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DB Cooper

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3 minutes ago, CooperNWO305 said:

Gunther was a rich playboy. LeClair was not looking to be his buddy. He was relating to what he wrote. Gunther was a man’s man. He wrote manly articles. Targeted men. That’s why LeClair was attracted to him. Have you read the book? It’s all in there. No way Gunther would have socialized with Cooper or LeClair. Have you read his books or articles? These aren’t targeted at weak men. They are targeted at hunters and fishers and adventurers. 
 

It is quite the coincidence that Gunther’s LeClair was born in Ontario, Canada. Moves to Newark, NJ. Joins the Army. Had a wife who’s birthday is March 2nd. Dan Clair did all of this. Dan Clair/Dan LeClair. To me it is so in your face that it is over the top. Like Dan Clair made the calls knowing he would not get caught because he’s not Cooper, or someone who knew him made the calls knowing Dan could deny being Cooper. No Internet back then. Very hard to cross reference. Why did the FBI chase down every ridiculous lead and not this one? I think it’s because they didn’t like Gunther. 

Why did the FBI chase down every ridiculous lead and not this one? I think it’s because they didn’t like Gunther. 

We dont really know do we ?

Edited by georger

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4 minutes ago, georger said:

Why did the FBI chase down every ridiculous lead and not this one? I think it’s because they didn’t like Gunther. 

We dont really know do we ?

Himmelsbach was clear right up until he died that he didn’t like Gunther. Doug Perry even told me that. So yea, I’m gonna venture that there was FBI bias about Gunther. And competition too. Gunther’s and Himms book out the same time. 
 

 

FD61B4DA-A7BB-4BF9-8F59-242F77913BBC.jpeg

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1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

It may be that Cooper lost the money in the jump and contacted several writer/publishers to sell his story anonymously...  or a hoax..

 

The question then arises, though...if he needed the money that bad, and he didn't get it here, why didn't he keep trying to get it elsewhere? How was he suddenly not in need of money he was willing (first) to potentially kill, die, or go to prison for, and then extort/hoax over? It's sort of the financial version of the "If He Died, Where Is the Missing Person?" game.

I am guessing you took that into account in your 10-year-gap theory and will posit in due time.

I too have wondered if others placed ads. It's possible he gave a different name to each reporter so he could see who followed through. That would also explain the cross-out before "Clara."

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The reason I asked if he'd ever written about it before, is that if so it decouples the first event from the later "Clara" event. The first contact could have been anyone, angling for some gain. And the second could have simply been someone who read whatever was written about the first. It is a crucial data point IMO. It would also be the simplest way to reconcile the difference in goal/approach between the first and second episodes.

Edited by Math of Insects

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4 minutes ago, Slim King said:

If you think Cooper would ever consider selling his story anytime within such a short waiting period you are crazy.  He'd be risking a surefire decade in prison. He would just do it again like McCoy did.

The person claiming to be Cooper was trying to sell his story to several writer/publishers anonymously..

If he and Clara were actually legit they would not give info that could ID them.. 

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8 minutes ago, Slim King said:

Exactly .... And if they couldn't prove who they were no one would believe the story.

That wasn't their motivation... The guy claiming to be Cooper wanted only money from the writers/publishers,, and the "Clara" wanted to publicize that Cooper died and was really a good guy..

The "Cooper" was to provide convincing info but disappeared and never did..

"Clara's" story is tougher as it seems to be a blend of facts and fiction.

They wouldn't need to ID themselves, just providing info only Cooper would know would suffice.

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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In terms of the Village Voice ads. There are not a lot of Happy Birthdays actually in the Village Bulletin Boards for that timeframe. It was a hodgepodge of ads. There was one two weeks later than the Max one wishing Todd a happy birthday from Shelley. Similar look and syntax. If you’re a Dan Clair/William Smith follower, then you could suggest that Todd is one of Dan’s kids. His other kid was named Dan. Dan had lived in Boston and had been in a bad accident (wounded in Vietnam). LeClair had a daughter in Boston who had been in a bad accident. Not sure if Todd knew a Shelley. I also suggest that the crossed out D in the letter was intentional and was for Dolores, Smith’s wife. That’s me though. My input. 
 

The letters Max got would have had stamps on them with DNA. Maybe someone can break through to Max’s family and get hold of those. 

Edited by CooperNWO305

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5 minutes ago, Math of Insects said:

So he was going to have Gunther wish Delores a happy birthday on the actual birthday of his second wife? That feels far-fetched.

My theory has been that William Smith who worked with Dan and whose fathers had worked together was behind the letters. Smith would have known how to type, or his wife. I can see Smith typing the letter and writing the D on purpose just to cross it out. He strikes me as a guy who wanted to tell people he did it, but couldn’t. A guy who wanted to throw clues out there. I have thought that maybe Clair was the one doing it, and had some tidbits about Smith, but it really sounds like Smith and his wife. Smith could have been typing Happy Birthday and typed the D not thinking. Just seems like an odd mistake in an otherwise perfect letter. 
 

You clearly want to discount the book, so I don’t expect you to be interested in the Dan Clair connection and certainly not with Smith. 

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6 minutes ago, Math of Insects said:

So he was going to have Gunther wish Delores a happy birthday on the actual birthday of his second wife? That feels far-fetched.

Here's a list of all the coincidences connecting Gunther's book to William J. Smith. In a vacuum, some of these might not be particularly impressive, but when they're all laid out together like so... well, I start to have a hard time believing we are still dealing with mere coincidences. We could still be, there's no true smoking gun... but I personally find WSJ to be one of the most promising suspects ever proposed and look forward to any future developments...

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24 minutes ago, CooperNWO305 said:

My theory has been that William Smith who worked with Dan and whose fathers had worked together was behind the letters. Smith would have known how to type, or his wife. I can see Smith typing the letter and writing the D on purpose just to cross it out. He strikes me as a guy who wanted to tell people he did it, but couldn’t. A guy who wanted to throw clues out there. I have thought that maybe Clair was the one doing it, and had some tidbits about Smith, but it really sounds like Smith and his wife. Smith could have been typing Happy Birthday and typed the D not thinking. Just seems like an odd mistake in an otherwise perfect letter. 
 

You clearly want to discount the book, so I don’t expect you to be interested in the Dan Clair connection and certainly not with Smith. 

Well, personally I'd love the book to be what Gunther says it is, because in that case it would contain actionable information. I just don't think wanting it to be real is sufficient to proceed as if it is. So far I find it quite easy to explain away most of the Easter eggs in completely mundane ways. 

To clarify (or Clara-fy): One of the "coincidence" items is that LeClair's second wife shared a birthday with the "Clara." But that means the "D" (if that's what it is) is meaningless, yes?--unless he was having someone wish happy birthday to his first wife, on a day that was not her birthday, but would be the actual birthday of his second wife. 

And how would anyone seeing that "D" know it was going to say "Delores" instead of "Denmark" or "Donuts" or "Dogs"?

That feels very, very flimsy. That letter can be real without it containing any evidence at all that Cooper lived and wrote it.
 

Edited by Math of Insects
double-quoted

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6 minutes ago, Math of Insects said:

 

Well, personally I'd love the book to be what Gunther says it is, because in that case it would contain actionable information. I just don't think wanting it to be real is sufficient to proceed as if it is. So far I find it quite easy to explain away most of the Easter eggs in completely mundane ways. 

To clarify (or Clara-fy): One of the "coincidence" items is that LeClair's second wife shared a birthday with the "Clara." But that's meaningless, yes?--unless he was having someone wish happy birthday to his first wife, on a day that was not her birthday, but would be the actual birthday of his second wife. 

That feels very, very flimsy. 
 

Maybe you and I have communicated positively on other sites. But here you talk in circles and try to come across above everyone else, with words like zeitgeist and parsimony and philosophical theories. That is typical of the case where people really have no piece of their own and they want to be part of the case, so they find things to disagree with people about. Your username is new which makes me think it’s a throwaway and you probably have others. I’ll stick with communicating with the regulars on here who don’t have an option to post on other boards. That’s my main reason for being here, to interact with Flyjack and Georger. 
 

To clarify. The letter to Gunther says to wish a happy birthday to Clara on March 2nd. Dan Clair’s wife at the time was born on March 2nd. First wife. Second. Tenth, it doesn’t matter. His current wife’s birthday was the same as the one in the letter. That is quite a coincidence. A letter wishing happy birthday to someone’s wife on the exact day of her real birthday? You don’t find that unusual? Dan Clair’s wife and Dan LeClair’s wife share a birthday  That’s unusual given that he could have chosen 365 other birthdays.

Keep talking in circles.


 

 

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1 hour ago, Coopericane said:

Here's a list of all the coincidences connecting Gunther's book to William J. Smith. In a vacuum, some of these might not be particularly impressive, but when they're all laid out together like so... well, I start to have a hard time believing we are still dealing with mere coincidences. We could still be, there's no true smoking gun... but I personally find WSJ to be one of the most promising suspects ever proposed and look forward to any future developments...

Thanks for posting. I’ve got a Word document that has some others, and just general notes on many of the passages in the book. There was an affair in real life for Dan, but I don’t publicize that much. 

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Here, Cossey was called and asked for two front chutes and two backs,, he didn't know what they were for.. but he arranged for them to be picked up at Issaquah..  

But before they were picked up the backs were obtained from Hayden.. Emrick who was first notified to get all four chutes then only supplied the two fronts..  So, Cossey initially believed all four chutes sent to Cooper were his from Issaquah.. He was called and told which chutes remained in the plane and he gave a description of the chute he believed Cooper used... he was wrong..  he must have figured out id error at some point but never corrected it and lied to cover it up.

They were looking for the wrong chute...

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Edited by FLYJACK

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3 hours ago, CooperNWO305 said:

Thanks for posting. I’ve got a Word document that has some others, and just general notes on many of the passages in the book. There was an affair in real life for Dan, but I don’t publicize that much. 

It's interesting that WSJ's relatives seem to be becoming a little more irritated with his status as a suspect, per the recent edits on that site... I think I get it too, it's not fun to have a loved one accused of a crime you don't think they committed. I'm hopeful they choose to share more information with the public in the future, whether it exonerates WSJ or not.

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9 hours ago, georger said:

Just musing over the overtypes ... anyone decipher it yet after eliminating the 'X' ? Note bad keys on the letter ... the typewriter used would be evidence. Its a D and some other letter overtyped ?

DF3A1762- a.JPG

I hadn't seen the second letter in there, I guess I didn't magnify it enough.  Looks lowercase, looking at the whole letter, I'd guess an o, possibly a u, but the u's in the letter have a mark at the lower right.  It was definitely not a great typewriter, as the letters are jammed sometimes.

 

Georger, I remember looking up Gunther on the DZ way back and seeing your posts. You were the first one I remember who looked at the crossed out letter.  I think you had identified it as a D back then too.

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A lower case "u" seems most logical.  But when you look at the the other lower case "u's" in the that same letter, it starts to lose a little credibility as the right "leg" of the "u" doesn't seem to go completely up to the same level/height as the left "leg" of the "u".  Also, there doesn't seem to be a "tail" or "hook" visible in that "Dx" spot.  

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31 minutes ago, CooperNWO305 said:

I hadn't seen the second letter in there, I guess I didn't magnify it enough.  Looks lowercase, looking at the whole letter, I'd guess an o, possibly a u, but the u's in the letter have a mark at the lower right.  It was definitely not a great typewriter, as the letters are jammed sometimes.

 

Georger, I remember looking up Gunther on the DZ way back and seeing your posts. You were the first one I remember who looked at the crossed out letter.  I think you had identified it as a D back then too.

It is an "o" with a missing top... the "u" doesn't fit but the small "o" does..

 

1243526580_ScreenShot2022-10-11at7_10_26AM.png.4f83b4f71445aba7af979c6cf1536958.png

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31 minutes ago, JAGdb said:

Interesting, just playing this hypothetical out, Do as in Dolores ?  Does that explain why the "o" or whatever the letter is, is offset to the right a little ? i.e. it's the 2nd letter of a word following the first letter D ?

Or perhaps he typed an "x" and an "o" to correct/hide the "D"

 

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12 hours ago, Coopericane said:

It's interesting that WSJ's relatives seem to be becoming a little more irritated with his status as a suspect, per the recent edits on that site... I think I get it too, it's not fun to have a loved one accused of a crime you don't think they committed. I'm hopeful they choose to share more information with the public in the future, whether it exonerates WSJ or not.

Smith is definitely an odd character, eccentric may be the word.  He had his two daughters later in life, they were born in 1965 and 1967, he was 37 and 39, many years after he got married.  Definitely late for the period.  I have my theories on that.

As for the family.  I've heard people try to draw conclusions on suspects based on how their family reacts.  Family thinks he's Cooper, therefore he isn't. Family stays quiet, therefore they are hiding something. Etc. Etc.  Anyhow, my belief is that if he was Cooper, then his daughters may not have even known.  They certainly do know now.

I think if a family truly knows their loved one is Cooper, then they will be hesitant to come forward. There is just too much to lose at this point.  Maybe in a few years when all the players have passed on, but for now I can see any family involved may want to keep quiet. Not to say that is the only approach, just my opinion.  True, Cooper is dead and can't be tried, but in today's society, there could be any number of lawsuits and IRS or other government investigations.  A family that was moving along normally for many years could now find themselves in the news, explaining to neighbors that their father or grandfather was DB Cooper, being hassled, asked about the money, being sued by Tina or Flo, etc. Even if the cases are thrown out, a family would still need a lawyer.  We have some solid folks who are lawyers and involved with the DB Cooper case, but all it takes is one shyster or ambulance chaser and DB Cooper's family could be in for some serious inconvenience.

I suspect we will have more luck with DB Cooper's grandkids, or even great grandkids, than with his children.

The offer always stands from me, if anyone ever wants to follow the Smith line further, please do. I'll help all I can.  That includes talking to the family.  I'm not in contact with them anymore, but someone more persuasive than me might be able to get an in, even if it is someone who wants to prove Smith is not Cooper.

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