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DB Cooper

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28 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

The ATC transcripts would seem to indicate it was Cooper's idea.

 

accuracy.jpg

Maybe, still ambiguous.. Cooper may have meant unlocked,,

You need to put all the comm's and pieces together in a timeline to make sense of it..

It is hard to take one snippet without the full context and sequence.. this passage can be read different ways depending on where it fits in.. for example,, was this after the crew suggested locking the stairs half way? It sounds like it was,,

 

Remember, the crew was negotiating with Cooper and being instructed by ground/NWA..

Edited by FLYJACK

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1 hour ago, olemisscub said:

The ATC transcripts would seem to indicate it was Cooper's idea.

 

accuracy.jpg

I checked the crew comm's and this occurred well after the crew had suggested locking stairs half way..

So, it doesn't indicate it was Cooper's idea initially..

and it doesn't contradict anything when placed in context and timeline.

Edited by FLYJACK

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48 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

Gregory claiming he saw Cooper's eyes despite saying in his initial interview that he didn't see Cooper's eyes.

 

accuracy.jpg

He initially referred to eye colour as unknown.. 

This refers to shapes in areas of the face..

Nice try though..

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38 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

Also this was in the latest batch. Probably goes a bit to explain why the FBI was so interested in LD back in the day.

 

tinacoop.jpg

No, that wasn't why... it was something else.

Remember, Tina claimed she never saw Cooper's face straight on..

Edited by FLYJACK

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5 hours ago, olemisscub said:

I'd argue that he wanted stairs down upon take off for two reasons:

1) It would ensure that he wasn't trapped

2) It increases the distance that the authorities would have to search for you because they'd have to assume he jumped anywhere between takeoff in Seattle and landing in Reno; he wasn't aware the pressure bump was going to give him away, obviously.

I have been biased toward #1 all along. As for option 2, no way to know what Cooper's experience was with jumping, or pressure events when leaving planes .... as per 377's comment years ago that all skydivers are familiar with the 'whoosh' and pressure events when leaving planes ? 

Edited by georger

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47 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

“Shapes in areas of the face”. lol. Good grief, dude.
 

 

36DDE485-B0C8-4521-8017-9EFA4522A18A.jpeg

 

He was describing facial shapes, high cheekbones, long nose, eyes as he remembers..

He doesn't say eye colour.

There is no inconsistency. The initial eye description was colour.. unknown.

You are manufacturing a contradiction where none exists.

 

Gregory got an impression of Cooper's eyelid shape.. "heavy lids".. not eye colour... You can get an impression of shapes through sunglasses..

674321944_ScreenShot2022-12-05at12_54_29PM.png.87599dd573d9f09b2ff18153af341338.png

Edited by FLYJACK

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23 hours ago, olemisscub said:

We don’t even know if any of these statements are his words verbatim, so what a fruitless exercise this is. Even if we were certain that they were verbatim it would still be fruitless.

 

Robert H. Edwards's Blog: Great 20th century mysteries

December 5, 2022

D. B. Cooper and Flight 305: the Soderlind saga

Reconstrucion of different versions of a Cooper LZ by Soderlind. 

Edited by georger

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This is it..

Crew transmits Cooper's initial demand..  "stairs to be lwrd after tkoff"

443616521_ScreenShot2022-12-05at4_00_23PM.png.cf96b402689a1466184c167a36443587.png

Now, a little later Cooper wants Tina to manipulate stairs for him.. (that must mean lowering after take-off) crew tries to tell him instructions/operate stairs.. then crew suggests letting them lower partially and possibly locking in intermediate position. 

In this passage Cooper wants Tina to lower stairs and crew tries to convince him to allow them to lower part way..

This indicates crew first suggested stairs lowered for take-off.. they wanted to get Tina off of the plane.

238076777_ScreenShot2022-12-05at3_59_05PM.png.9a14d4d2b2be7ab0fdb59f87619afe6e.png

Cooper still wants Tina to lower stairs after takeoff.. (even after crew suggested lowering part way)

note, here Cooper wants stairs in 1 degree,, that might mean unlocked.

1173679597_ScreenShot2022-12-05at4_19_10PM.png.b98b0e9098f635d6d36a1fc32a532e9d.png

 

Flight Ops advices Crew cannot takeoff with door down.  (It was the crew that previously suggested it)

340839172_ScreenShot2022-12-05at4_26_10PM.png.ba05d526c1a3a61fb07537966c968715.png

This all takes place before the Reno negotiations...

Later, after Reno negotiation Cooper agrees to stairs full uprite position.. (this indicates locked position)

814756623_ScreenShot2022-12-05at4_22_53PM.png.a049d173dcdafb700342f8097cfc0132.png

 

Fact, Cooper's initial demand was stairs lowered after take-off.

Fact, while Cooper wanted Tina to manipulate the stairs it was the crew that first suggested lowering/locking part way.

It appears Cooper wanted the stairs unlocked, not fully extended for take-off.. but eventually accepted fully up and locked. There may have been some communication error between the crew, ground and Cooper.. Tina was probably the intermediary between Cooper and the crew.

Cooper always wanted Tina/stew to lower the stairs (after take-off).. it is also indicated that he also wanted the stairs unlocked/open/1 degree..

IMO, he wanted them unlocked, not lowered for take-off (the crew suggested that) and the stew to lower after take-off.

Edited by FLYJACK
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The McCoy circus...

Interview with McCoy's son Rick..  3 hours.. Pro tip set to 1.5x speed

Rick genuinely believes McCoy was Cooper, claims a family secret.. he is very emotional.

He believes the parachute Gryder showed was Cooper's.. it wasn't..  

He idolized his father and his grandmother.

Claims jump log books as evidence,,, it isn't.

Gives lots of background on Richard.. believes FBI murdered his father.. probably right.

He reiterates the description of the chute Gryder found matches Cossey's description but has the details wrong.

Haven't heard any evidence.. essentially points to Gryder's vids which we know are flawed.

Claims aunt said Cooper's tie clip was 100% McCoys.. that wasn't what she said in FBI files. She said one similar. Calame and Rhodes lied about it.

Lots of family trouble after Richard's death. Blame, kidnap and abuse.

Conclusion, Rick is genuine, he idolized his father and believes he was Cooper. He has no evidence and points to Gryder's vid and the chute which does not match.. My impression is that he isn't fully aware of the Cooper case evidence and is repeating inaccuracies Gryder told him.. 

McCoy has an amazing story but he wasn't Cooper. Rick had a traumatic childhood and sounds sincere..

 

 

Edited by FLYJACK
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The chute is "actionable" evidence, so why not bring it to the FBI who said they would still review actionable evidence.

Now, the next question is, given the confusion over the chutes, would the FBI even be in a position to accurately determine it's veracity or authenticity ? 

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35 minutes ago, JAGdb said:

The chute is "actionable" evidence, so why not bring it to the FBI who said they would still review actionable evidence.

Now, the next question is, given the confusion over the chutes, would the FBI even be in a position to accurately determine it's veracity or authenticity ? 

The FBI completely screwed up the chutes...

but the container does not match Cossey's wrong description and it does not match Hayden's either..

In Gryder's vid there was a small green canopy attached to it..

If Dan does not turn it in to the FBI that is a tell...

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2 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

The McCoy circus...

Interview with McCoy's son Rick..  3 hours.. Pro tip set to 1.5x speed

Rick genuinely believes McCoy was Cooper, claims a family secret.. he is very emotional.

He believes the parachute Gryder showed was Cooper's.. it wasn't..  

He idolized his father and his grandmother.

Claims jump log books as evidence,,, it isn't.

Gives lots of background on Richard.. believes FBI murdered his father.. probably right.

He reiterates the description of the chute Gryder found matches Cossey's description but has the details wrong.

Haven't heard any evidence.. essentially points to Gryder's vids which we know are flawed.

Claims aunt said Cooper's tie clip was 100% McCoys.. that wasn't what she said in FBI files. She said one similar. Calame and Rhodes lied about it.

Lots of family trouble after Richard's death. Blame, kidnap and abuse.

Conclusion, Rick is genuine, he idolized his father and believes he was Cooper. He has no evidence and points to Gryder's vid and the chute which does not match.. My impression is that he isn't fully aware of the Cooper case evidence and is repeating inaccuracies Gryder told him.. 

McCoy has an amazing story but he wasn't Cooper. Rick had a traumatic childhood and sounds sincere..

I've been waiting for this episode.

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2 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

 

McCoy has an amazing story but he wasn't Cooper.

 

Agreed. McCoy had an interesting life story with a tragic ending. Had he just kept his head down and done his prison time, I think he would have been released early just like the other hijackers who were suffering from PTSD at the time, LaPoint and Heady. 

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2 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

He reiterates the description of the chute Gryder found matches Cossey's description but has the details wrong.

 

1 hour ago, JAGdb said:

given the confusion over the chutes

 

Definitive evidence of the chutes is the existence of the packing cards.

Didn't Cossey's description say that one of his chutes was his bailout rig (that he wore when putting out static line students and not jumping himself) and the other was a sport rig? The sport rig would have the D-rings to attach a front reserve, but it would NOT have a packing card. Sport reserves and pilot emergency rigs are required to be packed by a rigger, and thus have the packing cards. Sport mains do not.

The dummy reserve would not have one. The real reserve, that Cooper opened and cut lines from, would have one. Both of Hayden's rigs would have one. A sport main such as Cossey's, or the one Gryder showed, would not.

So that there were TWO packing cards left with the remaining back rig would indicate that the back rig Cooper used was also a bailout rig (Hayden's) and NOT a sport rig, such as either Cossey's described rig or Gryder's.

The only other possibility would be if that second card was from the real front reserve. But if that one is accounted for, and there were THREE packing cards on the plane, then that eliminates Gryder's rig.

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38 minutes ago, dudeman17 said:

 

 

Definitive evidence of the chutes is the existence of the packing cards.

Didn't Cossey's description say that one of his chutes was his bailout rig (that he wore when putting out static line students and not jumping himself) and the other was a sport rig? The sport rig would have the D-rings to attach a front reserve, but it would NOT have a packing card. Sport reserves and pilot emergency rigs are required to be packed by a rigger, and thus have the packing cards. Sport mains do not.

The dummy reserve would not have one. The real reserve, that Cooper opened and cut lines from, would have one. Both of Hayden's rigs would have one. A sport main such as Cossey's, or the one Gryder showed, would not.

So that there were TWO packing cards left with the remaining back rig would indicate that the back rig Cooper used was also a bailout rig (Hayden's) and NOT a sport rig, such as either Cossey's described rig or Gryder's.

The only other possibility would be if that second card was from the real front reserve. But if that one is accounted for, and there were THREE packing cards on the plane, then that eliminates Gryder's rig.

Cossey said his chute had no D rings, Gryder chute had D rings, Cossey never said the handle was moved left to right that was an error by Carr. He claimed the pull was modified.

Cossey said his chute used by Cooper was sage green nylon container and sage green nylon harness,, Gryder chute is not.

Yes, the card for the good front chute is accounted for..

but the FBI never realized they had the card for the back chute Cooper used.

613609001_ScreenShot2022-12-06at9_54_50AM.png.cc4160e248a330b4ed231b56b885c4b1.png

Edited by FLYJACK

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10 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Yes, the card for the good front chute is accounted for..

Well the bottom line is that if the front chute had it's card, and there were two other cards with the remaining back chute, then that eliminates Gryder's rig, because it would not have one.

 

 

13 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Cossey said his chute had no D rings,, He never said the handle was moved left to right that was an error by Carr. He claimed the pull was modified.

With the totality of things I've read, it sounds like Cossey had a bailout rig that he used when putting out static line students, and not jumping himself. That would not have D-rings. I have confirmed with an instructor/rigger from that era that that was a common practice, as a full sport rig with front reserve would be cumbersome and awkward. It sounds like he may have moved the ripcord handle in order to keep it farther away from a possibly panicked student who might inadvertently grab it. That makes sense. But that would not require some flailing, multi-directional arm movement, like you were doing semaphore or something. As a mechanical device, a ripcord could not be more simple. It's a thin wire cable with pins attached. The pins go through pack closures to hold the container shut. Pulling the ripcord far enough to move the pins, a matter of inches, will open the container. His description to the FBI sounds like Cossey Drama.

It sounds like Cossey originally thought, or later claimed, or whatever, that he sent two back rigs, the above one and a sport rig. The sport rig would have D-rings, and it sounds like that's the one Gryder thinks he's found. But however that worked, the existence to the cards eliminates that.

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