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DB Cooper

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17 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

Why is my name attached to the post above. I've never made that statement. is this a quote from Derek? 

Yeah, Derek made another ID and posted something stupid. Not sure how your name was attached. His post apparently got deleted, did what I could to delete mine.

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3 hours ago, dudeman17 said:

A quick search indicates that 'Ha Ha Ha' was written in '83. Like I said, I read that book in probably the late 90's, but I couldn't say when it was written. Mr. Blevins says he read Ha Ha Ha and thought that it wasn't the author's first work. I'd be curious if they were possibly written by the same guy. I'd also be curious if you or Mr. Blevins figured the seven clues supposedly contained in Ha Ha Ha.

My suspect was a self proclaimed writer.  He published his autobiography in 1972, but nothing else.  He was known to use alias names, and I suspect he has other works done under pseudonyms.  He was also locked up in the early 80's so had some time on his hands to do some writing.  

I have an interesting theory on the 7 clues, and I hope anyone interested in the subject takes me seriously.  Cooper was also the Zodiac killer, and if he really wrote Ha Ha Ha and encoded a location to find some money, I would send in the bomb squad before searching it alone, because it is probably a death trap.

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(edited)
9 hours ago, EVickiW said:

It is...Under a different screen name. 

He used my name as well. Whatever...eventually the admin will handle him. 

On another note, I saw a pretty good question pop up. HOW do we know...someone asked....if the book 'Ha Ha Ha' is fiction? Good question. Some points below:

  • The man who did all the artwork is credited to Greg Ellingson, a REAL person. Ellingson is a known artist in the Portland area, (Google Greg Ellingson artist, or you'll get the hockey player instead) with many years of experience and art for sale today. Looking at his picture at Linkedin, he must have been pretty young and just starting out when he did the art for the book. However, there are several ways to contact him on the internet. You could ask him the author's name. 
  • The publisher, 'Signum Books Ltd,' should not be confused with 'Signum Books,' a division of Flashpoint Media founded in 2010. 'Signum Books Ltd.' (was) a small press based out of Jefferson, Oregon a very small town south of Salem. In 1983, to privately publish such a book, you would have to do it the old fashioned way using an actual book press, and that couldn't be done as quickly and easily as today. 
  • The book was undoubtably sub-contracted out as a print job, and copies were delivered in boxes. Since Signum Ltd was either a single person and that was their business name, or a very small company, you would have to contract out the printing somewhere. This was probably done in Portland, because the actual PRINTING of the book is credited to the Portland Journal of Commerce. The PJC has been around for well over a hundred years, but they don't print books on their own. However, they DO put businesses together for sub contracting jobs and they end up being credited as the printer. The reality is that the book was printed privately under contract, probably several thousand copies at least, and the publisher listed the PJC as the actual printer. This could have been done to avoid certain questions later. 
  • Dona Elliott, the late, great owner-operator of the Ariel General Store and Tavern, had steady access to more copies of the book whenever she wished, and claimed she knew the identity of the author. (Via my interview with her in 2012 in the morning prior to that year's Cooper Party) She was selling them for six dollars a copy at the same time they were going for well over a hundred bucks each at Amazon. Only one known library carries the book, according to WorldCat, and that is the Washington State University library. I bought six copies from Elliott and several more later. Wherever she was obtaining the copies, she had a steady source. This boosts her claim that she knew the author, and additionally, she said that although he WASN'T Cooper, that he was a Northwest native and local to the Portland area. 
  • Several people worked on Ha Ha Ha, but some of the names are phony. 'Judi Van Cleave' and 'Debra' could be pseudonyms. Greg Ellingson, the artist, is real. Much of his work you can see on the internet today resembles the work he did for Ha Ha Ha. If you really wanted to know the name of the author for real, he is probably your best bet to find out. Personally, I haven't tried. 
  • I have edited books or done cover creation on about sixty different titles since 2003, mostly for outside authors on contract. After examining Ha Ha Ha closely, I have a few opinions. First, it's a pro job all the way, especially on the editing. Back in 1983, word processing was in its infancy. Books were edited mostly by making corrections on a typewriter and then later set up for an actual printing press. It has an embossed cover, which is unusual for a privately-printed book. Someone paid a little bit extra to do that. The one-piece wraparound cover is a solid job and not done by an amateur. There is no problem with the bleed area and all the images on the cover and used in the interior are dead-center. The text editing is spot on. (They could have left an additional 1/4" space for the inside margin, but they probably placed it a bit tight to save page count, since private book printing costs are usually based on the number of pages you want printed in your book.)
  • Assessment:  Ha Ha Ha was a book created by pros who knew what they were doing, and had worked in the business somehow, somewhere, for years. The people involved in this book were not amateurs to the book and/or publishing business. 
  • About The Author:  Whoever he was, I don't think Ha Ha Ha was his first book. The writing flows well, he knows how to use the Chicago Manual of Style, his dialogue is crisp, and he does paragraph breaks at the right times and places. This guy, in my opinion....was writing either freelance or semi-pro PRIOR to the writing of Ha Ha Ha. The signs are all over the book. It wasn't his first bit of writing, and he's good. 
  • Why The Book Lost Money:  Although (in my opinion) this was a book created by professionals, it also required a large investment in order to get it printed privately. This probably left little for marketing, and the one thing no one considered was that the author wasn't going to be doing any book tours or appearances, because he alleges several illegal acts in the book, and claims it is fact. At his first appearance, he would have to admit the book was a total work of fiction, and this limited marketing greatly. As a result, it sold few copies, was never picked up by distributors or bookstores, and was a sales failure. Today, it is a cult classic. 
  • More Recently:  The book is now being offered at Amazon by Dianne Dalbey at forty dollars a copy. Dalbey somehow obtained multiple copies of the book and *allegedly* was interviewed by Cooper researcher Bruce Smith. You would have to ask him about all that, but Dalbey somehow managed to obtain copies from a source OTHER than Amazon, since the book at Amazon (before Dalbey came along) typically sold for about $170 a copy. 
Edited by RobertMBlevins
Minor historical corrections.

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(edited)

I found that the wind direction used by the FBI LZ was a proxy derived from Portland and Salem data averaged between 8-9 PM. 

The winds were virtually the same direction from surface to elevation but increased in speed. However, the data from Portland and Seattle shows that the direction was not constant, it was shifting between ESE to S to SSW... In other words the FBI guessed at the wind direction for the LZ.

The Placard was found virtually right under the flightpath, that suggests a wind from the S which is consistent with winds measured at 8 PM at Toledo Wa... The Placard found much later suggests the FBI got the wind direction wrong.

 

A question..  If Cooper jumped back first facing into a S wind of 25 knots at elevation and 5 knots at ground how far would he drift from the exit point?? I assume he would travel forward briefly then drift back basically along the flightpath.. any ideas?

 

 

cooperwindtravel.jpeg.f02055ce3a01873fe04ce18d80ebc9d1.jpeg

 

cooperwindwrong.jpeg.01e9e6002533dd6b32fcbf472a67d81b.jpeg

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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(edited)

Comments on the Daily DB Cooper Bite:
 

Quote

'Tie is a treasure trove of evidence...'

Only if you can establish ownership and a chain of evidence on it. Without knowing where Cooper got it, (owned personally, borrowed, or picked up for a dime at a thrift store) it hasn't been connected to a single suspect. 

Quote

"He left it on board accidentally..." (paraphrased) 

Assumes fact not in evidence. Cooper was pretty careful on retrieving evidence, right down to the matchbook. The other evidence certainly went out the back of the jet. It is also possible Cooper left it on board purposely, knowing that the tie couldn't be traced to him. 

Quote

"Bought between 63-64.."

Probably correct. Penney's representative said that style (width) of tie had been out of style for years. And they ordered them scores at a time for each store. 

Since it's been impossible to determine a chain of evidence on the tie, it's been pretty useless as evidence. 

The DNA sample held by the FBI, if compared to a possible suspect's full DNA profile, can eliminate a suspect, but it cannot confirm that suspect as the hijacker. This is because it is a partial sample only. (Source:  Seattle FBI agent Fred Gutt, email/phone call.)

If Sheridan Peterson, a guy who was previously investigated and dismissed by the FBI, is once again going back on the suspect list, then you should see the Seven Reasons Why I Believe He Isn't Cooper. The old guy, since he really can't speak for himself anymore, gets equal time. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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Sheridan Peterson was never dismissed by the FBI. He has continued to be a suspect since within one week of the skyjacking.

It's important to note that the only agents from the FBI to interview Sheridan were Mary Jean Fryar and her junior partner. In fact, Mary Jean interviewed him twice in 2003 and wrote the 302 related to Sheridan's interviews with them. Put another way, she is the eyes and ears of the FBI as it relates to Sheridan. Everything the FBI knows or thinks about Sheridan as a suspect comes from her, plus the results of the DNA comparison.

I have talked with Mary Jean several times and I can say with certainty she is not at all convinced that Sheridan was not DB Cooper. In fact, she is highly suspicious of Sheridan. Moreover, Sheridan himself stated that Mary Jean told him that they think he is DB Cooper when they approached him in 2003.

That said, meeting a certain legal threshold and proving Sheridan was DB Cooper is an entirely separate matter.

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There was CP TI on the 727.. water system, lav and ducting. It is possible some of those particles were picked up on the plane. 

The Elvis Yttrium TV analogy is silly, there was no glass shards on the tie.. finding Yttrium on a tie is rare, especially in the context of all the other particles.

Virtually all those particles are used in dentistry and electronics. They suggest ceramics or coatings.. missiles and radomes. (Many are found in hand held sparkler paste)

The tie was at least 6 years old. Probably left by Cooper and was likely exposed to multiple environments.

DNA can exclude but not include. Nuclear DNA can ID a person, Mitochondrial can narrow it down to 10-20% of population. Anyone matching the Cooper tie DNA is still in a population too large.. to matter.  However, new DNA tech could probably get a better sample from the tie or parachute cords.

 

None of the tie evidence points to Boeing. 

 

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I am in my 51st year of skydiving, still active. Jumped at many CA DZs including Taft,  Elsinore, Livermore, Antioch, Tracy, Pope Valley,  Byron etc. Quincy and Rantoul IL too.  So many good memories. I too had heard a rumor that DB Cooper  jumped at Taft but no details at all. 

 

377

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(edited)

WolfRiverJoe wrote: "Oh yeah. I forgot all about the 'squidding' idea. One of the dynamics of round openings that is being lost to time (at least for sport jumpers) because we don't jump them anymore."

Initially, I also thought that an immediate deployment off the off the stairs of the 727 at roughly 200 mph could prove fatal. Some early head down skydivers suffered fatal coronary artery dissections from huge G forces generated by accidental canopy openings at speeds well above terminal velocity. 

When I was searching for info on 727 jumps in SE Asia I connected with Dr. Joe Leker at U of Texas who is an expert on the history of covert air ops in SE Asia. He sent me a video of 727 S/L jumps which is now on YouTube included in an Air Americal documentary you can see here: (start at 1:07:56).

I was quite surprised to see how gentle the deployments were. The "squidding" unique to round canopies, provided a very slow opening. 

377

Edited by 377

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I read the "this piece of evidence is worthless because you can't prove X" a lot. For those who embrace that line of thought, good luck. What is ever proved before it's proved?

An example is the tie. It is foolish to suggest that evidence from the tie is of little or no value until one can prove that he didn't buy it at a thrift store.

The tie was owned by Cooper. It was found on his seat. Witnesses saw him wearing a skinny black tie. That should settle the matter.

The Goodwill argument is also ridiculous. First off, what is the likelihood that the tie was purchased second hand? Then , if this is the case, what is the likelihood that it was purchased second hand recently enough where particles on the tie were from the previous owner and not Cooper? Next, what is the likelihood that the commercially pure titanium, high-grade stainless steel and rare earth elements common to the aerospace industry happened to find their way to the tie from the previous owner and not DB Cooper considering Cooper's unique knowledge of the 727?

You see my point? The odds are overwhelming. Yet apparently they're still not overwhelming enough for some to consider. Again, good luck with your investigation.

The secret bank account info...came from Sheridan himself.

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On 4/15/2019 at 8:15 PM, dudeman17 said:

 I've also heard that the FBI holds out hope that someone will remember something, present a new suspect or evidence. Some people have done that, come forward saying 'I think it was my uncle/dad's friend/husband...' That leads me to wonder. If you thought someone you knew/cared about might be a notorious criminal, would you come forward? Risk getting someone in trouble? Or would you keep your mouth shut? I suppose if they've passed and are beyond prosecution you might want to know if the truth could be determined. But would you want to sully their name? Perhaps you'd be lionizing them as a folk hero?  Hmmm.....

............................

427299920_DadsTypewriter.jpg.44d2c5115fd78580b069f5304602189b.jpg

I have come forward and asked the FBI to consider looking into our father, Melvin Wilson. Not for the fame. My brother and I just want to know why he vanished off the face of the earth. 

45 years ago today, my brother and I used the typewriter in my mom's room. We were told the typewriter belonged to our father. This is what we wrote.  Sometimes these two little kids that wrote this letter are still in our hearts and heads. We still continue to wonder where he went. This is why we came forward.

IMAG0830-1.jpg

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(edited)
9 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

A question..  If Cooper jumped back first facing into a S wind of 25 knots at elevation and 5 knots at ground how far would he drift from the exit point??

There are a lot of variables that would affect the answer to that question. In freefall, a 25 knot wind would cause some drift, but not a whole lot. I'm not sure the specifics of the canopy he had, but generally a bailout rig of that era, a round (was it modified/unmodified, drive slots, 4-line release?), might have 3-6 mph of performance to work with. The main question would be, at what altitude did he open the parachute? If he jumped at 10 grand and opened right away, he could indeed drift a fair distance. If he freefell down and opened lower, say 2 grand (agl) or so, it would be much less. Also, especially if he opened high, what are the winds doing at other altitudes? It seems to be known what they were doing at 10 and on the ground, but what were they doing at 7? At 4?...

Edited by dudeman17

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That video 377 posted showing the static-line jumps from a 727 was interesting. You can see as they get inflation behind the plane that they do get a pretty fair yank on opening shock. The thing that got me was, look at the bag/pod as it comes out of the container, how it gets blown up into the top of the stair channel, and the canopy slides out of it. I'm sure they smoothed that all out to eliminate snag points, but geez, I might've tested the static lines a bit longer.

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2 hours ago, dudeman17 said:

There are a lot of variables that would affect the answer to that question. In freefall, a 25 knot wind would cause some drift, but not a whole lot. I'm not sure the specifics of the canopy he had, but generally a bailout rig of that era, a round (was it modified/unmodified, drive slots, 4-line release?), might have 3-6 mph of performance to work with. The main question would be, at what altitude did he open the parachute? If he jumped at 10 grand and opened right away, he could indeed drift a fair distance. If he freefell down and opened lower, say 2 grand (agl) or so, it would be much less.

Yeah, lots of variables.. the FBI guessed at the wind direction.

Assume "Cooper" leaves plane at point A, plane travelling at 190 mph, 10,000 ft, travelling S into S wind 25 mph at elevation and 5 mph ground. What is the estimated LZ range from point A.. given an early pull and late pull.. example: 2-5 miles from point A?

this was the parachute..

https://themountainnewswa.net/2011/10/25/db-cooper-case-heats-up-again-with-controversy-over-parachutes/

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(edited)

Vicky says in part:

Quote

 

"I have come forward and asked the FBI to consider looking into our father, Melvin Wilson. Not for the fame. My brother and I just want to know why he vanished off the face of the earth. 

45 years ago today, my brother and I used the typewriter in my mom's room. We were told the typewriter belonged to our father. This is what we wrote.  Sometimes these two little kids that wrote this letter are still in our hearts and heads. We still continue to wonder where he went. This is why we came forward."

 

 

And I believe you. 

It's harder than people believe to COMPLETELY vanish from the face of the earth, especially in a purposeful manner. (Not counting plane crashes in the wilderness or falling off a ship, etc.)

One set of people that would probably know what happened to him is any of his relatives, the ones from HIS side of the family. It's hard to go the rest of your life without contacting someone from your side of the family. He might be able to avoid your mother's side, and probably would, but if anyone knows anything, it would come from his side somewhere. 

Regarding Sheridan as the hijacker, I gave a lot of reasons why he probably isn't the guy. Seven of them, yes. But the truth is you only need one:

An expert skydiver like Sheridan Peterson, even in his wildest dreams, would NEVER come to the party dressed in a suit with a pair of loafers. No way. One thing about him is that after so many successful jumps there is no way he's coming all the way from Tibet to hijack a plane dressed like that. Sheridan would have...at the very LEAST...worn a pair of boots. And when you read about his life, which is pretty much an open book, it shows a guy with morals and much character. A peacenik. A guy marching for civil rights. A teacher who wrote a 700+page anti Vietnam war book. A guy to whom it would not even occur to threaten peoples' lives for money. You can call that an opinion, but Sheridan's life has shown all of the above to be true. In exchange for a life like that, he gets his book stolen with lies, and is accused of being a criminal. It is beyond unfair. It is UNJUST. 

sheridan-peterson-parachutist.jpg

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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(edited)

Food For Thought: 

Several good sources have alleged that Cooper said he knew the location of the portable O2 bottles on board Flight 305. 

Do YOU know where they keep the emergency O2 bottles on Delta, Alaska, or even Cathay Airlines? (You should see their First Class accommodations.) I sure don't. I did some discrete checking on this and discovered it depends on the airline, and that not even frequent flyers had a clue. 

How did Cooper know? 

scratchheademoji.jpg

Edited by RobertMBlevins
Went with smaller picture with caption

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(edited)

The FBI flightpath does veer East around 20:12 and turns right around 20:15.. that eliminates an alternate western flightpath.

FBI FILE 10 P 1662 

_______ WAS INFORMED BY ___________ PORTLAND AIRPORT, THAT TWO CHASE WHICH PLANES FOLLOWING FIVE MILES BEHIND HIJACKED AIRCRAFT SUDDENLY VEERED TO THE EAST AND THEREAFTER MADE A RIGHT TURN. THE POINT OF THEIR CHANGE OF COURSE WOULD HAVE BEEN IN CLOSE PROXIMITY IN TIME AND LOCATION TO THAT BELIEVED WHERE UNSUB DEPARTED THE PLANE.

 

The Elvis flightpath has left the building…

DB-Cooper-Loot-Map1.jpg.1a7a9b484ff88e990a8e64f673710e8e.jpg

 

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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