DB Cooper

[Robert99 37]

10 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

It's different. I was contacted by the producers for a phone interview a while back. I feel like they're going to be focusing on a bunch of different suspects in the episode. 

Okay, but in reality there are no believable Cooper suspects walking the streets.  Just remember that the FBI has eliminated more than 900 individuals, including some who claimed to be Cooper.

And also remember that the FBI did not have access to some data bases which probably would have been extremely useful in their investigation.

[georger 194]

1 hour ago, olemisscub said:

It's different. I was contacted by the producers for a phone interview a while back. I feel like they're going to be focusing on a bunch of different suspects in the episode. 

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... how do you examine new suspects without any EVIDENCE! ? 

The media pandering never stops. George Santos was DB Cooper!

Program dead on arrival. 

Edited May 10, 2023 by georger

[olemisscub 461]

1 hour ago, georger said:

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... how do you examine new suspects without any EVIDENCE! ? 

The media pandering never stops. George Santos was DB Cooper!

Program dead on arrival. 

Just wait til you hear who some of the suspects they covered were… I’ll say no more. Regardless, the Vortex was well represented by some good members of the DZ. 

[Coopericane 44]

1 hour ago, olemisscub said:

Just wait til you hear who some of the suspects they covered were… I’ll say no more. Regardless, the Vortex was well represented by some good members of the DZ. 

Hopefully Vordahl? Whether or not one thinks he was Cooper, I would say he's a strong enough suspect to at least be worth some extra scrutiny... it's too bad the media has largely passed him over so far.

Edited May 10, 2023 by Coopericane

[olemisscub 461]

24 minutes ago, Coopericane said:

Hopefully Vordahl? Whether or not one thinks he was Cooper, I would say he's a strong enough suspect to at least be worth some extra scrutiny... it's too bad the media has largely passed him over so far.

Vordahl is definitely not on there. As one of the guys who brought Vordahl to the attention of Vortex, I can say that me and the other guys who investigated him don't want any "actual" media attention on him anyways. Vordahl's family was cool with us presenting him to the Vortex but didn't want anything further than that. 

[Coopericane 44]

23 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

Vordahl is definitely not on there. As one of the guys who brought Vordahl to the attention of Vortex, I can say that me and the other guys who investigated him don't want any "actual" media attention on him anyways. Vordahl's family was cool with us presenting him to the Vortex but didn't want anything further than that. 

Oh. That makes sense. I just thought there would be more movement on discussing and examining him if he was more broadly known about. Maybe we could have even gotten acknowledgment from the FBI like with WSJ. But respecting the family's wishes is important and understandable.

[georger 194]

On 5/10/2023 at 5:00 PM, Coopericane said:

Oh. That makes sense. I just thought there would be more movement on discussing and examining him if he was more broadly known about. Maybe we could have even gotten acknowledgment from the FBI like with WSJ. But respecting the family's wishes is important and understandable.

which begs the question: what boxes trigger a viable Cooper search, given that so many people think they know who and what Cooper was!? Who's Cooper list is the right list given that there is no universal list people even agree on! Notably, finger prints and dna are missing! Even an image of the guy is missing/uncertain !! What are the correct defining features?   

[c99acer 6]

21 hours ago, georger said:

which begs the question: what boxes trigger a viable Cooper search, given that so many people think they know who and what Cooper was!? Who's Cooper list is the right list given that there is no universal list people even agree on! Notably, finger prints and dna are missing! Even an image of the guy is missing/uncertain !! What are the correct defining features?   

I agree, we do not know what check boxes are correct. So what else can pair candidates with the high-jacker? Mannerisms of Cooper during the event? Attitudes and behaviors of the crew and main players as events unfold? I see changes in the behavior and narrative within the first 48 hours; also the 1980 Tena Bar money find.

Edited May 13, 2023 by c99acer
added second behavior to tie my points.

[georger 194]

On 5/13/2023 at 9:41 AM, c99acer said:

I agree, we do not know what check boxes are correct. So what else can pair candidates with the high-jacker? Mannerisms of Cooper during the event? Attitudes and behaviors of the crew and main players as events unfold? I see changes in the behavior and narrative within the first 48 hours; also the 1980 Tena Bar money find.

All of that is subjective - Im talking about physical evidence. Like the money find at Tena Bar. There are only a few options for that happening given the flight path and the drop zone.

[CooperNWO305 146]

I've been out of the loop for a bit and probably will continue to be for a bit.  I may not get to see the History's Mysteries tomorrow night, and was hoping someone can post on here how the part on William Smith goes, if there is a part on him.  I'm mainly interested in what they use for pictures of him, like the main one that is the most common of him, or if they got more pics etc.  Any other feedback on the show would be interesting too.  I won't take it personally, it was an odd kind of wat so to say in terms of the show being filmed.  I doubt I'll be able to see any PMs for a bit either.  Thanks.

Also, I saw a YouTube video from Anthony Mills that mentions Gunther's book was sourced from a guy named Robert Rackley.  As far as I can remember, I don't know who that is and have not heard his name.  Any info on that would be of interest to me. I did talk to a former radio DJ once who knew Gunther, but don't remember that being his name.  As far as I know, no one knows where Gunther got his info.

I hope to be back on all the boards in a few weeks.  I will be able to see this board though it looks like.  Easier than getting it second hand from contacts who don't really know the Cooper background.  Lots to catch up on. Hope everyone is well.

[Coopericane 44]

I assume this is the video? I have not watched it yet personally, but will soon.

And there's an interesting comment... apparently some Cooper researchers actually got a hold of Gunther's notes, and are going to eventually publish information about them?!? I'll take that with a grain of salt for now, to be cautious... but that could be VERY interesting if it turns out to be true...

Edited May 15, 2023 by Coopericane

[Coopericane 44]

So in the video, he says he used the Google AI Bard to evaluate the Gunther book and it somehow came up with a person called "Robert Rackley" as Cooper's accomplice... obviously, we know this is not actually in the book. IMO, it's just the AI screwing up and accidentally inventing a character who wasn't there. I don't think Google's Bard is quite on the level of other AIs like ChatGPT, and even that can still occasionally fail with basic facts. I don't think there is more to "Robert Rackley" than that. His name was probably cannibalized from Robert Rackstraw by the AI during its thought process.

Edited May 15, 2023 by Coopericane

[olemisscub 461]

22 minutes ago, Coopericane said:

His name was probably cannibalized from Robert Rackstraw by the AI during its thought process.

This is precisely what occurred, in my opinion. As soon as I saw that video a few days I figured it was some sort of AI brain fart about Robert Rackstraw.

[olemisscub 461]

1 hour ago, Coopericane said:

And there's an interesting comment... apparently some Cooper researchers actually got a hold of Gunther's notes, and are going to eventually publish information about them?!? I'll take that with a grain of salt for now, to be cautious... but that could be VERY interesting if it turns out to be true...

That’s probably someone distorting the fact that a few of us actually found the original “Clara” letter sent to Himmelsbach back in the 80’s when we went to Himmelsbach’s grandson’s house during CooperCon. 

[SeventyWonderful 18]

I found this on Ebay today.  It's the Italian version of the Dan Cooper comic published in November 1970.  I dig the art.

There are several available on Ebay.  Do a search for "Dan Cooper Albi Ardimento 1970" and they'll show up.

[georger 194]

The new History channel program at 8:00 cdt with Darren et al was interesting, thought provoking, and very well done, by all involved. This program brings everyone up to date with the newest generation of researchers working on the DB Cooper case. I thought everyone involved was excellent. Its a program worth watching and a welcome surprise!

It was flanked by repeats of older Cooper programing beginning with the Colbert-Rackstraw/ Mucklow program where the FBI closes the case, and another program closing the evening with Ulis chaos. We turned away to another channel and then CNN and local news ...

Edited May 16, 2023 by georger

[ParrotheadVol 70]

I thought those from the Vortex represented themselves well. I shot Darren a message after it aired and told him that. Otherwise, I personally did not care for the show. Same old suspects getting rehashed. The money and the tie are where the focus should be. But, I guess the general viewing audience wants suspects. Most will look at it and try and guess which one is the culprit, as if it's a game of Clue and it has to be one of them. Oh well, it's certainly not the first time that History Channel has delivered what I considered to be a disappointing effort. I guess it's a good quick overview of the case for someone not really familiar with it.

Edited May 16, 2023 by ParrotheadVol

[olemisscub 461]

It is often suggested that cabbies wouldn't have remembered Cooper. However, they found the cab driver who took Hahneman to the airport. Hahneman was also just dressed in a basic business suit. Just some food for thought.

[georger 194]

1 hour ago, ParrotheadVol said:

I thought those from the Vortex represented themselves well. I shot Darren a message after it aired and told him that. Otherwise, I personally did not care for the show. Same old suspects getting rehashed. The money and the tie are where the focus should be. But, I guess the general viewing audience wants suspects. Most will look at it and try and guess which one is the culprit, as if it's a game of Clue and it has to be one of them. Oh well, it's certainly not the first time that History Channel has delivered what I considered to be a disappointing effort. I guess it's a good quick overview of the case for someone not really familiar with it.

Its obvious when someone is trying to engineer or force the result they want. That was particularly true of the exchanges between Ammerman and Ulis. Ulis wants Cooper to have jumped anywhere near Tena Bar in order to explain the Ingram money find. Colbert wants the Ingrams to have been addicts who were lead by their drug dealer to go to Tena Bar and 'dig here' ... and five days later the money is found! (It either happened or it didn't!) And of course the drug dealer doesnt fit the Cooper profile/sketch. 

Imagine what this case would be like without Tom Kaye!  It would be pure witchcraft!     

Bad actors have no business trying to capture the Cooper case!  The case is bigger than one actor.

Edited May 16, 2023 by georger

[Robert99 37]

2 hours ago, georger said:

Its obvious when someone is trying to engineer or force the result they want. That was particularly true of the exchanges between Ammerman and Ulis. Ulis wants Cooper to have jumped anywhere near Tena Bar in order to explain the Ingram money find. Colbert wants the Ingrams to have been addicts who were lead by their drug dealer to go to Tena Bar and 'dig here' ... and five days later the money is found! (It either happened or it didn't!) And of course the drug dealer doesnt fit the Cooper profile/sketch. 

Imagine what this case would be like without Tom Kaye!  It would be pure witchcraft!     

Bad actors have no business trying to capture the Cooper case!  The case is bigger than one actor.

Georger, this is just more insults from you since you can't handle what Ammerman told Ulis.

For the record and for the information of people who didn't see the Ulis and Ammerman exchange, Ammerman told Ulis that he could not determine the hijacked airliner specific location to within several miles based on the radar information he had.

Ammerman's statement actually supports the Western Flight Path since it only leaves V-23 for a few miles and for a short time.

For reasons best known to them, Georger and FlyJack can never accept the Western Flight Path.  And FlyJack appears to have left this site after a recent exchange with the site managers.

All the Western Flight Path requires is that you stick to facts.  

 

[olemisscub 461]

59 minutes ago, Robert99 said:

 

All the Western Flight Path requires is that you stick to facts.  

This is four days after the skyjacking. Are we going to assume that ATC radar is wrong? If so, there would be dozens of airline collisions in American skies daily. 

[georger 194]

7 hours ago, Robert99 said:

Georger, this is just more insults from you since you can't handle what Ammerman told Ulis.

For the record and for the information of people who didn't see the Ulis and Ammerman exchange, Ammerman told Ulis that he could not determine the hijacked airliner specific location to within several miles based on the radar information he had.

Ammerman's statement actually supports the Western Flight Path since it only leaves V-23 for a few miles and for a short time.

For reasons best known to them, Georger and FlyJack can never accept the Western Flight Path.  And FlyJack appears to have left this site after a recent exchange with the site managers.

All the Western Flight Path requires is that you stick to facts.  

 

OK.

Edited May 17, 2023 by georger

[Coopericane 44]

I just watched the History Channel special. It was pretty good, though very little new ground was covered (unsurprisingly).

- Drove me mad that they used the "A" sketch throughout the entire program. I guess they didn't have the time to explain the "B" sketch? Though I would argue that's pretty important to cover.

- I had never actually heard about Dick Briggs and his eerie prediction about the Ingrams finding the money before. Seems pretty apocryphal and difficult to verify, though. Also, knowing that he was a proven liar, I would probably just lump him in with the other false confessors at this point.

- I didn't know Lakich worked in an environment possibly suitable for the tie particles. He was a more unorthodox suspect I was glad to see covered. Don't think he was Cooper, but the circumstances surrounding his family's death are interesting and something I want to learn more about.

- And of course there was the segment about William J. Smith at the end! No new pics or information as far as I could tell, though.

Edited May 17, 2023 by Coopericane

[Robert99 37]

9 hours ago, olemisscub said:

This is four days after the skyjacking. Are we going to assume that ATC radar is wrong? If so, there would be dozens of airline collisions in American skies daily. 

Have you seen the interview between Ammerman and Ulis?  It includes a discussion of the accuracy of ATC radar systems.  And Ammerman said the accuracy was miles and that is typical for the 1971 time frame.

Also, remember that Ammerman was a controller for the Seattle Air Traffic Control Center and not a Portland Airport tower controller.

Edited May 17, 2023 by Robert99

[c99acer 6]

9 hours ago, Coopericane said:

I just watched the History Channel special. It was pretty good, though very little new ground was covered (unsurprisingly).

- Drove me mad that they used the "A" sketch throughout the entire program. I guess they didn't have the time to explain the "B" sketch? Though I would argue that's pretty important to cover.

- I had never actually heard about Dick Briggs and his eerie prediction about the Ingrams finding the money before. Seems pretty apocryphal and difficult to verify, though. Also, knowing that he was a proven liar, I would probably just lump him in with the other false confessors at this point.

See the older History Channel, 2-part series from July 2016, for more on the Igram find. Dwayne says a little too much in the interview at minute 62 of episode 1. The same information is given in Colbert's book, The Last Master Outlaw... [page 188] ... "see them two little sticks right there" after young Brian cleared his first spot for the fire. 

In addition, see the Ingram's reaction at minute 68 in the same episode 1, where Dwayne and Brian watch the Ron Carlson interview pegging the "hippie couple". Similar explanation in the book [pp 166-68]. 

This Dropzone forum was down during that period and I never saw any discussion on any of these points on the other forums. Seems like two big keys regarding the 'money plant'.