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24 minutes ago, MarkBennett said:

Parrothead Vol,

Thanks for the post.  Right after this happened I emailed Marla and asked her if they told her the last suspect was LD.  She confirmed the FBI had told her that.  (I also asked her what specifically about LD caught the FBI's attention and she didn't know).

I feel like we've gone around and around this already.  Robert has his own opinions and he's entitled to have them.  I don't think you're going to change his mind no matter what you post.

 

Yes, I agree that I am not going to change his mind. However, most of the time when I post things like this, it isn't so much to try and change his mind, but rather for the benefit of others that may read the forum and may not be regular posters. I just think he needs to be challenged on some things, especially if the prospects of a movie naming Kenny as Cooper are real (which I have my doubts about). 

I've always figured that there were a couple of things about Cooper physically that maybe didn't get released publicly. Perhaps LD was a match to something like that? 

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4 hours ago, ParrotheadVol said:

Yes, I agree that I am not going to change his mind. However, most of the time when I post things like this, it isn't so much to try and change his mind, but rather for the benefit of others that may read the forum and may not be regular posters. I just think he needs to be challenged on some things, especially if the prospects of a movie naming Kenny as Cooper are real (which I have my doubts about). 

I've always figured that there were a couple of things about Cooper physically that maybe didn't get released publicly. Perhaps LD was a match to something like that? 

From the email Smith received: 
'I would caution you from saying we spent five years investigating, because the effort was much less involved. We received items belonging to the 2010 individual and sent them to our lab for forensic testing against the DNA and fingerprint profiles we have on file...'

So what is this telling you that everyone doesn't already know? Everyone knows the basic facts here. Marla came forward in 2010. Yes. Items were submitted. Yes. The results were negative, and it also becomes apparent that the FBI does have at least SOME prints on file they still believe belong to Cooper. 

Now...you are probably asking yourself..."Why did the media make announcements that the FBI had dismissed LD as a suspect by 2011, when the DNA results allegedly took until January 2016 to receive?" 

There could be several reasons.

1) The prints were easier to check, and none were found on the items. 

2) Marla's family members would not go on the record to support her story. (Imagine for a moment the time comes when FBI agents come to them and start asking questions, and none of them will support her story. It's one thing for Marla to have her fun with the media, and another thing entirely to ask your own family to lie to Federal agents for you. If a single one of them had verified Marla's story, preferably anyone who was an ADULT at the time of the hijacking, like her mother...this would have been front page, international wire news the same day. No one did. 

3) Maybe they saw her Facebook posts for themselves, and realized they (FBI) were being used. 

4) Someone in the FBI decided LD was a poor physical match for the hijacker.

Not only that, but even Marla confirmed for National Public Radio and other media that the DNA was not a match, nor were any prints even obtained from the LD items...clear back in August 2011. See the article HERE, one of many like it.  To make things more confusing, the 2016 dismissal mentioned in the email does not agree with the news articles, and I don't know the significance of that, but there it is. 

Parrothead says in part:

Quote

"I just think he (yours truly) needs to be challenged on some things, especially if the prospects of a movie naming Kenny as Cooper are real (which I have my doubts about). "

That seems to be the plan by the movie guys, yes. They have told me they plan to name KC as Cooper, yes. What do you want from me on this issue? Part of the deal I made with the production companies was to turn over certain information regarding the investigation into KC...and give them exclusivity on it. In other words, I could release some things, but not a select group of things that I had previously kept quiet about. They BOUGHT the rights to that information when I signed the contract and started accepting the yearly option checks.

So...they think KC's the guy. It's as simple as that. And that I was not supposed to reveal anything about WHO is making the movie until THEY make an announcement first, probably in the trades. I've done pretty well keeping my mouth shut on those things, and they are just as good at working behind the scenes as well. (I'll admit I didn't think it would take them three years to move forward on anything substantial, though.)

But even I can't tell you for sure the movie will 100% sure be made. Signs are good, though. They do try to keep me updated. The script is finally being written and I get to examine it at some point. Someone out there in Cooperland you've heard of has agreed to accept a $30,000 one-time payment to consult on the final script for the movie. (There were two consulting slots at 15K each, one was offered to Bruce, which he refused. It was decided to offer someone else the full amount and just go with myself, that person, and the main screenwriter creating the whole script package.)

There is no use on hammering me about the movie. It wasn't my idea. In fact, it was a parade of negative posts at an unnamed discussion forum that got them curious about me in the first place. Those types of postings are not happening anymore, and I appreciate that. But back when they WERE...this is what actually drove them to contact me for the movie. When they finally did, we came to a deal...and like Brando said in The Godfather...it was a deal I couldn't refuse. No one in Cooperland would have refused such a deal. I tried to act in good faith and involve some of you in all of that, but all I got were refusals, starting with Bruce Smith. Then others followed his lead. If some of you had decided to bypass your emotions about working with me and just make the smart move like I did, you would know everything I know now. 

Would YOU turn down a check for several thousand dollars a year, EACH year...just to wait and see if they make a movie based on your investigatory files on a Cooper suspect, and on YOUR book? Let's be real. None of you would be crazy enough to refuse. This yearly money enabled me to upgrade my camping gear for the Cooper Campout program, for one thing. It also teaches you patience. I wait...YOU wait...we ALL wait to see if they will do it. If they make the movie, I stand to make six figures and three percent of the box office net, plus a big one-time payment for the video rights, and another as 'associate producer'. 

Meanwhile, until they either make the damn thing or decide not to...a four figure check comes in the mail at the end of January each year, and the checks don't bounce. No one in their right mind would turn that down.

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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Robert, I do not recall there being any announcements in 2011 that the FBI had dismissed LD as a suspect. I think that is something else that you are mistaken about. Of course, if you can show that to be the case, I will certainly accept that I am wrong on that point.

I do recall that there were some media reports around that time that the initial testing they did was inconclusive. But I don't recall a dismissal as a suspect.

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3 hours ago, ParrotheadVol said:

Robert, I do not recall there being any announcements in 2011 that the FBI had dismissed LD as a suspect. I think that is something else that you are mistaken about. Of course, if you can show that to be the case, I will certainly accept that I am wrong on that point.

I do recall that there were some media reports around that time that the initial testing they did was inconclusive. But I don't recall a dismissal as a suspect.

I have a good rapport with the Seattle FBI...but even THEY don't keep me privy to all their decisions in the Cooper case. I only went by the many news articles, like the one I linked above. Just like everybody else. 

I would say the matter is certainly closed, and that the FBI no longer considers LD a suspect. The articles that came out are eight years old now. 

EDIT: I saw a rather whine-based comment by Bruce over at another forum the other day. He was complaining about never getting paid for his case expertise, even though he says TV production folks try to squeeze info from him all the time. Well...I hadn't emailed Bruce in months, but I finally sent him one. 

I told him if he really felt that way...then why did he turn down the $15,000 he was offered, (plus a listing in the film as 'associate producer,' with the name of his book displayed in credits as well) if he wanted to make money on the Cooper case? I told him the reason I asked him this was because I never figured out why he only answered my proposals with one-liners, or no answer at all. 

He didn't answer the email, of course. B| The truth is, I figure he refused because he didn't want to be involved in any film that possibly named KC as Cooper. I also told him if that was the reason, then I could respect that. But if it was something else, I probably could not. There are morals...and then there's just plain dumb. I even admitted that these days I felt the same way. I told him that I charged Minnow Films several hundred dollars for my participation in that two-day shoot they did with me. Yes...I finally broke down and took the money LOL. Maybe Bruce is just going through the phase I was in when I dealt with History Channel and the Adrenaline Hunter show. In those cases, I refused the money. By the time I got to Minnow Films, I finally saw things the same as Bruce. I was tired of giving away my time and effort for nothing. 

However, I suppose you could say that I return the favor. All the Cooper Campouts are free to attend and I pony up quite a few bucks each time we do one. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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I don't think that's what Bruce was complaining about, unless there was another post that I missed. The one I saw, his complaint was that someone quoted his writing in their book without his permission. Surely as an author yourself, you understand that complaint?

I didn't see anything about him complaining of not being paid.

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44 minutes ago, ParrotheadVol said:

I don't think that's what Bruce was complaining about, unless there was another post that I missed. The one I saw, his complaint was that someone quoted his writing in their book without his permission. Surely as an author yourself, you understand that complaint?

I didn't see anything about him complaining of not being paid.

I saw that part about using his book material, yes. He was talking about that TV producers or production companies always want info but he isn't getting paid for it. Says they call him up etc. 

Bruce and I agree on this point, believe it or not. If they want advice for this show or that, maybe they SHOULD pay him. I think he talks about Himmelsbach doing that. What the heck? What was good enough for Ralph is good enough for Bruce. I know History Channel had to pay Himmelsbach over $2,000 for his appearance on Decoded. 

While I was dumb enough to refuse even more than that...:|

EDIT: Bruce makes his comment halfway down page 424 on New Forum and News Updates thread. Can't blame him on how he feels about giving all his phone time away for free. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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11 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

I have a good rapport with the Seattle FBI...but even THEY don't keep me privy to all their decisions in the Cooper case. I only went by the many news articles, like the one I linked above. Just like everybody else. 

Nothing in that article indicates that LD was eliminated as a suspect at that time. Nothing.

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1 hour ago, BParker said:

What are the chances of D.B. Cooper being one of the suspects that has already been vetted by the FBI? 

No way to know for sure but my guess is that the identity of the hijacker is probably a name we have never heard. Now, there are probably hundreds of names the FBI may have considered that have never been named publicly. I would lean toward it being someone like that before it being someone we know of.

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16 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

I have a good rapport with the Seattle FBI...but even THEY don't keep me privy to all their decisions in the Cooper case. I only went by the many news articles, like the one I linked above. Just like everybody else. 

 

Quote

Nothing in that article indicates that LD was eliminated as a suspect at that time. Nothing.

Okay. So why split hairs here? It's been eight years since the DNA was a no-match, and the same amount of time going by without a peep from any of Marla's family members confirming her story. 

Knowing that, do you still consider LD a suspect in the case, or do you think the FBI wrote him off as a possible Cooper? I would say he's a write-off by now. 

Agent Fred Gutt out of Seattle is heavily quoted in that article. This is a guy I have spoken with on the phone a few times, along with some emails. Prior to Marla coming along, he was one of the most upfront sources of info for me on the case. When he says the DNA doesn't match, what he means is that LD was eliminated by that DNA test. Gutt has explained to me that although the partial sample from the tie cannot positively match another DNA profile to the hijacker, it can eliminate them from contention. So what Gutt REALLY means with 'no match' is that the person in question was eliminated by the test. 

I hate using this next term, but it's easier to understand this way:  If you PASS the 'test' with the DNA, that suspect cannot be eliminated BY the test...and further investigation is probably warranted. 

You can put an exact date on a dismissal of LD here or there, but since his daughter 'failed' the partial DNA match parameter...and not a single family member has yet vetted Marla's story...and it's been eight years since that test...you have to assume LD is no longer a suspect. For some reason, no one in Marla's family can corroborate her story, and they've had many years of opportunities to do so. 

One thing that has hampered the FBI in the whole investigation is the massive fire of military records in St. Louis. This makes it difficult to obtain someone's fingerprints if they did not have a criminal record...but were in the military. Out of all those records destroyed, they have been trying to restore them, but fingerprint cards were almost impossible to do. Those were generally in your 'main' military record and more or less irreplaceable. For example, the only confirmed print we have on Christiansen is a thumbprint from his DD214 record. However, I still keep preserved a DNA sample from his brother Lyle, and a photograph album where we know it was KC...and KC alone...who inserted all the pictures. These things are kept carefully preserved in our storage office, which is one of two spare bedrooms in a condo. This is kept in case there ever comes a day where the FBI releases both the results of the partial sample from the tie, and the fingerprints they believe are Cooper's. If they ever do release this stuff, I will have the photo album professionally examined and dusted for prints, and a DNA analysis company run Lyle's sample against the partial. 

IF the FBI ever decides to release that stuff...big IF I guess. 

*Just in case anyone is curious, the whole AB of Seattle thing is run out of two spare bedrooms, yes. One room is mostly files. The other has two main computer stations and a laptop area. I get these people who want to do summer with us, mostly college kids. I have to tell them we actually live where we work these things, and that we're pretty small potatoes in the publishing biz anyway. Cute that they contact us, though. I'm sort of flattered by it. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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Only 27 days until CooperCon 2019, and an announcement finally appears about it via the Kiggins Theater website in Vancouver, WA. No link to buy tickets directly from the theater, but there is one to EU's website where you can pick up one at $15 a pop. 

Like last year's Con, I will probably get a few email messages asking if I'm attending this one. Answer is no. Like last year, I will be flying into San Diego for Thanksgiving. When your Marine widow mother-in-law requests your presence for Thanksgiving...you don't tell her no. B|

I am on record as NOT supporting this year's Con for a number of reasons, none of which are important now. I won't go into that. My personal prediction is that the event will be a modest success, but attendance will come nowhere near filling the theater. However, I do wish the attendees the best, and that they have what fun they can while they are there. For the most part, anything that keeps Cooper in the public eye can be a good thing. 

For 2020, plans are in the works for AB of Seattle to sponsor a Cooper event for the anniversary of the hijacking, although we have not chosen a venue or an exact date as yet. We do have a guest speaker list going though. 

For anyone reading this now who plans to appear at the current event, you are invited in advance to apply to appear/present something/speak at our 2020 event. Just email me if interested, but don't wait much past March 1, 2020 to do so. Because of the guests already committed to appearing, there are only a limited number of other speaking slots available. And once we make the official announcement on this program, the remaining slots will fill up within days. I am certain of this. 

The only things I will guarantee at this time regarding the 2020 event are these: 

  • We will make every attempt to ensure there is a capacity audience, by scheduling appearances from people we believe will easily fill the seats. 
  • Although we haven't decided whether an entry fee is necessary or not, it will be substantially LESS than fifteen bucks a ticket. 
  • We will make every effort to ensure Public Television is involved, as well as the local Puget Sound media. 
  • The event will be held ON or NEAR the anniversary of the hijacking, i.e. 11/24/2020. 
  • Some speakers will be paid for their appearance, or at least their travel expenses covered. 
  • Anyone with a built-in reticence to working with us should just ignore this whole post. 
  • The event will be held at a single venue, for one day only, and no side events away from the main venue are planned. 
  • AB of Seattle will be responsible for planning the event, and Greg the Techie Guy will be its executive director. Slots are open for others who wish to help do the planning, especially people already known in Cooperland, but final decisions on anything regarding the event will rest with Greg, and to an extent, myself. We believe in a committee-type approach to planning these things. 
  • The event location is TBA at this point, but will probably be held in the Seattle area. 
  • You can contact me either by private message here at Dropzone, or by searching out our Contact Page at Adventure Books of Seattle. 
Edited by RobertMBlevins

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The ongoing disinformation innuendo campaign by Georger aka J R Warner...

"FLYJAK operates in a similar atmosphere of 'suspicion'  alleging ties between his suspect and Tina Mucklow  going clear back to when Mucklow was in highschool!"

This lie keeps getting repeated..

 

The facts..

Hahneman lived about 50 miles from Tina in PA.. (Hahneman had no accent)

Hahneman's brother had a bank account 9 miles from Tina's school.

 

I found no connection between them, NONE. I have not alleged a tie, to claim that is a lie.

 

further,,

Tina handled some ransom money.

Tina lived a few miles upstream of TBAR in the late 70's.

3 packets were found at TBAR.

 

It would be irrational to not develop the theory that Tina may have kept some ransom money and discarded it later.

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'It would be irrational to not develop the theory that Tina may have kept some ransom money and discarded it later...'

I will *sort of* buy this theory except I have a couple of points to make about it. 

  • Were the other stews present when Tina allegedly handled this money?
  • In order to keep this money, Tina would have to have kept it and said nothing about it, even after the plane landed in Reno. This would necessitate her to lie, conceal the money, get it past FBI questioning, etc. 
  • If either of the other two stews witnessed her accepting money from the hijacker, or even suspected she did, the FBI would have come down on her like a load of bricks. 

Seems unlikely. Not impossible, but unlikely. 

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7 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

'It would be irrational to not develop the theory that Tina may have kept some ransom money and discarded it later...'

I will *sort of* buy this theory except I have a couple of points to make about it. 

  • Were the other stews present when Tina allegedly handled this money?
  • In order to keep this money, Tina would have to have kept it and said nothing about it, even after the plane landed in Reno. This would necessitate her to lie, conceal the money, get it past FBI questioning, etc. 
  • If either of the other two stews witnessed her accepting money from the hijacker, or even suspected she did, the FBI would have come down on her like a load of bricks. 

Seems unlikely. Not impossible, but unlikely. 

Finding 3 packets of ransom money on TBAR in 1980 was unlikely, but it happened.

 

Tina's story about asking for some money then returning it because of a tip policy is sketchy.

The other stews were offered ransom money later as they left.

Tina was alone with the hijacker.

Tina looked very sheepish, head down in Reno video.

Flo stated that she believes Tina is hiding something.

Tina's post hijacking behaviour was odd.

Flo's and Tina's Cooper descriptions vary.. why?

The only ransom money we know of that was separated from the bag was pulled out by Cooper for the stews. It is reasonable that most likely these packets somehow ended up at TBAR.

Tina was the #1 go to witness for the FBI, if she was compromised the case was doomed.

 

We have all the elements of a good theory for the TBAR money. After 50 years of theories I have heard most of them and this one ranks in the top three. It is the simplest and most plausible.

 

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'We have all the elements of a good theory for the TBAR money. After 50 years of theories I have heard most of them and this one ranks in the top three. It is the simplest and most plausible...'

I will agree it is a *decent* theory, not necessarily a good one. I can't go that far with it quite yet. But it IS interesting.

It requires a lot of fill-in-the-blanks, the biggest one being the idea that a young stew for Northwest would actually try to sneak thousands of dollars in stolen ransom money right past her co-workers, the airline, and all those FBI agents. That is a tough stretch. Not out of the range of possibility, but a stretch. That would take one hell of a lot of nerve, especially knowing you were certainly going to be questioned thoroughly once the flight finally ended. 

Now as far as Tina's post-hijacking behavior, are you talking about directly afterward, such as the news conference in Reno, or something broader over the long term? Any odd behavior directly after the flight landed could be easily explained by stress, fear of death, a long flight, all those responsibilities that were dumped on her by the hijacker, interviews by FBI agents, whatever. I can't recall when they actually left Minneapolis at the moment, but that was probably the entire flight crew's longest day ever. 

I have heard something regarding Mucklow and the FBI, but I can't reference it at the moment. (And I'm too tired to look right now LOL)

But...is it true that Mucklow went home to Pennsylvania for a while directly after the crime, and that the FBI did their main questioning of her a few days later in Pennsylvania? I *think* I have heard this mentioned. But I wouldn't swear to it, either. 

On a side note, picture is just a meme joke I made once about Tina. It's not serious. :)

TinaorTena.jpg

Edited by RobertMBlevins
adjusted spacing for picture

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On 10/26/2019 at 6:49 AM, BParker said:

What are the chances of D.B. Cooper being one of the suspects that has already been vetted by the FBI? 

Absolutely zero...IF that suspect was truly 'vetted'. Some were dismissed on almost a whim, or without a real investigation. Others were thoroughly investigated with boots on the ground. Anyone in that category can be said to be eliminated, in my humble opinion. 

These suspects include Duane Weber, Sheridan Peterson, and L.D. Cooper. All three of them were boots-on-the-ground investigated and found lacking. Anyone else I couldn't say for sure. 
*************

EDIT: I got a phone call today from Greg the Techie Guy, (he does all our computers and tech stuff at Adventure Books, a personal friend since 1982, former Microslave guy) 

Greg said: 

Quote

"Why don't we forget this Cooper Event crap and just throw some bigger Cooper Campouts next year..." 

Greg's strictly a tech guy who (these days) assists major companies in Seattle to work out the glitches in their software. Way smarter than me, he can type code in different languages at 70 WPM. I have seen him do it. I can barely play Super Nintendo/NBA Jam. I have the greatest respect for him, to say the least.

I'm seriously considering taking his advice, ditching this whole 'Cooper Event in Seattle' idea and just doing the campouts on a larger scale. Why the hell should I bother putting up all that money, planning all the things that would have to be done to make it a success? The campouts are more fun anyway, and maybe I should leave the alternate stuff to others. Doesn't seem like there is much enthusiasm for it, and we're mostly going maximum number of attendees already on the Campouts. Why mess with success on our little corner of Cooperland? Greg might be RIGHT. We've already invested a ton of money into making comfort and entertainment the key items on the Cooper Campouts. Maybe we should just improve on that and leave the rest alone. This is sounding pretty good to me.

Greg pointed out that we could use the option check from the film companies this year to simply toss our biggest campout ever...and REALLY go crazy. (Plus I don't think he wants the responsibility I tried to dump on him as 'exec director' of any Seattle-based Cooper event in 2020.) Greg has also said that sure, we could pack the house, but we would probably get hammered by some folks in Cooperland along the way. So why bother, he says.

The guy makes sense. Could be my proposed event was not a bad idea, but wasn't worth our time or money. The campouts have been a big hit for the most part. Why change up the plan now? 

EDIT: After staying up late and doing some SERIOUS soul-searching, I have decided to take Greg's advice. For 2020, any Cooper events hosted by AB of Seattle will be the same format we have been doing for the last two years. This means outdoor fun, not trying to arrange an indoor Cooper event. I know I made a previous post here about all that, for which I apologize for jumping the gun, but Greg is right. We should stick to the stuff we already know best, and what has been working for us. 

It's a good thing I didn't post any serious proposals or invitations at AB of Seattle Main, Facebook, Twitter, the Quora Cooper site, WordPress, etc. We will call it a proposal that I decided to withdraw.

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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7 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

I will agree it is a *decent* theory, not necessarily a good one. I can't go that far with it quite yet. But it IS interesting.

It requires a lot of fill-in-the-blanks, the biggest one being the idea that a young stew for Northwest would actually try to sneak thousands of dollars in stolen ransom money right past her co-workers, the airline, and all those FBI agents. That is a tough stretch. Not out of the range of possibility, but a stretch. That would take one hell of a lot of nerve, especially knowing you were certainly going to be questioned thoroughly once the flight finally ended. 

Now as far as Tina's post-hijacking behavior, are you talking about directly afterward, such as the news conference in Reno, or something broader over the long term? Any odd behavior directly after the flight landed could be easily explained by stress, fear of death, a long flight, all those responsibilities that were dumped on her by the hijacker, interviews by FBI agents, whatever. I can't recall when they actually left Minneapolis at the moment, but that was probably the entire flight crew's longest day ever. 

I have heard something regarding Mucklow and the FBI, but I can't reference it at the moment. (And I'm too tired to look right now LOL)

But...is it true that Mucklow went home to Pennsylvania for a while directly after the crime, and that the FBI did their main questioning of her a few days later in Pennsylvania? I *think* I have heard this mentioned. But I wouldn't swear to it, either. 

On a side note, picture is just a meme joke I made once about Tina. It's not serious. :)

TinaorTena.jpg

It is a good theory compared to the other TBAR theories.

It is simple and plausible with some supporting evidence, it fits all the evidence.

It does not support any specific suspect.

 

The other theories are pure speculation and most require a contortion of the evidence. 

Look at this theory in context.

 

The other two I like..

Massive Clamshell dredge and barge operation for erosion mitigation program in 76/77 for Sauvie Island. Cooper loses money in Lewis, it ends up in Columbia and is transported upstream.

 

Some money fell off the stairs as the plane crossed the Columbia.

 

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That flight attendant could be 100% innocent.  However, from the start the crew and pilots were put above suspicion.  There was something to do with pilots and flight crews being above normal citizens.  Also, one of the pilots publicly praised that flight attendant from the beginning, and on Case Closed he was still emotional.  Add to the fact that some of the people who talk about the case, talk about her with awe, like she is this perfect person.  No one is perfect.  If this was a crime that happened today, the first people they would look at would be the crew, the pilots, the mechanics, the ticket people.

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5 hours ago, BParker said:

That flight attendant could be 100% innocent.  However, from the start the crew and pilots were put above suspicion.  There was something to do with pilots and flight crews being above normal citizens.  Also, one of the pilots publicly praised that flight attendant from the beginning, and on Case Closed he was still emotional.  Add to the fact that some of the people who talk about the case, talk about her with awe, like she is this perfect person.  No one is perfect.  If this was a crime that happened today, the first people they would look at would be the crew, the pilots, the mechanics, the ticket people.

yes, she could be innocent, it is just a theory.. everyone has considered it but been afraid to bring up this glaringly obvious theory.

The dredge theory seems to be the dominant one but I can't imagine the money going through a suction dredge and landing in its condition with rubber band fragments attached. Additionally, how did the money get into the river in the first place.

Tosaw speculated that Cooper landed in the Columbia and the TBAR money was the money he offered the stews but put in his coat pocket. But, you have to move the LZ..

Washougal has been debunked, Cooper landing near TBAR and burying it is extremely speculative nonsense.

Most likely, the money came from the river..  how did it get there within the parameters of known evidence.

 

Another thing that is interesting is that 20 bills were missing from one packet.. were they deteriorated and just not found or were they removed before the money was deposited?? 

Clearly, the claim that the rubber bands were "intact" is false and misleading, the edges of the bills/packets were significantly eroded.

If the bills were removed before the money arrived that suggests human intervention.. and perhaps somebody spent them. It would be risky and the money would have become a liability.

If the 3 packets were banded into a single bundle then 20 bills removed from one it would still maintain the integrity of the bundle.. toss it in the river upstream and it lands on TBAR, consistent with river flow. Rubber bands deteriorate/break and the 3 packets separate slightly exactly as found with rubber band frags attached top and bottom not sides.

 

BTW.. 1 packet of 100 bills is about 1/2" thick.. 3 packets = 1.5" thick

Edited by FLYJACK

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8 hours ago, BParker said:

Who attends the Cooper convention? Is it just the D.B. Cooper fanatics on this site and others, or do members of the public show up?  How big is it?

A little tricky to ask me this question, but I will try to answer fairly using a bullet list. Personally, I have not attended any of the conventions to date, but people sent me brief reports on what occurred. (I've attended the Ariel Cooper Days party three times, though.) Plus there's always some online releases about the conventions. 

  • The first convention was held by author Geoff Gray (Skyjack) in 2012, and was a success. 'Hard' attendance (people who came and stayed, not just drifting in and out) probably 60-80 people at most. 
  • The one held last year by Eric Ulis was not so well attended, but had good speakers. It was free to attend and got pretty good advance media coverage in the local press.
  • The one being held THIS year by Ulis is a bit shaky, mostly because there is now a $15 ticket fee and a lack of headliners. A planned combination event that was to be held this year in Portland (at Jim Brunberg's Mississippi Studios) collapsed due to an inability of people to work together. (Scheduled guests arranged included the full cast of the TV show Brad Meltzer's Decoded and a young male Hollywood star, among others.)
  • My company, Adventure Books of Seattle, (small potatoes in the publishing biz) was considering holding an event in 2020, but we decided (just yesterday) it wasn't worth the effort. I would reconsider this decision, but only if I were truly convinced people can work together. 
  • The one REAL place where both Cooper fans and Cooper researchers/authors gathered until 2015 was the annual DB Cooper Days party at the Ariel Tavern and General Store in Ariel, WA. Usual attendance was standing room only or 300+ people, whichever came first. Live music and tavern owner Dona Elliott's stew were big draws. Unfortunately, after Dona passed away, the Tavern could no longer meet building and business codes and it is now the private residence of her son, Bryan Woodruff. People sometimes still drop by and ask to see the place, which Bryan generally allows. Still has all the displays. (See pictures below) Leave a donation in the Donation Jar he keeps on the bar. 

Frankly speaking, infighting among Cooper researchers, online attacks, and jealousy have been the major problems with organizing anything that would attract the public in large numbers. If you attend this year's convention you should expect a very small crowd out there, but you WILL get to meet other Cooper folk, who will be the major part of the audience. It's more of a 'hobnobbing' thing, rather than a true public event in my opinion. If you are satisfied with that, then you should attend. 

Between some of these folks and myself there is a difference in opinion on how to approach these things. Many of them, people such as Bruce S and Eric U, believe THEY should be the stars of the show. My belief is that you should bring in headliners, let THEM be the stars of the show, and then benefit from that by speaking to a packed house. This rift between the people I call 'Cooper Royalty' and myself is huge, and probably cannot be bridged. 

Up here in the Seattle area, we do these 'DB Cooper campouts' two/three times a year and have had great success with those, but due to US Forest Service rules on group camps, we've had to restrict attendance to 14 people in a single spot. The GOOD news is that the Forest Service now allows group camping for up to 75 people without a special permit, as long as you spread the folks and their gear out a bit...so that is encouraging for 2020. (Just found this out yesterday, via Greg) Pictures below from some previous events and the front of a brochure we did for the final Cooper Days party ever held in Ariel. 

 

BigMessAtFirst.jpg

One of our early efforts LOL. Later, we added a bath/shower tent with a portable toilet and started using 20x30 tarps for community shelters. 

GotABitLoud.jpg

These two were definitely in love. Enough said. 

CeCeOnGuard3.jpg

Never mess with a woman packing an SKS. B|

TVsetup.jpg

We started running a generator about 200 feet from the campsite to power everything, especially at night. You couldn't even hear it from that distance. For the lighter draw stuff, we used deep cycle batteries and an inverter. In 2018 we added charging stations and started selecting sites partially based on whether they had good cell service. (So people could do calls and internet) For the last two Cooper Campouts, we added a media projector and a ten foot diagonal screen, set up under a 20x40 tarp. People played video games through it during the day, and we would show movies at night. 

ArielBBQ1.jpg

Raised about $2,500 for the store, but it was a losing effort. It needed about thirty times that much to make the repairs and reopen. We did try, though. 

groupicAriel.jpg

Owner Bryan Woodruff in center, blue shirt. His mother ran the Ariel Cooper party for many years. Her death was a blow to everyone. Picture taken in April 2016 in preparation for the fund raiser that was held a few months later. 

PictureofBar.jpg

Ariel3.jpg

ABOVE: The pool table at the Ariel Tavern. Owner Bryan Woodruff's collection of DB Cooper books are displayed. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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What? Another book by a hijacker? Yes. 

Tamsin Fitzgerald was 18 when she and her boyfriend hijacked a jet to Cuba. She and the boyfriend were one of the luckiest pair of hijackers ever. They let everyone go in the end when they reached Miami, surrendered, and did two years in prison. Later, she said she regretted her actions and started going to college. There are some internet references on her showing she played the flute in New York here and there, in the 80's anyway...

A book is out there called Prison Letters. Have not read this book, so I can't recommend it one way or another.  

 

TamsinBook.jpg

Edited by RobertMBlevins
I had to change some things. May have confused her with a Welsh dance instructor with same name.

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15 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

EDIT: After staying up late and doing some SERIOUS soul-searching, I have decided to take Greg's advice. For 2020, any Cooper events hosted by AB of Seattle will be the same format we have been doing for the last two years. This means outdoor fun, not trying to arrange an indoor Cooper event. I know I made a previous post here about all that, for which I apologize for jumping the gun, but Greg is right. We should stick to the stuff we already know best, and what has been working for us. 

 

I'll bet anyone here 10 bucks that this won't stay cancelled long :D.

 

 

Edited by ParrotheadVol

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15 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Absolutely zero...IF that suspect was truly 'vetted'. Some were dismissed on almost a whim, or without a real investigation. Others were thoroughly investigated with boots on the ground. Anyone in that category can be said to be eliminated, in my humble opinion. 

These suspects include Duane Weber, Sheridan Peterson, and L.D. Cooper. All three of them were boots-on-the-ground investigated and found lacking. Anyone else I couldn't say for sure. 
*************

Man, I hate to split hairs here, but I guess I'm going to anyway. There is a difference between being eliminated officially, and "can be said to be eliminated, in my humble opinion". To the best of my knowledge, both LD Cooper and Sheridan Peterson have never been officially eliminated by the FBI, at least publicly. I'm sure there are others. By all means, if I'm wrong, please show me where I'm wrong and I will gladly stand corrected. I just want people to understand, someone isn't eliminated just because Blevins says they are. And yes, I understand that the FBI has moved on from all of these folks and there is no more investigating them. That doesn't mean they were eliminated though.

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21 minutes ago, ParrotheadVol said:

I'll bet anyone here 10 bucks that this won't stay canceled long.

You mean this, of course:

Quote

EDIT: After staying up late and doing some SERIOUS soul-searching, I have decided to take Greg's advice. For 2020, any Cooper events hosted by AB of Seattle will be the same format we have been doing for the last two years. This means outdoor fun, not trying to arrange an indoor Cooper event. I know I made a previous post here about all that, for which I apologize for jumping the gun, but Greg is right. We should stick to the stuff we already know best, and what has been working for us.

Sure it will stay canceled. Unless Cooperland shows real interest. Why should I cough up all the bucks it would require to pull off an indoor event if there is no serious interest? (I mean a REAL event, not some watered-down, Cooper-Royalty-Only thing that costs fifteen dollars a ticket to enter the door.)  

Greg is right. The Cooper Campouts have worked just fine so far and are a lot more fun. The fresh air and camaraderie are just a bonus. Big campfires, bigger BBQ. Cooper podcasts at near-full volume. Cooper movies and video games. Plus they are easier to organize.

Truth is, I never should have suggested a separate Cooper event in Seattle anyway. Not enough interest to justify the expense. 

Was wondering if you still believe LD is a suspect in the Cooper case...or if you disagree simply because it was I who brought up the idea he no longer qualifies. Let's face it...if he was a zero on the DNA and print stuff...and people in Marla's family haven't supported her story with a bit of testimony or evidence...EVER...my opinion is fully warranted. 

Maybe someone in Cooperland should simply email the Seattle FBI and ask them LD's current status. Here is a hint from one of the many LD type articles:

'Lynn Doyle Cooper was investigated by the FBI as a possible D.B. Cooper suspect, but was ultimately eliminated...' (AP) Eight years later, same thing. If LD was any kind of suspect, someone would have stepped up with something by now. If you want to believe LD is still a viable suspect, feel free to do so. I do not. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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