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Actually, nobody is really eliminated..

The FBI files state that some suspects who were eliminated were later un-eliminated.

Elimination for many suspects was subjective.

 

So, elimination by the FBI wasn't really conclusive.. 

 

BTW,, I found no indication Hahneman was ever eliminated. He was investigated years after he was in custody.

Edited by FLYJACK

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4 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Actually, nobody is really eliminated..

The FBI files state that some suspects who were eliminated were later un-eliminated.

Elimination for many suspects was subjective.

 

So, elimination by the FBI wasn't really conclusive.. 

I will go along with that assessment. Plus, the FBI seldom makes 'official' announcements on one suspect or another. You have to examine that suspect's current status, any new evidence, or what the media is saying to make any reasonable determination. As far as LD Cooper goes, he was a fail on both evidentiary tests, and the FBI over the last eight years has never said another word about him. Neither has LD's family stepped up to the plate with any new evidence, or a shred of testimony...and they've had eight long years to do so. Marla has also claimed that at least one of the stews pointed to LD as Cooper. I don't believe that, and part of the reason is because of Tina Mucklow's appearance on the show, DB Cooper Case Closed? If she had already identified a previous suspect as Cooper, she wouldn't have bothered going on that show to look at pictures of Rackstraw. 

If Marla's family had anything, they would have presented it by now. 
*******************
Update on Sheridan Peterson, who lives in Santa Rosa CA in the area where wildfires are going:  
The place where Sheridan lives is close to the center of the city, and is NOT under mandatory evacuation orders right now. (I have his address and looked it up on the Sonoma County evac map.)

Parrothead Vol said this, and I thought I should elaborate:

Quote

' I'll bet anyone here 10 bucks that this won't stay cancelled long.' (Meaning our proposal for a 2020 DB Cooper event aimed at the public)

Let's put it this way, Parrot. If enough interest is shown in such an event, then I will reconsider. Otherwise, I'm not forking out the bucks to do it. Between the Cooper Character Lookalike Contest prizes, paying some of the speakers, arranging the venue, and covering a few travel expenses for these same people...we're talking four figures here. If Cooperland really wants me to put up for all this...then they should indicate real interest and a willingness to participate. I'm not going to try and force something on people they don't really want, especially when I have to spend my own money to do it. 

Otherwise...we do as Greg the Techie Guy suggests and just stick with the Cooper Campouts. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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The Big Storm on the Night of the Hijacking Myth. One of my favorites.

Total baloney. This comes mostly from people who either don't live in Washington state, or weren't in western Washington on the day of the hijacking. I was living about twenty miles SSE of SeaTac Airport at the time. We ran a small farm in Sumner, WA.

Storm? Not a chance in frickin' hell. Misty rain off and on all day, almost no wind. Then we watched the hijacking on TV. 

You don't have to believe me. You can look at the historical record from Weather Underground:
(Click on picture to view full size)

 

BustingTheMyth.jpg

Below: Same day, same source, SeaTac Airport.

BustingTheMyth2.jpg

 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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20 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Was wondering if you still believe LD is a suspect in the Cooper case...or if you disagree simply because it was I who brought up the idea he no longer qualifies. not. 

I don't think LD is Cooper, but I also don't think the FBI ever officially said so either. Look, there's an old saying about how if you say something enough times, it becomes the truth. If you say LD and Sheridan were eliminated enough times, people will eventually accept it as fact, even if it isn't true - and for all I know, it may be true, I just haven't seen it if it is. But you will say that, and say it again and then somewhere down the line - a week, a month, maybe a year - but at some point, you will remind us all how Fred Gutt (?) said that Kenny boy had never been eliminated. That's called spin, and you're very good at it. I would assume that to be eliminated, one must first be investigated, but let's not get caught up in details. So, for future reference, LD and Sheridan were both investigated by the FBI and as far as we can tell have never been officially eliminated as suspects even though the case is pretty much closed and no one is being looked at any longer. I'm sure there are plenty of others that we could say the same about. Even though the FBI is most certainly aware of Kenny Christiansen, they never bothered to investigate him and obviously did not consider him a viable suspect. Again, unless there is something there that we are unaware of.

That Robert, is my reasoning for pointing these things out. It isn't because I think good ol' uncle LD is DB Cooper. It's just because I like to keep the facts straight and that isn't always easy here in Coppertown is it?

Pretty simple, right?

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One thing I noticed,, 

The FBI docs names the suspects they have investigated who have died since..

Rackstraw, McCoy, Coffelt and others...

Sheridan Peterson's name is redacted as he is still alive.

 

Hahneman is redacted but he died almost 30 years ago.

 

What are the redaction policies,, one is privacy.

A dead person does not fall under the privacy provision.

 

So, why redact a dead person??

 

EDIT: here they are..  so why Hahneman?

A. Could reasonably be expected to interfere with enforcement proceedings; 
B. Would deprive a person of a right to a fair trial or an impartial adjudication; 
C. Could reasonably be expected to constitute an unwarranted invasion of personal privacy; 
D. Could reasonably be expected to disclose the identity of confidential source, including a state, local, or foreign agency or authority or any private institution that furnished information on a confidential basis, and, in the case of a record or information compiled by a criminal law enforcement authority in the course of a criminal investigation or by an agency conducting a lawful national security intelligence investigation, information furnished by a confidential source; 
E. Would disclose techniques and procedures for law enforcement investigations or prosecutions or would disclose guidelines for law enforcement investigations or prosecutions if such disclosure could reasonably be expected to risk circumvention of the law, or; 
F. Could reasonably be expected to endanger the life or physical safety or any individual.

Edited by FLYJACK

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5 hours ago, ParrotheadVol said:

I don't think LD is Cooper, but I also don't think the FBI ever officially said so either. Look, there's an old saying about how if you say something enough times, it becomes the truth. If you say LD and Sheridan were eliminated enough times, people will eventually accept it as fact, even if it isn't true - and for all I know, it may be true, I just haven't seen it if it is. But you will say that, and say it again and then somewhere down the line - a week, a month, maybe a year - but at some point, you will remind us all how Fred Gutt (?) said that Kenny boy had never been eliminated. That's called spin, and you're very good at it. I would assume that to be eliminated, one must first be investigated, but let's not get caught up in details. So, for future reference, LD and Sheridan were both investigated by the FBI and as far as we can tell have never been officially eliminated as suspects even though the case is pretty much closed and no one is being looked at any longer. I'm sure there are plenty of others that we could say the same about. Even though the FBI is most certainly aware of Kenny Christiansen, they never bothered to investigate him and obviously did not consider him a viable suspect. Again, unless there is something there that we are unaware of.

That Robert, is my reasoning for pointing these things out. It isn't because I think good ol' uncle LD is DB Cooper. It's just because I like to keep the facts straight and that isn't always easy here in Coppertown is it?

Pretty simple, right?

Not THAT simple. According to your criteria NO ONE ever gets 'eliminated' as a suspect. No how, no way, nada, negatory, not happening. At some point...if the FBI isn't going to make an official announcement on someone, then you must use certain criteria to make the judgment call on your own. Where does it begin, or end for that matter?

You need a baseline here for the suspect pool, otherwise you could say anyone could be a suspect and no one *ever* gets eliminated from that pool, no matter how much hard evidence showing they weren't involved surfaces. 

My criteria for elimination is two fold. First, if that person was boots-on-the-ground investigated by the FBI and items or DNA were provided that turned out negative. That is one. The other is if the FBI...after going through all that...no longer actively pursues that suspect. No longer questions him. Isn't watching him. Isn't talking to his friends and family about the case. Hasn't discussed him with the media for years. That would seem to be a good baseline. 

If we think about it your way, everyone in North America is still a suspect, and almost no one has been 'officially' eliminated from contention. Even after nearly fifty years. 

Just because the FBI doesn't make the Big Announcement on someone...does not mean they haven't written him off. The FBI wrote off Kenny back in early 2008, or at least Agent Carr did, basing his opinion solely on a single article by Geoff Gray in New York Magazine. At that time...I had not even heard of Kenny Christiansen. Our investigation didn't start for at least a year later. 

EDIT: On a practical basis, I think it is okay to say some suspects have been 99.9% eliminated from contention, whether the FBI makes it official or not. You look at their actions on that suspect, and what has, or has not, been discovered. Using that baseline, you could eliminate Duane Weber, Sheridan Peterson, LD Cooper, certainly Walter Reca, John List, and a few others. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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Well, it was news to me that a 14-year-old boy from Alabama tried to hijack a plane, and used a real gun doing it. No books by John Morgan Mathews, but he should write one. B|  I did crazy stuff aplenty when I was a kid, but never hijacking a commercial airliner. They said he was rather meek and quiet doing it as well.

I like him already. He's number 24 on the Brendan Koerner hijacking list. 

EDIT: And this kid is a real mystery, too. He was shuffled around a bit in foster care, and then vanished from the face of the Earth at age 16 or so. An Alabama-based news article from Jan 2019 talks to some of the principals, but even THEY don't know where he went or ended up. Maybe California. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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Suspect elimination is mostly subjective unless the person's location during NORJAK was confirmed.

Bernie Rhodes and Russell Calame claimed McCoy was Cooper but his prints did not match the NORJAK prints. They claim that the unidentified NORJAK prints are not confirmed as Cooper.

and..

The Raleigh cigarettes were checked for prints and none found.

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Ran into something very strange,,

Tried a BOP lookup for Hahneman, couldn't find him, he was in Federal prison from 1972-1984.. Paroled and discharged in 1984. Turns out his named was misspelled in the DOP database but I found it trying different spellings. The record showed he was released in 1991, just before he died. This doesn't make sense.

I ran a FOIA request and was told they have no record of him. I pointed out the misspelled name and they re-iterated NO RECORD. Destroyed after 10 years??

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'Tried a BOP lookup for Hahneman, couldn't find him, he was in Federal prison from 1972-1984.. Paroled and discharged in 1984...'

Do you know the circumstances of his arrest and trial? People don't get arrested and end up in prison on the same day. Not generally. Time in county jail, a trial, bail or no bail, possible appeals before sentencing, etc come into play here. 

In other words, if Hahneman was sent to Federal prison in early 1972, he may not have been actually available to do the Cooper hijacking. He may have been sitting in detention waiting for trial or something. Just saying. 

Probably need to pin down where and when he was arrested, circumstances of arraignment and trial, etc to determine where he actually WAS in late 1971. If he got bail prior to sentencing, generally you can't leave the area and the bail guys try to make sure you comply. Doesn't mean he didn't leave the area to do the Cooper Caper but I think some research of his whereabouts and activities regarding the time prior to actually GOING to prison is needed here. 

EDIT: There is another consideration here. Hahnehan, since he was in Federal prison (you say) by 1972, would have his prints in the NCIC record...a database the FBI was no doubt using to try and match up the prints they *allegedly* believed were Cooper's. If the Feds actually HAD even one legit print from Cooper, they would have eventually matched it to Hahneman's set in the NCIC database.

Since the FBI has never been able to find any match to the prints they *allege* (believe) belong to Cooper, this had led most folks to believe that Cooper either did not have a criminal record, or else he was in the military WITHOUT a criminal record...and his prints were destroyed in the 1973 St Louis Military Records Center fire. A third possibility is that the prints are NOT Cooper's, but still belong to someone without a criminal record. 

(Special Note on fingerprints and the 1973 fire: Prior to the fire, the print records [and the military records in your jacket there] were NOT digitalized. It was impossible at that time to take a couple of prints to the Records Center and tell them to match them up to a particular serviceman. They were keeping records on people clear back to World War 1 and even prior. All were on paper. You would need something besides a print to get any viable results. It was the FBI who started computerizing prints and identities, not the military. And then they lost a great deal of of all that in the fire.) 

I don't want to be the one to tell you this, but if the FBI actually DOES have at least one solid print from Cooper, this really goes against a suspect who had a known criminal record, before or after the date of the hijacking. Today, they can take a single print from a suspect, run it through the database comparing it to millions of available fingerprint records, and get a match or no match in less than an hour. I have actually seen cops do this, when someone refused to identify themselves after an arrest. This ability came along in the 80's, but got better as time went on and computers got faster. You have to believe that the FBI ran the prints they had against the NCIC database several times, maybe over a period of decades right up to Agent Carr's day, in an effort to finally identify the hijacker. 

This only leaves two possibilities for Hahneman as Cooper. 

A) Hahneman is not Cooper, or...

B) None of the prints taken from the jet by the FBI actually belong to the hijacker, and there is no criminal record for the ones they DO have from the jet. There are no other possibilities for Hahneman here, otherwise he would have been discovered eventually. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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1 minute ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Do you know the circumstances of his arrest and trial? People don't get arrested and end up in prison on the same day. Not generally. Time in county jail, a trial, bail or no bail, possible appeals before sentencing, etc come into play here. 

In other words, if Hahneman was sent to Federal prison in early 1972, he may not have been actually available to do the Cooper hijacking. He may have been sitting in detention waiting for trial or something. Just saying. 

Probably need to pin down where and when he was arrested, circumstances of arraignment and trial, etc to determine where he actually WAS in late 1971. If he got bail prior to sentencing, generally you can't leave the area and the bail guys try to make sure you comply. Doesn't mean he didn't leave the area to do the Cooper Caper but I think some research of his whereabouts and activities regarding the time prior to actually GOING to prison is needed here. 

I do know the circumstances and timeframe. He hijacked a (US) 727 May 5 1972, jumped from the rear airstairs with a ransom into the Honduran jungle at night, the plane was directed to Mexico then looped over Honduras landing back in Mexico. He turned himself in 4 weeks later and was in US custody from June 1972 till September 1972 when he plead guilty for reduced charges (deal) then serving Federal time until 1984 for the May 5 hijacking.

He was available for the Cooper hijacking timeframe.

I have tracked many of his movements between December 1971 and May 5 1972. He was a loner and estranged from his family in PA for many years.

 

His name is redacted in the FBI files,, why, he died in 1991, there is no privacy concern.

and oddly the BOP had spelled his first name wrong with a record stating he was in custody until 1991. 

 

He has always been labelled a Cooper copycat but a US official in Honduras at the time stated that Hahneman had planned his hijacking for years.

 

 

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Oh, okay. I get it now. There are so many hijackers...LOL I forgot for a moment he was the one who jumped over Honduras and dodged the cops for a while. 

Well...same parameters apply. For your guy to be Cooper, not a single print taken from Flight 305 that the FBI still has on record can belong to Cooper. Otherwise, they would have figured it out by now. 

There is just no other possibility here. If any of the so-called viable prints the FBI says they believe belong to Cooper...really ARE Cooper's...Hahneman would have been identified long ago as Cooper. And sure...it is possible none of the prints belong to Cooper. But it has to be that way, for sure. 

It was kicked around in 1987, started to implement in 1990, and no later than 1995 fingerprint digitization both on state and Fed levels had been pretty much implemented. As the computers got faster and the software improved, the searches went from hours or a day, to less than an hour. A partial history from Princeton:

https://www.princeton.edu/~ota/disk1/1991/9141/914104.PDF

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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Official Announcement Regarding any 'DB Cooper' Event Sponsored by AB of Seattle for 2020:

Read closely, because I am only going to say these things once - 

  • Any decision regarding sponsoring such an event must have input - and interest - from known people in Cooperland, and that interest MUST be sent to us by February 15, 2020 or we cancel any idea of organizing such an event. 
  • The reason for this is because in order to sponsor an event like that on the scale we would like to do, we will have to invest not only the few thousand dollars we receive by February 1 on the Cooper movie option, but some additional funds from the AB accounts as well. 
  • Should little or no interest in such an event reach us by that date, we will spend that money on something else. I want to be upfront about that. We have plans for that money that include improving the gear on our DB Cooper Campouts, should no interest be shown in a bigger event done indoors for 2020. 
  • If interest IS shown by people in Cooperland, we will invite some of you to join not only the Planning Committee for the event, but to participate actively as well, such as being speakers, presenting short films, and the like. 
  • If you're wondering why we decided on this approach, it's because we already wasted mucho time and effort on an event for 2019, and that event (in our opinion) was deliberately torpedoed by EU so that he could charge people $15 bucks a ticket for his upcoming Vancouver, WA event. 
  • However, even after all of that, EU is not necessarily banned, nor will he be excluded from a possible 2020 event by AB...but he should play people straight this time, and deal with them in a realistic manner. 
  • We have decided that such an event should be FREE to the public, with no entry fee. 
  • There are a few built-in parameters that are non-negotiable. These include a Cooper Character Lookalike Contest with Amazon gift cards as prizes. Nobody participating in speaking, presenting short film, or on the Planning Committee will be eligible for these prizes, which are restricted to the general public. 
  • We will bring 'headliners' to the event, in an effort to generate attendance from the general public. 

If there is little or no interest in such an event, we will move on to improving the gear for our Cooper Campouts, which have been successful for the most part, and there will be no hard feelings toward anyone in Cooperland. 

EDIT: In order to ensure everyone is informed on this subject, a copy of this post was sent to several known folks in Cooperland. My suggestion is everyone give this proposal careful thought and provide your responses to it sometime after Christmas. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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7 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Oh, okay. I get it now. There are so many hijackers...LOL I forgot for a moment he was the one who jumped over Honduras and dodged the cops for a while. 

Well...same parameters apply. For your guy to be Cooper, not a single print taken from Flight 305 that the FBI still has on record can belong to Cooper. Otherwise, they would have figured it out by now. 

There is just no other possibility here. If any of the so-called viable prints the FBI says they believe belong to Cooper...really ARE Cooper's...Hahneman would have been identified long ago as Cooper. And sure...it is possible none of the prints belong to Cooper. But it has to be that way, for sure. 

It was kicked around in 1987, started to implement in 1990, and no later than 1995 fingerprint digitization both on state and Fed levels had been pretty much implemented. As the computers got faster and the software improved, the searches went from hours or a day, to less than an hour. A partial history from Princeton:

https://www.princeton.edu/~ota/disk1/1991/9141/914104.PDF

The FBI investigated Hahneman for years (at least) after he was caught for his hijacking. That indicates his whereabouts Nov 25/71 could not be determined and the FBI was not entirely convinced the prints were from Cooper.

McCoy's prints did not match and they continued to investigate him, Calame and Rhodes still think he was Cooper. Rackstraw's fingerprints did not match and they continued to investigate and pursue his palm prints.

Logically, matching the prints would include but not matching does not exclude. The eight unidentified partial prints are not confirmed to be Cooper's.

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5 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Official Announcement Regarding any 'DB Cooper' Event Sponsored by AB of Seattle for 2020:

Read closely, because I am only going to say these things once - 

  • Any decision regarding sponsoring such an event must have input - and interest - from known people in Cooperland, and that interest MUST be sent to us by February 15, 2020 or we cancel any idea of organizing such an event. 
  • The reason for this is because in order to sponsor an event like that on the scale we would like to do, we will have to invest not only the few thousand dollars we receive by February 1 on the Cooper movie option, but some additional funds from the AB accounts as well. 
  • Should little or no interest in such an event reach us by that date, we will spend that money on something else. I want to be upfront about that. We have plans for that money that include improving the gear on our DB Cooper Campouts, should no interest be shown in a bigger event done indoors for 2020. 
  • If interest IS shown by people in Cooperland, we will invite some of you to join not only the Planning Committee for the event, but to participate actively as well, such as being speakers, presenting short films, and the like. 
  • If you're wondering why we decided on this approach, it's because we already wasted mucho time and effort on an event for 2019, and that event (in our opinion) was deliberately torpedoed by EU so that he could charge people $15 bucks a ticket for his upcoming Vancouver, WA event. 
  • However, even after all of that, EU is not necessarily banned, nor will he be excluded from a possible 2020 event by AB...but he should play people straight this time, and deal with them in a realistic manner. 
  • We have decided that such an event should be FREE to the public, with no entry fee. 
  • There are a few built-in parameters that are non-negotiable. These include a Cooper Character Lookalike Contest with Amazon gift cards as prizes. Nobody participating in speaking, presenting short film, or on the Planning Committee will be eligible for these prizes, which are restricted to the general public. 
  • We will bring 'headliners' to the event, in an effort to generate attendance from the general public. 

If there is little or no interest in such an event, we will move on to improving the gear for our Cooper Campouts, which have been successful for the most part, and there will be no hard feelings toward anyone in Cooperland. 

EDIT: In order to ensure everyone is informed on this subject, a copy of this post was sent to several known folks in Cooperland. My suggestion is everyone give this proposal careful thought and provide your responses to it sometime after Christmas. 

So, it's on again? You owe me 10 bucks.

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27 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

The FBI investigated Hahneman for years (at least) after he was caught for his hijacking. That indicates his whereabouts Nov 25/71 could not be determined and the FBI was not entirely convinced the prints were from Cooper.

McCoy's prints did not match and they continued to investigate him, Calame and Rhodes still think he was Cooper. Rackstraw's fingerprints did not match and they continued to investigate and pursue his palm prints.

Logically, matching the prints would include but not matching does not exclude. The eight unidentified partial prints are not confirmed to be Cooper's.

And there's the problem. No prints or DNA that you are certain are Coopers. How else are you going to put someone on that plane? 

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23 minutes ago, ParrotheadVol said:

And there's the problem. No prints or DNA that you are certain are Coopers. How else are you going to put someone on that plane? 

Witnesses would have to say it was him to be able to put him on the plane, or finding evidence that would indicate he was on the plane (took something from the plane that day, took a picture after Tina left and went to the cabin and before he jumped).  Without fingerprints or DNA, it is tough.  Would any witness even remember what he looked like 50 years later?

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56 minutes ago, BParker said:

Witnesses would have to say it was him to be able to put him on the plane, or finding evidence that would indicate he was on the plane (took something from the plane that day, took a picture after Tina left and went to the cabin and before he jumped).  Without fingerprints or DNA, it is tough.  Would any witness even remember what he looked like 50 years later?

They may remember a certain feature or characteristic, but I would be highly skeptical of anyone giving a positive ID this many years later of someone they saw only on one occasion.

Edited by ParrotheadVol

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1 hour ago, ParrotheadVol said:

And there's the problem. No prints or DNA that you are certain are Coopers. How else are you going to put someone on that plane? 

Of course, we as "amateur sleuths" aren't in a position to put somebody on the plane, the FBI couldn't even do it.

But, there are two standards to this case, the "legal" standard and the "public" standard. The FBI's role was to bring a case to the Prosecutor not to publicly solve it. We don't even know if they ever did or not. 

IMO, there is only one way for a 100% solve and that is a real long shot..

Present a suspect so compelling that the FBI does a NEW modern DNA test on the tie and compares to relatives.

 

Hahneman died before the DNA stuff and it currently isn't good enough for familial analysis..

 

I said it before, the case for Hahneman is by far the best I have ever seen by a long shot, a perfect match, short of the forensics which we have no control over.

The fact that he was erroneously branded a copycat, he was investigated for years, his name is unnecessarily redacted in FBI files, he is a perfect match for Cooper, my FOIA battle and nobody (besides me) knows really anything about him suggest that he was a serious suspect who was never eliminated and the FBI wants to hide him from public scrutiny. We have lots of info on McCoy and Rackstraw, nothing on Hahneman yet he is a far better fit for Cooper.

How can we have somebody who matches the Cooper description and profile near perfectly, committed a virtually identical hijacking and know nothing about him from the FBI or media??

 

and, if you read the FBI files it is noted in the 70's that witness memories were already fading...

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Some questions about Hahneman and his Honduran adventure (just out of curiosity)...

 

Do you know:

What kind of parachute he jumped.

Where did he get it (did he bring it or did he ask for it).

What kind of terrain did he land in.

How much money did he get.

Why did he turn himself in.

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20 minutes ago, dudeman17 said:

Some questions about Hahneman and his Honduran adventure (just out of curiosity)...

 

Do you know:

What kind of parachute he jumped.

Where did he get it (did he bring it or did he ask for it).

What kind of terrain did he land in.

How much money did he get.

Why did he turn himself in.

Hahneman requested chutes, I can confirm the equipment came from Andrews AF base, but haven't confirmed the model. He was an air crewman in the US military.

He landed in the Honduran jungle at night jumping from 9000 ft out the rear stairs of a 727. He sustained slight injuries and walked 10 miles to a road into a small town.

He officially got $303,000.

Four weeks later, he turned himself in after his identity was publicly revealed and being hunted by military and others in Honduras looking for the $25,000 reward. He consulted with friends and family before turning himself in, he requested to be brought back to the US. He could have stayed in Honduras as there was no extradition process at that time.

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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6 hours ago, ParrotheadVol said:

So, it's on again? You owe me 10 bucks.

No. Unless interest is shown in such an event, I'm not going to bother with it. I will give it until February 15, as I said. Everyone has been informed. 

My best advice to the people who sent me the emails with their concerns, questions, etc over the last week or two is THIS:

Wait until after Christmas, or at least until after the end of November before you even consider that you might want to participate, or support, such an event. Look...I would do this for people, but due to the costs it's no skin off my nose if people don't want it. I'm not going to bother if there is no interest, and I certainly won't go where I'm not wanted. 

Cooperland should decide all this, not me. If Cooperland wants, Cooperland will GET. If not, no hard feelings. 

Tell you the truth, I'm not expecting anything from anybody. And although I am prepared to fork over what it takes, and put my nose to the grindstone to help arrange such an event, I'm already looking at Amazon to spend the budget on better Cooper Campout gear instead. (Just in case) Such as picking up two of THESE and giving up on the usual Big Tarp for Community Shelter thing we have done until now. Especially since I found out we CAN have more than 14 people according to Forest Service rules. We just can't exceed 75 people without a special permit, and we're not getting that many...or even allowing that many based on the parking problem alone. 

As I see it, the main problem with hosting any Cooper event is that generally it has been a single person calling all the shots, doing the planning and organizing, arranging the schedule and location for it. Then you make a website and ask people to show up and maybe even pay to attend. I don't think this is a good solution, and ends up as little else but a sparse gathering of meeting of the minds. It's not necessarily *bad* but you like to see faces out there when you stand up to speak, and not mostly the people you already know. 

I have something slightly larger in mind, but it needs to be done by committee, not by just one person. One group or person responsible for THIS...another for THAT. Someone assigned as the host, another to bring in speakers or presentations. Someone to print the official programs you hand out at the door, or people have downloaded and printed in advance. A bunch of stuff.

For example, I refuse to host such an event myself. You have to WANT this, you have to take some responsibility. I have patterned this idea after some of the events hosted by Connie H for Auburn Days Festival, where she did things by committee and got a couple of thousand people to show up easily to those events. Not the Festival itself, but some of the side events that surrounded it. 

One person cannot do it all alone. And expect any degree of success. 

People will jump on board if they wish, if they think the idea is good. If they don't, I will move on and not worry about it. You have until February 15, 2020 to think about it. If there is interest, I will hear about it. If not...well, we just up the ante for the Cooper Campouts and do a few of those next year. In 2021 I am moving to SoCal anyway, somewhere near San Diego and that's where I will be from then on. 

What the heck. They say you sometimes end up in the place where you started, and I am originally from that area. Figures. B| Probably end up having to flee from a damn wildfire or pick up the pieces after an earthquake. 

That was a joke, of course...

 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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23 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

An extensive study of the hijacking problem was released in 1972. Runs 178 pages and covers quite a bit about them. For serious researchers only, I would guess. 

You can find (and download it if you wish) HERE in PDF. 

Thank you for posting this Mr. Blevins. I find chapter 1 page 5 extremely interesting. I believe a lot of what is mentioned could possibly be attributed to the db case. What do you think?

 

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3 hours ago, haggarknew said:

Thank you for posting this Mr. Blevins. I find chapter 1 page 5 extremely interesting. I believe a lot of what is mentioned could possibly be attributed to the db case. What do you think?

 

Danger from guns and bombs, etc? Sure, I suppose. Recently, I've been amazed at the sheer number of hijackings that were actually going on back then. 

I liked the end of page six and into page seven...where they have become so common that the Eastern Air Lines VP lists all those facts for pilots:

Just cooperate. Fuel is available from the Navy in Boca Raton, Florida if you're going to Cuba...

A Swiss embassy member in Cuba will probably be at the Havana airport when you land. 

Here are the frequencies and other details for Havana Airport..

The Cubans have been through this many times before...blah, blah, blah. 

I thought it was sort of funny that so many hijackings were going to Cuba that an entire system had been set up between two countries basically hostile to each other. 

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