JAGdb 38 #60551 February 16 1 hour ago, FLYJACK said: Belair also had Raleigh coupons.. (1966 ads) I spent some time a while ago looking at the 1960s era Raleigh/Belair coupon catalogs. The men in the catalog are from central casting for the Cooper witness descriptions. I always wondered if maybe the tie clip or his pocket knife came from the catalog, but alas it was pure speculation and there was no way to connect anything. In the 40s, there was a show called The Raleigh Cigarette Program. I believe Red Skelton was the host. In more fantasy and speculation, I imagined that maybe Cooper watched the program as a young man or boy with his family and that's how he became a Raleigh cigarettes smoker ? Anyway....some links below related to the post. https://creativepro.com/scanning-around-gene-back-when-smoking-was-rewarded/ https://www.grayflannelsuit.net/blog/1968-raleigh-belair-cigarette-coupon-catalog https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Raleigh_Cigarette_Program 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 502 #60552 February 16 1 minute ago, JAGdb said: I spent some time a while ago looking at the 1960s era Raleigh/Belair coupon catalogs. The men in the catalog are from central casting for the Cooper witness descriptions. I always wondered if maybe the tie clip or his pocket knife came from the catalog, but alas it was pure speculation and there was no way to connect anything. In the 40s, there was a show called The Raleigh Cigarette Program. I believe Red Skelton was the host. In more fantasy and speculation, I imagined that maybe Cooper watched the program as a young man or boy with his family and that's how he became a Raleigh cigarettes smoker ? Anyway....some links below related to the post. https://creativepro.com/scanning-around-gene-back-when-smoking-was-rewarded/ https://www.grayflannelsuit.net/blog/1968-raleigh-belair-cigarette-coupon-catalog https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Raleigh_Cigarette_Program Raleigh's were given out to military in WW2,,, I have been trying to find out if they were available in the Vietnam war, either through rations or for private purchase.. Would somebody, military or not have access to Raleigh's in Vietnam 1965-1971.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JAGdb 38 #60553 February 17 6 hours ago, FLYJACK said: Raleigh's were given out to military in WW2,,, I have been trying to find out if they were available in the Vietnam war, either through rations or for private purchase.. Would somebody, military or not have access to Raleigh's in Vietnam 1965-1971.. I haven't been able to find any reference to Raleigh's being part of the Vietnam ration packages. It's possible they were for sale in commissary stores. Any Vietnam vets on the board ? I did see that Raleigh's were a lesser used brand in WW2 K rations. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 502 #60554 February 17 Cigarette brand study... 2006-2011 data https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4743742/ Recent studies have suggested that about 1 in 5 smokers report switching brands per year. However, these studies only report switching between brands. The current study estimated the rates of switching both within and between brand families and examining factors associated with brand and brand style switching. Conclusions Nearly half of smokers in the US switched their cigarette brand or brand style within a year. Switching between brands may be more price-motivated, while switching within brands may be motivated by price and other brand characteristics such as product length. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 122 #60555 February 17 (edited) 17 hours ago, JAGdb said: I haven't been able to find any reference to Raleigh's being part of the Vietnam ration packages. It's possible they were for sale in commissary stores. Any Vietnam vets on the board ? I did see that Raleigh's were a lesser used brand in WW2 K rations. Back in the day, cigs were sold at all VA facilities eg VA Hospital commissaries. Raleighs were often featured because of promotions. Sometimes 13 cents a pack or even $1.30 per carton. Other brands .25 per pack. $2.50 per carton. I know because I worked in several research labs housed at VA Hospital Iowa City during that period. Raleighs were heavily promoted vs other brands. The same at military bases. Almost everybody smoked including doctors ... cigs were sold at commissaries on State and University properties and on military bases. The whole US economy was different back then vs today! People's economic outlook was different back then - that is one reason why Cooper asking 200k stands out vs just a few years later. Cooper was part of the old WWII economy vs just a decade later after the mid 70s Arab Oil Embargo sent the US and world economy into recession. The world economy literally changed just a few years after 1971-72 The middle 70s changed the world economy-politics ushering in Reaganism and we still havent recovered! Cooper's grudge had to be political. There is no escaping that! Edited February 17 by georger 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
olemisscub 232 #60556 February 17 Some wild footage from one of the Cooper Copycat hijackings. If you recall, this is the hijacking I posted about recently where the pilots abandoned ship and left the Stews with the armed hijackers. The plane landed on a small airfield south of Houston and news reporters went to the scene to cover it. They were blocked by local law enforcement and a brawl ensued. Try to imagine a physical encounter with law enforcement like this occurring in today's world! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WalterRaleigh 4 #60557 February 19 (edited) On 2/16/2023 at 1:48 PM, JAGdb said: I spent some time a while ago looking at the 1960s era Raleigh/Belair coupon catalogs. The men in the catalog are from central casting for the Cooper witness descriptions. I always wondered if maybe the tie clip or his pocket knife came from the catalog, but alas it was pure speculation and there was no way to connect anything. In the 40s, there was a show called The Raleigh Cigarette Program. I believe Red Skelton was the host. In more fantasy and speculation, I imagined that maybe Cooper watched the program as a young man or boy with his family and that's how he became a Raleigh cigarettes smoker ? Anyway....some links below related to the post. https://creativepro.com/scanning-around-gene-back-when-smoking-was-rewarded/ https://www.grayflannelsuit.net/blog/1968-raleigh-belair-cigarette-coupon-catalog https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Raleigh_Cigarette_Program A lot of smokers have a "go to" brand, and then a backup brand of choice in case a place doesn't carry your "go to". Raleigh might have been Cooper's primary, or it may have been his backup. Edited February 19 by WalterRaleigh Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coopericane 35 #60558 February 19 (edited) There's something I've wondered about in the back of my mind for a while... could Max Gunther's Dan Leclair have been inspired by an infamous book called The Paper Trip? I stumbled upon a digital copy yesterday, and I was surprised at how well some of the instructions line up with what Gunther lays out in his book. It does seem like the sort of book a man like Leclair, someone obsessed with "disappearing" himself, would seek out and read... https://archive.org/details/the-paper-trip/mode/1up Edited February 19 by Coopericane Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 502 #60559 February 19 1 hour ago, Coopericane said: There's something I've wondered about in the back of my mind for a while... could Max Gunther's Dan Leclair have been inspired by an infamous book called The Paper Trip? I stumbled upon a digital copy yesterday, and I was surprised at how well some of the instructions line up with what Gunther lays out in his book. It does seem like the sort of book a man like Leclair, someone obsessed with "disappearing" himself, would seek out and read... https://archive.org/details/the-paper-trip/mode/1up Max wrote an article about "disappearing" in the early 60's.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coopericane 35 #60560 February 20 30 minutes ago, FLYJACK said: Max wrote an article about "disappearing" in the early 60's.. Right... I forgot about that. Nevermind lol. Also the timeline doesn't seem to work considering The Paper Trip was only first published in 1971... Is there a digital copy of "Do-It-Yourself Divorce" floating around anywhere? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 502 #60561 February 20 23 minutes ago, Coopericane said: Right... I forgot about that. Nevermind lol. Also the timeline doesn't seem to work considering The Paper Trip was only first published in 1971... Is there a digital copy of "Do-It-Yourself Divorce" floating around anywhere? I couldn't find one online so I bought the magazine with the article off Ebay.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CooperNWO305 105 #60562 February 24 On 2/16/2023 at 2:48 PM, JAGdb said: I spent some time a while ago looking at the 1960s era Raleigh/Belair coupon catalogs. The men in the catalog are from central casting for the Cooper witness descriptions. I always wondered if maybe the tie clip or his pocket knife came from the catalog, but alas it was pure speculation and there was no way to connect anything. In the 40s, there was a show called The Raleigh Cigarette Program. I believe Red Skelton was the host. In more fantasy and speculation, I imagined that maybe Cooper watched the program as a young man or boy with his family and that's how he became a Raleigh cigarettes smoker ? Anyway....some links below related to the post. https://creativepro.com/scanning-around-gene-back-when-smoking-was-rewarded/ https://www.grayflannelsuit.net/blog/1968-raleigh-belair-cigarette-coupon-catalog https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Raleigh_Cigarette_Program I remember the gray flannel suit site and found it a vortex coincidence that Gunther mentions that movie in his book. Decent old time film with paratroopers. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 122 #60563 February 26 (edited) The first mass spectrometer - originally called a parabola spectrograph - was constructed in 1912 by J.J. Thomson, best known for his discovery of the electron in 1897. So, between 1971-80 the FBI Lab had some form of mass spectrometry in its repertoire with which to look at DB Cooper case evidence. No Agent or Case Manager however, apparently ever asked for such an analysis - why would they if they didnt even know about such things - so for example tie particles were never envisioned as having any value in the Cooper case nor was any work done to look at the Cooper tie until the 2000s. So far as the case is concerned the tie might as well have not existed! Today, everyone is aware of forensic evidence in criminal cases but the majority of people are not experts. The majority of people dont know how to use or interpret forensic evidence because they simply lack the background. That does not stop some people from using or mentioning forensic evidence, as if they were experts! It is an embarrassing situation which inevitably leads to a breakdown in communications. It usually takes years to resolve such issues. Case evidence fades away into oblivion. Edited February 26 by georger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WalterRaleigh 4 #60564 February 27 On 2/16/2023 at 10:20 AM, olemisscub said: Been to able to clean up and enhance the best image we have of KK5-1 (the one that FBI gave Doc Edwards) Looks a bit Hahneman-ish. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
olemisscub 232 #60565 February 27 Copycat Richard LaPoint told some Catholic priests to get off the plane even before his ransom showed up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DWeber 2 #60566 February 28 22 hours ago, WalterRaleigh said: Looks a bit Hahneman-ish. I wouldn’t be shocked if Hahneman was Cooper but lots of dots to connect there and most of them are deeply buried. Hoping Fly can pull it off. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
olemisscub 232 #60567 February 28 1 hour ago, DWeber said: I wouldn’t be shocked if Hahneman was Cooper but lots of dots to connect there and most of them are deeply buried. Hoping Fly can pull it off. Hahneman is a real enigma. I don't think we'll ever know what he was really up to. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WalterRaleigh 4 #60568 February 28 24 minutes ago, olemisscub said: Hahneman is a real enigma. I don't think we'll ever know what he was really up to. I think the limited hangout (my opinion) raising his his name during E. Howard Hunt's congressional testimony is a good starting point. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
olemisscub 232 #60569 February 28 (edited) 10 hours ago, WalterRaleigh said: I think the limited hangout (my opinion) raising his his name during E. Howard Hunt's congressional testimony is a good starting point. Hahneman's first cousin, Robert Ordonez, was the Honduran Ambassador to the United Nations. Hahneman had apparently stayed at Ordonez' home in Honduras while on the run, but Ordonez was in New York at the time. My belief is that the Representative who asked Hunt the question about Hahneman was just throwing random things at the wall. For whatever reason he remembered the connection between the Honduran ambassador and his hijacking cousin, so when the topic of Honduras came up he just threw that out there. Just my opinion though. Edited February 28 by olemisscub Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 502 #60570 February 28 2 hours ago, olemisscub said: Hahneman's first cousin, Robert Ordonez, was the Honduran Ambassador to the United Nations. Hahneman had apparently stayed at Ordonez' home in Honduras while on the run, but Ordonez was in New York at the time. My belief is that the Representative who asked Hunt the question about Hahneman was just throwing random things at the wall. For whatever reason he remembered the connection between the Honduran ambassador and his hijacking cousin, so when the topic of Honduras came up he just threw that out there. Just my opinion though. It has nothing to do with his cousin.. I am currently writing up everything into a report/dossier. and I hate writing,, the amount of information is overwhelming. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
olemisscub 232 #60571 February 28 Hahneman run through an AI enhancement. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coopericane 35 #60572 February 28 Hahneman does have that "geeky, older guy" look going on. Surely the stews must have been shown pictures of him at one point? But the results are probably redacted beyond recognition... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JAGdb 38 #60573 February 28 2 hours ago, olemisscub said: Hahneman run through an AI enhancement. Olemiss, I'm waiting for your next iteration with the sun glasses super imposed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
olemisscub 232 #60574 February 28 (edited) 1 hour ago, Coopericane said: Hahneman does have that "geeky, older guy" look going on. Surely the stews must have been shown pictures of him at one point? But the results are probably redacted beyond recognition... So far no 302's have popped up where we are certain they are about Hahneman other than one relating that Hahneman's composite sketch was shown to a Cooper witness. I find it hard to believe they didn't show his photo to the Cooper witnesses. We know they did it immediately after McCoy and there's no reason to think they wouldn't have done the same for Hahneman considering how similar the hijackings were. From a looks perspective, my issues with "Bill", as he was known, are with his nose and lip. Cooper's nose appears narrow and comes to a point, whereas Hahneman's nose is round and bulbous. Also, the lips are off by a good bit. Fly and I will disagree on this, no doubt, but I believe it's quite evident. Cooper's lower lip is described in the witness statements and 302's as "thick", "pouty", "protruding", and we have an instance where Flo is looking through photos and points to a person and says that their lower lip is similar to Cooper's (meaning that Cooper's lower lip was somewhat distinctive).Whereas Hahneman is literally called "thin lipped" in multiple news articles I've come across. Maybe he got stung by a bee before NORJAK or something. Edited February 28 by olemisscub Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
olemisscub 232 #60575 February 28 33 minutes ago, JAGdb said: Olemiss, I'm waiting for your next iteration with the sun glasses super imposed 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
