DB Cooper

[Nicholas Broughton 53]

7 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

No, they did some early in '73 then decided no more..

 

Oh gotcha, I thought you said they had a new search zone that they didn't search.

[FLYJACK 654]

16 minutes ago, Nicholas Broughton said:

Oh gotcha, I thought you said they had a new search zone that they didn't search.

The new search was a very small area, not comprehensive enough. 

[FLYJACK 654]

Looks like Chaucer has been looking at the wind as well..

The argument he just posted on thecooperforum is the same one I have been making for years,,, completely ignored by the illuminati.

points..

Tom Kaye's weather data is far from the LZ and the wrong time/date.. there is no data close at 8PM on the 24th.  It does show wind direction was consistent throughout elevations. 

Weather Underground data for the 24th shows nearby winds shifting from the S-SE.. 

The data used for the LZ was an estimate of an average over an hour from Salem and Portland.. not very reliable for the LZ..  Portland is on an E/W River which affects winds differently. Winds tend to blow up or down a River not across. Salem is too far away and Portland is a unique location.

But, I found something new, a simple error, Chaucer claims he has more info but reading his post I don't think it is the same thing I found though we appear to have the same conclusion..

Essentially, the wind data was wrong and the best/closest data we have is that it was from the S-SE around 8PM on the 24th in the zone.

 

That puts the plane into a headwind and Cooper's potential drift under and slightly West of the flightpath (not East) depending on the heading at a given location, virtually no ground search on the West side..  they did do door to door canvassing.

I am still examining this but it appears that if Cooper pulled he landed within a few miles on the West side of the flightpath. 

 

Legal disclaimers and fine print..

I believe the common flightpath map is accurate to 1 mile, later map revised to 0.5 mile.. that Cooper jumped between about the Lewis R to roughly just south of Battleground (Brush Prairie). The time stamps are accurate to within a minute.

Rataczak was hand flying the plane, he said so. The FBI files are wrong on the autopilot.

Rataczak said he felt Cooper on the stairs. Experts claim that wouldn't happen on autopilot.

Rataczak called Soderlind in the suburbs of Portland which was many minutes after the "jump".

Soderlind was listening and taking notes.

Rataczak believes Cooper jumped nearer to the Lewis R.

Rataczak was asked about Cooper jumping near Portland,, he said he was gone by then.

The rapid increase in oscillations were visual on the gauge, the bump was an extreme oscillation. Needle begins oscillating rapidly and hits an extreme that is felt as a bump. This happened within seconds not minutes.

No animals were harmed by this post.

I am not responsible for any persons real or imagined that may get offended by this post.

 

Edited July 7, 2023 by FLYJACK

[georger 197]

2 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Looks like Chaucer has been looking at the wind as well..

The argument he just posted on thecooperforum is the same one I have been making for years,,, completely ignored by the illuminati.

points..

Tom Kaye's weather data is far from the LZ and the wrong time/date.. there is no data close at 8PM on the 24th.  It does show wind direction was consistent throughout elevations. 

Weather Underground data for the 24th shows nearby winds shifting from the S-SE.. 

The data used for the LZ was an estimate of an average over an hour from Salem and Portland.. not very reliable for the LZ..  Portland is on an E/W River which affects winds differently. Winds tend to blow up or down a River not across. Salem is too far away and Portland is a unique location.

But, I found something new, a simple error, Chaucer claims he has more info but reading his post I don't think it is the same thing I found though we appear to have the same conclusion..

Essentially, the wind data was wrong and the best/closest data we have is that it was from the S-SE around 8PM on the 24th in the zone.

 

That puts the plane into a headwind and Cooper's potential drift under and slightly West of the flightpath (not East) depending on the heading at a given location, virtually no ground search on the West side..  they did do door to door canvassing.

I am still examining this but it appears that if Cooper pulled he landed within a few miles on the West side of the flightpath. 

 

Legal disclaimers and fine print..

I believe the common flightpath map is accurate to 1 mile, later map revised to 0.5 mile.. that Cooper jumped between about the Lewis R to roughly just south of Battleground (Brush Prairie). The time stamps are accurate to within a minute.

Rataczak was hand flying the plane, he said so. The FBI files are wrong on the autopilot.

Rataczak said he felt Cooper on the stairs. Experts claim that wouldn't happen on autopilot.

Rataczak called Soderlind in the suburbs of Portland which was many minutes after the "jump".

Soderlind was listening and taking notes.

Rataczak believes Cooper jumped nearer to the Lewis R.

Rataczak was asked about Cooper jumping near Portland,, he said he was gone by then.

The rapid increase in oscillations were visual on the gauge, the bump was an extreme oscillation. Needle begins oscillating rapidly and hits an extreme that is felt as a bump. This happened within seconds not minutes.

No animals were harmed by this post.

I am not responsible for any persons real or imagined that may get offended by this post.

 

So, in other words, (like Chaucer and R99), you are saying Soderlind had his head up his ass and didnt know what he was doing ? But you do .... ?

Edited July 7, 2023 by georger

[FLYJACK 654]

24 minutes ago, georger said:

So, in other words, (like Chaucer and R99), you are saying Soderlind had his head up his ass and didnt know what he was doing ? But you do .... ?

Of course you didn't read all my posts...

 

To repeat.

I found a simple error, it wasn't by Soderlind or the FBI.. they got bad data.

The error is irrefutable.. it is not my opinion, speculation or conjecture, it is a fact.

[FLYJACK 654]

Looks like Chaucer is just making the same argument I have made for years,, that the wind was shifting closest to the DZ/time.. and the wind data for the LZ time/place was unreliable.

but that isn't new. What I have is new and everyone missed it for over 50 years...

Not unprecedented, they missed the packing card for Cooper's back chute as well.

 

[Robert99 37]

12 hours ago, georger said:

So, in other words, (like Chaucer and R99), you are saying Soderlind had his head up his ass and didnt know what he was doing ? But you do .... ?

Georger, as you well know or at least should know unless you have got your head up your own ass, I have never said any such thing about Soderlind.

But just exactly what did Soderling say?  If I remember correctly, Dr. Edwards has pointed out that the FBI has never released Soderlind's information.

[FLYJACK 654]

R99,

You constantly refer to the wind data from Tom Kaye as evidence but it doesn't indicate what you think it does..

It was measured nowhere near the LZ and at the wrong times.. the only thing it tells us is that generally wind direction was consistent throughout altitudes.

There is no useful data for wind direction anywhere close to the time and place of Cooper's probable jump in those files.

If you can find specific relevant data in those files then post it.

 

[Robert99 37]

2 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

R99,

You constantly refer to the wind data from Tom Kaye as evidence but it doesn't indicate what you think it does..

It was measured nowhere near the LZ and at the wrong times.. the only thing it tells us is that generally wind direction was consistent throughout altitudes.

There is no useful data for wind direction anywhere close to the time and place of Cooper's probable jump in those files.

If you can find specific relevant data in those files then post it.

 

Flyjack, it has already been posted and discussed on Shutter's site.  I suggest you check there.

[FLYJACK 654]

2 hours ago, Robert99 said:

Flyjack, it has already been posted and discussed on Shutter's site.  I suggest you check there.

I have the files and I am not the one that needs to read them, you keep making false claims about the data.

It doesn't tell us the wind at the time and place of the "jump" not even close.

[Robert99 37]

5 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

I have the files and I am not the one that needs to read them, you keep making false claims about the data.

It doesn't tell us the wind at the time and place of the "jump" not even close.

Flyjack, in case you didn't get the memo, the time and place of Cooper's jump is not known with certainty.

[CooperNWO305 146]

On 7/6/2023 at 12:40 PM, FLYJACK said:

Years ago, I suggested that the wind direction was possibly wrong but no proof. The FBI discussed this possibility in 1973 and established and planned new small area for a ground search, that area was never searched.

The new error I discovered confirms 100% that the wind direction used in the LZ analysis was wrong.

 

This is my revised LZ..

The most likely LZ is the top red triangle.

Then the probability diminishes as you move south in the quadrants.

 

 

Fly. Are you thinking he landed near Ariel? Good analysis. I have to look at it some more to grasp it all. 

[FLYJACK 654]

9 hours ago, Robert99 said:

Flyjack, in case you didn't get the memo, the time and place of Cooper's jump is not known with certainty.

You are dodging...  

The closest was Salem, 70 miles away at 5PM.. wind was SSW,, how is that representative of the area Cooper likely jumped at about 8:12.

It isn't.

 

Edited July 8, 2023 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 654]

3 hours ago, CooperNWO305 said:

Fly. Are you thinking he landed near Ariel? Good analysis. I have to look at it some more to grasp it all. 

I am just applying Soderlind's analysis with the wind corrected to be S-SE...

That means if Cooper pulled he would have landed under or slightly West of the flightpath depending on the variation in the heading of the plane at the time of the jump, not East. Very little of that area had a ground search.

I still believe he jumped between roughly the Lewis and about Brush Prairie..  

 

Edited July 8, 2023 by FLYJACK

[georger 197]

4 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

I am just applying Soderlind's analysis with the wind corrected to be S-SE...

That means if Cooper pulled he would have landed under or slightly West of the flightpath depending on the variation in the heading of the plane at the time of the jump, not East. Very little of that area had a ground search.

I still believe he jumped between roughly the Lewis and about Brush Prairie..  

 

OG documents:

1954%20La%20Center%20Quadrangle%20Area%20of%20interest ZZ B.bmp

[georger 197]

3 minutes ago, georger said:

OG documents:

1954%20La%20Center%20Quadrangle%20Area%20of%20interest ZZ B.bmp 5.13 MB · 0 downloads

 

1954%20La%20Center%20Quadrangle%20Area%20of%20interest ZZ B.bmp

[FLYJACK 654]

40 minutes ago, georger said:

 

1954%20La%20Center%20Quadrangle%20Area%20of%20interest ZZ B.bmp 5.13 MB · 0 downloads

Yes, they used an estimated SW wind direction drift, to the NE, I used a S-SE wind with a N-NW drift.. 

based on an error I found.. 

Edited July 8, 2023 by FLYJACK

[Chaucer 103]

So, if there was an error, what is your reluctance in sharing it? 

[FLYJACK 654]

6 hours ago, Chaucer said:

So, if there was an error, what is your reluctance in sharing it? 

It should be saved for CooperCon..

I have told a couple people privately, I just don't think it should be made public yet. It is a big deal.

Your argument about the wind is correct, I have been making the same one for years. The error I found recently takes it over the top... 

 

[Nicholas Broughton 53]

12 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

It should be saved for CooperCon..

I have told a couple people privately, I just don't think it should be made public yet. It is a big deal.

Your argument about the wind is correct, I have been making the same one for years. The error I found recently takes it over the top... 

 

Well why don’t you come to CooperCon and deliver the information personally. EU has an open invitation out to you.

Edited July 10, 2023 by Nicholas Broughton

[FLYJACK 654]

44 minutes ago, Nicholas Broughton said:

Well why don’t you come to CooperCon and deliver the information personally. EU has an open invitation out to you.

I have been asked not to talk publicly or disclose my research that is not public...   so there are limitations on what I can say, it makes things difficult.

but if somebody else wants to they can bring it up..

IMO, it is a big deal and should be,

 

[Robert99 37]

15 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

I have been asked not to talk publicly or disclose my research that is not public...   so there are limitations on what I can say, it makes things difficult.

but if somebody else wants to they can bring it up..

IMO, it is a big deal and should be,

 

FlyJack, your claim to having information that is somewhere beyond top secret and cannot be released to mere mortals is nothing but a cop out.

EU and others, and that includes me, have posted their work and publicly stood by it for better or worse.  Just take EU up on his invitation and prove everyone else wrong.

In the meantime, put up or shut up.

[FLYJACK 654]

48 minutes ago, Robert99 said:

FlyJack, your claim to having information that is somewhere beyond top secret and cannot be released to mere mortals is nothing but a cop out.

EU and others, and that includes me, have posted their work and publicly stood by it for better or worse.  Just take EU up on his invitation and prove everyone else wrong.

In the meantime, put up or shut up.

R99, the disrespect you show in this screed is why I stopped posting all my research.. for a long time I posted everything I found but still disrespected. And now, I have also been asked not to discuss the case publicly..

I have shared the wind error with a few people privately and IMO it should be presented at CooperCon. 

Chaucer and I have repeatedly asked you for the wind data you claim proves the wind characteristics along in the jump zone, you have refused, belittled and obfuscated.. We aren't asking you because we don't have the data, we are asking you because we do have it and it doesn't prove what you keep claiming.

So, your disrespectful post (and posts by a few others) doesn't encourage me to share more of my undisclosed research and I have lots... it reinforces my decision to share less.

Edited July 10, 2023 by FLYJACK

[Robert99 37]

45 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

R99, the disrespect you show in this screed is why I stopped posting all my research.. for a long time I posted everything I found but still disrespected. And now, I have also been asked not to discuss the case publicly..

I have shared the wind error with a few people privately and IMO it should be presented at CooperCon. 

Chaucer and I have repeatedly asked you for the wind data you claim proves the wind characteristics along in the jump zone, you have refused, belittled and obfuscated.. We aren't asking you because we don't have the data, we are asking you because we do have it and it doesn't prove what you keep claiming.

So, your disrespectful post (and posts by a few others) doesn't encourage me to share more of my undisclosed research and I have lots... it reinforces my decision to share less.

FlyJack, the only wind data available for the evening of the hijacking is that produced by the National Weather Service and that includes such things as the NOAA balloon data, the FAA hourly sequence reports for the various airports that have a Flight Service Station, or its equivalent for the weather data, on site.

Tom Kaye has obtained and posted all of the above information that is relevant to the hijacking.  All predictions of the future weather must be based on that data since there is no other data.  

You and Chaucer seem to feel that you have other sources for weather data.  Just exactly what are those sources?  The political term "alternate data" won't work here.

Why do you and Chaucer refuse to get a copy of the FAA's publication "Aviation Weather" and study it?  Knowledge is power.

Edited July 10, 2023 by Robert99

[FLYJACK 654]

1 hour ago, Robert99 said:

FlyJack, the only wind data available for the evening of the hijacking is that produced by the National Weather Service and that includes such things as the NOAA balloon data, the FAA hourly sequence reports for the various airports that have a Flight Service Station, or its equivalent for the weather data, on site.

Tom Kaye has obtained and posted all of the above information that is relevant to the hijacking.  All predictions of the future weather must be based on that data since there is no other data.  

You and Chaucer seem to feel that you have other sources for weather data.  Just exactly what are those sources?  The political term "alternate data" won't work here.

Why do you and Chaucer refuse to get a copy of the FAA's publication "Aviation Weather" and study it?  Knowledge is power.

We have the data.. it does not actually say what you claim..

The closest weather balloon's went up at Quillayute, 100 miles West of Seattle and about 170 miles from Cooper's jump, so irrelevant.

And, at Salem Or... at 5PM, about 70 miles from Cooper's jump, that data showed wind about 212 deg varying slightly with elevation. But, it isn't close in place and time to the jump zone... not very useful.

The winds aloft data posted in the FBI files for Portland and Salem were a forecast estimated from the balloon data at Salem at 5PM.. they used an average as a proxy for the wind Cooper encountered.. but there was an error.

 

The winds aloft data from the balloon's tells us a few general things,, 

The wind direction at surface was close to direction throughout elevation.

The wind at Salem at 5PM was more Southerly than believed.

The wind naturally increases speed at elevation over surface but the winds were much higher at elevation than the FBI used..

 

It also showed 50 knots at 10,000 feet for Salem at 5PM.

It shows 66 knots at 13500 ft..  

So, the other pilot claiming 60 knots headwind at 13000 ft on the night of the hijacking may have been correct. He also said the wind was shifting between approximately 160 and 200 degrees. That actually fits the data we have.

The best info we have is that the wind was shifting that evening between S-SE and SSW... Seattle was S, Toledo ground was S-SE..

I can only say that the wind was NOT conclusive in the LZ and the FBI ruled out a S-SE wind direction.

We do NOT have actual data for Cooper's jump time and place.. the FBI estimated a W-SW wind.

 

I have made this same argument for years but recently found an error that makes it bullet proof.

 

I feel I am wasting my time again with this post, you will just never accept the facts and make claims about the wind data that don't exist.

BTW, when everyone finds out the error, you won't believe it.. the fact that nobody caught it undermines the credibility of the entire investigation.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 10, 2023 by FLYJACK