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DB Cooper

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'As far as the movie driving out the truth "one way or the other", why would that happen? Did that happen with the Zodiac movie? Nope. All that movie did was make a guy look more guilty, a guy who probably wasn't Zodiac. Movies don't have a way of driving out the truth on things. Instead, people watch a movie and assume that the movie is representing the truth because most people are either to lazy to research and find out the truth, or more likely just don't care. They watch the movie, they enjoy it or they don't, they move on...'

Why would the movie help drive out the truth one way or another? A very good question, but lets not compare apples to oranges either. Zodiac was a ruthless killer and hardly anyone lived to provide testimony against him. I mean...most of the people he confronted ended up dead. Not a huge witness pool with him or people who spent time with him for hours, or had conversations. Mostly it was BANG you're dead with him. :shock: In other words, the evidence is thin at best. 

The movie will help bring out the truth on KC one way or another all right. Main reason is because KC is what you call a 'known quantity'. He is not an 'unsub' as the FBI would say. He has a family history, and is known by quite a few people even today. In fact, as a result of the main YouTube video about him, a couple of former employees at NWA contacted me about him. Troy Bentz came forward as a result of the book. Denise, who is Bernie Geestman's niece, came forward as a result of the Decoded show, although it took some convincing to get her story. (I'm going to interview her a second time this spring for YouTube.) In fact, we found tons of info on Kenny and friends AFTER January 2011, much more than we knew prior to that date. (Book and TV show Decoded both came out more or less together at that time.)

The movie will reach many more people than either of those other media sources did. Information is bound to come out, and Agent John Jarvis...who works out of Quantico in Behavioral Profiling, a nearly 20-year veteran of the Bureau, has still not explained WHY he told three absolutely solid witnesses that the FBI really closed the case because they knew KC was Cooper, and that KC was dead. That, my friends....demands an explanation. If it were just Troy Bentz (person who came forward about this) saying this, I would tend to dismiss it. But we have three witnesses who were there and heard everything, all with security clearance jobs in the DC area with the US government. You'll excuse me if I would like to hear Agent Jarvis' motivations for saying such a thing. 

"Them's big words for a one-eyed fat man," as Robert Duvall once said to John Wayne. They sure are...and Cooperland deserves an answer. I cannot tell you whether Jarvis was just giving his opinion, or if he knew something we all don't. I cannot be sure he was stating what he KNEW to be true because of his connections inside the FBI, or just giving his opinion. Someone from the press should ask him about it in person. In that case, he has three choices. 

He can deny everything, and in that case I can present the statements from the witnesses beyond what I published in the WordPress article. 

He can say he wasn't serious, but that doesn't make the witnesses go away either. 

He can admit that what he said was true. Those are his only real choices. 

Look...I went with the movie guys' idea because they said they would more or less stick to the truth...at least better than those guys at CBS Films had planned. Movies are entertainment unless they are straight-up serious documentaries such as An Inconvenient Truth, for example, or the BBC's Planet Earth.  

In other news, I hear Minnow Films has edited down ten or twelve hours of Cooper-related footage to around 80 minutes. I don't expect much will come of that. A couple of weeks ago I got word from the exec producer that they were actually overwhelmed by the amount of material in the Cooper case, and hardly knew where to begin in editing. They would have been better off doing a three-part miniseries for the BBC instead. That's my opinion anyway. They bit off more than they could chew in an hour and a half, obviously. 

Well...snow in Seattle today. I have called off the cleaning biz for the next couple of days. I think I will go to the store and then install my new headlights on the truck. Did the LED bulbs into the instrument panel and the license plate/side marker lights yesterday. Looks snazzy, brighter, and more modern. Might as well do SOMETHING over the next day or two. Last week I installed a set of Hella 500FF's on the front bumper. Should help for off road trips. Maybe some day I will spot a shred of parachute down in the Gifford Pinchot National Forest. You never know. 

 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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I occasionally read this forum but not often because there is so much.  Recently a skydiver friend of mine passed away.  At his calling hours someone related the story that right after the hijacking, he was contacted by authorities, FBI I think.  His last name was Cooper, It wasn't him but he lived in a small town in central New York State.  Interesting that they contacted someone on the other side of the country.

 

 

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Robert, I quit after the second paragraph. Just too long and nothing there that you haven't said a hundred time already.

Look, the movie may be good. People may like it. But, I don't think it's going to lead to the truth on Kenny. Anyone that isn't delusional already knows the truth on Kenny.

Let's just disagree on that. 

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The "movie" will sure be exiting for those involved, I don't see it advancing the case in any way though.

Movies/TV shows are made for the general population and don't address the deeper complexities which most of us have wrestled with.

There is too much info in this case to do it justice..

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4 hours ago, Bigfalls said:

I occasionally read this forum but not often because there is so much.  Recently a skydiver friend of mine passed away.  At his calling hours someone related the story that right after the hijacking, he was contacted by authorities, FBI I think.  His last name was Cooper, It wasn't him but he lived in a small town in central New York State.  Interesting that they contacted someone on the other side of the country.

 

 

The FBI scoured the country for Cooper's, there was also one in Florida they looked at..

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(edited)
8 hours ago, ParrotheadVol said:

Robert, I quit after the second paragraph. Just too long and nothing there that you haven't said a hundred time already.

Look, the movie may be good. People may like it. But, I don't think it's going to lead to the truth on Kenny. Anyone that isn't delusional already knows the truth on Kenny.

Let's just disagree on that. 

We do NOT agree on that...and the evidence against Kenny is FAR from 'delusional' LOL. Any movie that names someone by their real name and says that person is most likely the perp on a mystery that's been going fifty years...truth WILL come out from different sources. 

How do I know this without having to take psychotropic meds? :D

Easy answer. Same thing happened when Decoded came out and we released the book on Kenny. We found out more after those things happened than we did BEFORE they happened. You can dismiss Kenny as a good suspect all you want. Doesn't mean others follow your lead. The only real objections I have ever heard about the evidence comes mostly from people at the Cooper forum. And they have built-in objections to almost ANY suspect...and an agenda....mainly because if someone were actually proven to be Cooper...that entire little closed, gated, edited, and filtered community would collapse. 

I am not EU, and neither am I Jo Weber. 

[On a side note, someone asked me at Quora if passengers had ever stopped a hijacking. Another person who answered said no. I said yes, and gave a few (hopefully) entertaining examples.]

 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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12 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

We do NOT agree on that...and the evidence against Kenny is FAR from 'delusional' LOL. Any movie that names someone by their real name and says that person is most likely the perp on a mystery that's been going fifty years...truth WILL come out from different sources. 

 

Read what I wrote - I said let's just DISAGREE on that.

Again, look at the Zodiac movie. They named Arthur Leigh Allen by his real name and implied that he was the perp. No truth came out. They only succeeded in making Allen look guilty, even though he probably wasn't Zodiac.

 

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14 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

We do NOT agree on that...and the evidence against Kenny is FAR from 'delusional' LOL. Any movie that names someone by their real name and says that person is most likely the perp on a mystery that's been going fifty years...truth WILL come out from different sources. 

How do I know this without having to take psychotropic meds? :D

Easy answer. Same thing happened when Decoded came out and we released the book on Kenny. We found out more after those things happened than we did BEFORE they happened. You can dismiss Kenny as a good suspect all you want. Doesn't mean others follow your lead. The only real objections I have ever heard about the evidence comes mostly from people at the Cooper forum. And they have built-in objections to almost ANY suspect...and an agenda....mainly because if someone were actually proven to be Cooper...that entire little closed, gated, edited, and filtered community would collapse. 

I am not EU, and neither am I Jo Weber. 

[On a side note, someone asked me at Quora if passengers had ever stopped a hijacking. Another person who answered said no. I said yes, and gave a few (hopefully) entertaining examples.]

 

Here is the truth-

Robert Rackstraw was DB Cooper

Walter Reca was DB Cooper

Barb Dayton was DB Cooper

etc, etc. etc.

The truth is what people want to believe or what they see in the media and don't take the time to basic research to confirm/deny.

"It's not a lie if you believe it"  George Costanza.

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(edited)

Interesting,,,, 

This is why I check old $20's against the Cooper list. It is a long shot but these old bills pop up.

 

I checked a bill number shown by the U.S. Bureau of Engraving and Printing as an example of termite damage... the bills were sent in to be replaced/redeemed.

The bill is piece of an old $20 and shows only part of the number in sequence 3433712  and has a 12 printed on it, making it an "L". The last letter is in a damaged area but appears to be a "C". It looks more like a "C" than a "B" but is incomplete.

I ran the number 3433712 and got the Cooper note L73433712B. Those Cooper notes were manually entered to create the FBI list.

The bill is L?3433712(C? I think) the Cooper bill is L73433712B. 

 

What are the odds of getting the bill letter plus 7 digits in correct sequence and position matching a Cooper $20?? one in a few million?

The irony is the bill was being shown by the Treasury Department.. (U.S. Bureau of Engraving and Printing)

 

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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14 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Interesting,,,, 

This is why I check old $20's against the Cooper list. It is a long shot but these old bills pop up.

 

I checked a bill number shown by the Treasury Department as an example of termite damage... the bills were sent in to be replaced/redeemed.

The bill is piece of an old $20 and shows only part of the number in sequence 3433712  and has a 12 printed on it, making it an "L". The last letter is in a damaged area but appears to be a "C". It looks more like a "C" than a "B" but is incomplete.

I ran the number 3433712 and got the Cooper note L73433712B. Those Cooper notes were manually entered to create the FBI list.

The bill is L?3433712(C? I think) the Cooper bill is L73433712B. 

 

What are the odds of getting the bill letter plus 7 sequential digits match on a Cooper $20?? one in a few million?

The irony is the bill was being shown by the Treasury Department..

 

 

Can you post a pic?

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Definitely very low odds.  If that C was a B, I'd want to dig a lot deeper.  Unlikely that someone would erase a B and make it a C, but it is possible.  Wonder what year that $20 is?  

I don't know what would have happened if the FBI had found one or even a a few of Cooper's $20's.  Look at the effect of the Tina Bar money and all the speculation.  If a few $20's had shown up in circulation, maybe they could track those back to a certain store/cashier, etc.  Money does move around fast though.  If the FBI had found $20's, it would add more weight to the theory that Cooper survived, but not make it 100% certain that he did.

Using probability distributions, I'm certain the FBI could have ruled in or out that a Cooper $20 was in circulation.  But the effort had to be put into it around 1971 to 1975 or so.

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18 minutes ago, CooperNWO305 said:

Definitely very low odds.  If that C was a B, I'd want to dig a lot deeper.  Unlikely that someone would erase a B and make it a C, but it is possible.  Wonder what year that $20 is?  

I don't know what would have happened if the FBI had found one or even a a few of Cooper's $20's.  Look at the effect of the Tina Bar money and all the speculation.  If a few $20's had shown up in circulation, maybe they could track those back to a certain store/cashier, etc.  Money does move around fast though.  If the FBI had found $20's, it would add more weight to the theory that Cooper survived, but not make it 100% certain that he did.

Using probability distributions, I'm certain the FBI could have ruled in or out that a Cooper $20 was in circulation.  But the effort had to be put into it around 1971 to 1975 or so.

We get quoted the average $20 bill lasts xx years...

But Cooper bills aren't average.

If Cooper survived with some of the money...

He could have passed them into circulation and it would be very hard to find one still floating around..

However, if he stashed some away somewhere which is more likely for marked ransom money then somebody may find some and either try to exchange or sell on EBAY.

Edited by FLYJACK

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(edited)
1 hour ago, CooperNWO305 said:

Definitely very low odds.  If that C was a B, I'd want to dig a lot deeper.  Unlikely that someone would erase a B and make it a C, but it is possible.  Wonder what year that $20 is?  

I don't know what would have happened if the FBI had found one or even a a few of Cooper's $20's.  Look at the effect of the Tina Bar money and all the speculation.  If a few $20's had shown up in circulation, maybe they could track those back to a certain store/cashier, etc.  Money does move around fast though.  If the FBI had found $20's, it would add more weight to the theory that Cooper survived, but not make it 100% certain that he did.

Using probability distributions, I'm certain the FBI could have ruled in or out that a Cooper $20 was in circulation.  But the effort had to be put into it around 1971 to 1975 or so.

I am not a big fan of the altering bills idea, it just seems like too much work.

but, I checked and it is easy to effectively erase a bill number/letter on older bills with an electric eraser... which were common in drafting back in the 70's.

So, why change a B to a C... wouldn't it be easier to make a 3 an 8??

 

Well, the were no Cooper bills that ended in a C except for a few 1950C bills. No 1969, 1963A, 1963, 1934, 1950, 1950A or 1950B bills ended in a C.

Changing the last letter from an A or B to a C would be a good strategy for all bills (except the few 1950C notes with a C). People checking would check the year first and not get past the last letter..  

but I am still skeptical about altering all those bills.

 

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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(edited)
36 minutes ago, CooperNWO305 said:

The first letter of the serial number matches the Federal Reserve letter on the left side of the bill, so changing that would not be the number one choice.  I considered that he may have wanted to change the last letter, but like you said there were very few that ended in C.  

yes, the last letter, there are also 4 additional numbers printed on the bill that match the first letter, Federal Reserve Bank issuer, for example L = 12 = San Francisco.

If Cooper were to alter the bills, it would be a very good and efficient strategy to just erase and change the last letter to a C.. (there are only about 14 - 1950C bills that end in C)

Edited by FLYJACK

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ParrotheadVol says in part:

Quote

"Again, look at the Zodiac movie. They named Arthur Leigh Allen by his real name and implied that he was the perp. No truth came out. They only succeeded in making Allen look guilty, even though he probably wasn't Zodiac..."

You are comparing apples to oranges. I understand that a movie about an unsolved case is basically a form of entertainment. But calling the current released (and unreleased) evidence against KC 'delusional' is delusional in itself.

There is actually more information and witnesses regarding KC than any other suspect, with the possible exception of Richard Floyd McCoy. It has come to a point where people are starting to wonder if we might be right. I am not saying that we are, but there have been many developments ever since 2011 when that History Channel show, Geoff Gray's book, and our book hit the streets. People did start coming forward. Some of this is publicly-available stuff. Some is not...for the moment. 

Try to look at this whole KC situation as we see it here at AB of Seattle. We understand the idea of trying to disprove any evidence, or show it has no validity. And as long as these efforts are fair, and legitimate, no one here has any problem with that. 

But there IS a problem with many of the folks who hang at the DB Cooper Forum, and the problem is THIS:  They make nasty personal comments and practice exclusion to protect themselves. They use phony identities to post up under known names involved in Cooperland. And then...posing as everyone from FBI agent Larry Carr, or Skipp Porteous, or even yours truly...say the most filthy things imaginable. Over at Bruce Smith's Mountain News, he allows this kind of stuff to a great extent with 'Johnnie Greene' (probably Georger we think) and many others. All of them phony. 

As a result, it is difficult for the media to take you guys seriously anymore. When these things happen...sooner or later I get inquiries about them. And I tell anyone who makes an inquiry about this behavior the truth about Cooperland. It can be an ugly place and people sometimes have agendas going. Frankly, one reason I approved the script for the movie is to be done and finished with Cooperland. No one, it seems, can work together for the common good. The convention last year was based on lies perpetrated by EU. The year prior, he was accused of stalking one of the women who attended THAT convention. EU said it was his ex wife causing trouble. We found out that was not true. Blah, blah, blah....you know what I mean? 

People generally have not gone to the lengths they do with Cooper...just becoming ridiculous...in other unsolved cases. You don't see it so much. Seems to be confined to Cooper for some reason I have never figured out. Cooperland is now so fractured, so disjointed, so partitioned...it has actually hurt any chances of making progress on the case. 

Some people have this pre-conceived notion that anything and everything...if it is about Cooper...and sponsored by Adventure Books of Seattle is automatically a bad thing, or you should not support it. Well...what were the results of all that? Two good examples:  The Ariel Store is still a wreck and will probably never reopen, and instead of a few people at the Kiggins Theater listening to EU and Captain Scott's daughter...you could have attended an SRO event with one or two really famous people to share the stage with...and over a thousand bucks in Cooper Lookalike prizes. EU deliberately lied to people to ensure this would never happen. And then it comes out later that the reason he did was because he and a couple of business owners in Vancouver had another event in the works. I don't have a problem with that. What I had a problem with was EU accepting the hosting job under false pretenses. I will no longer sponsor, or assist in any way...any Cooper event that isn't run by AB of Seattle or people we know and trust. And that means we stick to the Cooper campouts ONLY. One coming in April if the weather allows, another in mid summer. And that will be it for us. 

I don't see where we are so 'bad' one way or another. About the worst thing I ever did was to contact the Portland Yacht Club in 2018 and ask them to tell the organizers of that event to not allow speakers to call KC a child rapist. Because he was NOT, no matter what BS you may have heard elsewhere. I had no idea they would simply cancel the whole thing, but it tells you maybe other people out there don't go for the fighting in Cooperland either. 

It is counterproductive. People sometimes get left out. For what? For nothing. The best example lately is Bruce Smith, who foolishly turned down $15,000 just to fact check maybe thirty pages of a movie script, something he could have done in an hour perhaps. I have said that Cooperland shoots itself in the foot so much, that it's a miracle they aren't riding around in wheelchairs. 

Are there any answers to this? Sure. Stop backstabbing, practicing exclusion, avoid the trash talk, and show some respect for others involved in the Cooper case. Will that ever happen? Doubtful at best. 

 

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I have a question about how the FBI handles evidence. For instance, the Amboy chute was supposedly discounted as being Cooper's, yet the FBI still holds on to it. It took Hayden some wrangling to get his other chute back, but Flyjack shows evidence that that was not the one left on the plane, and if so I'm guessing the FBI still has that one (did Cossey ever get the cut-up reserve back?).

So how is it that anyone has Cooper 20's? How did any of the Tina Bar money end up back in the public's hands?

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(edited)
33 minutes ago, dudeman17 said:

I have a question about how the FBI handles evidence. For instance, the Amboy chute was supposedly discounted as being Cooper's, yet the FBI still holds on to it. It took Hayden some wrangling to get his other chute back, but Flyjack shows evidence that that was not the one left on the plane, and if so I'm guessing the FBI still has that one (did Cossey ever get the cut-up reserve back?).

So how is it that anyone has Cooper 20's? How did any of the Tina Bar money end up back in the public's hands?

Cossey claimed he got back one of the back chutes,,  

Did he actually get one back??  If so, was it a back chute?

 

I thought the two front chutes were technically Issaquah Skysports chutes..

 

Maybe,,, If both Hayden and Cossey sent in 2 back chutes each and one from each was sent to the plane, then each could have got back the one (back chute) they sent in that didn't go to the plane. 

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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35 minutes ago, dudeman17 said:

I have a question about how the FBI handles evidence. For instance, the Amboy chute was supposedly discounted as being Cooper's, yet the FBI still holds on to it. It took Hayden some wrangling to get his other chute back, but Flyjack shows evidence that that was not the one left on the plane, and if so I'm guessing the FBI still has that one (did Cossey ever get the cut-up reserve back?).

So how is it that anyone has Cooper 20's? How did any of the Tina Bar money end up back in the public's hands?

amboywithcaption.jpg.703c3732e5cc4ebd8fead2352900ba2c.jpg

1) I think the FBI's explanation on the Amboy chute is a whitewash, and was poorly done anyway. The chute was only shown to one outside person, despite the FBI's claim they 'contacted experts.' (by phone only, though) Every media article afterward that spoke of the chute's dismissal by the FBI also gave Cossey as the source on the evidence used IN that dismissal:  That the chute was made of silk, Cossey said, and the ones he gave Cooper were ripstop nylon. That is not true. The chute was NOT made of silk. One thing about this chute that should be remembered. If the FBI had admitted that the chute COULD be Cooper's...they would also have to admit he probably lived, got away with it, etc. For years after the Tina Bar money find they claimed the money showed he was probably dead. They would have to retract all that. It takes a human being to disconnect the harness from a chute and bury the canopy. It did not get buried by accident, and you have to ask yourself why someone would bother with all that work in the first place. 

2) Hayden got his chute back after his patience wore thin. I interviewed him twice by phone. He says the John Detlor report is accurate, and that he didn't loan those chutes, he was paid a rental fee by NWA. I believe him. He paid a lawyer to send a letter to the FBI, asking for the return of his chute. Two FBI agents met up with him and gave him the chute. Hayden says they were rather curt about the whole thing. Chute is now at the Washington State History Museum, but it is tucked back in a corner and not that many people see it. (picture below)

cooperchutetacoma.jpg.d5fe8070536de9abc565a7c7881e7f52.jpg

3) No, Cossey did not get the pink chute returned. (cut up chute) It is held as evidence by the FBI today. 

4) Some of the Tina Bar bills were finally returned to the finder....Brian Ingram. He put them up for auction after he received them and made quite a bit of money. I don't know how much, but I think it was a hefty five figures. 

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(edited)

Here we go...

Concluding that Cooper could not be 5' 8" is not based on facts but on layers of subjective assumptions/estimates.

 

Al Lee described Tina as 5' 6".. (did she have her shoes on or not??)

alleetina5ft6.jpeg.1cbcc19f12ea63aa4c3c8ca7614babe7.jpeg

 

 

Tina Mucklow is noted as being "approximately 5' 8" (by FBI agent, is that in shoes or not?), "she observed the hijacker in a seated position except for the brief period when he went to the lavatory"...

tinacoopseatedmost.jpeg.389082008a7c623a99d0cc9f28db4027.jpeg 

Edited by FLYJACK

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(edited)

Seen recently elsewhere, concerning Dropzone:

Quote

"I mean we had to deal with Blevins and Jo for years and they brought DZ down. Then Colbert came along - more years wasted. Now its FLYACK and Blevins at DZ, and R99 and ELVIS and KAYE here!

When does a normal unaffiliated person get a break?  I guess the answer is: never

The whole Cooper forum process seems stuck: inevitably. foreverly!"

This is what you get in Cooperland. More than a little bit, too. 

DZ ain't stuck. He's stuck. 

DZ Cooper remains the most heavily visited thread about the case on Planet Earth. Quora Cooper is either a close second, or actually surpasses it. I can't tell for sure because all the people who get the feed don't have their views counted unless they actually read them at Quora, rather than in their email or on their smartphones. Most of them just pick up new posts by one of those methods. 

They keep mentioning me as if I am a member 'over there'.

I'm not. I wouldn't waste my time posting up at a place where 99.9999% of the public aren't allowed to view links or pictures anyway. Sometimes I think the tune below should be my theme song when it comes to people who say stuff like I quoted back there....with them knowing that you can't respond to their (virtual) faces. LOL.

 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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3 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Some of the Tina Bar bills were finally returned to the finder....Brian Ingram. He put them up for auction after he received them and made quite a bit of money. I don't know how much, but I think it was a hefty five figures. 

My question was about the money. I mentioned the chutes as example of how the FBI keeps everything it considers to be evidence. It seemed odd that they would give back the money.

Normally when someone finds a bunch of cash and turns it in to the authorities, if they can't find the rightful owner they give it back to the finder. But this wasn't an ordinary cash find, it was evidence in the case.

You say they gave some of it back, but not all? How much did they give back vs what they kept?

I dunno, maybe they figured they'd give him back enough to sell and get the value of his find, as opposed to give him money out of their budget.

??

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(edited)

'377' bought one of the bills. He brings for display to all the Cooper conventions. He got one of the more pristine bills, it is pretty much a complete bill. When I spoke with he and his lovely wife at the 2012 Ariel party, he said he wished that bill could talk. I'll bet. 

I forget what he said he paid for it exactly, but it was a few thousand dollars. Mark M (377) continues to be the person I have the most respect for at the Cooper Forum. If everyone in Cooperland were like him, extensive progress both on the case itself...and activities in the real world related to Cooper...would have progressed beyond anyone's wildest dreams by now. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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