac ciphers have been solved. This has been verified by the FBI. You know this. I have shared multiple links. The fact that you refuse to accept this fact further undermines your already waning credibility.

That said, I am still waiting on you to post some positive evidence for a westerly flight path. Until you have done so, I am going to consider this conversation over.

Toodle-loo. 

Edited August 29, 2023 by Chaucer

[Chaucer 102]

2 hours ago, Andrade1812 said:

Looks like the mark for Evergreen Field, now defunct. Hard to tell.

No, that's too far east. It's the spot southeast of Pearson Air Park by the river between 8:15 and 8:16.

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by Chaucer

[Andrade1812 51]

5 hours ago, Chaucer said:

No, that's too far east. It's the spot southeast of Pearson Air Park by the river between 8:15 and 8:16.

 

I see what you are seeing, the tiniest hint of a mark. I doubt it's anything, way too subtle a mark, but we'd need to look at the real map itself to be sure.

[olemisscub 461]

9 hours ago, Robert99 said:

 

2.  Why does the FAA refer all FOIA requests for copies of the Seattle ATC radio transcripts to the FBI?  It should be noted that a version of the Seattle ATC radio transcripts has already been publicly released as well as a complete version of the Oakland ATC radio transcripts.

3.  Why does the FBI FOIA office change names of the requesters to prevent them from appealing to the DOJ?  I have had federal licenses since the age of 16, served in the military, and worked for and retired from DOD and they never got my name wrong, but the FBI FOIA office did, and it was deliberate.

4.  My congressman (and later Senator) worked through the FBI's Congressional Liaison Office to submit an FOIA request to the FAA which resulted in a referral back to the FBI and an FOIA request to the FBI which resulted in a couple of pages.  If the version of the Seattle ATC radio transcripts that has been publicly released is the correct one, what prevents the FAA/FBI from saying so?

FOIA's are very tricky and require precise wording to get what you need. It's not uncommon to file 3 or 4 FOIA's before getting the exact wording right. 

Also, if you think the FBI is stonewalling you or anyone else about the freaking ATC radio transcripts, then I'd recommend taking a deep breath and coming back to reality because that is simply bananas. 

Again, what are you expecting to find? A quote from Rataczak saying "Heads up folks, we're about to drunk drive off V-23 and do our own thing for a little while."

Edited August 29, 2023 by olemisscub

[FLYJACK 654]

Robert, the Seattle redactions have been solved..

The FBI made it clear Nov 30, 1971.

It was edited to EXCLUDE all traffic of Northwest Airlines, except that pertaining to the hijacked Flight 305.

  

If you want to make an argument for the WFP the tape redactions are not a premise.

[Robert99 37]

10 hours ago, georger said:

When you figure it out be sure and let me and the world know.

Why dont you go back to what you were doing in 2008 ie. commenting on streams, hydrology, etc which might have an influence on Tena Bar .  You were better at that than on your redacted west path baloney. 

And, you might actually read Carr's recent comments posted by OleMiss rather than preaching to others to "read" it?  What you are posting makes no sense in the here and now!

You lost your way about 2008. Its your choice!  Frankly R99 I am not interested in anything further from you.   

 

For the benefit of people on DropZone who can read, which obviously doesn't include Georger, I had never heard of the DropZone site in 2008.

After the FBI asked for public assistance on the Cooper in early 2009, I got in touch with Sluggo (Wayne Walker) who told me about this site and I joined it in March 2009.

[Robert99 37]

33 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Robert, the Seattle redactions have been solved..

The FBI made it clear Nov 30, 1971.

It was edited to EXCLUDE all traffic of Northwest Airlines, except that pertaining to the hijacked Flight 305.

  

If you want to make an argument for the WFP the tape redactions are not a premise.

FlyJack, the above refers to the ARINC teletype transcripts.  It is the unredacted Seattle Air Traffic Control transcripts that are needed to determine the flight path.  ARINC and Seattle ATC are two entirely different things.

[georger 194]

25 minutes ago, Robert99 said:

For the benefit of people on DropZone who can read, which obviously doesn't include Georger, I had never heard of the DropZone site in 2008.

After the FBI asked for public assistance on the Cooper in early 2009, I got in touch with Sluggo (Wayne Walker) who told me about this site and I joined it in March 2009.

2008, 2009 ........ 3049!    Who cares? I just didnt look up the dates.  Your petty crap does not prove Cooper jumped or landed over or on Tena Bar!

It does not prove there is any direct connection between DB Cooper and money being found on Tena Bar. There is no evidence of DB Cooper on the Moon, either.

Whatever the date you came here, I dont recall that your original work even claimed a direct connection between the flight path and Tena Bar? Maybe I missed that. I dont know or care. It was Ulis who first made an issue of this, as far as I recall, but it does not matter in any event. 

For the record, I called and asked Wayne Walker if he believed your claims: he said "No". He let you publish on his website in any event because he thought it was the 'fair' thing to do, in order to promote open discussion. For the record, he did not believe Jo Weber's claims either ............   

I actually thought your work trying to get money to TBar via an inland water route was pretty interesting and had potential. Tom examined the Washougal option but found nothing to substantiate it. That left your inland water route as a viable option ... for a time.

Edited August 29, 2023 by georger

[FLYJACK 654]

11 minutes ago, Robert99 said:

FlyJack, the above refers to the ARINC teletype transcripts.  It is the unredacted Seattle Air Traffic Control transcripts that are needed to determine the flight path.  ARINC and Seattle ATC are two entirely different things.

Both had redactions, both use the term Pertaining to...   

[georger 194]

33 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Both had redactions, both use the term Pertaining to...   

 

My guess is nothing will alter 99's mission. He is his mission.